Tools from the old world

[BobsYourUncle69]

Why even bother with Gedore red? They basically just White label the same Taiwanese stuff every other mid range brand offers for less.

I agree , mostly and especially after getting those wrenches.
There are a few exceptions though , Gedore red is very hit/miss.
That hammer and Chizzle set was a hit , as was the $26 1/4 socket set. The wrenches were a total miss and a lot of their other stuff then falls into the category you mention above.

I won't buy their wrenches again and will sometimes buy their sockets if the pricing makes sense , ie , a deal on them etc as I really don't hate their sockets.

Sure , there is Tekton and I like Tekton but their stuff is all so shiny. I very seldom have used a socket where there isn't oil involved in some way or the other and I appreciate the Gedore and the Gedore reds satin finish with that little knurling while the Tekton doesn't have that and its shiny.

There is a lot of Gedore Red stuff I haven't and won't consider as better can be had elsewhere for, as you say , less money for the same product.

 

[M.Jay]

Depends what, I have a Torque wrench which is made in Germany and basicly the same than my real Rahsol and Gedore Torque wrenches.

Fair point! The torque wrenches are indeed German made, as well as the tool carts. But i think that's about it. Their red series just isn't worth it in my opinion and I would rather get something from Proxxon.

 

[epiphany]

Proxxon is well known in the EU, but in the U.S.?

Proxxon is probably everything they don't like. Not shiny, too less pieces in each set and no lifetime warranty.

And unexpected expensive in the U.S.. Nonetheless they have a homepage for the U.S. market here:

INDUSTRIAL Socket sets

proxxon-us-shop.com

Socket set 23040

Amazon Germany ~ 75 Euro ~ 86 Dollar
Proxxon US Shop ~ 154 Dollar ~ 133 Euro

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

Fair point! The torque wrenches are indeed German made, as well as the tool carts. But i think that's about it. Their red series just isn't worth it in my opinion and I would rather get something from Proxxon.

Their hammer /chizzle sets are German made too

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

Proxxon is well known in the EU, but in the U.S.?

Proxxon is probably everything they don't like. Not shiny, too less pieces in each set and no lifetime warranty.

And unexpected expensive in the U.S.. Nonetheless they have a homepage for the U.S. market here:

INDUSTRIAL Socket sets

proxxon-us-shop.com

Socket set 23040

Amazon Germany ~ 75 Euro ~ 86 Dollar
Proxxon US Shop ~ 154 Dollar ~ 133 Euro

Same with regilar Gedore , half the price in South africa vs here and easier to get there vs here only online.

 

[M.Jay]

Proxxon is well known in the EU, but in the U.S.?

As someone living in Germany, I obviously wrote this from my perspective. Buying rebranded tools from a foreign brand doesn't make sense anyways.

Same with regilar Gedore , half the price in South africa vs here and easier to get there vs here only online.

Well, they have their own plant there to supply the local market, thats quite a difference. Also don't forget to consider the income difference.

That said, European tools are generally extremely expensive in the US. I am always shocked at how you guys over there get ripped off.

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

As someone living in Germany, I obviously wrote this from my perspective. Buying rebranded tools from a foreign brand doesn't make sense anyways.


Well, they have their own plant there to supply the local market, thats quite a difference. Also don't forget to consider the income difference.

That said, European tools are generally extremely expensive in the US. I am always shocked at how you guys over there get ripped off.

In SA it was a no brainer , here , I'm finding it harder to justify.
Every now and then a damn good deal comes along and I jump at it but that doesn't help me on a Sunday afternoon when I need a tool I don't have.

I used to be able to go to Builders warehouse(SA equivalent of HD) or Leroy Merlin and buy a Gedore socket, socket set , pliers , wrenches etc or Wiha screw drivers amongst others.

Having said that , I'm new here so maybe I don't know if such places exist , but you can only really pick up a cheap something on a Sunday afternoon from Home Depot , Lowes , AutoZone , Oreily etc. I don't know where one can go just walk into a store and buy a quality tool in Westchester or anywhere ?

Quality tools obviously do exist here , but where can I go on a Saturday and Sunday or any day to buy one ? Especially sockets and wrenches ? Certainly not Lowe's , Home depot , AutoZone or Oreily as they all almost only have Apex or SB&D wrenches and sockets in addition so some other lower end stuff. Lowes and Home depot have great power tool selections between them like Makita , Bosch , DeWalt , Milwaukee and others but their hand tools , not so much , specifically wrenches and sockets as those I look for but there may be others too that I'm not mentioning.

^If someone who knows more could correct me here ?

 

[M.Jay]

In SA it was a no brainer , here , I'm finding it harder to justify.
Every now and then a damn good deal comes along and I jump at it

A year ago I would have suggested to check Amazon.de for good deals, but with the mess going on with tariffs, getting stuff shipped from overseas probably isn't really a good idea at the moment.

Quality tools obviously do exist here , but where can I go on a Saturday and Sunday or any day to buy one ?

This is where the Garage-Journal spirit comes in - You need to have seconds of every tool!

 

[four.cycle]

wow.... free shipping on the Proxxon 23 080 36-piece 1/4" drive set - total $68 with sales tax. not bad!

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

A year ago I would have suggested to check Amazon.de for good deals, but with the mess going on with tariffs, getting stuff shipped from overseas probably isn't really a good idea at the moment.


This is where the Garage-Journal spirit comes in - You need to have seconds of every tool!

I have doubles ,triples and quadruples+ in many tools.
I also have ZERO of some tools that I don't know I need yet and sometime I only know I need them when I do need them despite me trying to anticipate what I might need.

I went years never needing a 29mm socket until one day I needed one on my ex's Hyundai i10 axle nut on a Sunday afternoon as I'd hit a pothole at 140kmh with the right wheel which had knocked the left axle nut loose to the point where it was moving and knocking when pulling away.

That was the least of my worries as it had also damaged the gearbox bearing which was leaking oil onto the clutch as it caused the seal to go bad and right hand wheel bearing had gone bad too. The noise that car made with the gearbox and wheel bearing going bad was quite something. For the last 200km of that trip I was driving a manual /CVT hybrid that I had to get to 160kmh on the downhills to make it on the uphills as it would just slip on those. Was an interesting drive.

It was after that I made sure I never had skips again in anything in addition to researching all size fastners my cars needed.

Anyways , to keep in the spirit of this thread here is a pic of one of my Dowidat NR2 wrenches.
My set consists of 6-19mm newer Gedore NR2 then from 20 to 36mm are the older Dowidat NR2 with a 30x34 Gedore NR2 plugging some of the gap between the 32x36 of my largest Dowidat.

Gedore , some years ago , changed their box end design to rounded rather than sharp 12 points, so if my Gedore NR2 set was older with the older box end design , it would be identical to the Dowidat in every single way.

 

[four.cycle]

* waiting for a response from Proxxon regarding COO on that socket set I mentioned just above... I don't think their hand tools are German-made any more.

 

[M.Jay]

* waiting for a response from Proxxon regarding COO on that socket set I mentioned just above... I don't think their hand tools are German-made any more.

Only their power tools were German made and some are still as far as I am aware of. The hand tools are sourced from Taiwan and of decent quality, but nothing special. Just basic no frills stuff for an affordable price.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I just got a reply from one ebay vendor on that set. I want to hear back from Proxxon USA, though - I am curious as to where they are outsourcing their "bits".
I own a German-made "Proxxon" 1/4" drive socket set, and it's not bad stuff. The ratchet in the kit is a "Wurth", so I can't speak to the quality of Proxxon's ratchet offerings.
But at $61 for a Taiwan-made 36-piece set, I think they're a bit out of the ballpark:
The Tekton "Small Engine Kit" at a $90 price point is a much better deal - metric and SAE, all the "bits", and what has already proven to be a damn good ratchet.

 

[garfieldzzz]

^ I just got a reply from one ebay vendor on that set. I want to hear back from Proxxon USA, though - I am curious as to where they are outsourcing their "bits".
I own a German-made "Proxxon" 1/4" drive socket set, and it's not bad stuff. The ratchet in the kit is a "Wurth", so I can't speak to the quality of Proxxon's ratchet offerings.
But at $61 for a Taiwan-made 36-piece set, I think they're a bit out of the ballpark:
The Tekton "Small Engine Kit" at a $90 price point is a much better deal - metric and SAE, all the "bits", and what has already proven to be a damn good ratchet.

Not sure even if that one is german made. I have one 1/2“ set from the same period as yours and the the quality is quite a bit lower than my about 20year old ones but still everything works and has a decent fit.
Anyway all my Proxxon tools (I own 6 different socket sets) served me well even though they aren't special, they are good value for the money.
Im not 100% convinced with their new style round had ratchet and some of the screwdriver style sockets like hex and torx.
One thing is they do not use all generic patterns but their own designs for at least the socket sets and ratchets.
And they are easy to source from the big box stores at least in Germay.
Costwise i think I paid 72€ for the complete 3/8 kit: https://www.proxxon.com/de/industrial/23112.php
The 1/4 kit you mentioned cost something round 25€-30€ around here

 

[dutchgray]

Only their power tools were German made and some are still as far as I am aware of. The hand tools are sourced from Taiwan and of decent quality, but nothing special. Just basic no frills stuff for an affordable price.

I knew someone who was a serious O gauge railway modeller and about 10 years ago they bought 3 of the Proxxon miniature table saws (though not all at the exact same time) so they could set them up for dedicated tasks, after a while all three suffered electrical failures of various components, but the interesting thing was every one was built slightly differently, different electrical parts, revised circuits etc.

 

[M.Jay]

I own a German-made "Proxxon" 1/4" drive socket set, and it's not bad stuff.

Those sockets doesn't look German to me. What makes you believe they are?

The ratchet in the kit is a "Wurth", so I can't speak to the quality of Proxxon's ratchet offerings.

That's rebadged Facom. Their classic round heads had quite a distinctive look.

But at $61 for a Taiwan-made 36-piece set, I think they're a bit out of the ballpark

As @garfieldzzz already mentioned, you can get that exact set for 30ish Euro (~35 USD) with tax in Germany.

 

[four.cycle]

Those sockets doesn't look German to me. What makes you believe they are?

Good question.
The label inside the lid is the only thing "German" in that kit, after looking at it more closely.
The tools are marked only "Chrome Vanadium".

 

[M.Jay]

The label inside the lid is the only thing "German" in that kit, after looking at it more closely.

It only gives technical details about the used steel and states, that the tools were tested and meet the minimum DIN-standards at the time.
These kind of labels were typical for imported tool sets from the 80s and 90s.

 

[Steve_P]

Amazing innovation of having the side clamp. Always learning something new yet simple. Thanks for sharing.

OTC has several sets with a similar idea- copied from Snap On.

 

[F-22]

Regarding Proxxon hand tools, at least they are unique designs and some things are well thought out. They're not just rebrands, the Taiwan companies make them for them.

The sliding T for example, doubles as an extension and the sliding part doubles as a size adapter. The rotary handle ratchet is a nice design and also has a socket in the handle to double as a 90 degree adapter.

 

[M.Jay]

True, have to give them that. They come up with own designs, instead of just slapping their name on the usual generic offerings.

The sliding T for example, doubles as an extension and the sliding part doubles as a size adapter. The rotary handle ratchet is a nice design and also has a socket in the handle to double as a 90 degree adapter.

Another example would be their "Baton Ratchets", which not only look odd, but also feature a unique mechanism I didn't encounter on any other ratchet yet.

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

G

Regarding Proxxon hand tools, at least they are unique designs and some things are well thought out. They're not just rebrands, the Taiwan companies make them for them.

The sliding T for example, doubles as an extension and the sliding part doubles as a size adapter. The rotary handle ratchet is a nice design and also has a socket in the handle to double as a 90 degree adapter.

Gedore Red's half inch T also doubles up as a size adapter while regular Gedore doesn't. So I thought that was a Taiwanese thing the apdater and sliding T in one.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I got three different emails back from three different ebay vendors this morning who are currently peddling Proxxon, one of which is "Proxxon USA".

"Proxxon USA" says the tools are all made in Taiwan.
One of the other vendors said they were made in Taiwan.
The other vendor emphatically stated they were made in Germany.



go figure.

 

[mikami]

I am working with Proxxon a lot of years, and I have no problem with bits and sockets (only problem is with lasser description on them after some years ). I have to replace ratchet after 15 years, it skipped a lot towards the end. I use this set from time to time, I am not pro. Ratchet are let say (if I compare it with Koken, Facom , GW) enough rough. Some people here in my country classified Proxxon as a semi-profi tools and I think, it is better then some common Taiwan/rebrand tools.

 

[M.Jay]

(only problem is with lasser description on them after some years )

I hate laser engraving on tools. Unfortunately even expensive brands now start with this ****, so they can save a few bucks in production.

 

[F-22]

G
Gedore Red's half inch T also doubles up as a size adapter while regular Gedore doesn't. So I thought that was a Taiwanese thing the apdater and sliding T in one.

Might be. But not a bad idea, cant see many direct downsides to that...

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

Might be. But not a bad idea, cant see many direct downsides to that...

I find that most of the time one needs the sliding T , they need the long extension too. Id much rather be able to use the long extension and sliding T together instead of the size adapter.

 

[NitroExpress]

Got this Hazet bit set and was pleased the bit driver ratchet is made in Germany.

 

[Spongebob89]

Hi, I bought the below Hasler Tachometer Speed Indicator and because I have never use an RPM indicator I would like to confirm if I am reading correct the dial?
Also, do you have to suggest me a quality electronic speed indicator to buy in in order to have a comparison?

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

On the topic of GedoreRED, before the re-brand, it was called Carolus (Full history here: https://www.jettmar.at/marken/carolus/ ) - Personally I always found and find to this day that the older Carolus labled tools offer more “finesse”. (Only got around to take a picture and post today, hence this is rather late to the party …) (1/4” hex sockets pictured.)



Kind regards,
Olli

 

[four.cycle]

^ that is one fine looking piece of machinery there, @Spongebob89

 

[four.cycle]

On the topic of GedoreRED, before the re-brand, it was called Carolus (Full history here: https://www.jettmar.at/marken/carolus/ ) - Pers

Olli - what IS that site?
I am seeing all sorts of brand names I recognize, but I don't read or speak German.

Jettmar's Good Tools ? who is this guy?

*.at is an Austrian domain

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

Olli - what IS that site?
I am seeing all sorts of brand names I recognize, but I don't read or speak German.

Jettmar's Good Tools ? who is this guy?

*.at is an Austrian domain

As far as I understand, it started out as a personal website to keep record of his personal tool inventory, he says he used it in the early days to access said inventory when shopping for tools. At some point it became the blog it is today, still his personal inventory + notes/tests and history of manufacturers. It’s a personal, non-commercial project, however the site uses affiliate links where applicable.

I like to use it as reference on brands where information is rather scarce otherwise.

Yes, Austrian domain, Jettmar is his last name - domain was originally intended for something different, again, by his own account.

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[M.Jay]

On the topic of GedoreRED, before the re-brand, it was called Carolus

I can't prove it, but I believe before Gedore bought Carolus, they sourced some stuff from Japanese manufacturers. Especially the 1/4" hex bit sockets you showed have a distinctive look that suggests Koken as the manufacturer.

Personally I always found and find to this day that the older Carolus labled tools offer more “finesse”.

Shitflation. Can't have nice things, because some corporate goons want to increase their profits.

 

[four.cycle]

can't prove it, but I believe before Gedore bought Carolus, they sourced some stuff from Japanese manufacturers. Especially the 1/4" hex bit sockets you showed have a distinctive look that suggests Koken as the manufacturer.

yes
The site that Olli cited has a detailed history of the "Carolus" brand name:
Carolus / Carolus, Volkeshaus 6, Remscheid-Hasten, Germany / est. 1871, acquired by Gedore 2002 / https://www.jettmar.at/marken/carolus/ /

 

[BobsYourUncle69]

Gedore should have not rebranded it to Gedore red. They didn't do theirselves any favours by doing so as one ( if you're outside the US ) has certain expectations when you see the Gedore name and it often fails to meet those standards.

I say outside of the US as just a couple of years ago I when I moved here I was totally unaware that Gedore decided to dump Indian made wrenches here decades ago which have greatly hurt their reputation here as I've since learned.

 

[Steve_P]

Gedore should have not rebranded it to Gedore red. They didn't do theirselves any favours by doing so as one ( if you're outside the US ) has certain expectations when you see the Gedore name and it often fails to meet those standards.

I say outside of the US as just a couple of years ago I when I moved here I was totally unaware that Gedore decided to dump Indian made wrenches here decades ago which have greatly hurt their reputation here as I've since learned.

Dunno about Gedore having a reputation in the US to ruin decades ago with typical tool users here; even today they have essentially zero presence here outside of the GJ type community. Even Knipex and Wiha were mostly unknown to the masses in the US before the internet gave us more choices.

 

[M.Jay]

Gedore should have not rebranded it to Gedore red. They didn't do theirselves any favours by doing so as one ( if you're outside the US ) has certain expectations when you see the Gedore name and it often fails to meet those standards.

Well, they certainly have a tradition of making dumb business decision.

 

[dutchgray]

Hi, I bought the below Hasler Tachometer Speed Indicator and because I have never use an RPM indicator I would like to confirm if I am reading correct the dial?
Also, do you have to suggest me a quality electronic speed indicator to buy in in order to have a comparison?

I would think you are correct provided you have selected the black range on the knob which selects which range you are measuring.
Is the measurement you got different to what you were expecting?

 

[LanceMc]

I was quite surprised to find this Dewalt hand saw I bought at Ace Hardware was made in Denmark (the old world for me)