Tools from the old world

[Pexto]

wondering why does it have CE (china export) stamped on it.

CE stands for "conformité européenne" (French for "European Conformity"). It is a European thing and has nothing to do with China, although some Chinese products may be CE compliant.

You can read up on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking.

 

[silkman]

CE mark means nothing, the chinese will stamp everything with it.

 

[F-22]

Does make import easier to EU. I recently ordered a centerless grinder for our factory here in Europe, and I ordered straight from the Chinese manufacturer for an absurdly low price! 6500€ including freight and taxes for the machine, 12k€ with the appropriate tooling. The Indians would charge near 20k for something similar, and a Cincinnati is about 60k, while Germans stopped making such small centerless machines and the Japanese wanted 350k for a fully automated line which... we don't need. The Chinese were so cheap we just ordered it to see what comes over, otherwise the Cincinnati seems like the best reliable option - our current machines are old Cincinnati centerless grinders from 1947.

Anyway, that machine had no CE marking. However the manufacturer did have the CE certification for a "tube polisher" machine. Ingeniuous as they are, they offered to just swap the "type plate" of the tube polisher onto the centerless grinder to avoid issues with customs.

I don't really care much, it's just a simple industrial machine. But it is an issue for consumer products where they probably cheat just as much!

 

[Jack_K]

Does anyone know if these Wurth ball joint separators are made by Hazet? They are actually a bit cheaper which is unusual for Wurth.
I haven't measured what I need yet but I am looking for options of non chinese ball joint separators. Hazet were the only ones I found.

 

[Tactile]

Have a look here Jack_1...it's for AU cars but might do the job?

 

[Jack_K]

Have a look here Jack_1...it's for AU cars but might do the job?

That won't do. I just need to separate ones with a taper like tie rod ends. I had one of this style but it recently broke, it never fit what I use it on properly.

 

[dutchgray]

CE mark means nothing, the chinese will stamp everything with it.

Unfortunately true.

Your OK if the product is made in Europe though.

 

[Monte]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nice color selection

Black, red, gold would be better

My favorite grocery store in Europe and US.

What was the Eur price for this?

regular 7,99 €. Close out sale price was 6.- €




Alpen spot weld drill bit

 

[Reed Prince]

I must admit I like Facom “Borneo” drivers for these combination screws. They offer slotted / Phillips or slotted / Pozidriv.

My Borneo drivers arrived today. Very nice. Their handles are more like the Wiha or standard Felo than the Felo E-Slim.

 

[Dgb]

Does anyone know if these Wurth ball joint separators are made by Hazet? They are actually a bit cheaper which is unusual for Wurth.
I haven't measured what I need yet but I am looking for options of non chinese ball joint separators. Hazet were the only ones I found.

In all probability likely made by Kukko who probably make them for Hazet/Gedore in the first place.
Others more knowledgable than I may be able to confirm or correct me on this.

 

[lok]

In all probability likely made by Kukko who probably make them for Hazet/Gedore in the first place.
Others more knowledgable than I may be able to confirm or correct me on this.

I think are made by Buco, part of the gedore group.

 

[Monte]

Scantool sheet metal shear
www.scantool.dk

 

[F-22]

Recently ordered these, mainly to compare to my Knipex ones.




The good: The teeth profile seems very interesting and serious. They look and feel much more "substantial" in the hand. They copied the Knipex mechanism but inverted it, and it is also more beefy due to that choice.

The bad: Knipex seems slimmer but I doubt it is any weaker. Phospate finish on VBW seems much worse, it scratches easily and gets rubbed off by hand. The mechanism is not as well thought out - on the knipex, pushing on the button fully allows you to change position, but on these the "mushroom" starts sliding so pushing fully kind of adds friction to adjusting it so you balance the button just to before it bottoms out. Button spring is weaker which gives a more flimsy feel to the button compared to the "clack" a knipex does when it engages. Honestly my Unior pliers in this style seem the smoothest as far as adjustment goes (and a nice big button on those). Interesting thing sbout thr Knipex design - the spring is very well thought out so it also pushes one side of the pliers into the other, minimizing any slack you feel. On both these VBW and the Unior pliers I own in this style, there is noticeably more sideways slack, the knipex hinge is just much more rigid feeling.



Also kind if poor forging quality which surprised me. Smooshed letters on one side (or maybe ground off too much on this side?).



Overall still feels like a premium and well made tool and I'm happy with them. But Knipex design seems to go into greater details.


Also needed an extra 24mm wrench and decided to try out the extra long Gedore. Nice German style wrench for sure. Still, maybe I am a bit spoiled by the Facom/USAG offerings. Sadly they don't sell the new XL pattern (a la Mac RBRT) in 24mm size (for some reason, those only seem to be available under the overpriced Mac branding, up to 32mm in size, and Sidchrome which is hard to get here).

 

[Dave455]

Recently ordered these, mainly to compare to my Knipex ones.




The good: The teeth profile seems very interesting and serious. They look and feel much more "substantial" in the hand. They copied the Knipex mechanism but inverted it, and it is also more beefy due to that choice.

The bad: Knipex seems slimmer but I doubt it is any weaker. Phospate finish on VBW seems much worse, it scratches easily and gets rubbed off by hand. The mechanism is not as well thought out - on the knipex, pushing on the button fully allows you to change position, but on these the "mushroom" starts sliding so pushing fully kind of adds friction to adjusting it so you balance the button just to before it bottoms out. Button spring is weaker which gives a more flimsy feel to the button compared to the "clack" a knipex does when it engages. Honestly my Unior pliers in this style seem the smoothest as far as adjustment goes (and a nice big button on those). Interesting thing sbout thr Knipex design - the spring is very well thought out so it also pushes one side of the pliers into the other, minimizing any slack you feel. On both these VBW and the Unior pliers I own in this style, there is noticeably more sideways slack, the knipex hinge is just much more rigid feeling.



Also kind if poor forging quality which surprised me. Smooshed letters on one side (or maybe ground off too much on this side?).



Overall still feels like a premium and well made tool and I'm happy with them. But Knipex design seems to go into greater details.


Also needed an extra 24mm wrench and decided to try out the extra long Gedore. Nice German style wrench for sure. Still, maybe I am a bit spoiled by the Facom/USAG offerings. Sadly they don't sell the new XL pattern (a la Mac RBRT) in 24mm size (for some reason, those only seem to be available under the overpriced Mac branding, up to 32mm in size, and Sidchrome which is hard to get here).

Sadly, the Facom 440XL (or the similar USAG) are still only available in limited sizes.

Facom offer their more conventional long series wrench (40L) up to some quite big sizes, and these are all very nice wrenches.


Where Gedore are concerned I must admit I prefer the 7XL. The finish is a lot nicer and I prefer the style of the offset.

 

[Tactile]

Also needed an extra 24mm wrench and decided to try out the extra long Gedore. Nice German style wrench for sure. Still, maybe I am a bit spoiled by the Facom/USAG offerings. Sadly they don't sell the new XL pattern (a la Mac RBRT) in 24mm size (for some reason, those only seem to be available under the overpriced Mac branding, up to 32mm in size, and Sidchrome which is hard to get here).

Where are you located? Let me know if you ever want a Sidchrome sent out...I could look into the shipping side of things.

 

[Biketools23]

First post on this very informative forum.
By way of introduction...new long series Hazets vs 45 year old standard versions for scale. Plus an old Made In USA Craftsman

 

[CGarage]

Some S-A-M France goodness…..

 

[Dave455]

Some S-A-M France goodness…..

Those open enders are lovely!

I can forsee a SAM order in my future…!

 

[acer66]

Not as fancy as all the new stuff here but I found this during a job site during a cabinet tear down and some light sanding revealed the only markings on it.

 

[CGarage]

Famex Germany locksmith’s hammer

Stubai Germany engineer’s hammer


ETA: Had to get some German stuff up for Monte

 

[CGarage]

Purchased about 12-14 years ago in France and never got around to using them. Just uncovered during my warehouse storage sorting.



Maybe time for an unboxing!

 

[neophyte]

Not as fancy as all the new stuff here but I found this during a job site during a cabinet tear down and some light sanding revealed the only markings on it.

I have no clue who manufactured these, but Garrett Wade, a woodworking store out of New York City, used to sell the clamps, maybe by the half dozen.

 

[CGarage]

Those open enders are lovely!

I can forsee a SAM order in my future…!

The soft face and engineer’s hammers with cushioned handles are quite lovely, too!

S-A-M is missing out not selling in the U.S. and U.K. ! ! !

 

[Dave455]

The soft face and engineer’s hammers with cushioned handles are quite lovely, too!

S-A-M is missing out not selling in the U.S. and U.K. ! ! !

The soft face hammers are made in the U.K. by Thorex, so availability is pretty good (although the red dead blows are exclusive to SAM I think).

The cushioned hammers are instantly recognisable as French patterns, although Facom call this exact pattern a “Joiners” hammer - their similar “Engineers” hammer is subtly different.

Either way, the square heads have their uses, particularly if you have to pin or rivet something in a corner, or (more usually) knock a dent out of a corner.

 

[Pexto]

Famex Germany locksmith’s hammer

Stubai Germany engineer’s hammer


ETA: Had to get some German stuff up for Monte

Hold on justasec. Stubai Germany? If there's something labeled Stubai that's not made in Austria I'm going to be very disillusioned. Please say it isn't so!

 

[CGarage]

Hold on justasec. Stubai Germany? If there's something labeled Stubai that's not made in Austria I'm going to be very disillusioned. Please say it isn't so!

I am almost sure all the Stubai hammers are made in Germany and the hickory handles are made in Austria, but not marked.

I love Stubai, but all I have ever seen out of Austria from Stubai as far as production manufacturing was drill bits / cutting tools. And very nice ones at that.

I am not surprised by this, though. A locksmith’s hammer was cool, and it is small and handy.

ETA: There are two hammers that Stubai makes that are marked “Austria”, unfortunately, this is not one of them. :-/

 

[Pexto]

I am almost sure all the Stubai hammers are made in Germany and the hickory handles are made in Austria, but not marked.

I love Stubai, but all I have ever seen out of Austria from Stubai as far as production manufacturing was drill bits / cutting tools. And very nice ones at that.

I am not surprised by this, though. A locksmith’s hammer was cool, and it is small and handy.

You might well be right. The only reason I know anything about Stubai is because they make climbing gear, and I used to do a bit of that, I too have a Stubai hammer, but it's a piton hammer, and quite old (1950s?), and was made in Fulpmes, Austria. I don't know where their tools are made today, although at least some are still made in Austria.

Stubai has an interesting history; the company was formed in 1897 from a blacksmith's cooperative in the small village of Fulpmes. I have an old pair of crampons that was forged in Fulpmes around 1920 by a blacksmith who became part of Stubai later on. The company is still headquartered there. And apparently it is still a cooperative of some sort, with 24 member companies. I have no idea how this works in practice. There is a factory in Fulpmes with 135 employees (according to the catalog linked below), so they are definitely producing at least some tools in Austria.

They produce a wide variety of tools; climbing gear, forestry tools, mechanic's tools, etc. You need a slater's hammer? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stubai-275501-Slaters-Hammer-Silver/dp/B0001JZYL0/?tag=atomicindustr-21

You can see their 400-page catalog here: https://www.stubai.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/STUBAI-Gesamtkatalog.pdf.
Note that it took me about ten tries to download this successfully - be patient!

Edited to add:
This listing for a Stubai hatchet says it's made in Austria, from Austrian steel, and further claims that "Stubai Tool industry is the biggest hand tool manufacturer in Austria." FWIW.

 

[CGarage]

Stubai is indeed the largest tool producer in Austria (Austria is a small country) and OEM for a few other manufacturers (like Gedore). I think their real claim to fame was the drill bits and cutting tools / wood bits that have always been good and nice quality. There are a few Austrian cutting tool manufacturers.

 

[Pexto]

Stubai is indeed the largest tool producer in Austria (Austria is a small country) and OEM for a few other manufacturers (like Gedore). I think their real claim to fame was the drill bits and cutting tools / wood bits that have always been good and nice quality. There are a few Austrian cutting tool manufacturers.

I'll try to dig out my Stubai climbing gear and take a pic in the morning (10 hours away from Austria here in AK).

One interesting historical sidenote here is the role of the Marshall plan in re-establishing heavy industry in Austria following WWII. Prior to WWII, most Austrian heavy industry was located in the east. After the war, Austria was divided into British, French, American, and Soviet zones, similar to Germany. Wien (Vienna) was similarly divided, like Berlin.

In the Soviet zone (eastern Austria), the Soviets dismantled factories (and appropriated agricultural production) and shipped them east; I suppose it could be called forced reparations. Meanwhile, under the Marshall Plan, substantial investments were made in creating industrial capacity in western Austria. This was because the USA and Britain viewed Austria as a crucial strategic bulwark in resisting possible Soviet expansion. In the end, Austria was occupied by the Allies until 1955, fully ten years after the end of the war. And because of Soviet removals of industrial infrastructure in their zone, and Marshall Plan investment in western Austria, the traditional locus of Austrian heavy industry shifted dramatically from east to west.

I don't know if Stubai in particular benefited from Marshall Plan investment; it would be interesting to look into that,

 

[Monte]

Famex Germany locksmith’s hammer

Stubai Germany engineer’s hammer


ETA: Had to get some German stuff up for Monte

Thanks
btw. is there someting stamped into the hammer head ? Where the handle enters e.g..... ?

Purchased about 12-14 years ago in France and never got around to using them. Just uncovered during my warehouse storage sorting.



Maybe time for an unboxing!

Cool stuff !!!! A unboxing video would be nice






Finally "upgraded" to the current style. The old one will be transferred to the welding tools drawer...

 

[Pexto]

Here are the Stubai-related items I mentioned last night. An ice axe, a pair of crampons, and a piton hammer. You'll note an extra piton hammer; that one is unmarked but was most likely made in Japan.



The ice axe is labeled "Original Aschenbrenner", along with "Made in Austria" and "Stubai". I'm not sure when this was made. Peter Aschenbrenner was an Austrian mountaineer who designed this style of axe and had them made by the Stubai cooperative, starting in the 1930s and continuing for perhaps 30 years.


The piton hammer is unmarked, other than a logo which consists of a crown with the letters "WG". I can't find the reference now, but a few years ago when I researched this I found that the WG crown logo was used by the Stubai cooperative before they started using the "STUBAI" logo. This is all rather uncertain - for example several references state that the Stubai logo started being used in 1960 - however there are quite a few German Army items from WWII that are marked "STUBAI".



The crampons are marked "F. Ralling Hammerwerk Fulpmes". Felix Ralling was a blacksmith in Fulpmes, and his shop was one of those in the Stubai cooperative. The crampons are also marked "Eckenstein"; Oscar Eckenstein was the climber who developed this style of crampon. I believe these crampons date from the 1920s, perhaps the 1930s.

 

[CGarage]

Thanks
btw. is there someting stamped into the hammer head ? Where the handle enters e.g..... ?

Cool stuff !!!!

Nothing stamped into the hammer head or handle…..I have a “Swiss” gunsmith hammer that looks to be from the same maker. Handle is marked Swiss with Swiss crest but I heard the head was German. I think they do this to exploit rule of Origin, like the Austrians. And there is plenty of wood handle industry in Swiss and Austria. Not as much for metallurgy and forging.

Might need to do an unboxing of some of these!

 

[Howe]

Hello there again,
first of all I apologize if I put this comment in this thread, I don't know where should I post it and also if you think this is a silly question

Have you watch this video?

In that video, Proto and Cornwell got 1st and 2nd rank while Hazet finish on 3rd at the torque strengh test. Well, in my opinion, our arms, even we are work out so much, never reach 1500 kg when we push/pull the spanner, right?

Should I go buy Proto or Cornwell.or Hazet if I want a long lasting tool? Or Elora will be just fine?

 

[CGarage]

Another find going through my storage warehouse….

1/4” drive, dueling Metric / Fractional set circa the mid 90s in metal box.

I have always had a Metric 1/4 drive set close by for the past 25 years or so. I bought this set in the late ~ 90s when it was in a red plastic box. I had even bought a spare set of fractional 1/4 drive sockets and would keep them in a plastic zip lock bag to supplement my favored 1/4 drive Metric set.

This set pictured below does all of that, and it’s in one box.
Too bad I had forgotten about it…..

 

[HannibalLecter]

Very impressed with this sola tape measure. 13€, made in the UK, the retraction is excellent, the brake works as it should, it is well made and it has a nice, not cheesy design

 

[upgrading]

What does the CA under UK stand for ?

 

[HannibalLecter]

What does the CA under UK stand for ?

No idea, maybe that it adheres to some specs

 

[Dave455]

What does the CA under UK stand for ?

United Kingdom Conformity Assessed.

Some goods sold in the U.K. - specifically “Metrology Equipment” (measuring tools) and things like protective equipment have to meet certain minimum standards.

The “UKCA” mark shows that they do. Similar to the “CE” mark for goods destined for Europe.

 

[Dave455]

Next to “”UKCA” there is an accuracy rating.

”Class 2” (II) are guaranteed to +/- 2.3mm over 10m.

”Class 1” (1) are good for +/- 1.1mm over 10m.

 

[dukefx]

Some S-A-M France goodness…..

Those wrenches, the screwdriver, and 2 of the hammers are made in France. The soft faced hammers are "bri'ish"
They produce all over the world these days.