Tools from the old world

[Monte]

some more ajdustable wrenches (a.k.a monkey wrench a.k.a Engländer a.k.a Franzose ) this time from my fathers toolbox:

Gedore 2x 8" + 10"

Hazet 12"

(= Irega series 92 ?)

Stanley !
Stanley ?

Didn`t know that they once offered quality products (ok screwdrivers still good (Fat max))

 

[superautobacs]

this time from my fathers toolbox:

Nice to see some more items from your father's collection.

I like how the Gedore ones all have the directional arrow stamped into it; just like the Nepros and, IIRC the SO branded Bahco Ergos.

The Hazet is clearly an Irega, and probably a rather old one. Unlike the newer ones which have a four knurl worm gear, it appears like those ones have the older three knurl worm gear.
Is it stamped "Spain" on the back side?


Of course, Stanley had to go with the cheapest, most economical offering from Irega for their lineup.

 

[superautobacs]

@ricleh: Someone (superautobacs ?) posted a link somewhere here from a shop in the US who sells these IPS pliers:

So if you would ask them probably they could order the long reach IPS pliers for you ?


@superautobacs: hey the plastic gedore nutholder is on my wishlist now !

Yeah, that's me. I posted a link from LeeValley Tools
. Ricleh, perhaps you can hound them with requests to add those pliers into their offerings.

You like that little device too, eh. I was dead-set on getting it the first time I saw it.


Something else from Gedore...
A hand guard to protect your fingers and more importantly, eases the jarring vibrations from pounding the chisel:

 

[Monte]

ah yes here they are: click

The Hazet wrench shows no COO. But i think there is nobody who makes them here anymore. The Gedore`s are now from their brazil factory. Also the only tool which they offer here which was manufactured in one of their other plants. But they found out that they can make them for a lower price over there he said. Adjustable wrenches are sometimes considered as no real tool over here since there is a wrench for every size.

Gedore hand guard and PB chisel ? Nice combination. The best from both worlds ? Interesting color combination But i think it`s the best hand guard out there due to the double layer contruction, which absorbs any strike of a hammer better.
I somehow saw them here too, oh yes:

 

[Monte]

Facom diagonal cutter:

 

[billymade]

I am on Gedore's email list for announcements and new tools... check out some new tools they came out with!

Anniversary Promotion; socket, ratchet and box set!
GEDORE anniversary promotion – rugged box with new ratchet
GEDORE was one of the first companies to market socket sets.

http://www.gedore.net/module/objproduct_data/6/oed_73686_539_1_0_PM_GED_1919_90_09_UK.pdf

1/2" ratchet
GEDORE 1993 GU-10 XL – Swivel-head ratchet, extra long

http://www.gedore.net/module/objproduct_data/6/oed_73687_539_1_0_PM_GED_1993GU10XL_09_UK.pdf

Pliers:
GEDORE 8133 – Versatile three-way pliers

The new GEDORE three-way pliers combine several functions in a single product.
https://www.gedore.net/module/objproduct_data/6/oed_73688_539_1_0_PM_GED_8133_09_UK.pdf


Free Prizes, Promotion? (For Europeans only?)

http://www.gedore.de/module/objproduct_data/7/oed_21_539_1_0_PM_GTC_Aufreisser_09_UK.pdf

The extra long ratchet reminds me of my 24" Snap-On ratchet, interesting that Gedore was one of the first to make sockets/ratchets in 1919! I don't own any Klann or Gedore but it all looks like very high quality German tools! Any comments about Gedore, monte?

 

[Monte]

The 90 yrs. Gedore anniversary set is nice. Only 90.- Euro (+19%tax) with all important 1/2" tools.
The Gedore tools should be avail. through every Klann dealer, the long ratchet is also avail. as Klann model i saw it at the Klann booth at a fair.

They are sometimes underrated i think probably because of the industrial design/finish something what nobody bothers here since the employer supplies the tools.

They started late with their tool production (Stahlwille 1862, Hazet 1868, Matador 1900 ) but are now the largest german producer of handtools with 7 plants in Germany 1 in Austria as well as 1 in Brasil, South africa and Turkey to serve the local markets. They are also one of the last companies who makes almost everything on their own (pliers, sockets, wrenches,axes, pipe tools, striking tools, shop equipment, pullers, bits + screwdrivers, torque tools etc.) due to the acquisitions of several companies (Dako/Ochsenkopf, Bremer/Habero, Mesenhöller/Carolus technic, Herder/Rahsol, Krumm/Baldur, Klann, Torqueleader, Loesomat) So their motto is "if we have the machines we make it". They are also the tool company who owns the largest forging hammer in europe. So all sockets larger than 100mm (IIRC) and all wrenches larger than 50 mm (iirc) are from gedore anyway no matter if they say hazet or stahlwille etc. (slugging wrenches too ). They are still a family run business (3rd. generation) and kind of traditional since they were the last ones who jumped on the "flank drive" bandwagon just a couple of years ago (they say "our sockets fit" ), still hot forge their sockets, and even received awards for not changing their design like the "Busse Longlife" award for producing this torque wrenches unchanged since 1966: click

And another award for their open-end wrenches "No. 6" which are produced since 1954 in the same design. I don`t think that you see much changes in the future since they are confident that the way they make the tools is the right way. On the other hand next to the regular hand-forged tools they operate a fully automated forge and forging robots.

So if you`re looking for quality traditional german handtools you probably are a future customer of gedore

I personally own a few Gedore tools which were already shown here (some) (engineers hammer, club hammer, open end wrenches,line wrenches, torque wrench, screwdrivers, pipe wrenches, pliers, sockets, striking tools...) and I`m happy with them so far (fitment of 1/4" bit sockets is too shaky)

Gedore No.6 open end wrenches:

Gedore "Dremometer" made of one piece of aluminium

Gedore hot forged 6 point socket without "flank drive" etc.

Close up of 1/2" sockets:

close up of 1/4" sockets:

 

[dede2897234]

Monte,

What is the use or uses for the Gedore "Dremometer"?


Thanks,

Dave

 

[Zorro13]

Monte,

What is the use or uses for the Gedore "Dremometer"?


Thanks,

Dave

Although I'm not Monte I think I can answer this:

The 'Drehmometer' is a torque wrench without the ratcheting function. Very 'old-school' but robust and precise.

 

[dede2897234]

Zorro13,

Thanks for explaining the function of the Gedore "Dremometer". Once I read your description of the tool, I took a second look at the "Dremometer" picture posted by Monte. It does look like a torque wrench! Now I see the light! Initially, when I look at the picture, I was fooled by the protrusions at the end of the handle and the indentations above the protrusions.

Dave

 

[Monte]

Zorro is right.
Here some more + better pics:
The torque wrench is also available with built in ratchet. The body is cnc-machined out of one solid piece of aluminium. The parts inside the torque wrench are made out of forged (!) steel. Here are some even larger pics (if you click on the pics) click

Here is a PDF press release from Gedore (in english) where they explain how this wrench is made together with some pictures of the production process
CLICK

 

[The Muffin Man]

Gedore hot forged 6 point socket without "flank drive" etc.

That is one fine looking socket

Excellent picture Monte!

 

[superautobacs]

Adjustable wrenches are sometimes considered as no real tool over here since there is a wrench for every size.

It's true.... but there's still a place and time that's appropriate for them.

.... i think it`s the best hand guard out there due to the double layer contruction, which absorbs any strike of a hammer better.

Yeah, I haven't seen one with the double layer anywhere else
but Gedore.

That is one fine looking socket

I'm wondering what exactly it is about that socket that is so outstanding

Here's a pic of a couple 3/8" Unit Drive Gedore sockets:
Hot forged and gas-treated 31CrV3 (same as Hazet) alloy steel.

For some reason the knurling on the larger 17mm is not as deep-cut as the smaller 10mm.

 

[Monte]

Gedore ignition wrenches 4-17mm (15 + 75 degr. offset)

Detail Gedore "No. 6" open end wrenches:

 

[Monte]

Here something for auperautobacs Found this exotics yesterday at the flea market:
Tone 3/8" and 1/4" ratchets , Anex bit-ratchet and 1 koken and a KTC socket. The dude had a box full of japanese tools he said he got them from a motorcycle hobbyist. I wonder what he did with 5 identical Tone 3/8" ratchets and 20 (!) torque wrenches (1/4" + 3/8") from Tohnichi and Kanon (pre-set production type and also adjustable) 5 of them the same model (Kanon 120QLK , 4-12NM click). He also had a couple of vessel and sunflag screwdrivers, Mitoloy (T-handle driver), swell (t-handle) and trusco (slipjoint plier) brand. Very exotic !! Unfortunately i ran out of money so i picked up this: (for 28.- €)

 

[billymade]

The head design, looks like classic Proto!

 

[-B-]

Monte I want to go to that flea market I would have bought as many of the ratchets and torque wrenches as I could have.

 

[superautobacs]

Billymade, we now where the Japanese tool makers got their influences from. ie. Snap-on for the handle designs and Plomb/Proto the head design and vice versa. It's not only Tone, but also KTC, Ko-ken...and I'm sure there are others. ....but that's nothing really new; almost every tool-maker around the world was influenced by another in some form or fashion.

Monte, like -B-, I wish I was there to see what he had, and I probably would've put that amount of money for that lot, too.
How does the Tone feel in comparison to the Ko-ken? BTW, do you like the smoothness of the Ko-ken pear heads in comparison to other similar ratchets you own?
I had been thinking of purchasing that anex bit ratchet. What do you think of it? Do you feel the magnet to be strong enough?
Did the seller have a 3/8" beam type Kanon torque wrench!? I've been wanting one!

Edit: I just re-read my post....that was a lot of questions. I don't expect to see an answer right away; take your time Monte.

 

[dede2897234]

superautobacs,

I have noticed you own many hand tools produced by Japanese manufacturers? Where do you buy the new hand tools in Canada? Do the distributors or retailers have a website?

Thanks,

Dave

 

[superautobacs]

Dave,

It's partly because I was born and raised originally in Japan so I did bring over just a VERY small selection of tools that I had at the time.
Like any other location in North America, the Japanese brand-name tools are pretty much non-existant....well, except for the few online retailers that have a small inventory of some select items (hardly a distributor). I think all of such retailers have already been uncovered here, in this thread or in the forum. I'm not sure if you're already aware, but lately we had a sales manager from South Bay Tools come forward to say he has some stuff (Here's the thread on that). I purchased some stuff from them for a good price. They used to have some of the items I requested and they were sold at a HUGE bargain! ...stuff like 24" 1/2" or 3/4" breaker bars.

Maybe you're already aware of the following:
This place has a VERY small selection of KTC/Ko-ken tools: http://ultimatetoolco.com/products.aspx
If you want to get a taste of Japan's best, here's Nepro's official North American site (owned by KTC):
http://www.nepros.net/

 

[Monte]

I`m sure the dude will be there next saturday too, I`ll take some pics if he will allow it. For the pre-set wrenches (QSPK series) he wanted 15.- Euro and for the adjustable 20.- Euro ea. He only had these types , no beam type. Everything looked almost new, the stickers on the wrenches were a little bit scratched but everything else looked nice. Here`s a pic of the Tone ratchets square drives, also looks like new:

Since the ratchet/interchangeable sockets were invented in the US i think thats why there is a basic design which evolved from early USA tools. The "matador" tools website state that the founder travelled to the US and brought back the idea of socket sets and then started to make them here in the 1920`s.

The bit-ratchet only has a ball retainer - no magnet - but it works well. The ratcheting is comparable to the Kastar ratcheting wrenches (also avail. here from Hazet etc.) and to these mini ratchets:

I still haven`t the (48 tooth RH) koken ratchet at my hands, but the ratcheting was nice and smooth , better than the SO 936 but not as nice as a SO swivelhead . The Tone ratchets have a nice smooth ratcheting action too, thanks to the dual pawl design. I also have 2 Gedore dual pawl ratchets which are even nicer than the Tone one and all the others (Thats why i bought them ) The Tohnichi ratchet head was the best (from the easiness of turning the square and least resistance)

The ugly duckling and the beautiful swans

 

[billymade]

Monte, what did you think of this new ratchet? I think it looks killer; it reminds me of the 24" Snap-On ratchet I have..... do you have one of these? The handle looks like some of the Stahlwille, I have seen!

1/2" ratchet
GEDORE 1993 GU-10 XL – Swivel-head ratchet, extra long

http://www.gedore.net/module/objprod...10XL_09_UK.pdf

Specs:

Ratchets 12.5 mm (1/2")
1993 GU-10 XL Swivel head reversible ratchet 1/2"extra long

• Swivels through 180°, with joint lock, especially suitable for firmly seated bolts
• With lever change
• Push-button release
• Max. torque 600 N·m
• Locks in the middle position: When the lever is flipped, it automatically engages for clockwise or counterclockwise operation
• For hand-operated sockets and accessories with square drive as per DIN 3120 - C 12.5, ISO 1174, ball locking device
• GEDORE vanadium steel 31CrV3, chrome-plated

The handle; gives it a "Stahlwillesque" look to it!

Another case of a Proto head design; Gedore seems to have less sophisticated designs, then say Hazet or Stahlwille. Would you agree? I'm also kind of surprised the head isn't sealed. Many times, average German tools seem to follow "function over form", "if it isn't broken don't fix it", and the classic tendency for German designs to stay in production for a long time, changes take place slowly...

Have any idea how much these go for? I tried yahoo.de without any luck!

 

[tw33k2514]

Monte, I just have to say thank you for providing me hours of mouth watering enjoyment with this thread.

I will post up some pics of my Wera stuff once I get it from chads.

 

[Monte]

@tw33k2514: No problem ! you are welcome ! I also have to thank for the replies and postings here of all kinds of exotic foreign tools.

ps: Here`s the KTC/Nepros story: http://en.ktc.co.jp/brand/story.html

@billymade: The 600mm long Gedore XL ratchet retails for 105,10 Euro (+19% tax)
(The standard 270mm ratchet 60,60 € + vat, the 350mm model for 72,70+ ,
The aluminium ratchet is 76,70+)
I only have the regular long version.It was planned to buy a 3/4" set when i found a good deal since IMHO that is the better way to go instead to buy a longer 1/2" ratchet. 3/4" ratchets are usually 500 - 600mm long and should hold up min. to 1412 NewtonMeter (ISO norm).
The extra long version looks basically the same but longer + flex-head:

It`s not a beauty but it works well and is nicely finished (no grinding marks etc.)
They also offer a more "advanced" /designed version:

We don`t have sealed heads here, only in the US i think. Probably because it`s patented, but i think nobody thought about that or think it is necessary since the ratchets work without seal too They are not fluid tight but grime and dirt can`t enter.

Yes Stahlwille and specially Hazet have a more sophisticated design probably because they only have to focus mostly on wrenches + sockets etc. while Gedore produce everything from Axes to pliers to plumbing tools etc. and you can`t put all your effort in every tool what you offer. For example the Gedore pliers are really nice IMHO but the Knipex ones are even nicer (optical) since they are all hand ground vs. robot ground Gedore pliers. But a human can still grind better than a robot, you can see it if you look at pliers which have rounded surfaces like diagonal cutters which look "edged" at the sides (robot) vs. smooth (hand ground) Knipex pliers.

Some sophisticated designs:

And more of the ugly duckling + beautiful swan:

 

[superautobacs]

I`m sure the dude will be there next saturday too, I`ll take some pics if he will allow it.

hey, quick reply with all the answers!
Yeah, that'be great if you can take some photos.

The bit-ratchet only has a ball retainer - no magnet - but it works well.

So it seems like the newer production models have a magnet built into them.


Interesting to hear about the smoothness/drag/resistances between the different brands.
I've only tried a Ko-ken and Nepros and I ended up favouring the former.

the Tone is a great addition to the family of ugly ducklings. ...look at the directional switch; it almost looks out of place.

Edit: not that it really matters much to us, but I thought I'd share this anyway....
Like many US brands have been doing so, Tone seems to be outsourcing their recent ratchet production overseas instead, from Taiwan.

 

[Monte]

@superautobacs: Do you know what the text next to the small pic with the (hollow ? screw on?) handle says ?:
click

Some of my favourite ratchets from japan. Unfortunately not in my possession (not yet )

There are also 5 wooden handle models: NBR3CR, NBR3CG, NBR3CBR, NBR3CBK, NBR3CBL
(hint: google pic search ) i want them all

out of this world

 

[-B-]

Monte the adjustable torque wrench is a steal hrrrmmmm I think we need to work out a deal to get one or two to the states.

 

[dede2897234]

Superautobacs,

Thanks for sharing your background information and the link to Nepros' North American website. I will look into Nepros once I acquire some more spending cash.

Dave

 

[Monte]

For some reason the knurling on the larger 17mm is not as deep-cut as the smaller 10mm.

yes i noticed this also, other sockets are the same - smaller socket large knurling large socket smaller knurling ? I will investigate that next time when i see a gedore dude.
Maybe someone forgot to exchange the knurling tool in the lathe ? i dunno....

So it seems like the newer production models have a magnet built into them.

Yeah the bit also goes deeper into the holder. The have now special bits too. The height is now 21mm with bit.
Here their product PDF Anex bit ratchet
I measured 28mm with my older Anex ratchet (with regular pz3 bit)

I once made this comparison but with 1/4" drive tools. So how high is your SEK highfive bitratchet with short bit compared to the ANEX ratchet ? Maybe the same length so you dont have to buy a new one ?

Interesting to hear about the smoothness/drag/resistances between the different brands.
I've only tried a Ko-ken and Nepros and I ended up favouring the former.

The Gedore + Tohnichi seems to have softer springs then. From my experience dual pawl ratchets are always easier to turn than single pawl ratchets. Ko-ken has 2 pawls too, Nepros only 1.

Tone ratchet. Very dry in there.

the Tone is a great addition to the family of ugly ducklings. ...look at the directional switch; it almost looks out of place.

Edit: not that it really matters much to us, but I thought I'd share this anyway....
Like many US brands have been doing so, Tone seems to be outsourcing their recent ratchet production overseas instead, from Taiwan.

The switch is a bit too long, and also the combination of "european head" design with american style handle is odd too. A sealed head design would look better imho. But maybe they thought the can attract buyers from Europe and USA with this global design .
Head from europe, handle USA, price japan and made in taiwan. Thats globalization !

The ratchet says "Japan" on it (just like the ko-ken screwdrivers....) but the newer tone ratchets look a bit different , different switch and the "oil holes" are gone too, maybe thats the new ones from taiwan ? Hopefully they dont put "japan" on it because thats fraud Time for seppuku then for their managers
I wonder if they make sockets, wrenches etc. too because they dont offer size 11, 16 and 18mm ? But they have a nice copy of the Hazet assisstent in orange...

Monte the adjustable torque wrench is a steal hrrrmmmm I think we need to work out a deal to get one or two to the states.

Let me know if you 100% want one. I`ll try to take pics and then you can decide.


@superautobacs: Do you have any of these Mitoloy swivel head ratcheting wrenches ?

 

[billymade]

I wonder if all these companies that copy the Proto design are paying royalties to Proto or if the design is so old it is just "free use", at this point?

 

[-B-]

Monte i defiantly want one I figure $50 should cover tool and shipping ( 30 for the tool and 20 to ship) It will cost me that much gust to have one of my lower end TQ wrenches fixed/ calibrated and it is only going to get used for my travel box for service.

 

[bchee]

Are my eyes deceiving me here? What's wrong with the top part of the gear? It looks like it's missing completely.

 

[FiftyCalAl]

Yeah looks that way< but i believe it is an optical illusion.

The gear was probably ink dipped at one time during an inspection process prior to assembly, showing it was inspected or something.

 

[Monte]

I wonder if all these companies that copy the Proto design are paying royalties to Proto or if the design is so old it is just "free use", at this point?

I think patents run out after 20 yrs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent
I don`t know if you can renew it or so but a design "gets old" sometimes and you also want to make something new to attract the buyers.

Monte i defiantly want one I figure $50 should cover tool and shipping ( 30 for the tool and 20 to ship) It will cost me that much gust to have one of my lower end TQ wrenches fixed/ calibrated and it is only going to get used for my travel box for service.

Shipping should be 8,05 Euro (6.- shipping / 2,05 Insurance) Since the wrench is only 186mm long it fits into a envelope.

Are my eyes deceiving me here? What's wrong with the top part of the gear? It looks like it's missing completely.

The top dark part ? Thats where the sun rays didn`t enlighten the inside
All teeth are where they belong

 

[FiftyCalAl]

I liked my "mysterious ink marking" idea better!lol

 

[Monte]

I liked my "mysterious ink marking" idea better!lol

but nice thought



Some more tools from japan. Chicago pneumatic drill + 1/2" ratchet both made in japan.

 

[superautobacs]

@superautobacs: Do you know what the text next to the small pic with the (hollow ? screw on?) handle says ?

The handles are indeed hollow. Is it screwed on? I'm not sure. All I can say is that the finish is impeccable and IF the handles were welded on you just can't tell.

The text...
In achieving a layout that provides greater gripping power, they went for a larger grip (20mm), while the hollow grip maintains a good weight balance.

The wooden handles are made from lacquered maple and it's stunning to look at for sure!

 

[superautobacs]

Superautobacs,

Thanks for sharing your background information and the link to Nepros' North American website. I will look into Nepros once I acquire some more spending cash.

Dave

Dave, you're welcome.

FYI, the promotional prices offered by KTC for their Nepros line is really an incentive to try them out. The North Americans have it lukcy; people in other parts of the world, including Japan, have to pay an arm and leg for this stuff.

 

[Monte]

thanks for the translation superautobacs !

In the Netherlands is a shop who sells KTC and Nepros but also $$$. Like superautobacs said you pay the lowest price in the US for Nepros tools.


Found this today from Wera.
For what type of screws is this screwdriver ???

 

[Diablo]

Oh my i gotta have one of those.