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Tools from the old world

Alfajuj

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Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Taiwan
I just thought I would compare my different 3/8 drive ratchets:

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The standard Hazet 8816P is probably the one I reach for most often. It's built like a tank but the drag resistance is the highest of the bunch. I think it's just time for some lubrication...

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The Hazet 8816F is the fine tooth version and is a huge contrast to the standard one. The drag resistance is the least of all in this group except the Koken. It has a very precise feeling mechanism. The design is unusual looking, but I really like it. Inside the mechanism is similar to a Facom. Like the other Facom based designs, it tends to be a bit tall and that can sometimes be a factor in tight spaces.

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This is an older versoin of the 8816F from the 1980's. It's much longer but not as smooth as the later one, but it is still very nice. The reversing knob on the top sometimes gets unintentionally switched, especially when you're using your palm.

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Here is the famous Facom. I heard so much about it that I just had to try one. It has the free-spinning palm control disc on the top so it won't switch in your palm. The mechanism is very fine, almost as good as the later fine tooth Hazet. The ratchet is signifigantly shorter than the others in the group. That could be an asset in some situations, but is a disadvantage in others. They do make a long version, though. There is no COO on the tool, nor was there any on the packaging it came in. But my friend inside Facom Taiwan told me that these are made by USAG in Italy.

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Another famous ratchet, the fabled Snap-On F80. It won't disappoint you in any way. It's so so nice. It's the prima donna of the group and it knows it. :lol:

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This is an older Snap-On F=71B ratchet with a date code from the year 1949. I actually like the looks of it better than the contemporary one. It still works just fine. Very smooth.

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This Elora 870-1-U probably dates to the 1960's or 70's. The mechanism inside is pretty similar to a Snap-On. Its mechanism was very worn and sloppy so I replaced the pawl with one from a modern Elora. The newer gear wheel wouldn't fit because the top part was a larger diameter. I thought about machining it to accept the new gear wheel but decided against it. I wanted to preserve its originality. So now it's half rebuilt. Its action is acceptable now.
This is really a clone of a Belzer. Which in turn was heavily influenced by Snap-On designs.

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Old Belzer socket set for sale on ebay.uk


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This is the undisputed champion of smoothness and low drag resistance. The mind-boggling Koken 3753P. Its smoothness is almost supernatural. You can hardly hear it. Nothing else even comes close. I don't think that it is particularly good looking, but it definitely does the business!
The mechanism inside is pretty much the same as those of Plomb/Proto which of course are also famous for smoothness.
 
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Alfajuj

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Taiwan
Here are some of my recent acquisitions

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Just what I needed: A 1/4" drive deep socket set with flex head ratchet. It was old stock from the 80's. My favorite.:thumbup:
There's space in the tray for a universal and those plugs are removable if you want to put bit sockets there.

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Old stock torx bit and driver set

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I absolutely love the old black trinamic screwdrivers!!! Why did they ever stop making them?

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This is going to be my new favorite screwdriver.:thumbup:

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1980's old stock 1/2" drive flex head ratchet :thumbup:

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I finally finished getting this Elora 3/8 drive set together. The case is contemporary (I bought it separately) but the tools inside are from the 70's I think. It's a metric, AF (SAE), Whitworth and BS socket set! The 3/8 drive whitworth sockets are impossible to find. You can see them in the middle right row. I had to get them from 4 different sources. The colors and logos don't all match and the last one, the 1/4W (third from the left) is actually a Koken. I'm still looking for the actual Elora 1/4W in 3/8 drive to truly make it right. If you see one, tell me.

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Also got a tommy bar to fit my Koken breaker bar. Very handy! It's like having a breaker bar and a sliding T all in one tool.
 
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mr_jack

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Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
170
Location
Shumen, Bulgaria
I am impressed by the excellent processing, there is no lateral play between the cross-bakes. In this point NWS do an absolutely first-class job, just as well at the Quattro grip models.

If you shake the cobra it rattles like a tambourine, the NWS make the sound of silence. ;)

As owner of 20+ Knipex tools and a fan of the brand it's hard for me to admit it, but it is true. The Cobras do wobble alot, so is the pliers-wrench. And those things are noticeable.

These days I'm gonna do a "head-to-head" with pictures of a NWS and a Knipex cable cutters.
 
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Monte

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Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
12,663
Location
Germany
news from Bosch: 10,8 volt 4 AH batteries

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superautobacs

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Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
3,997
Location
Vancouver, BC
I just thought I would compare my different 3/8 drive ratchets:

That was a great post. Thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

If you had pick just one rathet, which one would it be? Brand loyalty needs to be excluded. :D



:thumbup:


I am impressed by the excellent processing, there is no lateral play between the cross-bakes. In this point NWS do an absolutely first-class job, just as well at the Quattro grip models.

If you shake the cobra it rattles like a tambourine, the NWS make the sound of silence. ;)

Blöckw@rt, that's a nice collection you got there!

I bought my first Quattro Grip in 2010, when I was in Germany. It's served me very well and totally happy with its performance. I like the Cobras too, but the extra robustness and its design in the practical and aesthetic sense is better on the NWS for sure.

Well, I needed to get a larger model so I recently got a 400mm length. Also got a my first dedicated cable shears. It cuts pretty decently through the battery cable I had laying around.

Also got a Felo 1/4" flex bit driver. The outer protective sheathing seems quite durable. There has to be a good medium....too hard and it won't allow enough flex, but will be durable....too soft and it'll twist too easily and will wear out faster when rotated against metal peices and stuff.
The Felo one is stiffer than my cheapo Chinese ones, but less flex. ....but the Felo is just made wayyyyy better. :thumbup:

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Alfajuj

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Taiwan
That was a great post. Thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

If you had pick just one rathet, which one would it be? Brand loyalty needs to be excluded. :D
Ahh, you're killing me!
If I had to pick just one.....
Oh, I'll stick with the old tank- the Hazet 8816 P!!! (The antique Snap-On F71 takes a close second!):beer:

Obviously, it's not a rational choice, but let's face it: These are all great ratchets. Close your eyes and grab any of them and you'll be fine.

That Hazet ratchet has a special sentimental value for me because it was the first Hazet tool I ever bought. In a way it represents the beginning of all this Hazet insanity which I'm afflicted with. :evil:
 

Josiah_db

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
92
Location
Tasmania, Australia
Some new additions came in the mail today for my growing snap on hard handle collection, but sadly ill have to sell some of them soon to pay off the purchase
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I'm loving all the different coloured ratcheting hard handled screwdrivers, plus I bought them all BRAND NEW!!!!
 

Alagix

New member
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
1
Hey guys,

I got this block plane through ebay, really interested to find out more about the mark under the frog. I deciphered the plane was made in Germany at some point, but other than that I cant find anything else about it!

BhenxnF.jpg


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Omg really sorry bout the massive pics! im useless at forums lol
 
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Alfajuj

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Taiwan
If it was me, I'd just keep the black and the red ones.
You probably shouldn't feel bad about letting the pink one go....

I love the extra long 3/8 drive ratchet. It's longer than a 3/8 breaker bar.
 

Nocturnal-G

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Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
825
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Ahh, you're killing me!
If I had to pick just one.....
Oh, I'll stick with the old tank- the Hazet 8816 P!!! (The antique Snap-On F71 takes a close second!):beer:

Obviously, it's not a rational choice, but let's face it: These are all great ratchets. Close your eyes and grab any of them and you'll be fine.

That Hazet ratchet has a special sentimental value for me because it was the first Hazet tool I ever bought. In a way it represents the beginning of all this Hazet insanity which I'm afflicted with. :evil:

How's the Snap On dual 80 compare to the Hazet 8816F in terms of smoothness and strength?

I'm interested since I don't own any Snap On. :)
 

Alfajuj

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Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Taiwan
How's the Snap On dual 80 compare to the Hazet 8816F in terms of smoothness and strength?

I'm interested since I don't own any Snap On. :)

Even if you don't like Snap On, you should at least once in your life try one.

Well, the Hazet feels finer, with a lighter more precise feel.
The action of the Snap On feels stiffer but more positive, like the entire module (scale) of the gears is larger. So I guess that would be strength.

The fine feel of the Hazet almost makes you afraid to really lean on it, while with the Snap On you wouldn't hesitate to.
But when something is really stuck, I'm pretty conscientious about using a breaker bar anyway.
 
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Josiah_db

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Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
92
Location
Tasmania, Australia
If it was me, I'd just keep the black and the red ones.
You probably shouldn't feel bad about letting the pink one go....

I love the extra long 3/8 drive ratchet. It's longer than a 3/8 breaker bar.

Ill only sell a few so I can keep a few for myself, they are the nicest ratchet screwdrivers I have ever held so smooth, and I bought all the ratchet screwdrivers together as a set in eBay, that's why I have the pink one.
 

Nocturnal-G

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Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
825
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Even if you don't like Snap On, you should at least once in your life try one.

Well, the Hazet feels finer, with a lighter more precise feel.
The action of the Snap On feels stiffer but more positive, like the entire module (scale) of the gears is larger. So I guess that would be strength.

The fine feel of the Hazet almost makes you afraid to really lean on it, while with the Snap On you wouldn't hesitate to.
But when something is really stuck, I'm pretty conscientious about using a breaker bar anyway.

Thanks for the comparison Alfajuj! I was actually considering getting a Bahco 1/4 drive that has the dual 80 mechanism... I got the Hazet 863-1 instead and I'm happy with it so far, it's really smooth. I wouldn't mind trying some Snap On ratchets... Maybe soon, after I buy more Hazet. :evil:
 

LeGarage

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Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
75
Location
The Netherlands
What do you think of aluminium ratchets? Are they as strong as the chrome vanadium ones?
I can buy a Gedore 1993 U-10 ALU for less than a normal U-10T ratchet...
 
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Monte

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
12,663
Location
Germany
video of the new Metabo flat head angle grinders:

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6FiMXpxBaoU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and videos of the new Fein cordless drills:

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/S7vH90dlzXk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_V3DyVuEIVk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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neophyte

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Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,530
Location
Pennsylvannia
Male! Thanks. Can't find it anywhere, but this is what I meant. :lol:

I don't know whether this website actually has it in stock, but they do have it listed on their website.

http://www.uktools.com/oil-sump-sock-p-22736.html

I found it by googling facom d.105 and then checking for the 8mm square. There's also an 8mm octagonal? so you might want to be careful searching.

A 5/16" may also work.

SK makes a 5/16" square plug socket part number 41450

Draper also sells a 5/16" plug socket.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38324-Bra...d=100011&prg=1005&rk=3&rkt=5&sd=140954957590&
 
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Mr MoAiZo

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Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
210
Location
Germany
It's on my wish list, that's for sure! I'd love to own one of each Hazet ratchet. If i was to start a new hobby, that would be it.

One of every Hazet ratchet ever made throughout the years. Of great, my wallet hurts just THINKING about that. :D

I have ratchets from many manufacturers that are based in Germany (I mean Made in Germany) - Belzer, Elora, Gedore, Hazet, Stahlwille - and I must say that the Hazet ratchets are very good. To my surprise the ratchet that I use the most is the 1/2" Gedore 1993 U-20 with 72 teeth and quick release.
It might not be the most beautiful ratchet in your collection (I have the 1/2" 72 teeth Hazet, too), but I must say that it is a reliable partner in every day work. Might be cheaper than Hazet (at least in Germany it is).

I know exactly what you mean. Snap on charges a premium price and then some for those wrenches, and they're just not as well made as Hazet or Stahlwille.

Same with their screwdrivers. Try Hazet screwdrivers and you'll regard Snap on as junk. ;) There's a reason that Matco screwdrivers are made in Germany. The tips are hard as a rock, quite unlike Snap on.

I once twisted a brand new Snap on screwdriver tip on a bronze screw. I didn't even know that was possible. :eyecrazy:

Try Wiha (my favourite) or Felo. They are good and maybe cheaper than the Hazet ones.

Hey guys,

I got this block plane through ebay, really interested to find out more about the mark under the frog. I deciphered the plane was made in Germany at some point, but other than that I cant find anything else about it!

BhenxnF.jpg


Wc914wZ.jpg


BgM0QNc.jpg



Omg really sorry bout the massive pics! im useless at forums lol
This means 'Deutsche Reichs-Gebrauchsmuster'.
 

cosmik binturong

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Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
848
Location
.fr
Male! Thanks. Can't find it anywhere, but this is what I meant. :lol:

you can also find that from Ko-ken: 3110M-8 in 3/8" available from Rakuten with cheap and fast shipping or in the UK from uktools.com and in 1/2" too: *clicky!* or from Mattes-Werkzeuge with probably the best online prices in Europe for Ko-ken stuff... :thumbup:

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(pic shamelessly made from stolen recycled electrons originating from this part of the internets: *clicky!* :cool:)
 
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Monte

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Dec 23, 2008
Messages
12,663
Location
Germany
New Hazet promo/news flyer 2013/2014:

http://www.hazet.de/fileadmin/media/aktionen/sww_2013_2.pdf



I wonder how "fast" is the electronic torque clutch vs normal ..
good question.... when i tried the Festool with electronic clutch the tool immediatly stopped with a "beep" sound when the torque was reached. Because of the electronics i think they can stop the tool pretty fast and also make sure the torque is always the same. Here´s what Metabo writes:
http://www.metabo.com/LTX-BRUSHLESS-Revolutionary-powerful-and-precise.49175.0.html












News from Metabo: World´s first 150mm cordless angle grinder:

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garthg

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Sep 8, 2012
Messages
535
Location
Winchester MA
Still would like to know if anyone knows a good tool store near central Munich Germany. I will be there tomorrow.

Thanks.
 

Alfajuj

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Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Taiwan
I got this 10mm Hazet 600 wrench from Germany on ebay.de
It seems to not be chrome plated.:dunno:
It's not like the chrome wore off or rusted off, it's pretty clear that it never was chrome plated.
I can't tell if it's nickel, cadmium or zinc or what. but I can tell you that it's dark gray, almost black and it resists all efforts to clean up.
I tried vinegar, Happich metal polish, a brass brush. Nothing will touch it.

Does anyone know how old this wrench might be? From the closeup of the logo, the underline is an elongated U shape.
There's this Porsche 356 website which says this logo may be from the 70's (it does have a question mark) but I know that that is nonsense. Hazet stopped the small "a" logo in the early 60's and never went back to it. That annoys me that a lot of people quote that source, since it's one of only a few on the subject on the internet. Here's the link if you want to see it. I have emailed him asking him to update it, hopefully it will be corrected soon: http://www.356tools.com/wrenches/Hazet%20comparison.htm
But please don't propagate this untruth.
Update: I contacted the writer of the above site and he has corrected it. :beer:

But now I found a much better link from LaSamba, which is a VW site which has a lot of Hazet fanaticism. This guy sheds a lot more light on the subject. He says that the elongated U underline is even older than the others: very early 50's or even 40's , not from the 70's!!!!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6806577

All the old Hazet catalogs from the Hazet website, even the 1952 one, shows the 600 series wrenches as always nickel chrome plated.
It would make sense that it is early post war, as that time still had shortages of things like chrome. I know that during the war years American tool manufacturers like Plomb used cadmium plating as a substitute for chrome.
Anyway, I think it is a very cool old antediluvian wrench and I plan to leave it as it is, since that is what the wrench itself seems to prefer. It is definitely my oldest Hazet piece.:thumbup:

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Monte

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Dec 23, 2008
Messages
12,663
Location
Germany
Still would like to know if anyone knows a good tool store near central Munich Germany. I will be there tomorrow.

Thanks.

here some Hazet dealers:

MARSCHALL & SCHWETER GMBH
Elsaesser Straße 27
81667 Muenchen

MAX MICHL GMBH
Drosselweg 17
81827 Muenchen

Knoll GmbH
Domagkstraße 10
80807 München

Kurt Kretschmann
Claudiusplatz 18
80992 München

ATR / Stahlgruber GmbH
Margot-Kalinke-Straße 3
80939 München


Stahlwille:

Neimcke GmbH & Co. KG
Ammerthalstraße 13-17
85551 Kirchheim/Heimstetten

Hoffmann GmbH
Haberlandstraße 55
81241 München














Hazet 600N vs. Hazet 600

 

mac_intosh

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Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
118
Location
Remscheid, Germany
@Alfajuj, it seems quite old maybe from 1950. It can´t be earlier because pre-war the 600´s number were the 630´s double offset ring spanners. (I hope that makes sense...)

I can´t tell precisely because I only have the title page of the 1950´s catalog yet.
 

Alfajuj

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Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Taiwan
@Alfajuj, it seems quite old maybe from 1950. It can´t be earlier because pre-war the 600´s number were the 630´s double offset ring spanners. (I hope that makes sense...)

I can´t tell precisely because I only have the title page of the 1950´s catalog yet.
Thanks Mac Intosh !:thumbup: :bowdown:
From the 1950 title page can you see the elongated "U" logo?
Would you share a scan of that page?:D

The earliest catalog I have seen is the 1951 one which you provided.
It lists the 600 as nickel chrome plated. Is there any information on what would be the finish on this early wrench?
thanks!
 
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Alfajuj

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Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Taiwan
Here's an image I clipped from a 1951 Hazet catalog showing a 450 wrench with the elongated "U" underline logo.
So I guess that logo is from 1950 and earlier.
The 1952 catalog picture of the 450 doesn't have it.



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Alfajuj

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
373
Location
Taiwan
Here are also some sub variants on the 600 and 600N series

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The one on the bottom is earlier. It is shorter and the beam is narrower and rounder. The size is stamped. Of course there are the earlier ones before 1965 which have the small "a" logo.
The later one on top has the size forged in. This is the series I am trying to collect. They are my favorite.

DSC01063.JPG


The early 600N on the bottom has the double recess which some people prefer. They are also proportionally a bit longer. I recall one post where the person said that the finish of the earlier ones is grayer. But I think that is just patina.
The present 600N on top is perhaps the perfect evolution of the combination wrench. This design also nods to the traditional Hazet design more than the double recess did.
 

CanUK

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Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
1,074
These just arrived. No COO (any guesses?), but they look and feel nice. I've used the Britool version before (on long term loan) and was happy. In fact that's what I ordered this time, but they were out of stock so sent me these instead:

View media item 33165
View media item 33166
 

Van Steele

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Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
253
Location
Norfolk, UK
I got this 10mm Hazet 600 wrench from Germany on ebay.de
It seems to not be chrome plated.:dunno:
It's not like the chrome wore off or rusted off, it's pretty clear that it never was chrome plated.
I can't tell if it's nickel, cadmium or zinc or what. but I can tell you that it's dark gray, almost black and it resists all efforts to clean up.
I tried vinegar, Happich metal polish, a brass brush. Nothing will touch it.

My Grandad got a set of - I think 450's - DOE's "after the war" that had some sort of parkerize for their finish, with polished heads. Me and my older brother, who has them now, have always known them so "after the war" would be anything between '45 and the late 50's.
They were to be cleaned and oiled after each use unless you fancied a smack 'round the head. :lol:
 

jensputzier

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Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
468
Location
Leichlingen (near Wuppertal and Remscheid), German
There is a current offer from Hazet for a tool cart with tools. I combined the tools with the 166C which might be interesting for some of you. Here is the link to Ebay to show what I mean. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261279116305&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Please let me know whether you think that combining the 166C with the foam inserts (as it is supposed to be possible from Hazet) is a smart idea or not?

GJ members will get a 10% discount on any Ebay prices if the buy directly off me instead of through Ebay.

Regards
Jens
 

north

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Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
1,502
Location
Norway
These just arrived. No COO (any guesses?), but they look and feel nice. I've used the Britool version before (on long term loan) and was happy. In fact that's what I ordered this time, but they were out of stock so sent me these instead:

*snip*]
Maybe Wilde?
 
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