Tools from the old world

[Hawk321]

Here some brand new Knipex pliers:

The first 2 pliers are extra small.

First is a plierwrench, less than 5" long and it's possible to turn 100% round fasteners with it, paid ~ 50$ for it.

Next one a "normal" Kni[ex cobra, also a special mini edition 150 mm long...great for rounded flare nuts and to crush walnuts and hazelnuts for
Next picture is only to demonstrate the size difference between my cobras.

Now a Gedore 55mm open end wrench...don't need it, bought it for 10 Euro at a fleamarket just for decoration.

 

[superautobacs]

55mm Gedore wrench for 10 Euro -- I'd pick that up, too...just to have one.


The Vids...
I'm guessing he's a guy who loves to come up with new inventions and patent them?
Hawk, I know that Belzer/Bahco ratchet you're talking about...I'd much rather have that!
The pliers one... I'd hate to have my skin/finger pinched... no thanks.

 

[Zrexxer]

For our German contributors here, is Knipex pronounced "ny-pex" or "nee-pex?" Or something completely different?

 

[ATTappman]

For our German contributors here, is Knipex pronounced "ny-pex" or "nee-pex?" Or something completely different?

I'm not German, but I believe it's "Ka-nip-ex," with the emphasis on the first syllable. The "Ka-nip" is pronounced with only a barely detectable pause between the two syllables.

Anyway, this is what a German friend told me, but he'd never heard of the company. He's not much of a tool user.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I pronounce it "nip-ex". I believe the K is silent, like in "knitting".

 

[baubau]

Hallo to everyone here..
i just discovered this thread and forum ..i am just fascinated by craftsmanship and ingenuity of German made tools..

i live in Canada now, i was born in Croatia..my grandfather was a blacksmith and my father an autobody technician , master of metal work..unfortunately, all of our tools, most of them German made, and those old blacksmith hammers, tools, were stolen and destroyed in war...

i am just wondering if anyone could post photos of some of those European made autobody hammers, pullers, stud welders, little shop helpers....i especially love those german made flanging or bordering big, strong pliers...

i am especially interested in electric orbital sanders that they use in europe and how they compare to air sanders....

thank you in advance

 

[Monte]

i would say "kneepex"

here listen to the Knipex video click

 

[Zrexxer]

Ahh Monte saves the day. The video from the company pronounces it "Ka-neepex," with the slight slurring of the first and second syllables as described by ATTappman. The K is not silent.

 

[Monte]

@Hawk:
looks like Santa already visited you ! Tell him he can bring me the same tools !!!


just wanted to show with the videos that not all the fancy new tools are invented in Taiwan ! We can do it here too

@superautobacs: he has a website with more stuff www.technische-patente.de


Regarding the Bahco "squeeze knife" which was discussed earlier here:

Here a pic from the manufacturer/patent holder Alltrade tools: The patent: click There is also a mini version: click

So i guess it`s from China or Taiwan and not sweden.....
saw this knife today at the "Hornbach" home improvement store for 10.89 € or so as "noname" version with a patent number on the knife

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ufzmgjE2RcI&hl=de_DE&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ufzmgjE2RcI&hl=de_DE&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[Monte]

@gathanas1970

here the torque wrench test: page 1 , page 2 , page 3 , page 4 , page 5
"Prüfstandsversuch" = accuracy , "Präzision" = precision, "Bedienung" = handling/operation, "Skala" = scale (The more red steering wheels the better) "Platzierung" = rank , "Preis-Leistung" = price/performance ratio ("Nicht gewertet" = not evaluated)


Regarding the caulking guns which were discussed earlier here

Found this today in a store sold as "LUX" brand for around 15 €:

-100% patented Dripless feature
-18:1 ratio
-Engineered ergonomic construction
-Rotating barrel
-Rugged composite construction
-Reinforced cage for extra strength
-Sharp precision cutter
-Extra long clean out
-Drip/No Drip feature for bead control
-Recommended for use with all caulks, construction adhesives including -polyurethanes
-Concrete masonary and roofing sealants.

Store: www.paintdawg.com HP: http://www.dripless.com/
Patent: click


@baubau:
here are some "Elora" auto body tools, bordering pliers etc.: click
Hammers and anvils etc. from Gedore: click. The largest selection of hammers and dollies also pliers and sets etc. from Picard: click (afaik they make also the hammers etc. for Hazet, Gedore, Stahlwille etc.)

Some body hammers from Peddinghaus / MOB outillage (France)

be sure to check out the Picard hammers !! www.picard-hammer.de

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

@Monte:

Any comments on the question raised a few pages back? Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Edit/PS: Can you compare the new Orbis pliers to the NWS ErgoCombi and the Wiha Inomic series? Which one offers the best ergonomics in your opinion?

yes they mailed back and asked if i`m a dealer or private person, i mailed back and now i wait for their answer... .. i only want to buy a screwdriver though....

Maybe Unior would send you a screwdriver for free if you informed them about you status as a serious tool addict and screwdriver collector. Which type of Unior screwdriver are you interested in particular?
I will hopefully check out the Unior Eurostyle toolbox within the next two weeks.
My experiences with the Austrian Unior company are good.

for 125.- + tax that`s a good deal. If i wouldn`t have one i would buy this one too.....

My dad has an older Gedore torque wrench, probably the basic type (20 - 200 Nm) that is sold under the Carolus label nowadays. I think the current offer is a good opportunity to get my own torque wrench.

BTW, do you know any other manufacturer for pick tools apart from PB? I only found Genius so far.

What's your take on this Vigor socket set? My initial plan was to get a couple of long sockets from Hazet until I stumbled across the Vigor set.

Hmm, I got this case lately. Looks nice, doesn't it? I still have to decide if it were appropriate to post pics of its content before X-mas. What do you think?

Have a nice weekend,

Chreese

 

[gathanas1970]

Hi again!

Here are some photos of my tools

Facom (Ergotwist series):

philips/pozidriv screwdrivers


flat blade variant


Facom (Enduro series):

torx tamper resistant screwdrivers




Both series (ergotwist/enduro) are made in France




Sockets 1/2''
From left to right:
Beta 920A 24mm, Elora NR-771LM 19mm-17mm, Facom S14H (old style non OGV), Elora NR-771LM 13mm, Facom S12H-S11H (OGV profile), Elora NR-771LM 10mm and finally Facom B.S18A1 spark plug socket with rubber insert





MORE TO COME

@Monte:
Thank you very much for posting the torque wrench set!

 

[Hazet]

Okay, so not exactly form the old world, but a good comparison. Here are links to "How is Made" showing Snap-on sockets and wrenches being made. It is interesting to compare them to the Hazet videos. The Snap-on wrenches are bent to achieve the 15 degree curvature on the combination wrenches, while Hazets are actually formed with the curvature from the beginning (I think a superior technique validated by the wrench test posted showing Hazet as the strongest ). Snap-on also seems to be more automated (Hazet still has a man placing the wrenches on the die). You would think that Snap on should be cheaper due to their more automated process .

Snap On Sockets

Snap On Wrenches

 

[Hazet]

Hawk321

Love those miniature Knipex pliers, very nice.

I have not come across too many BETA ratchets on this or other forums. Why is that? They seem to be of a very high quality and are used by none other than Ferrari! I would love to see pictures of their 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 ratchets.

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

Today, I can answer one of the questions I posted yesterday myself.

BTW, do you know any other manufacturer for pick tools apart from PB? I only found Genius so far.

I found a "Hakenset" in the Klann catalogue (KL-0126-301).

@gathanas1970:
Thanks for the pics. You have some nice stuff.

Chreese

 

[superautobacs]

Hazet,

If you do a search, you'll find a thread or two that discussed a person's experience with the newer Beta ratchets, more particularly about a problem with the 2-component handle.
Re. Ferrari using Beta exclusively...I think it's simply because they have been the exclusive sponsor for them and it's only 'right' to continue that relationship.

Re. Hazet/Snap-on wrench production... you're right that there's more automation happening at SO. My guess is that Snap-on needs to fulfill a larger production volume than Hazet does. Some German hand tool makers (some Japanese as well), especially Hazet(?), still maintains a small lot production that relies on human hands in the various stages of the manufacturing process.

 

[Monte]

Servus,

@Monte:

Any comments on the question raised a few pages back? Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

sorry didn`t see the post ! First time i see the Orbis pliers. But the others NWS and Wiha have a more angled head, or rather in case of the Wiha a complete different system. The handles of the Wiha pliers are always parallel and the head is much "lower" a more natural extension of your hand/arm... "inline" you could say... I don`t know if the Orbis pliers have a built in spring and automatically open, i think the NWS pliers have a spring, the Wihas open automatically so it`s even better to work with them. Since the handles always stay parallel they are better to use i think compared to the Orbis, NWS and Grip-on Ergo pliers. But just look at the Inomic propaganda video on youtube I don`t think i will buy the Orbis pliers but the Wiha and NWS yes. I already called NWS for the part no. (1096-69-200 for the Titan finish version) so i can tell you more next year.....

Maybe Unior would send you a screwdriver for free if you informed them about you status as a serious tool addict and screwdriver collector. Which type of Unior screwdriver are you interested in particular?
I will hopefully check out the Unior Eurostyle toolbox within the next two weeks.
My experiences with the Austrian Unior company are good.

no problem i just buy one. I also like to check out new dealers which i don`t know, maybe they have some other nice stuff which i could pick up
I only want one of these "3K" ones:

or maybe these automatic pliers ??

or maybe the version with red/black handles ??

My dad has an older Gedore torque wrench, probably the basic type (20 - 200 Nm) that is sold under the Carolus label nowadays. I think the current offer is a good opportunity to get my own torque wrench.

Yes a very good opportunity ! Your father will say the same ! no more borrowing

BTW, do you know any other manufacturer for pick tools apart from PB? I only found Genius so far.

i posted "Turnus" pick tools a while ago here. The list price is 16,28 + tax for the set. Also available in the US for 29.95$ click.
Witte has a set too (click) and Elora (click) (page 4) . Don`t know about prices though.

You also could pick up these here at the "Praktiker" store for 1,99 €
ot wait for the 20% sale..... ........
That`s what i did....... 3 times..... ............

What's your take on this Vigor socket set? My initial plan was to get a couple of long sockets from Hazet until I stumbled across the Vigor set.

i dunno, never saw them live, but shoud be the same like KS-tools, BGS etc... for the price ok....

edit: but to buy a stahlwille 3/4" set and than these don`t fit !

i would buy the Hazets....

Hmm, I got this case lately. Looks nice, doesn't it? I still have to decide if it were appropriate to post pics of its content before X-mas. What do you think?

Have a nice weekend,

Chreese

It`s a 3/4" socket set ! crazy dude !!! Which one 55/10/6 ??
Show some pics !!



@gathanas1970

Thanks for posting the pics !!! keep em coming !!
I like the black handle Facom drivers ! I need some too !!!

@Hazet:
The wrench production of snap-on is more expensive i think, because they bent the offset into the wrench after the forging, also the inscription (name, size) is stamped into the wrench after the forging while others include it in the die. So the extra production steps cost money (employees). You also can see that they forge 1 wrench (Hazet 2, i guess depends on the size) Also the snapon wrenches must be ground on top,bottom,both sides and box and head while the others e.g. Hazet are not ground on top and bottom (on the beam not, open end yes) Also the drilling machine has to be "loaded" by someone i guess (4 wrenches at a time) then you have to wait and load again. The Snapon wrenches are ground 8 hours in a vibratory finishing machine, Hazet + others with rough finish not as long i think (Hazet shorter , stahlwille longer maybe) . Maybe 1 hr. ??? or less ?? A non perfect surface is also acceptable for these wrenches for Snapon and other fully polished wrenches not.
Regarding the socket production: Hazet implemented a forging robot in early 2008 into their cold forging machine who automatically load the machine with the blanks which come from the sawing machine. Then the robot take the forged socket and put it on a conveyor belt and the sockets travel to the degreasing machine. Here a pic, you can see the robot arm from the "Kuka" robot: (complete story here on page 4)

 

[Hawk321]

Nice Snap-o vids...but now I say more and more, they are overpriced for so much automatic work!

 

[Phang]

Weihnachtsmann is taking a DHL plane from Germany sending this to me, I think it will reach my door step before Christmas

 

[Monte]

@phang:
nice to hear from you again !!
did you finally received the other Hazet sockets ???
The Assistent looks good !
quite expensive freight i guess ...

 

[Phang]

Hi Monte,

I check this thread at least once a week

Chadstoolbox sent the Hazet deep sockets in 2 shipments eventually. He wrote a lengthy email to me explaining the reasons of the slow and partial shipment, also mentioned about the intention of cease taking international orders.

I paid 150Euro for the shipping, the seller needs to disassemble the Assistent cart and send to me in 2 separate boxes. The weight of the cart is around 27kgs.

I bought a Stahlwille steel handle 3/8” quick release ratchet 2 weeks ago and I am impressed by the locking mechanism comparing to my old KTC quick release ratchet. When engaged, it holds and locks the socket/extension solidly without any play between the socket and the 3/8” head regardless of the socket/extension brands that I used

 

[Hazet]

Very nice ratchets . Is the quick release button made out of plastic or is it painted metal? How comfortable is the new handle (green/black) compared to their older black style (i.e. on the fine tooth ratchet)?

[/QUOTE]



To continue the Snap-On videos. Here is one of the ratchets being made.

 

[Phang]

Hi Hazet, I just tested the green button with my magnetic pick up, it is painted metal

I prefer the old style handle because I can rest my fingers on the handle bolster. Other than that, both types feel almost identical to the palm. The black colour rubbery area on the new style handle lost its grip after a few uses with greasy hands.

Oh yes, I bought an Oetiker pliers made by Knipex for those hose clamps on my bike

 

[superautobacs]

Phang,

Nice to hear from you again, indeed.

Nice assistent! It's probably the ideal tool box/cart in your situation/where you live. ...and show us what it looks like all loaded up, too.

Re. The KTC / Stahlwille fit at the square drive... is it because the KTC's ball is not situated at the optimal height or is it because the dimensions of the square is smaller than the Wille'?

 

[Monte]

glad to hear the sockets arrived !
very nice pics phang !!! How do you compare the ratcheting of the fine tooth Stahlwille ratchet vs. the Facom torque wrenches you own ?? (Didn`t hold a fine tooth Wille ratchet in my hands yet). The "ball" of the KTC ratchet looks a little bit big !?? Maybe it dont fully engage in the groove of the sockets ??

btw.: the lock button of the Stahlwille extensions are also made of metal and not plastic like others do


ps: the handle of the KTC ratchet looks like the Tone ratchet here:

 

[Phang]

Alright, I will try to put it in words with my limited linguistic ability

Here are my observations without actually dismantle the ratchet head to look at the mechanisms.

The steel ball on the KTC square drive can be depressed by finger when the quick release button is NOT held down.

On the Wille, the steel ball stays protruding and lock in place when the green quick release button is NOT held down.

When a socket is fitted to the square drive and pull axially, the inward movement of the KTC ball bearing will allow the socket to slide a little.

You will still get movement on the Wille but it is not from the socket/square drive joint.

 

[Phang]

Nice assistent! It's probably the ideal tool box/cart in your situation/where you live. ...and show us what it looks like all loaded up, too.

It will be an eye sore as I have very little Hazet tools, you will see mainly KTC, knipex, pb, FACOM and Stahlwille. Not so appropriate on a Hazet cart

How do you compare the ratcheting of the fine tooth Stahlwille ratchet vs. the Facom torque wrenches you own ??

Facom feels like winding a Swiss made watch and Stahlwille feels like winding a German watch

Buttery smooth vs positive ratcheting

 

[american lockpicker]

Weihnachtsmann is taking a DHL plane from Germany sending this to me, I think it will reach my door step before Christmas

Where can I get one of those at in the USA?

 

[Phang]

There is a very comprehensive and informative discussion on the Hazet Assistent here. I hope you will find an answer there.

The Samba - Hazet Assistent

p/s: I read every words from page 1 to 23 at least 5 times

 

[superautobacs]

Phang, who cares. I got a mishmash of a lot different brands. When I open the drawers, they're not at war with eachother.

Too small of a detent ball is no good; too large of a detent ball is no good either. I'd sway on the latter being better though.



Hey Monte, it looks like "Tony", the ugly duckling has a slightly better looking brother named "Gedory".

 

[gathanas1970]

Hi everybody

Some more tools!

Elora 1/2'' ratchet and 250mm extension




Disassembled mechanism




Combination wrenches


The ACESA ones are made in Spain. The Facom was bought back in February 2005, 10 months before the company was acquired by Stanley but still no COO stamped on the shank!! The Beta has a rough finish that comes out handy when working with dirt/greasy hands.

Open end wrenches


Again the Facom one has no COO marking. It was bought in 2008 so it's probably Taiwan made

 

[gathanas1970]

Facom 250mm adjustable plier. Ergonomic handle design, mechanism without play, a joy to work with!


and finally a true artifact combination pliers with insulation VDE certified



@monte: what is your opinion on Elora compared with other German brands like Hazet, Stahlwille and Gedore?

 

[Monte]

@american lockpicker:
samstagsales has them on their site.
www.asttool.com and www.aeincorporated.com are listed on the Hazet website as dealers.

Facom feels like winding a Swiss made watch and Stahlwille feels like winding a German watch

Buttery smooth vs positive ratcheting

Thanks ! helps a lot !

Hey Monte, it looks like "Tony", the ugly duckling has a slightly better looking brother named "Gedory".

Beauty is only skin deep - it's what's inside that counts
literally

@gathanas1970:
nice collection of tools !!
Elora is hard to find here in my city , one store only orders them on demand but they don`t deal with private customers anyway other companies only sell to shipyards/ship chandler etc. I only have a bit-socket set from them so far. "Moose" here on this board has Elora wrenches and he seems to be happy with them. I personally don`t think there will be much difference between the few german manufacturers in terms of material quality, more in terms of finish and fitment. (i.e. 1/4" dr. sockets from Heyco, Matador and Gedore wobble , while Stahlwille and Hazet sockets fit A1 ).

Facom: if it don`t say "France" on the tool then it will be from somewhere else i guess. Maybe they moved the production to USAG/Pastorino in Italy before Stanley took over and then to Taiwan ??

 

[wolpi]

i had some elora,
monte, was heißtn spurstangenkopfabzieher? which was equal to the hazet...but the hazet broke after the first attempt! ok, the elora broke before! but i had the elora some years.

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

@Monte:

Thanks for your input on the pliers.

First time i see the Orbis pliers.

It's hard to believe that I found it before you did.

i think the NWS pliers have a spring, the Wihas open automatically so it`s even better to work with them.

Yes, the ErgoCombi definitely has a spring - an "opening spring" as NWS calls it.
Wiha Inomic pliers (the VDE long nose pliers are my favorite) are already on my wish list.

I already called NWS for the part no. (1096-69-200 for the Titan finish version) so i can tell you more next year.....

ErgoCombi flyers should be available. In fact, I got one from an Austrian dealer a few weeks ago. There are three types of ErgoCombi pliers:
1096 69
1096 49
1096 49 VDE
I just emailed the dealer and asked about price and availability of the 1096 49 VDE version.

Yes a very good opportunity ! Your father will say the same ! no more borrowing

My father doesn't mind if I borrow his torque wrench. He is allowed to borrow my tools (ok, not all of them ) as well. Nevertheless, I plan to purchase the Gedore jubilee torque wrench.

Ah, yes, I forgot about the Turnus picks and hooks. Thanks for the reminder. They look fine. I'm looking for a dealer.
They are tools, thus function primarily matters but the color of the Witte picks' handles - I don't like it.

You also could pick up these here at the "Praktiker" store for 1,99 €
ot wait for the 20% sale..... ........
That`s what i did....... 3 times..... ............

As far as I know, Praktiker closed their stores in Austria - at least the one in my area.

i dunno, never saw them live, but shoud be the same like KS-tools, BGS etc... for the price ok....

edit: but to buy a stahlwille 3/4" set and than these don`t fit !

Ok, I'll sell the Stahlwille 3/4" set and buy a cheaper set that matches with Vigor sockets.
Maybe long 1/2" sockets from Vigor (the set with the toolbox inlay) and long 3/8" sockets from Hazet would be a reasonable option. Now I need to decide between 6 point and 12 point. My standard size 3/8" sockets are 6 point so long 3/8" 12 point sockets would make sense, I guess but the 6 point type is more tempting.

It`s a 3/4" socket set ! crazy dude !!! Which one 55/10/6 ??

Yep, that it is.

@Phang:

Congrats on the Assistent toolbox. I like it a lot. I think this is one of the tools that really every serious tool junkie must have.
Many thanks for the link to the samba website. I enjoyed the read.

Regards,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

@wolpi:
"Ball joint extractor". The older Hazet pulling tools/ball joint seperators etc. were supplied by "Kukko" , the newer ones are supplied by Gedore. What did you do to make them break ??? Normally tools bend before they break ...

Servus,

@Monte:

Thanks for your input on the pliers.
It's hard to believe that I found it before you did.

I mostly only check the manufacturers websites. Unfortunately they forget to update the sites regularly.....

My father doesn't mind if I borrow his torque wrench. He is allowed to borrow my tools (ok, not all of them ) as well. Nevertheless, I plan to purchase the Gedore jubilee torque wrench.

with your growing tool collection your father will start borrowing tools from you soon !

Ah, yes, I forgot about the Turnus picks and hooks. Thanks for the reminder. They look fine. I'm looking for a dealer.
They are tools, thus function primarily matters but the color of the Witte picks' handles - I don't like it..

yeah the Wittes look cheap somehow. The Matco version looks good.

As far as I know, Praktiker closed their stores in Austria - at least the one in my area..

not a great loss......

Ok, I'll sell the Stahlwille 3/4" set and buy a cheaper set that matches with Vigor sockets...

yup good idea !! Sell it to me !! 250.- € ??

Maybe long 1/2" sockets from Vigor (the set with the toolbox inlay) and long 3/8" sockets from Hazet would be a reasonable option. Now I need to decide between 6 point and 12 point. My standard size 3/8" sockets are 6 point so long 3/8" 12 point sockets would make sense, I guess but the 6 point type is more tempting.

you need both

Yep, that it is.

what did you pay ??? 499,95 € ??

i want one too !!!! but the price......

just saw this on ebay UK ...199 pound

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

with your growing tool collection your father will start borrowing tools from you soon !

He already did. But he only uses what he is allowed to use, in other words, tools he's familiar with. For example, he has never used a jointer/planer so he just asks me for help if he needs planed wood.

yeah the Wittes look cheap somehow. The Matco version looks good.

That's true but I'd rather go with Turnus, Klann or even PB because I assume that Matco is hard to find here.

you need both

Both - the Hazet 3/8" sockets and the Vigor 1/2" sockets or the Hazet 3/8" sockets in both 6 and 12 point?

what did you pay ??? 499,95 € ??

Nope, fortunately not. It was "only" approx. EUR 351 (with VAT).

Regarding the "finish issue" raised here:

BTW, what's your take on this new - never used - socket:

Is this finish to be tolerated/accepted in your opinion?

I sent the complete content of the 3/4" set to Stahlwille. Short version: According to Stahlwille, this finish is normal and quality is fine. The inside of the sockets is treated with a special coating (lacquer) as it's technically impossible to chromium-plate it. The spots I was worried about are the result of lacquer that was applied to areas that had been chromium-plated before.

just saw this on ebay UK ...199 pound

If the shipping costs are affordable, just go for it.

Happy tool-hunting,

Chreese

 

[superautobacs]

Anybody know how much this set/open stock goes for?

 

[Monte]

Anybody know how much this set/open stock goes for?

The website from where you have the pic says 25€ for the set click
But can`t find the set and wrenches on their website !?
Toptul has something like this but as combination wrench

 

[wolpi]

@wolpi:
"Ball joint extractor". The older Hazet pulling tools/ball joint seperators etc. were supplied by "Kukko" , the newer ones are supplied by Gedore. What did you do to make them break ??? Normally tools bend before they break ...

i've given it some torque!
no, the real reasen, i had to seperate the joint balls of a crashed bmw..i've crashed the elora, then the new hazet! but they were complet equal besides the name. i don't think it was the fault of the product....
both hat a bolt which combined the 2 pieces......this thing broke.