Trench digging questions

[mayday0017]

I have about 500-600ft of trenching to do over the holiday, I plan on having all of my trenching marked the day before I rent the trencher and all of the area being trenched should be mostly root free and rock free. The question is having never used a trencher before is how big of one to get....

First question....
RSC equipment is across the street from me and talking to them I felt like I was kinda getting screwed, if I pick up Monday (Christmas eve) between 3 & 5 and return by Wednesday morning between 7am & 8am they will only charge me 1 day ($203+tax). Basically I wouldn't get to use it Monday as planned I would have to do everything Tuesday and bring it back the next day. In the past I'm use to rental places letting you keep it the day they are closed at no extra charge. Opinions?

Next question...
So after feeling like $203 was a little high for a trencher I decided to call Home Depot up and get their rate cause they are also located near by. They have an 18" trencher for $95 and a 36" ditchwitch for $159, the guy I spoke with is not sure how their holidays work and is going to check with a manager and get back with me. The question here is, which should I rent? 18" is plenty deep enough for the work I'm doing (shooting for 14-15" for clean 12" hole). I would be willing to guess the weight and extra size of the 36" is worth the extra money but I want to confirm this....

Basically I am looking for any advise I can get on trenching, I am installing a sprinkler system and have everything else ready to go. I don't want to spend several days digging... The plan is have everywhere marked the day before and spend 4-5ish hours dragging the trencher around the next day, then day 3 snap everything together and backfill....

Thoughts?

 

[Al Bundy]

I'm not sure where you live but I would plan on more than one day if you aren't trenching on the beach. 500 ft is a long way. Not to mention the last time I rented one, it was a couple hours of screwing around with the carb to get it to run right.

 

[ClickClickBoom]

With that much trenching I would get a ride on unit. I rented a big walk behind (drive wheels were also powered), and it worked well, but it was tiring moving that thing around and keeping it going where you needed it. I've got enough back problems as it is and am tall at 6 4" so I'm sure that was part of the issue.

. I only trenched about 75 feet in an afternoon/ evening and I was glad to be done at that. Can't imagine 500-600 feet with a walk behind.

it's not just about how deep they trench, but the larger units have more power, and are able to trench through roots/ rocks/ ect, more easily.


I also have a lot of rock in the soil about 12-18 inches down, so it was slow going. If you know your soil is clear for the depth you want to trench, then it may not be bad at all.

If you can have a helper around that can be a spotter, and to clear the chain if it gets clogged with a rock, ect. They can also help keep you on the correct depth. Beats running from the front to the back of the machine all day.

 

[uncletater]

ride on is the way to go. You have a lot to dig. I would plan on two or three days of digging. You will be one tired puppy with either machine (walk behind or ride on) trenching *****. Good luck.

 

[Steevo]

I second the need for a ride-on when doing that many feet of trenching. You will beat yourself to death using a walking unit.

 

[mayday0017]

Well dang, this sounds discouraging.... I appreciate you guys being honest! The irrigation company's around here typically trench and install in 1 day using a ditch witch or using 5 guys with shovels and trench everything...

Just got a call back from Homedepot and they will rent to me Monday morning and let me keep it till Wednesday for the 1 day fee. That is exactly what I was looking for, I still for some crazy reason think it should only take me a day to trench the yard (I do have a helper to switch off with). But I wanted an extra day if possible to be a buffer... Sounds like I will be doing some trenching on Christmas Eve and possibly Christmas day!

The home depot guy heard me say sprinkler system and he said "oh we have another machine we rent for that" he gave me a name and a price, I'm going to look it over too... it is a little cheaper and makes a very thin trench according to him so I guess I will figure everything out my best and then hope for the rest!

Home depot it is for rental place and biggest machine I can afford! Thanks for the help!

 

[ClickClickBoom]

This is one of those situations where you shouldn't buy what you can afford, rather, buy what is actually needed for the job.

If you can't afford what is needed, what till you can. The outcome will be much better.

You might also call around to landscapers and see what they would charge to dig the trenches. Might find someone with a machine that is needing christmas money. Check craigslist as well.

Then, plumb, and backfill yourself.

 

[mayday0017]

This is one of those situations where you shouldn't buy what you can afford, rather, buy what is actually needed for the job.

If you can't afford what is needed, what till you can. The outcome will be much better.

You might also call around to landscapers and see what they would charge to dig the trenches. Might find someone with a machine that is needing christmas money. Check craigslist as well.

Then, plumb, and backfill yourself.

Good suggestions...

Any trencher will do the job, it is not an issue of money it is an issue of time.... so by "best I can afford" means the most bad *** one they rent with in reason because I want it to be quick...

The job will be done right even if I use a shovel and put my back into it...

I like the idea of possibly paying someone to do the trenching, I will look into that!


Anyone else with experience trenching for a sprinkler system?

 

[pfarber]

Most places don't rent a 'day', the rent 'time' as in 1 day = 8 hrs of hobbs time. Make sure you understand what they are charging for or be ready for a bigger (WAY BIGGER) bill.

I rented a 45ft Genie Boom on Friday, and was to have it ready for pickup 8am Monday... since it was slow they didn't care if it was out for the weekend. Guess how many hours I could put on the unit? 8.

Look into the weekly rate. That Genie Boom, delivered was $550 for 8hrs use (aka 'a day') but renting it for 5 days (aka 40 hours) was only $750. Since your project is going to be much more than you think, you may just want to front the week just to have the time cushion.

 

[Train]

I rented a 36 inch self propelled walk behind. My soil is so rocky we had to run conduit the entire way to protect the electrial line we buried. Trenched just over 330 feet. Picked it up at noon. Drove 18 miles home, trenched, and drove it back. Had it there by 4:45.

 

[GarageEnvy]

A few years ago I trenched about 250 feet of 24" deep trench with a walk behind ditchwitch. There were tons of tree roots, some rocks and even some spots of hardpan. Honestly I thought it was pretty easy. It took about 3 hours and most of that time I was just babysitting the machine. The model I rented had a locked axle, drove straight and was self-propelled. Tree roots tended to stall it though. I've rented several trenchers and by far the best one of the bunch was a diesel bobcat unit on tracks. It was a stand-on model that had several attachments. It was the only one that could handle roots. If you really don't have any obstacles in your path, I think it should be doable in a day. I know my local HD has a small trencher that basically has a lawn mower motor on it. Even the guys that rent it say it's pretty much worthless.

 

[csp]

Most places don't rent a 'day', the rent 'time' as in 1 day = 8 hrs of hobbs time. Make sure you understand what they are charging for or be ready for a bigger (WAY BIGGER) bill.

Every place I've ever rented from (lots of them) have had a daily rate which means 24hrs on a clock.

Lots of equipment doesn't have a Hobbs meter, let alone tools.

 

[mayday0017]

Thanks for the feedback guys, based on your comments it looks like if I know exactly where I will be trenching ahead of time. And the fact there is only a 15' section that will be anywhere close to a tree things should go really smooth. I figure 4-6 hours of digging, and will water the yard for a couple days before I start any trenching to help soften up any dry soil.

If I remember and have the time maybe I can make a "how to" or something for putting in a sprinkler system!

 

[97dynaglide]

I've rented a 24" Ditch Witch twice before, and had excellent results each time. One time for a sprinkler system, the other was to cut an remove tree roots near our pool. The drive wheels are hydraulic so the only 'work' involved for me was just keeping it straight, a tug here or push there was all that was needed.

Roots and rocks will be the problems. Get a big pry bar for the rocks, and a good saw-all and hatchet for the roots, and with a couple of helpers, you'll be done in no time.

 

[CNGsaves]

Have you considered the "Pulling" style trenchers? Here in KS with good soil conditions, they use a small Ditch Witch (small 4WD around size of riding mower) that has vibratory plow with roll of plastic black pipe on a roll behind the "trencher" that slices into ground at same time that sprinkler pipe goes in there. You make all your runs and just leave stubs out of ground long enough to finish connections later (ie some pipe waste).

I'd sure recommend this method. Even COX cable company here sub-contracts out all their buried cableTV drops and they put in 1/2" or 3/4" as general practice. I'm guessing a guy with vibratory plow could do your 500+ feet in a few hours, AND your yard would not be all tore up.

 

[bochnak]

I rented a 36" ditch witch for a 130' run and had it done in 1-1.5hrs tops. I had a 30" ash tree near the run and it bucked a bit when it hit roots.

The soil/rock/roots where you live will obviously play a factor.

 

[theoldwizard1]

HD rental equipment around here is pretty new.

SIL rented a stump grinder (powered by Honda 13HP) from HD. He flooded it at first and the kill switch was not adjusted right so it cut out a couple of times, but with less than 10 hours on the clock it did the job quick !

 

[scottydosnntkno]

Have you considered the "Pulling" style trenchers? Here in KS with good soil conditions, they use a small Ditch Witch (small 4WD around size of riding mower) that has vibratory plow with roll of plastic black pipe on a roll behind the "trencher" that slices into ground at same time that sprinkler pipe goes in there. You make all your runs and just leave stubs out of ground long enough to finish connections later (ie some pipe waste).

I'd sure recommend this method. Even COX cable company here sub-contracts out all their buried cableTV drops and they put in 1/2" or 3/4" as general practice. I'm guessing a guy with vibratory plow could do your 500+ feet in a few hours, AND your yard would not be all tore up.

Thats the "sprinkler" machine Home Depot was talking about. makes sprinklers easy, and you just walk the line after to push it down no backfilling.

granted this picture is of a Dingo attachement, but same thing, Just pull the pipe along behind the machine.

 

[grumpygator]

Here in florida we have a toll free phone number to call befor you dig.
they send someone out to mark all the utilites.
With 500 hundred feet to trench I bet you find at least two or three things you didn't expect.
Been there done that.No fun.
*******Just Saying*********Gator************

 

[trbomax]

For 500' I'd get the ditch witch,500' isnt bad if your rideing. I dug the 550' trench for my water down to my shop7' deep flatbottomed and got the pipe in in a day with my back hoe and one other guy. The electric down to the mule barn was 275' x 2' deep and I used a walk behind,never again. That was a 5 hr back breaker. The didtch witch will make short work of the roots wheras the walk behind you will be pushing it thru.

 

[DBeacon]

Some back round...I've been renting equipment from (primarily RSC and United Rentals) for 12 years. Forklifts, scissor lifts, "lulls" being the majority of my use in my business. One of the little known secrets is planning. If we are sure that our work will be finished on a weekend, we "call" the equipment in for pick up late on Friday because the vast majority of large rental yards do not pick up or deliver on the weekend. It's more cost effective for them to take out the Monday deliveries and then pick up the equipment called in late on Friday. You can use this to your advantage by getting the "free" use of that equipment over the weekend. The key, again, is to call it in late on Friday. This will usually stop the clock in your favor.

 

[58Yeoman]

I rented a walk behind Vermeer to dig a couple hundred feet of 8" wide trench, through rocks and tree roots. I got home just as it was getting dark, did the trenching and took it back the next morning. I hit some good sized rocks which made it jump, but the 6" tree root stopped it dead. I moved to the other side and finished the trench. It didn't take more than a couple hours. Cost was about $250.

 

[Jay_mc1]

I install sprinkler systems during the summer months. If that is what you are doing than a vibratory plow is the only way to go. You will not have to backfill any of the trenches and you Could do all 500 feet in an hour. Use the 1inch poly pipe sold by Home Depot and pull it right into the ground. In leaves. A half inch slit in the ground that closes up on its own. I usually run the tire of the machine back over the slit, and you can't tell you we're there. You will need another person to held feed and guide the pipe to avoid kinking it.

this is a decent video showing how to do it.

 

[fatboy99]

Here in florida we have a toll free phone number to call befor you dig.
they send someone out to mark all the utilites.
With 500 hundred feet to trench I bet you find at least two or three things you didn't expect.
Been there done that.No fun.
*******Just Saying*********Gator************

Call 811 2 working day's before you dig for locates Here In Indiana if you hit a buried utility it's a 10,000 fine plus repair cost and lost revenue. Not to mention if you hit a power line you could be killed !!

 

[PoolGuy444]

Yes definitely call 811. Digg Tess. I worked for a pool builder years ago and one time he forgot to call. Dug the pool and hit the phone line. Phone company charged us 2500 bucks to fix and reroute the line. If we would have called 811 first, they would have rerouted for free. Lesson learned.

 

[1grnlwn]

500-700 ft straight trench use big machine. Sprinkler systems can be complex and have a lot of trenches in small area. Trencher needs to be nimble and have some plywood pieces to put down for wheels crossing trenches. Trenches allow for putting more than one pipe, wires in trench. I would think you would have to be pretty experienced with design to use a plow style, not to mention that material is probably much different. When I first started my lawn care business I got involved in a sprinkler project with a "do it yourself lady" Needless to say I learned a lot about being in business in those 3 days. It is a long story but a good one. Make sure you have a grease gun. I have heard and experienced the bar sticking in the down in ditch position. pretty helpless when this happens. Oh, you may also want to buy a crumb shovel. It is like a normal shovel with the sides cut off. Back liniment would also help. Good Luck!

 

[1grnlwn]

Oh I may have been misleading, on the third day I was just getting started laying pipe.( I consider myself as above average craftsman). Like I said it is a long but good tale!

 

[pfarber]

Every place I've ever rented from (lots of them) have had a daily rate which means 24hrs on a clock.

Lots of equipment doesn't have a Hobbs meter, let alone tools.

How the hell do you put a hobbs meter on 'tools'. Your lack of common sense makes your entire post merit-less.

Yes, TOOLS are 24 hours. DUH.

Powered equipment (aka an engine), thats a different story. Here are some local power equipment companys. And I have personally rented from bestline (genie boom.

http://www.bestlineinc.com/custompage.asp?pg=terms
" Lessee agrees to pay Lessor additional rental charges for equipment used in excess of single shift operation. Single shift operation will be defined as 8 hour work days, 40 hour work week."

http://www.eaglerentalcenter.com/policies.asp
Daily rate applies to 24 hour rate on certain items only, unless otherwise noted. Includes 8 hours of use on hour meter. Charges will be applied for additional hours.

http://www.stoneycreekrentals.com/faq.asp
Equipment may be picked up or delivered within operating hours on Saturday and returned Monday before 8:00 am for a one day price, with 8 hours allowed on hour meter. Overage time will be prorated.

NO ONE is renting powered equipment for 24 hour use. Unless its basically toy homeowner stuff.

I can't believe I had to actually say this.

 

[1grnlwn]

Just a thought (lawn care prof) if you can't afford to rent good equipment, unless you are on an endless well, you can't afford a sprinkler system. Don't be surprised if you need to rent it twice to get it all done.

 

[csp]

NO ONE is renting powered equipment for 24 hour use. Unless its basically toy homeowner stuff.

I can't believe I had to actually say this.

I can't believe you brought up hourly vs daily either. The OP is asking about trenching 18" deep and getting the machine to do this from Home Depot as a possibile source. He's not going to the local CAT rental store to get a walk behind trencher. Granted he mentioned 500ft, but being a sprinkler system it's a safe assumption that this isn't a single 500' trench. Probably lots of smaller trenches and a machine big enough to have an hour meter is most likely too big to maneuver around the house, other landscaping, etc.

The subject rental machinery IS going to be toy homeowner stuff!

How the hell do you put a hobbs meter on 'tools'. Your lack of common sense makes your entire post merit-less.

Yes, TOOLS are 24 hours. DUH.

You just validated my point, considering what kind of machine the OP is looking at using.

The lack of common sense comment sure is ironic.

 

[nmk_61802]

I can't believe you brought up hourly vs daily either. The OP is asking about trenching 18" deep and getting the machine to do this from Home Depot as a possibile source. He's not going to the local CAT rental store to get a walk behind trencher. Granted he mentioned 500ft, but being a sprinkler system it's a safe assumption that this isn't a single 500' trench. Probably lots of smaller trenches and a machine big enough to have an hour meter is most likely too big to maneuver around the house, other landscaping, etc.

The subject rental machinery IS going to be toy homeowner stuff!



You just validated my point, considering what kind of machine the OP is looking at using.

The lack of common sense comment sure is ironic.

I would have to disagree here. In one of the original post the question was a 24" vs a 36" and he was looking into getting a unit from a local rental place. While I am not familiar with Home Depot rentals, my local Sunbelt charges by hour for their larger gas powered equipment, this includes walk behind ditch witches and stump grinders (I know I've rented them both). I rent the unit for 24 hrs, but if I return it with more than 8 hrs on the clock, I get charged per hour of use over. If they are closed the day of return, I can keep the unit for no charge, but still only have the original 8 hrs. If it is an extemely small unit (such as the one with a mower engine mentioned above) it probably does not have an hour meter and is truly a daily rent.

The warning to check how the machine was rented seems valid, since the OP is hoping to rent for one day and keep the machine longer (3 days).

 

[csp]

The electrical feed line to my house is 36" deep and I rented a walk behind from Home Depot to dig it. No Hobbs meter on this particular machine and I paid their 8hour rate for it.

Yes, it is absolutely correct that the terms of the rental should be understood. That goes without saying with any tool/equipment rental.

The point (which was entirely missed and blown out of proportion) is that the non-commercial rental places (Home Depot, Rent-X, etc.) have flat rates which are not dependant on hour meters. My statement was made in reaction to the following post, which was not specific as to what types of rental companies are those considered as "most places". You average homeowner (ie the OP) is going to go to a rental company that caters to Joe Homeowner. "Most" depends entirely on the frame of reference.

Most places don't rent a 'day', the rent 'time' as in 1 day = 8 hrs of hobbs time. Make sure you understand what they are charging for or be ready for a bigger (WAY BIGGER) bill.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

I have a problem with you having the site marked the day before you plan to dig. If you are talking about marking underground utilities, you better call about a week ahead of time! They say 48 hours to have marking done, but that doesn't include weekends, holidays, or the fact that sometimes the marking guys cant find your address! Plan ahead for this or you may have a problem! Ask me how I know? Frustrated Contractor! LOL

 

[miner]

How the hell do you put a hobbs meter on 'tools'. Your lack of common sense makes your entire post merit-less.

Yes, TOOLS are 24 hours. DUH.

Powered equipment (aka an engine), thats a different story.
NO ONE is renting powered equipment for 24 hour use. Unless its basically toy homeowner stuff.

I can't believe I had to actually say this.

You sure are grumpy. You are also wrong. I rented a bobcat from Sunbelt for 24 hours and used if for approximately 16 of those 24 hours. No meter, no extra charge.

 

[John Timmins]

I rented a trencher called a Trench Master. They have a web site if you want to see what it looks like. The model I used makes a 7 inch deep trench and it's about 2 inches wide. I dug a 60 foot trench, and two 20 footers to bury abuot 100 feet of PVC.

My yard was sandy and there were no wires to worry about. I did all the trenching in about 1/2 hour.

The rental place had a couple of versions and I told them I had no helper, and the bigger unit would take 2-3 men to get it in and out of the back of the pickup.

They rented me 2 ramps for $5 (but forgot to charge me) and 4 hours of the Trench Master for $65...$75 for the day. The fuel tank was full when I rented it and after using it, I did not add any - it still looked full.

My advise...get the lighter duty trencher that you can roll up and down from a pickup. The 7 inch trench is deep enough for the irrigation lines. You lower the spinning blade into the ground and walk backward over marks you made in your yard with spray paint.

 

[pfarber]

You sure are grumpy. You are also wrong. I rented a bobcat from Sunbelt for 24 hours and used if for approximately 16 of those 24 hours. No meter, no extra charge.

Then you paid for 24 hours of use. Vehicles wear out. The only way to recoup that wear is to charge for the time it is used.

If there really is a place renting equipment for 24 hours and no hobbs time post it... I'd drive quite a ways to get a full 24 hours of hobbs time on a bobcat and only pay for one day.

Now are there mom and pop shops that might do this? Yes, but they are the exception, not the rule.

And as stated, unless you know FOR SURE, IN WRITING the clerk can say whatever he wants. You bring back a rental with 15 hours of use on an 8 hour rental you are paying. Period.

 

[skyking]

I used a rider, had a lot of rocks ,105 feet took about 2hours.Rough ride,jumps like heck when you hit a rock.

 

[miner]

Then you paid for 24 hours of use. Vehicles wear out. The only way to recoup that wear is to charge for the time it is used.

If there really is a place renting equipment for 24 hours and no hobbs time post it... I'd drive quite a ways to get a full 24 hours of hobbs time on a bobcat and only pay for one day.

Now are there mom and pop shops that might do this? Yes, but they are the exception, not the rule.

And as stated, unless you know FOR SURE, IN WRITING the clerk can say whatever he wants. You bring back a rental with 15 hours of use on an 8 hour rental you are paying. Period.

I see, so even though I was the one who paid and signed the papers, you know what I MUST REALLY have paid. Do you also know what time of day I take a ****? LOL.

 

[purplezr2]

500 feet is nothing with a walk behind, I have done miles behind one when building a golf course as most of the stuff around the greens is done this way. I have done about 3000 feet+ in two long days. This is sandy/rocky soil with roots and some clay.

 

[coljar]

That is a BIG job. I have a friend that works for the gas company and another guy he works with does trenching on the side with a ride on unit. He done a big trenching job for me and he charged a reasonable price, cheaper than I could do it myself. Talk to the gas man that covers your area because they always know someone that does that kind of work on the side. Your back will thank you.