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Trench Drain Outlets

Rotaris

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Apr 28, 2010
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Hello All


I am trying to figure the best thing to do with my Two trench drain outlets.

It gets to -40c here in the winter.

Currently I have two 4 inch outlets to daylight. They run about 10 feet out the side of my shop.

I was thinking that first winter I would just try putting a 45 on the end and burying that in a bed of about a yard of washed rock. Only would be about 1, or two feet below ground.?

Lets here it fellas. Everybody around her complains of frozen drains and nobody seems to do anything about it. (Except plumbing antifreeze or windsheild washer fluid once in awhile)
 
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dieselgarage

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Dec 18, 2012
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I have been thinking the same thing. I just set 33 feet of trench drain for my shop. With the drain line running 60 feet the length of the building. I'm going to run the condensate from the boiler for the in-floor heat to that drain. Hoping it will keep the drain from freezing. I'm pretty sure I'll have a problem. So I'll take a plan "B" from your thread.
 

Jagmandave

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Overland Park, Ks.
You're worried about the end freezing, or the whole thing letting cold air into the shop? Why not wrap the end with heat tape? Inexpensive and you just unplug it when the weather warms up again.....
 

sands35

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St. Joseph, MI
About the only practical way to avoid a frozen drain is to get it below the frost line.

But by definition, french drains should drain surface water - which should be frozen anyway - so why worry? Maybe during a thaw, the surface will melt before the ground will un-freeze, but then you should have the property graded and perhaps a holding pond for storm overflow. Snow melt up north can be as bad as a heavy rain down south.

If you are dumping condensate down the french drain, why not put it in a barrel for the winter? Or plumb it into the sewer (code issue with that one?).
 

kbs2244

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The slope of the local area will have a lot to due with this.
Any PICs?
 
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Rotaris

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I have a fair bit of slope and am not worried about drain itself freezing but the outlets. When ground is frozen where Can the water go? I think the only way is to get below frost line.

Damb this shop is starting to piss me off. Nothing is easy or cheap!

Trying to figure out how to insert pictures from phone.....Standby
 
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Zeke

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Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
Not a frozen drain expert, but by nature landscape drains should have no standing water to freeze. If the water doesn't drain well into the gravel trap, I guess it will back up and freeze or freeze and back up, whichever way it works.

So it would seem to me that the gravel has to be coarse and extend below the frost line.

How do folks with leach fields handle this?
 
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Rotaris

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Frost line here is about 6 feet.........

Pictures must be too big, no idea what I am doing....floor drains 005 (Small).jpg
 

bczygan

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DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
The first purpose of a french drain is to gather water. To that end, you need to make sure all the water you want to divert is funneled to the drain. You don't want perforated pipe to do this as it will disperse in the same location that it collects in.
Use downspouts, sloped hard surfaces and trench drains to get water into your drain(s).

The second purpose is to transfer the water to a different area. To do this, you may want to make at least part of the drain solid, so it doesn't disperse water until you get it where you want it to go. Then you can use part of the drain line to disperse water, even before it gets to the discharge point or gravel filled pit.

The drain itself needs to be sized so as to accommodate the quantity and flow of water that you expect to have.

Slope should be a minimum of 1/8" per foot, but ideally 1/4" per foot.

Don't forget to cover your perforated lines with geotextile socks to prevent silting up of the lines.

All the water you divert needs to go somewhere. If you have a natural ditch or watercourse, then you can send it there. Otherwise you need either enough leeching capability, or retention combined with leeching, to accommodate it.

Leeching can happen in lines or into a covered pit or open air pond.
Investigation of the soil type is important in determining what kind of, and how much area you need to leech the water flow you have.

In cold areas, deeper is better for lines and pits.

That said, it looks like you just have a couple of inside trench drains that might get a bit of melting snow off some cars. Unless you wash cars in there, or have a river flowing through the building, then what you have will be adequate as long as it slopes properly and has somewhere to go. If you are just draining the interior drains, I would make it solid (Not perforated) until well outside the building, then go perforated. Don't over think it.

Bill (I've designed retention ponds and drainage systems)

PS: You should think of your entire site, and even surrounding sites, as part of one big drainage system. When designing drainage on a site, I look at surrounding terrain, and find all the adjoining land that is higher. This land contributes runoff to my site and must be taken into account. Then all the hard surfaces (Buildings and paving) on my site must be used in calculations to determine the quantity and rate of water to accommodate.

The general rule that jurisdictions require, at least for commercial work, is that you retain water, and only let it flow into storm sewer systems, at the rate it would from your undeveloped site. So ponds are sized to retain the excess flow and their outlets are restricted to that undeveloped flow rate.
 
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readhead

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Durango, Co.
Around here we turn the drain down inside the building and have it exit through or under the footing into a dry well below the frost line.
 
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Rotaris

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o.k. thanks guys, bcyzgan..thanks for all the info. I have sandy soil so I think if I just continue straight down into ground with a rock bed with geotextile over it I should be ok.

Im just thinking 5 years of washing rocks and **** down the floor drains it will eventually get plugged. Guess I install some sort of screen before it leaves the shop.

Curious if guys have buried a drum??

I just want it done and never have to worry about it again.
 

bczygan

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Put the filter fabric around the rock to prevent infiltration of fines.
Use a drum if you like, but cut holes in it and take the bottom out.
If you have sandy soils, the drum will help you dig down without cave-ins.
Use solid pipe all the way to the drum.
Cover the area of the drum with some hard surface or top that is bigger than the diameter of the drum. This will keep surface water in this area from filling the hole as readily. Mound the area up to make rain and snow melt flow away too.
You could also install a filter box near the start of the line. Inside or outside will work, but in your situation, with floors poured, outside is the answer.
All this is probably "belt and suspenders", but that's OK.
 

8flat

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I did the same thing, put the pipe into a hole filled with rock, worked great. But if I did it again I'd add a drum with holes drilled in it.
 

theoldwizard1

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SE MI
Frost line here is about 6 feet.........
If that is true, then even your bed of gravel will be frozen. You must be near the arctic circle because I don't know any place in the US where the frost line is below 48".

What you want is a Flo-Well dry well.

According to their drawing the pit only need to be 3' deep, but I would go a lot deeper in your climate.
 

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csp

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Franktown, CO
The first purpose of a french drain is to gather water.

The OP said Trench drain, not french drain!

Look at his pictures. It's a floor drain in the garage/shop floor. That's where the rocks are coming from that he mentioned. It's not fines going into a perforated pipe.

I have a hard time believing your "expertise" in all of these building topics after seeing the mess you have of your own. I think you're an expert in cutting and pasting from other websites and taking credit for it.
 

theoldwizard1

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The first purpose of a french drain is to gather water. .

Actually, the first purpose of a french drain is to move near surface water from a area that has too much to someplace else. It the drain is continued on into that lower, dry area, the water will be dispersed there.

The OP said Trench drain, not french drain!
True, but what the OP is trying to figure out is how to get rid of that water. A french drain will do this, assuming that is runs underground in an area that is below the level that the water is gathered at and not in an area prone to near surface water table level.

Also, many people confuse a french drain with a dry well.
 
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KPSquared

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Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
Dig hole 8 feet deep. Throw a 45 gallon drum with the top and bottom cut off just to contain some loose rock. Fill it with rock. Run the drain lines into that drum (bury those deep as well) Unless you're on crazy compact clay, the water should all just go away.

That's how we have a couple done here. 6' of frost is not to bad. . .just gotta be prepared to dig. All our water lines are at least 8' deep here.
 
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Rotaris

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O.K. thanks guys.....KP2 thanks yeah My water lines to the shop will be around 8 as well. Thanks everyone.....wish I owned a hoe,skid steer, mini-hoe, ditch witch, etc etc. oh well hope this projects done before snow flys!
 
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