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Tools from the old world

Matt XYZ

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Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Messages
468
Location
Germany
My local OBI started carrying Gedore Red line tools along with the recently added Knipex section. I was very disappointed to see that the wrenches were made in India, and they looked like it. Some for the pliers were Germany, the adjustable wrenches were China, and the ratchets and torque wrenches were made in Taiwan.

I found this press announcement from last spring, apparently Gedore replaced Carolus brand with the entry level Gedore Red.

https://de.gedore.com/en/company/press-area/press-releases/gedore-red-new-product-line/

The quality was average at best so buyer beware if you are ordering from Amazon.de or another source and aren't aware of the two lines of Gedore (pro level and the new entry level Red)
 
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JBH

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Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
811
Weidmuller Stripax

USAG 146

Phoenix Contact Quick Wirefox 6


Interesting. Which one do you like best, and for what kind of wire jacket?

Do you know who makes the Wirefox? That’s not the rebadged Pressmaster Embla I’ve seen from Phoenix Contact previously.
 

JBH

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
811
My KC Tool Black Friday order came in, including the Gedore pliers wrench. It is not quite what I expected.

Gedore water pump pliers are lithe and sleek compared to Cobras, but their PW is quite a bit stockier. The handles are also set markedly wider apart.

f8223014893b13ee845284ca0de212c9.jpg

Also, unlike the waterpump and pictures, no sweet blue button. The button also sticks out pretty awkwardly. I wonder if that’s as they’re supposed to be.

4b62fc9403abe4fef4f5034b552a5d01.jpg

Here’s a shot of 3/4 of the world’s 250mm pliers wrenches (I don’t have Wiha). VBW (Stahlwille) has the oddest looking jaws but the best balance of the three. VBW handle shape and spacing also suits me best.

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And the three jaws.

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mr.lemons

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
2,191
Location
UK
Any idea who manufactures these? Made in Germany. Would be interested if anyone else rebrands them but with dipped handles.

s-l1600.jpg
 

Tonyuk

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
1,539
Location
Scotland
Any idea who manufactures these? Made in Germany. Would be interested if anyone else rebrands them but with dipped handles.

s-l1600.jpg

Probably NWS.

Haven't seen many Knipex re-brands, but NWS re-brand for a few different companies (Irwin for example)
 

anetode

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
120
Any idea who manufactures these? Made in Germany. Would be interested if anyone else rebrands them but with dipped handles.

s-l1600.jpg

Orbis/Will. Newark/Farnell's Duratool is also one of the few ways you can find their ESD electronics pliers.
TL1204807-40.jpg
 

CplusF

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
12
Location
Istanbul
Any idea who manufactures these? Made in Germany. Would be interested if anyone else rebrands them but with dipped handles.

s-l1600.jpg

From Orbis Will factory but using Japanese made Marvel base tool. No idea why they are laser etched “made in Germany” though.
 

anetode

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
120
From Orbis Will factory but using Japanese made Marvel base tool. No idea why they are laser etched “made in Germany” though.

It really is made in Germany. The design might have originated from elsewhere, but Knipex/Orbis definitely forge their own version.
 

CplusF

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
12
Location
Istanbul
It really is made in Germany. The design might have originated from elsewhere, but Knipex/Orbis definitely forge their own version.

My information relating to this item's origin was from the own sales reps of Orbis Will but dates back to 2 or 3 years ago. You are right if within this period of 2-3 years, they started to forge their own version.

Marvel cutters are of very high quality and Renssteig (which manufacture Knipex and Orbis Will cable shears) are as well. So, either way it is a good quality tool :)
 

anetode

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
120
My information relating to this item's origin was from the own sales reps of Orbis Will but dates back to 2 or 3 years ago. You are right if within this period of 2-3 years, they started to forge their own version.

Sorry, I stand corrected. Kind of hard to believe that they'd go through the trouble of shipping over a variant of a tool they already make, but I suppose there must be a good business case for it.

Gedore appears to use Rennsteig's shears as well, though they've recently introduced their own Austrian-made version of the shears + stripping curve variant.
 

Dave455

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Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
5,796
Location
Sussex, England
This drawer is all Facom and PB Swiss, except for the homemade custom punches that will fill the empty bin.


Some of those Facom punches look pretty hefty!

This was traditionally the sort of thing that Facom excelled at. Decent quality, predominantly French made, tools, often with some novel design features, but always stylish and always very usable!
 
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scubadoober

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Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
511
A small German tool haul. Some from KC tools and some from Amazon. It is almost criminal what I got the stahlwille 220's for.
 

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mrspeed

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
473
A couple new hammers, both made in Germany.

The red head was supposedly Matador, yet it doesn't say Matador anywhere in it. It does have 3 other logos on the handle though, Eduard Luckhaus, R. Egon Cordt, and Carl Blombach. Anyone have any idea what these are?

The Bahco had no COO on the hammer, but came in a bag marked Made in Germany.

I like the feel of the Matador hammer. The handle is nicely contoured and it feels well balanced.

The Bahco feels like it's a bit too weighty at the base of the handle, which makes it a little harder to swing. It also has an uneven finish. The laquer feels too thick and it's not well sanded in a couple areas.

IMG_20181214_212649.jpgIMG_20181214_212658~2.jpgIMG_20181214_212723.jpegIMG_20181214_212704~2.jpeg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using The Garage Journal mobile app
 

mrspeed

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Joined
Apr 19, 2017
Messages
473
Also ordered a couple tack pullers. The first Heyco puller I received had a manufacturing defect, so they sent me another. Doesn't inspire much confidence that the first made it off the line.

The Rennsteig feels nicer and seems better made overall.

IMG_20181214_212807.jpgIMG_20181214_212832.jpegIMG_20181214_212847.jpeg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using The Garage Journal mobile app

Edit: By tack pullers, I mean door panel removers, wish are basically larger versions of tack pullers.
 
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scubadoober

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Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
511
Detailed pics of 220s please!:thumbup:

Sure thing. These are a great alternative to the extra long zero offset wrenches. They are a 15* offset but really long as you can see from the pictures. I became a big fan of the 23 series wrenches, but I might pick a few more of these 220 wrenches. I will update after using them.
 

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Flash21

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Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
2,173
Thank you scuba! Glad you like the 23s too, those look very versitile. Does the 23 series have the same bean profile as the Open-Box 14s?
 

plumber84

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Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
249
Location
England
King **** England 12”
Garrington England 12”
And Dowidat 12” Germany Shifters
 

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plumber84

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Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
249
Location
England
Footprint pipe wrench England
Monument copper pipe cutter England
Snail-Brand “Q” auto wrench England
Rothenberger olive cutter England
And Gedore adjustable wrench South Africa, PB-Swiss screwdrivers Switzerland,
Crown cabinet screwdriver Sheffield and a Union nut driver “made in Europe “
 

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scubadoober

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Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
511
Thank you scuba! Glad you like the 23s too, those look very versitile. Does the 23 series have the same bean profile as the Open-Box 14s?

I don't have any 14 series but I would assume the profile is the same. Just for reference in the comparison shot: craftsman 17mm, hazet 600N 17mm, stahlwille 23 17x19mm, stahlwille 220 12x14mm, stahlwille 220 18x19.
 

mr.lemons

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Oct 24, 2017
Messages
2,191
Location
UK
^^ The Stahlwille 220s have 'High Performance Quality' written on the back. Hadn't noticed that before. Seams a bit daft to bother tooling something so generic and kind of meaningless on there. Maybe it sounded better in German. Still awesome spanners though.
 

anetode

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Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
120
attachment.php


Huh, they've redesigned the Wiha PicoFinish drivers.

screwdrivers-260_P_K7_PicoFinish_Set_KatC.jpg


So just a larger spinning top?
 

scubadoober

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Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
511
^^ The Stahlwille 220s have 'High Performance Quality' written on the back. Hadn't noticed that before. Seams a bit daft to bother tooling something so generic and kind of meaningless on there. Maybe it sounded better in German. Still awesome spanners though.

HPQ seems to be some sort of specification alloy for aerospace. It appears they target it more toward the products used on planes and not the common metric version ie. 130a/sp not 13, 230a not 23, but all of the 220 and socket lines. Stahlwille references some DIN, SAE, MIL, SBAC, MS specifications, but really only says the alloy contains no Cadmium so it can be used on titanium fasteners. I am not going to dig through all those journals, but I bet it has to do with military/aerospace contracts.

"STAHLWILLE HPQ sockets are manufactured from selected tough steel alloys. The result: they are extremely durable.

HPQ sockets are free of cadmium and are therefore suitable for use on titanium alloy parts and titanium fasteners as used especially in the aerospace industry, where safety is a crucial fact"
 
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SRSemenza

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Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
616
It seems Henry C. Schaerf was a company from New York.


not much more than freddddan :)
SKG still offers VSM drivers and Hazet offered VSM drivers in the past too...

000773-JfO8CN4A.jpg

4621_fot_012_2.jpg

csm_124_b0c429c248.jpg












btw. screwdrivers...: just saw this Gedore screwdriver set at Bauhaus for only 17,95 :)
28282382pm.jpg


Hi,

I am trying to get Wera 345 Kraftform VSM series in sizes 3, 2,1 . I wonder if you have any sources?

Thanks,
Seth

BTW, your PM inbox is full.
 

mr.lemons

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Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
2,191
Location
UK
HPQ seems to be some sort of specification alloy for aerospace. It appears they target it more toward the products used on planes and not the common metric version ie. 130a/sp not 13, 230a not 23, but all of the 220 and socket lines. Stahlwille references some DIN, SAE, MIL, SBAC, MS specifications, but really only says the alloy contains no Cadmium so it can be used on titanium fasteners. I am not going to dig through all those journals, but I bet it has to do with military/aerospace contracts.

"STAHLWILLE HPQ sockets are manufactured from selected tough steel alloys. The result: they are extremely durable.

HPQ sockets are free of cadmium and are therefore suitable for use on titanium alloy parts and titanium fasteners as used especially in the aerospace industry, where safety is a crucial fact"

Wow ok. So not meaningless at all then thanks. Please excuse my ignorance. Bit of googling shows that using Cadmium plated tools or fasteners causes titanium "embrittlement" which may result in cracks. Bit more complicated than that, takes heat and time but that's the jist of it. HPQ® :bowdown:
 

mr.lemons

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Oct 24, 2017
Messages
2,191
Location
UK
^^ Looked up 'Tucker Fasteners' of Birmingham England.

tuckers.jpg


Factory closed. Company now owned by Stanley :Twitch:
 

anetode

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Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
120
attachment.php


Picked up these two pliers wrenches from KC Tool's Black Friday. After spending a few minutes playing around with them I noticed some worthwhile differences. Spoiler: the Knipex wins.

Although the Gedore has slightly less side to side play, it's default arrangement (no pressure applied) has the jaws more than a millimeter off (as seen below):

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Now in and of itself that's really no big deal, it's not really going to adversely affect functioning and we've all seen much worse. However in comparison, the default alignment of the Knipex is nigh on perfect (though this is a little tough to verify from the angle of the photo):

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As for who has the widest opening, here they are at the maximum setting with handles together. Knipex has maybe a fraction of a millimeter on the Gedore, but they're basically identical:

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With the handles spread apart we get to compare the widest possible opening spans for the two. Here the Gedore has maybe a 1-2 millimeter lead:

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What really compromises the functionality and appeal of Gedore's implementation is an odd arrangement at the cam and spring loaded adjustment mechanism. Below you can see that while the Knipex has basically a mirror of the front button attached to the spring lever on its backside, the Gedore has these two small vertical extensions of the button which are visible from the backside. These require the Gedore to have the handles pressed together to allow for the button to align with the vertical slots for the bumps, else the button may not be depressed.

attachment.php


I'm sure there must be some very good engineering reason for this alteration in the basic design, but the whys and hows escape my tired Friday night brain.

Note also that when the handles are maximally spread apart from each other, the cam in the Gedore rotates a little further along it's cutout than the Knipex, and just prior to hitting the maximum spread point the upper cam jumps in to push the jaws of the plier back towards together by a really tiny but noticeable amount. So as you spread the handles the Gedore's jaws get wider and wider, but then contract by a millimeter once at their furthest point away from each other; almost a kind of "backlash".

This would be easier to demonstrate in a video, but here's a simple picture of the two pliers with their handles spread open as far as they go. Note the position of the two cam protrusions with respect to their cutouts.

attachment.php


These minutiae aside, both are solid useful tools. I'm going to throw the Gedore in my bag and keep the Knipex in my home box. Maybe I'll have a different opinion of the two after they've been put through the paces.
 

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