TRW Tools

[JMConey]

I've seen threads about TRW tools here and there, on this board and others. So I thought I'd share my own experiences with TRW Hand tools.

Back in the 1980’s I worked at a parts warehouse and had a 6 car garage. I was always working on something. At the time I was in discussions with a guy who wanted to sell his garage and 2 acre junk yard. I spent an obscene amount on tools to gear up. I liked TRW parts and since they had entered the tools market place with an unlimited life-time warrantee much like Snap-on, Mac and Craftsman, I decided to go with TRW. I even bought a TRW parts cabinet and other TRW branded items.

I bought almost everything in the catalog. Multiple sets of sockets and wrenches, specialty tools, the works.

Details are a little fuzzy these days but:

The deal for the business fell through but I was happy with my tools and continued working on cars in my garage. As time went I started a box for tools that had broken and accumulated them for several years, always intending to go swap them. I finally got around to swapping the broken Craftsman’s which were accepted without question. But when I went back to the store to swap the TRW’s they told me “we don’t sell them anymore”.

I searched around but couldn't find anyone who did. (Pre-Internet). So I called TRW. And was told “Oh yeah, we did have a tool line but we got out of the tool business a couple years ago”. So I asked what about the unlimited lifetime warrantee? To which they just said “we got out of the tool business a couple years ago”. So I said “so you’re not honoring your warrantee?” which was answered the same way.

So I explained that I had been a customer of theirs for many years and paid higher prices for their tools based of the fact that the company had been around a while, had a good reputation for parts and most of all for the excellent warrantee, and now I’m basically screwed? I got the answer “Yeah, you’re screwed, Sorry but we can’t do anything for you”.

Since that day I have never put one more penny in TRW’s pocket. I won’t even buy them used. I could understand if they had gone out of business but they didn't they just killed the product line and screwed the suckers like me that over spent on their over priced tools thinking they were A: Quality, B: Reputable and C: Covered by a good warrantee.

I have spent the past 30 years telling people to stay away from companies like TRW that don’t honor their warrantee. Even if they had given me a credit towards other TRW products in exchange it would have been better than telling me I’m screwed. Although more have broken and some have "disappeared" like tools tend to do over the years, I still have a lot of TRWs tools much to my dismay.

Has any one else had a similar experience with TRW or other tool manufacturer?

 

[mikebaker1129]

I have 3 or 4 pieces marked TRW tool wise. I believe they were affiliated with JH Williams and Greenfield.

TRW M14 parts on the other hand are highly prized for their quality and sell for $$$$.

 

[BarryWells]

Yeah. I have drawers full of Proto. If something blows odds are I'll get something better than the turn in. Old School.
Snap-On is about the same.You bust a 70 you get a dual as a replacement. No whining there. Mac IS Proto---to a point.
Lesson. Chevy or Ford ?
AMC and Plymouth ?

 

[4xdog]

I have a set of TRW combination wrenches areound here someplace, inherited from my brother, I think. They seem OK, if otherwise unremarkable.

30+ years is a long time to hold what it in the end is a minor grudge. Let it go. Life’s too short!

 

[woody 73]

OP I enjoyed your History lesson very much two thumbs up...

I have TRW tools no problems to speak of, if they break not a big deal I just toss them and find another replacement. Still I will keep your post History lesson in the back of my mind when I see any of their tools for sale.

 

[sk farmer]

2 posts in 4.5 years, both of them today........


that seems even more odd than this topic. i have only had one trw tool i can think of. a square chrome pry bar about 16 or so inches long with a 15 degree offset on one end a 90 on the other. that thing was handy as hell and one day it just up and disappeared. one of the few tools i have ever lost and one i would replace in a heartbeat if i could.

 

[sberry]

I remember seeing them in parts stores. But how much we talking about here? A real fortune?

 

[vssjim]

TRW owned Williams Tool company at one point which was on Vulcan Street in Buffalo NY. So there was Williams Tools for Industrial markets TRW Tools for Retail automotive tools and Vulcan Tools for a tool truck direct sales.
So when TRW wanted out of the tool business during one of the down turns they sold Williams to Snap on which ended TRW hand tools and Vulcan tools as a tool company. I have been told when they moved south a lot of the old forges that were built in the floor and such where just left behind to be scrapped. Basically S-O bought a company for a name and government contracts
TRW as a company has been built up to a massive corporation and sold off split up rebuilt names changes come and gone and I doubt anybody can tell what is still in or out of business and where they are and such.

 

[JMConey]

I remember seeing them in parts stores. But how much we talking about here? A real fortune?

It's been a while since I was back here Sorry it took me so long to reply but...

As I said I was ramping up my garage and hoping to take over a existing business. Keep in mind that this was the early 80s, I was fresh out of school and only making about $7-8/hr.

I spent a little over $11,000 on tools and equipment of which about $7,000+ was on TRW tools, fixtures and related items. (not including automotive parts). While this may not seem like much to some of you, at the time it was a fortune for me to lay out. Because it was a major investment, I relied on the fact that there was an unlimited lifetime warranty. I also opt'ed for TRW tools because of my experience with their auto parts. Otherwise I would have invested in MAC, Snap-on or Craftsman.

In hindsight, and we always know that's the best, I should have gone with the other companies as I know from experience, unlike TRW, they stand behind their products and have never told me "Yeah, you're screwed". (yes that's actually what the person on the phone said).

Some of you say 30 years is a long time to hold a grudge, and yes it is. But just how many times and how deeply do you have to be screwed over before you tell others to stay away from a company? I figure for every tool of theirs I break, I'm screwed al over again. Not so with their competitors.

About a couple years ago, I returned a craftsman screw driver that had to be 40 years old after the handle cracked and came off. No questions asked, the guy in the store said "wow, that's an old one" and handed me another one. Now with the demise of K-Mart and Lowe's starting to sell them. we'll have to wait and see if anything changes. I hope not.

 

[woody 73]

I hear you, I spent all my money on air tools and now it is all about cordless tools...So I spent all my money on Dewalt cordless tools and those sob's changed their battery platforms; so either I buy the gizmo that attaches to the tool so that you can use a new battery or ditch them all for another company altogether. Sometimes you win some, sometimes you lose and sometimes you break even.

 

[four.cycle]

TRW went on a buying frenzy in the early 1980s during the **** of corporate takeovers and acquisitions.
One of the other companies they bought was the C.E. Niehoff Co. of Chicago, a brand that (at the time) we had been selling for about 40 years. The product line immediately went totally to **** - all kinds of offshore outsourced stuff started showing up in Niehoff boxes, but the invoices still had the blue-chip Niehoff prices posted on them.
I switched all our ignition and electrical over to Wells out of Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, and the hydraulic brake parts over to Master (a division of Airtex at that time.)

Sorry about your "warranty" experience, but it's certainly not unique to TRW (or Niehoff or any of the other companies who became victims of the unbridled avarice of the 1980s and 1990s corporate world.)

For the record: the "TRW" tool line was manufactured by Williams, and was actually a great product. (As was "Columbia Tap & Die", another victim of the TRW feeding frenzy.)

 

[woody 73]

Somewhere I have a TRW tap and die set , four cycle very nice set.

 

[finn]

Kind of silly to hold a grudge against a company that no longer exists.

TRW was sold to Northrop Grumman in 2002, 18 years ago. Northrop sold the Automotive Division to ZF in, I think, 2007, 13 years ago.

TRW, as the op knew it, is long gone.

 

[Steve_P]

Wait till the OP finds out Studebaker is out of business and he can't get OE parts!!!

 

[INSP380]

I have a Aunt that worked for TRW, every year they had a warehouse sale that was unfrickinbelieveable! The line went around the building to get in, once you were in you grabbed a box the size of a pallet and went to town filling it. Anything and everything, from battery chargers to paint, from tools to parts to ice scrapers and squeegees. They’d look at your box and say $20....Best sales I’ve ever been to! 35 years later I’m still using the stuff...TRW rocked!

Steve

 

[ChrisLS8]

You need a new hobby. Going around telling people to avoid a line of tools that no longer exists for 30 plus years seems a bit odd

 

[vssjim]

I forgot to go to Monkey Wards on my way home tonight and pick up a replacement ratchet head kit too.

PS I sti;; have some TRW metric sockets and wrenches and large 1/2 ratchet I use all the time.

 

[vssjim]

I have a Aunt that worked for TRW, every year they had a warehouse sale that was unfrickinbelieveable! The line went around the building to get in, once you were in you grabbed a box the size of a pallet and went to town filling it. Anything and everything, from battery chargers to paint, from tools to parts to ice scrapers and squeegees. They’d look at your box and say $20....Best sales I’ve ever been to! 35 years later I’m still using the stuff...TRW rocked!

Steve

That warehouse was for the TRW Service Line products which was all kinds of Farm and Gas station and home type of products same as NAPA Balkamp stuff that still lives today. I still have some stuff from back then like a battery filler and drain pan etc.

 

[WittHay]

Couple of places up here had large displays of Armstrong tools. Good thing, I bought thousand of dollars worth of them. Made in USA and a lifetime warranty. Just kidding

Vulcan and Bonney are a couple of brands from the past that people probably had large collections of. No guarantee that Williams USA will be around forever.

 

[ChrisLS8]

I forgot to go to Monkey Wards on my way home tonight and pick up a replacement ratchet head kit too.

PS I sti;; have some TRW metric sockets and wrenches and large 1/2 ratchet I use all the time.

I'm gonna hit up a Bon Marche sale this weekend methinks

 

[Steve_P]

Couple of places up here had large displays of Armstrong tools. Good thing, I bought thousand of dollars worth of them. Made in USA and a lifetime warranty. Just kidding

Vulcan and Bonney are a couple of brands from the past that people probably had large collections of. No guarantee that Williams USA will be around forever.

Williams is part of Snap On, along with Bahco; I doubt either is going anywhere soon.

 

[DadsTools]

I dug up a post I made a couple of years ago that I'll paste here just for reference (found it while searching in a link provided in Lugz' sticky--good reference source!). Top my knowledge, TRW branded end wrenches were made in the Williams factory when it was owned by TRW. TRW did NOT sell Williams to Snap-on, they sold it in 1984 to Polaris Capital Group, which formed the company Williams Hand Tools. It was liquidated a couple of years later--Snap-on only bought the intellectual property, everything else was long gone. I wish I could find my original post with all the extensive research I did re: Greenfield/Williams/Vulcan/TRW--the following is a later post where I was trying to recollect the details about that earlier post. This also has info about Vulcan. Hope someone find it useful or interesting.

I conducted some detailed research into Vulcan sometime last year. I can't recall all the details at the moment, but I posted them somewhere on the board. IIRC, Williams was purchased by Greenfield in 1958, then Greenfield was acquired by TRW around 1968. The Vulcan line was introduced around that time as an industrial grade truck tool to be sold off trucks to compete with SO & Mac. They were indeed made at the Williams factory, and other than the markings, the forgings are mostly identical to the Williams equivalents.

Sometime during the late 1970s (could never quite pin the year down because of a lack of catalogs from that period), TRW moved Williams away from an automotive/mechanics line to position it as an industrial tool line. I believe it was around this time that the Vulcan line was discontinued, as it now was redundant. TRW changed the company name from JH Williams & Co. to Williams Industrial. TRW then began to pare the name down on the Williams tools, starting first with the removal of "& Co." followed by "J.H." and finally discontinuing the "Super-" moniker. The last Williams trademark on the tools was just the name Williams in the now-familiar sans serif rounded font with an uppercase W and the rest in lowercase still used by Snap-on.

Eventually the Vulcan trademark was sold to an importer in California that intended to use it on imported tools but went belly-up. Last record of the trademark was somewhere in the 1990s when it was owned by a bank, apparently part of assets acquired on a defaulted loan. The trademark was never renewed or traded after that time.

TRW divested itself of Williams in 1984, and the company became Williams Hand Tools. It went bankrupt in 1986, and its assets were liquidated. There is no evidence that Williams tools were manufactured after that date. From my research, it's uncertain whether tools were even being made during the 1984-86 period. Two artifacts I have may indicate that at least during that two-year period, Williams was still making tools for TRW on contract. One is a DOE that is clearly a Williams Industrial era design bearing both the last Williams trademark name and TRW. Another is a combo having a rectangular raised panel (the panel being similar in shape and style to a C-man) that is clearly a Williams-made wrench but bearing only the TRW name and using different model numbers than on Williams wrenches.

When Snap-on bought the line in 1993, it only acquired the trademarks and intellectual property, everything else was already gone.

That's about what I can recall.

 

[JMConey]

What!!!! Studebaker is out of business oh no!

Seriously, I do hold this grudge and I bet you would to with a similar experience. But the tool line is just a symptom of the company and how it treats it's customers.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I would submit more a symptom of what happened to American industrial manufacturing in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, when we went from being the world's industrial leader to producing not much more than consumers for other countries' products.
It was not just TRW that went through that. The list of American manufacturers who have gone by the wayside or whose products are now manufactured offshore is without end.
The old "Thompson" and the much-revered "Clevite 77" brands have gone the way of the Pontiac cast-iron V8 engine - fading memories in the minds of old car buffs.
The choices are to look hopefully to the future, or bemoan the demise of business practices and products that outlived their usefulness.

 

[WittHay]

Williams is part of Snap On, along with Bahco; I doubt either is going anywhere soon.

I might be off based but I was thinking that Williams would be a import tool line instead of having some tools made in the US. Snap-on makes large runs of Dual 80 ratchets and then has to make some limited runs of Williams in the same factory and sell them cheaper. I have no idea of Williams sales figures or who buys it. i imagine some industrial or government contracts still require a certain amount of US made, That could change in the future

 

[WittHay]

^ I would submit more a symptom of what happened to American industrial manufacturing in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, when we went from being the world's industrial leader to producing not much more than consumers for other countries' products.
It was not just TRW that went through that. The list of American manufacturers who have gone by the wayside or whose products are now manufactured offshore is without end.
The old "Thompson" and the much-revered "Clevite 77" brands have gone the way of the Pontiac cast-iron V8 engine - fading memories in the minds of old car buffs.
The choices are to look hopefully to the future, or bemoan the demise of business practices and products that outlived their usefulness.

Lot of changes happened in the 80's. Companies were shut down, split up , brands discontinued. I have never heard of TRW tools but have some Vulcan and have run across some old Williams.

When a brand or division gets sold its up to the new owner to carry on and provide warranty or parts. Ingersoll-Rand sold Proto to Stanley in 1984. The brand kept going. When TRW sold Williams around the same time , the new owners basically went broke and shut Williams down . I dont think that is TRW's fault

Not much the average guy can do.

 

[MJO]

They still are obligated to cover the warranty as long as they are in business and you meet the obligations of the warranty (some warranties require the receipt, etc.), you should be able to buy similar replacement tools and they are obligated to pay for them although you might have to sue them to get the money. I'd probably just write it off unless you're bored and have lots of time on your hands.

 

[sberry]

How many of them broke and need replacement? All of them?

 

[finn]

They still are obligated to cover the warranty as long as they are in business and you meet the obligations of the warranty (some warranties require the receipt, etc.), you should be able to buy similar replacement tools and they are obligated to pay for them although you might have to sue them to get the money. I'd probably just write it off unless you're bored and have lots of time on your hands.

You can’t sue an entity that no longer exists. Corporations are structured such that when a division is sold or shutdown, the mother company is absolved of liability.for things like warranty.

If TRW, or any company, for that matter, closes their tool division, and no longer has factories, inventory, warehouses, or employees, how can they provide warranty?

Especially if they sold the business to someone who then goes bankrupt.

 

[3baygarage]

We'll need to see your TRW collection in order to offer any further advice.

 

[MJO]

You can’t sue an entity that no longer exists. Corporations are structured such that when a division is sold or shutdown, the mother company is absolved of liability.for things like warranty.

If TRW, or any company, for that matter, closes their tool division, and no longer has factories, inventory, warehouses, or employees, how can they provide warranty?

Especially if they sold the business to someone who then goes bankrupt.

When Monkey Wards got out of the tool business they made an agreement with Sears so you could exchange your broken lifetime warranty PowrKraft tools for Craftsman at Sears. J C Penney sold tools with a lifetime warranty, if you have a broken one they just pays you for it at replacement value for a similar tool. A company still in business is still obliged to honor their warranty whether or not they no longer carry that type of product.

The new SK was replacing tools sold by the bankrupt SK, even though they probably don't have to.



.

 

[finn]

When Monkey Wards got out of the tool business they made an agreement with Sears so you could exchange your broken lifetime warranty PowrKraft tools for Craftsman at Sears. J C Penney sold tools with a lifetime warranty, if you have a broken one they just pays you for it at replacement value for a similar tool. A company still in business is still obliged to honor their warranty whether or not they no longer carry that type of product.

The new SK was replacing tools sold by the bankrupt SK, even though they probably don't have to.



.

In this case, TRW sold the business. Lock, stock, barrel, and warranty obligations. The next company failed. TR w isn’t obligated to do anything.

Moot point, though, as TRW itself has been gone for years.

 

[WittHay]

Ideal sells SK Tools tomorrow to Joe Blow Venture Capital. JBVC decides to expand and modernize the factory. They run out of money and shut down in 2022. SK Tools is no more.

Who is responsible for the lifetime warranty when it is not a retail house brand and the manufacturer does not exist anymore. My thinking there is no warranty

 

[MJO]

In this case, TRW sold the business. Lock, stock, barrel, and warranty obligations. The next company failed. TR w isn’t obligated to do anything.

Moot point, though, as TRW itself has been gone for years.

TRW ( https://www.trwaftermarket.com/us/) appears to still be around, not sure if it's the same guys or not. Selling off the tool division unless they sold their name, which they didn't back then, doesn't remove their obligations.

 

[JMConey]

eh, No advice needed at this time, really just relating an experience from my past. I appreciate all the comments though.

At the time, in hind sight, I probably could have taken some sort of action, I always wondered how many others were stuck but as it's been pointed out the company has changed hands into oblivion. When TRW pulled the plug, I hope the good people did well and that the shiftless ones got theirs but that's not the way it tends to happen.

As for how many pieces have broken over the past 36+ years. Lots. Mostly sockets, ratchet mechanisms and a few others. I can be hard on tools at times depending on the job at hand, which takes me back to why I sought tools with an unlimited lifetime warranty in the first place. I no longer do the vehicle work that I once did and since then Craftsman and Snap-on have filled the gaps.

 

[finn]

TRW ( https://www.trwaftermarket.com/us/) appears to still be around, not sure if it's the same guys or not. Selling off the tool division unless they sold their name, which they didn't back then, doesn't remove their obligations.

Click on the site and you’ll see reference to ZF, the current owner of the TRW brand.

Tools were sold off well before ZF took over the TRW brand. Don’t remember if a bankruptcy was involved. ZF has no tool business, and never has, to my knowledge.

tWW made internal engine parts at least through the 90s. Things like pistons, rings, and valves. I was in some of their plants at the time. They had some good people in Engineering, well respected in the industry, but the plants were largely old, dirty, WWII surplus facilities, with little in the way of modern tooling and processes.

Their bigger business was steering and suspension components, and braking systems.

I think ZF bought them for the brake system technology...anti lock and stability control systems. TRW as a company no longer exists, although the brand is still in use by ZF, apparently, for aftermarket parts distribution.

I’m pretty sure the tool portion of TRW was divested, and firmly dead, before the 90s.

Lifetime is only as long as the company is in existence. The warranty goes away from the parent when the division that made that product.is sold to a new owner.

 

[INSP380]

That warehouse was for the TRW Service Line products which was all kinds of Farm and Gas station and home type of products same as NAPA Balkamp stuff that still lives today. I still have some stuff from back then like a battery filler and drain pan etc.

For the most part. My Aunt was charge of the catalogs, I got hard copies of everything. I just spoke to a friend that worked in the warehouse and set the whole thing up. We had quite a laugh today discussing it. He said paint was a biggie, guys would resell it by the case at flee markets.

Funny story, after they closed down, I came home to find 3 big boxes on my front porch from a print company. Here, it was all the original art they used on the calendars. I have the entire run. They called and needed to know what to do with it, somehow my address showed up.

Steve

 

[DadsTools]

For the most part. My Aunt was charge of the catalogs, I got hard copies of everything. I just spoke to a friend that worked in the warehouse and set the whole thing up. We had quite a laugh today discussing it. He said paint was a biggie, guys would resell it by the case at flee markets.

Funny story, after they closed down, I came home to find 3 big boxes on my front porch from a print company. Here, it was all the original art they used on the calendars. I have the entire run. They called and needed to know what to do with it, somehow my address showed up.

Steve

Any TRW hand tool catalogs from, say, 1975 to 1985?

 

[sberry]

They were and cost about the same as Sears, they worth about 50 cents in the grab box at flea or pawn. Seems you got others, replacements etc. It would also be different if a guy paid truck prices. This is worn, depreciated generic , 30 rs since it was made, no real cash value. Can be replaced easily for less than lunch money.

 

[INSP380]

Any TRW hand tool catalogs from, say, 1975 to 1985?

Sorry to say catalogs are all gone. I had em all, every year. I really just took it for granted, hindsight and all.

Steve