Tools from the old world

[american lockpicker]

Lockpicker,

Do you know if this Petzl Myo XP is made in France?

Yes, I believe so. http://www.brightguy.com/products/Petzl_MYO_XP_E83P2.php

 

[american lockpicker]

Heres tonights haul. I was at the mall and couldn't leave without buying a few things...

 

[Monte]

@redsky:
I think the best pliers you will find here are still www.Knipex.de , www.Gedore.com and www.rj-zangen.de (Stahlwille,VBW,R.Jung)

Some Wiha pliers are supplied by NWS (these here: click (minus the "quickfix" pliers which are a product of "Orbis" ))

"Orbis Speedy"

@chreese:
Do you have a link for the Fischer files ?

I bet the Hazet hammers are supplied by Picard or so...And I also would prefer a Gedore "Rotband Plus".

I don`t have any Heyco tools except a 6 piece 1/4" dr. female Torx socket set (E4-E10) but some more are still on my wish list.
Especially i like the sockets with their "Heyco" design

ps: please post some pics of your Festool tools (sander, vacuum etc.)

@superautobacs:
nice haul for 2$ ! you **** It looks like new
List price is 11,65 € + 19% v.a.t. The Stahlwille version would cost 17.-€ + v.a.t.
I wonder how this wrench made it "over the pond" ?

@american lockpicker:
nice wenger swiss army 70 multi tool !! The deburring tool seems to be from Noga

i like this one
with 87 tools

do you hold the "Evogrip" already in your hands ??

 

[maxipouce]

@maxipouce:
thanks for posting the catalogs !!

How do people in France compare Facom to other french companies like SAM or MOB and french tools compared with brands like Beta, USAG, Stahlwille, etc. (Proxxon, Unior, KS-Tools, Kraftwerk, King Tony...).[QUOTE/]
A facom search on ebay returns 30 pages.
A SAM search returns 6 pages.
Facom is known by everyone who has touched a screw
Sam is known by people who have some mechanical or professionnal knowledge because they may have some needs that facom won't fulfill.
Same thing for mob.
The problem of sam is that they also made medium duty tools ( 3 star basic spanners for plumbing...) which were carrying a lower or no warranty and i think that has created a misunderstanding.

Facom also uses some cultural misunderstanding; some dumba**** still believe that power tools or even consumables have a full lifetime warranty.
A former retailer explained to me that once somebody came to have one hacksaw blade replaced ....
Another thing; every town that has more than 2000 inhabitants has a hardware store that retails facom.

As the replacement delays are crazy (2 months) some people get tired of this and look for other brands no matter the origin provided they have a lifetime warranty and quick replacement. (I get my NORAUTO tools replaced in 2 weeks).

I once looked through all pages of this post in a french car forum: click but i didnt translate everything so i dont know if Facom still is considered the French "Snap-On"...QUOTE[/]

Yes they are they are still considered that way but only a few people are pissed by the lower technicity and higher bubblegum marketing (they made a tool chest called "truck" with two vertical exhaust pipes as on the kenworths, they now have a line of cans such as tire repair, anti seize,windshield cleaner...)
The quality (as far as I am interested -> strength) is still there and when i think that the bolt may be stronger than the wrench I still put a Facom on the job just to check if the quality is still what i expect.

And do the french Facom customers know that a lot of tools are outsourced now like the ratchets from Italy, the "440" series wrenches from Taiwan (and others too) or don`t they know and don`t care ?QUOTE[/]

They know a bit about the european outsourcing which is quite old but you can be sure they don't have a clue when it comes to the taiwanese products.

I hope I will be able to take some photos of fake facom tools soon.

 

[Monte]

@maxipouce:
thank you for your detailed answer !
Do you have a pic of the "Facom Kenworth truck tool box"

This box is pretty cool imho

Do I get the Mustang for free when i buy the box ?

Lifetime warranty for a hacksaw blade that would be great !!



Do you know these SAM torque wrenches:

Because they look like the Gedore wrenches

or this one

SAM

Gedore

ps: The new SAM screwdrivers look nice



This "Norauto" ratchet looks like "Genius" tools ratchet
Norauto (quite expensive - 39.90€) Genius

Do you have any pics of Facom 500 locking pliers and "151" ratchets from "back in the days" like from your 1968 catalog and a pic of how the locking pliers and ratchets look before like in your 1956 catalog ?


Are there any power tool manufacturers in france ?? I only know www.metland.fr But I don`t know if they`re a manufacturer or just importer


ps: Do you have one of these ?:

 

[maxipouce]

I do not have any photos of the facom toolbox named "truck" I did not even take the leaflet at the dealership when I saw that.
If you negotiate very well you may have a 10% rebate on the box if you buy the mustang, that's how an incredibly good deal sounds in Paris... I don't talk to them anymore.
The real SAM torque wrenches are the dynastop series which are still available I think you can recognize them by their cylindrical attachments for the bits.the system consists in a flexible bar with a cursor that changes the starting point of the flexion and then the torque when the wrench clicks.
http://www.sam-outillage.fr/catalogue-sam?view=cataloguesam&fm=9366&fam1=3&aFam2[]=17&nNum_PM=4

ps: The new SAM screwdrivers look nice

I think it's the "hole in the handle" effect which seems to be appreciated around here.

For those who do not know norauto; it is a French equivalent of the american "autozone" they sell and mount wear parts for cars( pads rotors exhaust pipes, oil changes...) and they have an array of homebranded tools which are made by by a good taiwanese manufacturer, they do very fine provided that you do not try to loosen an exhaust manifold with a 1/4 T-handle .

s151 in 1956!!!! You should stop tuning engines by smelling the tailpipe
The only ratchets available were the 36 teeth s150 ratchet or the s155 racheting attachment

I do not know metland nor the psp group, given today's economy you can bet they just import or stick labels.

I do not have a "madame101", these are quite heavy and now expensive if they are in a good cosmetic condition.

photos;
1968 1/2 drives
1968 locking pliers
1956 1/2 drives
1956 locking pliers

 

[redsky49]

@redsky:
I think the best pliers you will find here are still www.Knipex.de , www.Gedore.com and www.rj-zangen.de (Stahlwille,VBW,R.Jung)

Some Wiha pliers are supplied by NWS (these here: click (minus the "quickfix" pliers which are a product of "Orbis" ))

"Orbis Speedy"

Thanks Monte. It's not the end of the world. Just a bit disappointed. I think that several US manufacturers are as good or better. The only standout seems to be the Knipex, at least until I check out the ones you list above

 

[GuidoK]

Some worn 1/2" allen socket from Gedore.
Pretty old, I guess late '50's early '60's (my dad bought them back then).

I still don't know if I should throw them away (I find things like these all the time under the dirt when I clean up the garage). Old, worn, replaced long time ago...

 

[american lockpicker]

Monte do you have any tools from East Germany(DDR)?

 

[wolpi]

I do not have any photos of the facom toolbox named "truck" I did not even take the leaflet at the dealership when I saw that.
If you negotiate very well you may have a 10% rebate on the box if you buy the mustang, that's how an incredibly good deal sounds in Paris... I don't talk to them anymore.
The real SAM torque wrenches are the dynastop series which are still available I think you can recognize them by their cylindrical attachments for the bits.the system consists in a flexible bar with a cursor that changes the starting point of the flexion and then the torque when the wrench clicks.
http://www.sam-outillage.fr/catalogue-sam?view=cataloguesam&fm=9366&fam1=3&aFam2[]=17&nNum_PM=4


Ich schreibs mal in deutsch: die gedore teile findest überall. auch mit verschiedenen namen.

aber hast mal die würth werkstattwagen gesehen in der guten ausführung?

monte übersetz du, ich versuchs morgen oder montag mal


I think it's the "hole in the handle" effect which seems to be appreciated around here.

For those who do not know norauto; it is a French equivalent of the american "autozone" they sell and mount wear parts for cars( pads rotors exhaust pipes, oil changes...) and they have an array of homebranded tools which are made by by a good taiwanese manufacturer, they do very fine provided that you do not try to loosen an exhaust manifold with a 1/4 T-handle .

s151 in 1956!!!! You should stop tuning engines by smelling the tailpipe
The only ratchets available were the 36 teeth s150 ratchet or the s155 racheting attachment

I do not know metland nor the psp group, given today's economy you can bet they just import or stick labels.

I do not have a "madame101", these are quite heavy and now expensive if they are in a good cosmetic condition.

photos;
1968 1/2 drives
1968 locking pliers
1956 1/2 drives
1956 locking pliers

Ich schreibs mal in deutsch: die gedore teile findest überall. auch mit verschiedenen namen.

aber hast mal die würth werkstattwagen gesehen in der guten ausführung?

monte übersetz du, ich versuchs morgen oder montag mal

to the box besides the mustang...nice looking...but not worth the money

 

[Monte]

A tool box with exhaust pipes could look strange...
I prefer the Facom No. 1000 roller chest la déesse how i could it now
Paris is always expensive so i probably wouldn`t buy a toolbox there
The SAM torque wrench is very exotic, never saw this somewhere else. But the Gedore-SAM wrenches look good too
Without the hole in the SAM screwdriver handle i still would be interested. Unfortunately "exotic tools" like Facom, SAM, MOB and also the spanish tools are difficult or impossible to find here in germany.

ps: these look nice:

The metland power tools have a "import look"..... PSP/Peugeot ? i think they make these pepper and spice mills: click And also some tools i guess, on their website they say they have a plant in "Quingey" for saws and a forge in "Molsheim". http://www.peugeot-muller.com/Cms/38-the-firm.html

s151 in 1956!!!! You should stop tuning engines by smelling the tailpipe

no S.151 in 1964

Thanks for posting the catalog pics !! I wonder why the catalog page above mention the 500 locking pliers and the patent in 1960 while in your catalog from 1956 they already show the 500 locking pliers and the catalog say: "patented in france and abroad"

Here some locking pliers from japan which look french: (Roux/MOB style - probably made by Roux - now by Dolex) click


@redsky:
just buy the Knipex and be happy


@GuidoK:
maybe they fit now into SAE fasteners
Do you have any tools "made in holland" maybe from Beargrip or Nooitgedagt ?


@americanlockpicker:
yes but only these 2 wrenches so far. More when the flea market season starts

"WFR Radebeul" open end wrench

DDR = GDR

The retail price was forged into. All prices were set by the government
"EVP" (=retail price) 1,45 (Mark)

"Smalcalda" deep offset box wrench

"TGL" = "DIN" in the GDR

@wolpi:
Wolpi wants to say that you`ll find the Gedore torque wrenches everywhere also with differents names/brands on them.

ps: no i don`t know the Wurth tool boxes

 

[Monte]

Some new tools for 2010

The tools should be available around march 2010.


New small "pocket" tin snips "D15A" from Bessey. Only 18 cm long

New optimized bar profile also now for the other Bessey clamps

Folding ruler with built in light from www.leuchtmeter.de

Wera "screw gripper" screw holding device for screwdrivers and L-keys/T-keys/wrenches etc.

Athlet pivoting bit holder

New Athlet L-key box

Wiha ErgoStar L-key holder

Wiha slimTECHNOLOGY VDE screwdrivers with slim blades

Wiha Collector

Wiha also has new circlip pliers with "Magic Tips" which holds the circlip through grooves in the tips: click
(then click on "Discover our product innovations 2010")


The new Wiha logo:

 

[maxipouce]

I went shopping this afternoon, and did not forget my camera, as I was driving by I took a shot of one of the automotive parts supplier I go to, the anti corporate paranoids may appreciate its name (photo1).
Then I went to MrBRICOLAGE (understand mister diy photo2) so that superautobacs can see that there are real hardware stores in that country I would compare them to Lowe's in Usa or BAUHAUS in germany the shop is clean and designed to target the lower to upper middle class, 60% of the area of the shop is dedicated to women or "modern men" (decoration paint) where the floor is painted, the remaining 40% are dedicated to real men and rough girls (handtools concrete mixers gardening tools) the floor is not painted here and the temperature is lower.

photo3 a mob/talabot section
photo4 facom and bost screwdrivers
photo5 MrBRICOLAGE screwdrivers
photo6 facom spanners in individual antitheft packages some Mrbricolage too
photo7 some other screwdrivers from facom, bost, mrbricolage,, wolfcraft clamps and revex clamps (which i like)

 

[maxipouce]

The responsible of this area was surpirsed to see me taking photos of everything so we talked talked and talked (early century sewing machines, weaver jacks, not so "pro" bosch blue powertools) and I came back to my mission of the day;
Photo1 a lower view of the last photo of the previous post
photo2 an "outifrance" vise, I would rate it as imported but the finish was good (134€ for 150mm jaws)
Photo3 some stanley and guess who's missing??
photo4 yummmy stanley's finish, the photo does not show it but the surface is that rough on the flat area also
photo5 and 6 look at what you can "test" on nowadays tools that reminds me of some auto journalists that judge the car on the touuch of the dashboard , I think we are suffering a silent gay invasion.
photo7 a "tête de gondole" understand "end of the shelves" which is a strategic place to promote products in stores.

 

[maxipouce]

I forgot something

 

[maxipouce]

photo1 an aeg tools display
photo2 "cheap" facom boxes
photo3 air accessories (their favourite brand used to be lacme and now it is mecafer with nearly the same products, in appearance though.)
photo4 metabo saws
photo5 good old karcher
photo6 various air compressor, and a booster/compressor combination by gys named gyspack air 400.
photo7 good thing about mob; spare handles in most diy stores.

 

[maxipouce]

something is wrong with attachments

 

[GuidoK]

@GuidoK:
maybe they fit now into SAE fasteners
Do you have any tools "made in holland" maybe from Beargrip or Nooitgedagt ?

yep, some old allen wrenches (funny enough in SAE)

Couldn't find any nooitgedagt, but there probably some chisels or saws around....and if not definately some antique ice skates

still....The netherlands doesn't have a rich toolmanufacturing past like Germany or England.

....turns out I only live 15km away from Beargrip headquaters

http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=d&sour...rftr:h,6212221545901746245,52.760498,6.340688

Not shure about the social background from beargrips street adress: "Voor de Blanken" translated (among others): For the Whites...

 

[mik641]

These arent really old world but still interesting.

one is a open ended fuller japan spanner with KTC stamped into the raised panel aswell.

The others are two box end spanners with 'bedford vanadium' written on them. Made in england, out of a bedford truck or something?

 

[american lockpicker]

@GuidoK Other than rulers are any tools at all still made in Holland?

 

[dede2897234]

Some new tools for 2010

The tools should be available around march 2010.

Wiha slimTECHNOLOGY VDE screwdrivers with slim blades

Wiha Collector

Wiha also has new circlip pliers with "Magic Tips" which holds the circlip through grooves in the tips: click
(then click on "Discover our product innovations 2010")


The new Wiha logo:

Monte,

Thanks for sharing the new Wiha hand tools coming out later this year. I would imagine that the Wiha slim insulated screwdrivers will be a big hit with electricians. I personally like Wiha's circlip pliers with "Magic Tips". I am surprised Wiha beat out all their competitors in incorporating such a simple and useful feature with their circlip pliers.


Dave

 

[dede2897234]

I went shopping this afternoon, and did not forget my camera, as I was driving by I took a shot of one of the automotive parts supplier I go to, the anti corporate paranoids may appreciate its name (photo1).
Then I went to MrBRICOLAGE (understand mister diy photo2) so that superautobacs can see that there are real hardware stores in that country I would compare them to Lowe's in Usa or BAUHAUS in germany the shop is clean and designed to target the lower to upper middle class, 60% of the area of the shop is dedicated to women or "modern men" (decoration paint) where the floor is painted, the remaining 40% are dedicated to real men and rough girls (handtools concrete mixers gardening tools) the floor is not painted here and the temperature is lower.

photo3 a mob/talabot section
photo4 facom and bost screwdrivers
photo5 MrBRICOLAGE screwdrivers
photo6 facom spanners in individual antitheft packages some Mrbricolage too
photo7 some other screwdrivers from facom, bost, mrbricolage,, wolfcraft clamps and revex clamps (which i like)

Maxipouce,

Thanks for sharing the pictures, especially the interior of the "MrBricolage" store. A trip there for me would be like a kid in a candy store!

Does "CIA" offer more of the expensive Facom hand tools versus the cheaper ones at "MrBricolage"?

Does "CIA" stock more models of the Facom ratchets, sockets, and wrenches versus "MrBricolage"?

Does "CIA" stock the European made Facom hand tools versus "MrBricolage" stocking the Taiwanese products?

Are the shelves at "MrBricolage" constantly replenished with new Facom hand tools or do the Facom hand tools sit there a long time due to the high prices?


Thanks,

Dave

 

[RIVERWEST AUTO]

pivoting bit holder is slick!

 

[american lockpicker]

Those Wiha screwdrivers look nice. As long as they are made in Germany I'll get a set.

 

[RIVERWEST AUTO]

Those Wiha screwdrivers look nice. As long as they are made in Germany I'll get a set.

nazi or what? german-american.....made in germanic america like snap on? kenosha wisconsin,..

 

[american lockpicker]

nazi or what? german-american.....made in germanic america like snap on? kenosha wisconsin,..

NO(also concerning my avitar I looked for a GB and FR one first but couldn't find any also I previously I have had a USA and Canadian one up I promise I mean nothing political by it) I just like the quality also the Wiha that isn't made in Germany(and some that is...apparently)is overpriced **** and I'm not going to pay for the name.

I switched to something more neutral.

 

[GuidoK]

@GuidoK Other than rulers are any tools at all still made in Holland?

No, I don't think so.
Maybe some specialist tools or things like compressors, but afaik no mainstream hand tools.
There's very little production at all in Holland; mostly large/expensive one-off machine parts etc.

 

[Monte]

@
maxipouce

Great posts !!!! Thank you very much for the interesting pics !! The stores look really good ! I`d like to make holidays in the Mr. Bricolage store !

So the Bost tools i guess is the lower priced offering and Facom high priced and the import tools (MrBricolage) the cheapest ? (screwdrivers)

What do you can test ? The outside of the Bost case ? great !
Do you know where the Bost wrenches are from ? Still france or already Taiwan ?
The prices of the Mr.Bricolage ratcheting swivel wrenches are good. Are the prices with v.a.t. included ?
We have "Mecafer" here too.... but i wouldnt buy it
Stanley seems to be well known in france, probably because they produce in france. So which saws do the stores offer (Stanley ? Fischer-Darex ?)


@GuidoK
Thanks for posting the pic ! Never saw a Beargrip tool ! accidentally found their website...

Here is a rivet/rivet tool manufacturer from Holland but i think they only produce in the "far east" as their website states www.masterfix.com. This is from Holland too: www.duimstok.nl Other than that i only found tool distributors like www.serenco.nl or www.tooltech.nl


@mik641:
thanks for posting the pics ! Never saw a Bedford wrench

Monte,

Thanks for sharing the new Wiha hand tools coming out later this year. I would imagine that the Wiha slim insulated screwdrivers will be a big hit with electricians. I personally like Wiha's circlip pliers with "Magic Tips". I am surprised Wiha beat out all their competitors in incorporating such a simple and useful feature with their circlip pliers.


Dave

yeah the circlip pliers are a great idea i think ! (if the tips hold up). The "Slim" screwdrivers are a great idea too !! It`s going to be a expensive 2010

pivoting bit holder is slick!

yup

Those Wiha screwdrivers look nice. As long as they are made in Germany I'll get a set.

I think you can see the "Made in Germany" at the usual location on the screwdriver handles.

 

[Monte]

NWS combination pliers

 

[Sick Puppy]

This thread is AWESOME!! I feel like my initial reason for coming on to this forum has been corrupted... there I was, wanting to know more about hand tools and different brands, and instead I've spent the last week looking at tool ****!

Only problem for me is that from about post 1310 onwards, many of the pics are blocked out with "bandwidth exceeded", especially Monte's posts, so I'm missing all the cool stuff!

Regardless, thanks everyone for posting pics and information up here- I've learnt heaps, and look forward to seeing more!

 

[maxipouce]

That ****** attachments systems which is always asking me to log in while I am already logged just ruined 10 mins of question answering.So you'll have to wait folks.

 

[Monte]

@sick puppy:
Photobucket says the pics will be available again from february 26th.



Tool news 2010 part 2

new locking pliers from Bollmann-grip

new Stahlwille screwdrivers now also available with tips made to swiss VSM norm (parallel tips like PB Swiss screwdrivers) overview

new japanese saws from Augusta-Heckenrose

new floor tiler`s hammer from Picard

new Picard engineeers hammer with fiberglass handle
Available from mai 2010 in 300, 500 and 800 gram

New work lights and tool set from USH

 

[dede2897234]

That ****** attachments systems which is always asking me to log in while I am already logged just ruined 10 mins of question answering.So you'll have to wait folks.

Maxipouce,

To prevent future problems, before you click on the "Submit Reply" button, select all the text you just typed, right-click your mouse button, select "Copy", open "Notepad" in Windows, right-click inside "Notepad", and select "Paste." This way you will have a backup of your work and not lose it if this forum asks you to log on again.


Dave

 

[dede2897234]

Tool news 2010 part 2

new Stahlwille screwdrivers now also available with tips made to swiss VSM norm (parallel tips like PB Swiss screwdrivers) overview

Monte,


Thanks again for sharing pictures of new tools coming out this year! I enjoy learning about them.

Do you know if Stahlwille will source the parallel tip slotted blades from PB Swiss?

I would imagine Stahlwille will produce the handles and assemble the screwdrivers themselves in Germany.


Dave

 

[Monte]

@Dave:

I`m pretty sure Stahlwille "Drall+" screwdrivers are manufactured by Witte. (As well as the "3KDrall" series with the fibre coated handles (Witte patent))
I think they are based on the Witte Protop II screwdrivers

Witte VSM screwdrivers

Witte Protop II PDF catalog: click
Stahlwille Drall+ catalog: click

I don`t know if Witte make their own VSM blades , i guess yes, but i also just sent them a email.

 

[dede2897234]

Monte,

I am glad to hear that there is another manufacturer (Witte) competing in the VSM slotted screwdriver market besides PB Swiss.

I am looking forward to hearing from you on Witte's response to the source of their VSM screwdriver blades.


Thanks,

Dave

 

[GuidoK]

My thoughts exactly.
I first thought: hmmm a PB screwdriver with Witte brand sign....
I really like the classic PB stuff; now there's a choice to make.
I hope there will be some nice sets on the market.

 

[superautobacs]

Great posts!

Maxipouce, thanks for taking the time to share those photos. I wish I could've been to the larger stores like yours, where the selection is bigger.

I have some Wolfcraft clamps; do the packagings over there mention the COO? Also, are the Revex clamps made in France?

These arent really old world but still interesting.

one is a open ended fuller japan spanner with KTC stamped into the raised panel aswell.
...

Is there a forged marking somewhere on the Fuller/KTC wrench with letters "BF"?

 

[american lockpicker]

Aren't wolfcraft designed in Germany or something like that.

 

[maxipouce]

Like the Danes would say "igen og igen og"

So let's answer to Dave first;
You know, "Mrbricolage" is just a diy-home improvement store and now I am wondering what you will say if i can get back from my trip to "auto industrie" with photos.

Since "CIA" is an auto parts store (it also has an hydraulic and an engine rebuilding shop) it will store tools sets, special bits, and pullers.
I am not sure of what you mean by cheap and expensive Facom, the price is within a 3% interval the same everywhere.
When it comes to ratchets sockets and wrenches I would say they have even less of them in stock than MrBricolage (who needs that on a car? ) but they fulfill orders way faster.
There is no difference between euro or taiwanese tools when it comes to their retailing among the world. Most retailers will even believe that wrenches and sockets are still made in France.
The shelves at "Mrbricolage" are not constantly replenished with facom tools, you can trust me on this one, we are not that rich!!! It will be difficult to get this information from the responsible of the hand tools area but i'll try.

And monte's turn

I think all of us dream about the same kind of sightseeing during holidays, that reminds me of my trip to NURNBERG to change a rocker arm on an opel astra, I had to work on the sidewalk, had to go and buy it at the opel dealer (I do not speak german at all) and I also had to build some kind of spring compressor before going there with a fuzzy memory of the size of the parts, those were the days!!!!

Pricing of tools is that way from the cheapest to the most expensive;
cochonium (pigonium in english or schrottonium in german), cogex, Mrbricolage,bost,facom.

We can test the smoothness of the Bost case, that's AMAZING wooohoooo

I do not know where the box wrenches are from their sockets are certainly from taiwan as some details on their 3/4 accessories are only found on facom peers.

All the prices are v.a.t included in civilian stores, you have to be careful in professional stores (where civilians still can buy);
vat=tva= taxe sur la valeur ajoutée
vat incl=ttc=toutes taxes comprises
vat excl=ht=hors taxes

here are some fischer darex items facing the screwdrivers area;