CGarage
Well-known member
Good find Mr.Lemons on the tin snips. Will need to get some.
Tools from the old world
- Thread starter Monte
- Start date
CGarage
Well-known member
Facom “Rotator ratchets”.
Both are 3/8” drive.
The first release version (red button) and the latest version (with black button, to release socket). Notice the campaign of continued improvements and the reduction in head size and thickness. Keep up the continued improvements, Facom! Well done.
Both are 3/8” drive.
The first release version (red button) and the latest version (with black button, to release socket). Notice the campaign of continued improvements and the reduction in head size and thickness. Keep up the continued improvements, Facom! Well done.
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So those are acetate body with spinner caps? Fascinating.
I've never seen anything like that!
Hmm. The only Vessel precision screwdrivers I have or have used are the three pack they sell. I'm sure they have tons of different models. I have no idea how good the tips are, because the handles are too thin for my taste and the blades too long. So in practice I'll pick up something else regardless.
CGarage
Well-known member
JBH:
That’s correct on the Belzer set.
The Vessels have good tips. Not sure if they are as robust as PB Swiss but I have had no issues. The 3 pack is what I am referring to. They fit my hands beautifully and the extra length is great if you are working on stacked PCBs that are mounted to a heat sink, etc and you need to go through a hole on the PCB to access the fasteners. The length is very useful. I think these were developed with Electrical Engineering in mind.
That’s correct on the Belzer set.
The Vessels have good tips. Not sure if they are as robust as PB Swiss but I have had no issues. The 3 pack is what I am referring to. They fit my hands beautifully and the extra length is great if you are working on stacked PCBs that are mounted to a heat sink, etc and you need to go through a hole on the PCB to access the fasteners. The length is very useful. I think these were developed with Electrical Engineering in mind.
CGarage
Well-known member
Rennsteig parallel pin punch set.
The good:
“Made in Germany”
Metric sizes
Removable collets for the punches
The bad:
Not in love with how they are finished- they are not pretty
The smaller sizes look expendable
Verdict: As recommended by H&K Oberndorf.
I went out and ordered multiple French made watchmaking pin punches in the smaller sizes for less than $2.00 USD each and will treat these as expendable. Probably made better than these from Germany. But not bad for ~$28 USD.
The good:
“Made in Germany”
Metric sizes
Removable collets for the punches
The bad:
Not in love with how they are finished- they are not pretty
The smaller sizes look expendable
Verdict: As recommended by H&K Oberndorf.
I went out and ordered multiple French made watchmaking pin punches in the smaller sizes for less than $2.00 USD each and will treat these as expendable. Probably made better than these from Germany. But not bad for ~$28 USD.
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Qualitytools
Well-known member
Have you figured out what the 3 recessed areas are intended for on the edge of the drain pans by the rear handle opposite of the spout end? Curious as I can't figure out what they are for except for possibly a drain plug after removal? Thanks for sharing!
Dave455
Well-known member
The very first set of those punches with sliding sleeves that I ever saw was made by Belzer. The quality, as you might expect, was first class.
Most of my metric punches are now PB Swiss. I have the hexagonal ones for general engineering, and the knurled ones for smaller sizes. I’ve had zero issues with these.
In inch sizes I have a mixture of British Eclipse / Moore & Wright, and some Starrett. I have one set on which I’ve broken the edges and polished the tips to a mirror finish. I use these on pins I don’t want to mark. No need to do this on the PB!
I think you guessed one. I use to have a pan with a little shelf in it with a peg for draining old filters which was handy. Most manufacturers don't put in the effort for little additions like that.
Qualitytools
Well-known member
Makes sense Thanks, the one I just purchased is the HAZET 197-2 but no cap, I will try and find a cap for it an I feel the threads now that you mention it
I also have an old drain pan made by RUBBERMAID that has the peg on the inside and a shelf for the filter, nice added feature. However, on the new HAZET 197-2 the other two I am not sure what they serve. I even looked at their catalog for some added description but could not find additional details
Anyone known anything about these British made Belzer items? I found https://taths.org.uk/queries/387-a-belzer-screwdriver and also http://progress-is-fine.blogspot.com/2015/07/vanished-tool-makers-belzer.html but they have no conclusion.
Dave455
Well-known member
Anyone known anything about these British made Belzer items? I found https://taths.org.uk/queries/387-a-belzer-screwdriver and also http://progress-is-fine.blogspot.com/2015/07/vanished-tool-makers-belzer.html but they have no conclusion.
Well, ‘British Made” tended to be used up till the late 50’s, after which “Made in England” was more common. However, there seems to be no definitive policy on this, and that screwdriver looks much later than that to me.
Cellulose Acetate, which I’m pretty certain that handle is, was very common from the late 60’s onwards, and I’m thinking that screwdriver is 70’s vintage?
As for the maker, it’s hard to tell. There were, and still are, many firms making all manner of things, but quite often the company that actually makes something isn’t the same one who’s name end’s up on the product.
Only a couple of years ago I was at a firm in Birmingham, and was surprised to see interchangeable bit screwdrivers being produced. I was only surprised because I knew the design well, knew the company who sold them, and also knew that they were marked “USA”!
On one of the links you attached someone suggested Stead and Co. That would have been my first guess too, as I’m pretty certain they produced both handles and blades in house. Their quality was first class too, which would have been appropriate for Belzer.
I still have several Steadfast screwdrivers in regular use. They were taken over by the James Neill group, and ended up as part of Spear and Jackson. There are still Steadfast designs being produced under that name. I bought some from Zoro only recently.
Trouble is, there are many other possibilities. Below is a picture of a “Picador” awl. I doubt they produced the handle, and the shape is slightly different, but I have a British Made Belzer driver of my Dad’s, and the material appears to be identical.
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Wera, Knipex, Stahlwille and Gedore have announced that they have cancelled their booths at the International Hardware Fair in Cologne due to the Coronavirus.
There should be some new tools announced on March 1st that would have been revealed at the show.
There should be some new tools announced on March 1st that would have been revealed at the show.
Todays finnish flea market finds. A Hazet oil filter Tool, soviet 5metre tape measure, couple of screwdrivers from facom and Sandvik and Dowidat socket set stuffed with sockets from stahlwille, gedore, bahco Argentina and Dowidat. U joint is made by matador so a little bit random box but for the Price 30€ from all these were a great find. 
Hazet oil filter tool
Soviet made tape measure
Dowidat socket set
Lähetetty minun Nokia 7 plus laitteesta Tapatalkilla
Hazet oil filter tool
Soviet made tape measure
Dowidat socket set
Lähetetty minun Nokia 7 plus laitteesta Tapatalkilla
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Alava
Well-known member
Hazet, Stahlwille, knipex, wera and a lot more are cancelling the Eisenwarenmesse fair of Cologne, after the first cancellation of gedore on monday,due to Covid-19. Its is very probable to see this year the fair cancelled, bad news for the tool enthusiasts and workers of the tool trading field
Guys, does anyone knows something about name variations in old German screwdrivers (famous brands)?
For example:
- On some screwdrivers you have Wiha, but at the same time on others you have Wihalit.
- The same thing is with Belzer, and Belzeryl.
- Wera and Weralit
For example:
- On some screwdrivers you have Wiha, but at the same time on others you have Wihalit.
- The same thing is with Belzer, and Belzeryl.
- Wera and Weralit
Dave455
Well-known member
Well I can’t speak for “Wihalit”, my German isn’t quite up to it, but in English a “yl” suffix on a word was commonly used to denote a material. The implication being that it was a proprietary material.
So, Belzer might have made their handles from what they called “Belzeryl” which was probably cellulose acetate. In an era when wooden handles were common, the durability of cellulose acetate would have been quite an improvement.
Now that I think about it, in an era of “soft finish” handles (for “soft” read “cheap”) it would still be an improvement!
That's some nice stuff!
I think you are right, and I would say it's the same thing with "lit" suffix, bakelite is called bakelit in German (and Swedish) so they tried to draw connotations to that I'd say.
DuratecMan10
Well-known member
DuratecMan10
Well-known member
Jack84
Well-known member
Belzer, Bahco, Felo, Gedore and PB Swiss I picked up yesterday.
Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal
Reed Prince
Well-known member
A couple of days ago I was alerted here on the forums about a one day Amazon sale of select Wera items, and so I decided to get a set of Joker SAE wrenches for $114.66.
These arrived instead.
I'm not going to bother returning them, but I still could use some ratcheting SAEs. Any recommendations on something nice from the other side of the pond? I could always get more Jokers, but would rather sample the wares of another company.
These arrived instead.
I'm not going to bother returning them, but I still could use some ratcheting SAEs. Any recommendations on something nice from the other side of the pond? I could always get more Jokers, but would rather sample the wares of another company.
Dave455
Well-known member
By far the majority of the ratcheting combination wrenches, including the Wera’s, are Taiwanese. The only ones I can think of that are not, are the Snap On and the Gedore. I don’t think the Gedore are available in SAE, so that doesn’t leave many old world options! Facom used to be an option, but I’m pretty sure they are Taiwanese now.
I haven’t been the biggest fan of this style of wrench, so let us know how those Wera’s work out. The design is certainly novel. I seldom need the open end, so if I need a ratcheting wrench I tend to go for the old style double box end. Most are decently made.
How about the SK X Frame?
I haven’t been the biggest fan of this style of wrench, so let us know how those Wera’s work out. The design is certainly novel. I seldom need the open end, so if I need a ratcheting wrench I tend to go for the old style double box end. Most are decently made.
How about the SK X Frame?
Wera Jokers are made in CZ. The Wiha are Taiwan and feel a lot like Gearwrench.
Dave455
Well-known member
Well that’s excellent news. I thought only their screwdrivers were made in the Czech Republic. I suspect the ratcheting part is Taiwanese though. I don’t know how strict the Czechs are for something to be marked as made there.
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CGarage
Well-known member
They aren't strict. Im strongly suspicious that most of the metal tools other than screwdriver shanks are forged in Taiwan and are only assembled and packaged in the CZ factory. I've seen no evidence to suggest otherwise while Wera has every reason to hide it.
Generally when a company makes all those tools they use it as marketing material. Its easy to find photos and promotional material of Hazet, Wiha, Stahlwille, Gedore etc.. being manufactured. Good luck finding anything for Wera wrenches, ratchets, or sockets.
SAA44-40
Well-known member
Does anyone have experience with the Wiha Vario torque screwdrivers?
I’ve lurked here since May 2018, drawn in on my research for decent European made tools.
This thread has continued to be a real fascination, grateful for all the contributions Monte etc.etc..
Since joining, I’ve bought a fair percentage of the Hazet back catalogue (lol) in particular I must mention ToolTeam24.com who have supplied much of it. Really easy to deal with and sending to UK not a problem.
One day I’ll photograph the lot and share on the Hazet thread. Im so impressed with the quality of their tools and the sheer breadth of the catalogue. I’m just sad that I’m running out of tools that I actually need.
Anyway, some recent acquisitions, flexible ratchet heads 1/2in, stud extractor set, some brushes, wheel arch cover and cv boot crimp tool. Solid quality as always, look forward to getting them dirty.
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This thread has continued to be a real fascination, grateful for all the contributions Monte etc.etc..
Since joining, I’ve bought a fair percentage of the Hazet back catalogue (lol) in particular I must mention ToolTeam24.com who have supplied much of it. Really easy to deal with and sending to UK not a problem.
One day I’ll photograph the lot and share on the Hazet thread. Im so impressed with the quality of their tools and the sheer breadth of the catalogue. I’m just sad that I’m running out of tools that I actually need.
Anyway, some recent acquisitions, flexible ratchet heads 1/2in, stud extractor set, some brushes, wheel arch cover and cv boot crimp tool. Solid quality as always, look forward to getting them dirty.
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Dave455
Well-known member
Hi Ben, and welcome!
I’m in the U.K. too and I’ve bought most of my new Hazet from TBS Aachen. Their website is easy to view, they seem to have just about everything Hazet on it, and the prices are competitive. They have Stahlwille too, including the factory promotions, which can be awesome deals
It’s also worth keeping an eye on U.K. Amazon. There’s a fair amount of Hazet on there too. The prices go up and down more often than a whores drawers on a Saturday night, but if you want something particular and can wait, you can buy at a low point.
I’ve bought a couple of Hazet 1/4 drive ratchets this way, and ended up getting them even cheaper than TBS!
Good hunting!
Thank you for the pictures !! Looks nice and tidy ! It seems they offer the core tools like sockets, wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers etc. Looks better than in some stores over here
Trying to keep up with Monte.....
It’s not working but I try
Everybody could wear a mask and wash their hands so everything would be good..... 
nice haul !
Kungs windshield wiper
Reed Prince
Well-known member
Small Facom things.
Bigger Facom thing.
Bigger Facom thing.
Don't let that stop you. Maybe you need a travel tool set or a clean set for in the house or a set just for electrical work etc etc.
Would be interested to hear if you like the extending ratchet after some use. Still surprised how much I like mine. Would like those extensions as well.
Gedore J0 circlip pliers, PB Swiss ESD PH0 screwdriver, PB Swiss bits and Erbauer bolt and nut remover set.
I have been using the same model PB Swiss screwdriver daily at work since April 2018. The tip is still good but a thin layer of the rubber handle has started peeling off. Not sure if it's due to wear or the chemicals we use. I've never seen rubber peel in layers like that. Should really be using the hard plastic handled version but I like the extra grip/torque from the rubber handle.
The Erbauer set is cheap and made in China. They are 3/8" sockets and come with an adapter to use them in a 1/4" impact driver. Not sure if they will work better on an impact or a normal ratchet (if at all). Erbauer is the own brand for B&Q and Screwfix in the UK.
Liking the Wiha/Xiaomi driver quite a bit. Thought I didn't really like ratchet screwdrivers but it works well and is handy to keep in the kitchen drawer. The mechanism is very smooth after some use.
I have been using some cheap needle diamond files for a while and find then to be very good but the coating wears off quickly when used on harder metals. Does anyone know of some good mid priced diamond files? There only seems to be very cheap or very expensive diamond files available.
I've looked at Vallorbe and Pferd which would only be worth the price to me if they last a good few years. Anyone use them?
What I have now.
Pferd set which I think is made in Germany. £82 ($105) and you don't get handles. Vallorbe are £40 for each file.
Edit.... Noticed these are a more reasonable price on Amazon.de
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Dave455
Well-known member
I have been using some cheap needle diamond files for a while and find then to be very good but the coating wears off quickly when used on harder metals. Does anyone know of some good mid priced diamond files? There only seems to be very cheap or very expensive diamond files available.
I've looked at Vallorbe and Pferd which would only be worth the price to me if they last a good few years. Anyone use them?
What I have now. :
Pferd set which I think is made in Germany. £82 ($105) and you don't get handles. Vallorbe are £40 for each file.
Done a lot of filing, especially needle filing, including a few jobs that should probably have been done with a milling machine!
Don’t like the diamond coated files much, but if you need them for hardness so be it.
The cheap ones are useless, for the reasons you outlined.
Never used Vallorbe diamond files but they’re probably good. I have Vallorbe escapement files, needle files, warding files and precision files. All are excellent!
MSC offer some diamond files called “MDT”. I think they normally come in to the category of “expensive” but they regularly turn up in their specials flyer, at less than half price if I recall. I have these and they seem excellent, but I use them seldom.
Do you need the hardness of diamond? Vallorbe offer some files (regular and needle) called “Valtitan”. They are harder than regular needle files, so can be used on harder materials, but also last longer on steel. I have these and they are superb. I use them as my “go to” now.
3M make some diamond files too. Odd looking things, they are plastic, and the needle files look something like a girls nail file, but.. (like most 3M stuff) they work really well. They cut well, leave a decent finish, seem to last well, and are reasonably priced. In a previous job I occasionally had to hand fit (re fit) hardened parts, and I kept these in my service bag for that purpose. Never let me down!
The files from my old service bag are shown below. The 3M ones are far right. Most of the others were for specific jobs. The ones that look like they have no teeth are slotting files - the teeth are only on the edges!
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Cynical huckster
Well-known member
Stanley Interlock knives. Still made in England.
