Trying not to get robbed

[catfish500 mark]

I drive a truck for a living, am single, live alone and my neighbor just moved.I feel like my home and especially my shop has a giant "NO ONES HERE TAKE WHAT YOU WANT" sign in the front yard.I have taken all valuables out of my house so not to worried about that but the shop is a different story.I live in the boonies so even the sheriff takes 1/2 hour to get there.I do however have an alarm system, not monitored but very loud so the neighbors a quarter mile away can hear it.I want to install cameras.As we all know the first thing a thief will do is cut the phone and internet lines then kill the power.I was wondering if there is a way to make my cameras and recording device run for a week at a time just on a 12 volt battery supply.I was thinking of maybe 2 or more deep cycle marine batteries with a quality charger hooked to them so once they dropped below a certain voltage the charger would come on and recharge them.Of coarse the system would run off of a DC to AC power inverter.Also going to put up a steel gate across the driveway to maybe prevent someone from driving up to the shop.My main intention is to catch the person and prosecute the snot out them.I have checked into systems with battery back up but its only good for an hour or so.Just looking for opinions and options Thanks

 

[Toxictom]

Maybe a game camera would work for you.

 

[planecrazy29]

What about a small solar powered system? It's exactly what you are asking about with the added benefit of recharging itself. There are systems out there that could run cameras for months but batteries get big and expensive.

 

[Notgrownup]

SO what is your address and when will you be gone again??? LOL... JUst kidding dude... I worry about my stuff, I am actually meeting with the alarm Co. tomorrow to get a quote.

 

[rlitman]

You'd need an awful lot of batteries to run for a week.

There's two ways to look at it.
1) have it trigger an alarm at power loss, and have enough battery to run until you can respond (say 2 hours), or
2) go off the grid. Set up a solar system, and have enough batteries AND low enough draw to run continuously.

 

[markietas]

Maybe a game camera would work for you.

IMO a game camera is a bad plan.

The chance of it actually getting a good picture of a face or a licence plate isn't high, and as soon as they see it they will destroy it.

At least with a security camera even if they destroy the camera you will have they video of them doing it on your DVR (which should be in a hidden secure place).

 

[CNGsaves]

+1 on solar charged battery backup. Maybe even a conventional 120v UPS for the security system, that is charged with the battery/solar setup (ie small inverter ran by DC battery/solar that AC charged your UPS).

Setup batch process that emails the video file to cloud (ie offsite storage) every so often so perp couldn't destroy all evidence if had been staking out house prior to break-in.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I want to install cameras.

Cameras are NOT a good deterrent. Most thieves ignore then, cover their face or try to destroy them and then rob you.

You need steel reinforced door jams, a heavy metal door grate and grates on all of the windows. If you ave an electric garage door opener, fix it so that it can NOT be easily operated manually and then hide the wires and the interior opening button,

Exterior motion lights on all sides.

I was wondering if there is a way to make my cameras and recording device run for a week at a time just on a 12 volt battery supply.I was thinking of maybe 2 or more deep cycle marine batteries with a quality charger hooked to them so once they dropped below a certain voltage the charger would come on and recharge them

Easy ! That is called a computer Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS). Most have very small batteries because they are designed to only run a few minutes (10-30) until the equipment can properly be shut down.

To get around this, use the biggest lead acid batteries you can find. Marine deep cycle or even golf cart batteries. Keep you battery bank close to the UPS (shortest oversized wires as possible). The UPS, batteries and recording equipment need to be well hidden. The batteries should be "flooded" (old fashioned caps with where you can add water) for longest life, but then they have to be separated from the other equipment as gases from the batteries will harm it.

These show up on CL all of the time, cheap. The best are APC brand SmartUPS. Regardless of what there power rating is, you do NOT want to exceed more than 50% of that as they do not have good cooling, or you need to add some fans. I would not want to run the one in the picture for any extended time with a load of more than 200-300 watts without extra cooling.

The APC Smart UPS 1500 runs on 24VDC and you should be able to run 500-600 watts worth of equipment continuously. Up to 1000 watts with extra cooling.

 

[jgorm]

I would concentrate on theft deterrents like a large camera system, lots of motion lights, fences, barb wire, etc. Make sure that if someone gets close to your place that you can light it up like daytime. Security signs, "on Video" signs, Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again, rabid dog, etc. The reality of catching the thief with the video is slim to none. Cover the area where he could cut power, and use a cloud based backup for the camera system.

 

[HOTFR8]

If you go with a battery back up a battery tender from the mains power supply would help the system.

 

[Paul1956]

I drive a truck for a living, am single, live alone and my neighbor just moved.I feel like my home and especially my shop has a giant "NO ONES HERE TAKE WHAT YOU WANT" sign in the front yard.

Get your security system 24/7 monitored.

Setup timers such that lights in different areas come on at night.

Leave a radio or TV playing... perhaps also on a timer to come on
during the evening.

Have your mail picked up or held.

Install security doors over entrances and 3M film on the windows
to make smashing them more difficult.

Having a large dog roaming around outside might help as well but
you will need to arrange care for him while you are gone.

Is your truck parked on your property when you are home? ...that
makes telling whether you are there or not real easy. Perhaps leave
the truck in the company yard.

 

[planecrazy29]

Cameras are NOT a good deterrent. Most thieves ignore then, cover their face or try to destroy them and then rob you.

You need steel reinforced door jams, a heavy metal door grate and grates on all of the windows. If you ave an electric garage door opener, fix it so that it can NOT be easily operated manually and then hide the wires and the interior opening button,

Exterior motion lights on all sides.


Easy ! That is called a computer Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS). Most have very small batteries because they are designed to only run a few minutes (10-30) until the equipment can properly be shut down.

To get around this, use the biggest lead acid batteries you can find. Marine deep cycle or even golf cart batteries. Keep you battery bank close to the UPS (shortest oversized wires as possible). The UPS, batteries and recording equipment need to be well hidden. The batteries should be "flooded" (old fashioned caps with where you can add water) for longest life, but then they have to be separated from the other equipment as gases from the batteries will harm it.

These show up on CL all of the time, cheap. The best are APC brand SmartUPS. Regardless of what there power rating is, you do NOT want to exceed more than 50% of that as they do not have good cooling, or you need to add some fans. I would not want to run the one in the picture for any extended time with a load of more than 200-300 watts without extra cooling.

The APC Smart UPS 1500 runs on 24VDC and you should be able to run 500-600 watts worth of equipment continuously. Up to 1000 watts with extra cooling.

Gotta disagree here in some respects. Flooded batteries are old tech and not suitable for this application IMHO. They are great in a Telco CO, but not great for a UPS. AGM is pretty much the standard now and they can take way more punishment. I would also caution against a UPS for this application. Computer UPS's are designed to run for a short amount of time, typically less than 15 minutes. If you want to run for days, get a purpose-built DC-AC inverter. They come in any size imaginable. The off-grid solar system supply houses will have them.

I deal with this every day at work. The buildings I'm in charge of are set up to run for 4-8 hours on battery power with a DC load of 1500 amps. That better never happen...if it does it mean a generator didn't start and/or transfer and it would be a very bad day for me....

 

[Tronyadorable]

Land mines. If you're in the boonies they'll be driving. Make a tire spike trap. Nobody carries 4 spares. I got some mailbox molesters with one years ago. Pretty easy to find "driving"with 4 flats. Get a monitored alarm. The tire trap will give Deputy Fife plenty of time to get there.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Gotta disagree here in some respects. Flooded batteries are old tech and not suitable for this application IMHO.

There are thousands of solar/wind sites that still use flooded cells. Electric fork lifts uses flooded cell batteries. As you mentioned, Telcos use flooded cells (really, REALLY big ones !)

I would also caution against a UPS for this application. Computer UPS's are designed to run for a short amount of time, typically less than 15 minutes.

I did mention that and stated you should only run them at 50% capacity unless you add additional cooling.

If you want to run for days, get a purpose-built DC-AC inverter. They come in any size imaginable. The off-grid solar system supply houses will have them.

Yep. And they cost many time more ! Watch this UPS to 1.5kW Sinewave Inverter Conversion part9 - Will it overheat?

The buildings I'm in charge of are set up to run for 4-8 hours on battery power with a DC load of 1500 amps.

And those are NOT flooded cells ?

The computer room I was responsible for had a huge UPS. It powered the room (dozens of large server, some had 3 phase power feeds) for almost 30 minutes during the Northeast blackout of 2003. I don't recall exactly, but I believe it had over 50 12V flooded cell batteries.

 

[rlitman]

I would also caution against a UPS for this application. Computer UPS's are designed to run for a short amount of time, typically less than 15 minutes.

APC sells regular SmartUPS units, and SmartUPS XR units.
The XR stands for extended runtime, and these units come with connectors for external batteries. But the big difference is internal, as they are designed for continuous use.

The non-XR UPSs don't overheat their internals, because their internal battery greatly limits their runtime. Hook up an external battery and as theoldwizard1 said, you need to limit the current draw to prevent overheating (though I think that 50% is a bit risky). Keep it under 30%, and you should not have a problem running them continuously. It'll be as good as an inverter, so long as you understand the duty cycle.

As for batteries, I agree that SLA is far better than vented wet cell.

But, here's a thought. Double conversion comes with a hefty energy cost.
An inverter (or UPS) will probably waste more energy than you end up using. i.e., if you don't need to invert, you can probably double your battery life.

My cameras all run on 12V. My DVR has a power brick that supplies it with 12V. If everything you want to run will run on 12V, just run it right off the batteries, and charge them with a solar charge controller. No inverter.

Note that you CANNOT do this with most UPS. UPS's usually use 24V or 48V battery banks (ok, I've got 120VDC and 540VDC stuff at work, but we're talking about the small stuff). It is very important that you do not draw current off of a single 12V jar in a series connected string of batteries, or else you will overcharge the other batteries.

 

[rlitman]

The computer room I was responsible for had a huge UPS. It powered the room (dozens of large server, some had 3 phase power feeds) for almost 30 minutes during the Northeast blackout of 2003. I don't recall exactly, but I believe it had over 50 12V flooded cell batteries.

We use strings of 40 SLA (aka VLRA) batteries (we happen to have two strings that are aging out right now, and will be replaced in a matter of weeks; I'm working on pricing that now). That adds up to 540VDC on float (perfect for a 3-phase 480V online UPS).
You can get about 150kVA out of each string.

Flooded batteries are not used in UPS applications because the batteries are kept in the same rooms as the inverters. The acid fumes from a flooded battery will quickly destroy electronics, and the hydrogen emitted is way to dangerous to have around electrical switchgear. Also, SLA does not experience water loss, and the slightly elevated gas pressure inside allows for much faster recharging.

 

[rsanter]

get a dog
use an auto feeder

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Land mines. If you're in the boonies they'll be driving. Make a tire spike trap. Nobody carries 4 spares. I got some mailbox molesters with one years ago. Pretty easy to find "driving"with 4 flats. Get a monitored alarm. The tire trap will give Deputy Fife plenty of time to get there.

That's actually a great idea. Spike strips! Paying for 4 new tires will teach them.

 

[404]

Can you set up a wifi with the .25 mile neighbor so they can see your cameras and record from their house? Make it a mutual thing.

Other choice is really big glue traps.

 

[rancherbill]

I'd start at the beginning with stuff to make it look like you are there.

Lights on timers comes to mind immediately. Second is keeping the grass cut so it doesn't look like you are away. There are lots of these tips to make your place look occupied.

Then I'd put up some signs that say you have a great 24 hour monitored burglar alarm. Then I would put up Visible fortifications on windows etc that will drive the lazy crooks to the next easy house.

IMHO, cameras are the very last thing. All they do is maybe get a picture that's useful in identifying a crook. You want to keep crooks away.

 

[rlitman]

Lights on timers comes to mind immediately.

Better than lights is the Fake TV.
http://www.faketv.com/

 

[theoldwizard1]

... Flooded batteries are not used in UPS applications because the batteries are kept in the same rooms as the inverters. The acid fumes from a flooded battery will quickly destroy electronics, ...

I did say separate ventilation was required.

 

[windward]

All the boonies I have ever lived in had a very low crime rate. I think I would just make sure my insurance was paid up and I had good documentation (pictures) of my stuff.


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[danieldd]

What about an electric fence surrounding the shop? Pretty hard to defeat in my humble opinion - if done right.

 

[Playwme]

All the boonies I have ever lived in had a very low crime rate. I think I would just make sure my insurance was paid up and I had good documentation (pictures) of my stuff.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Best answer yet.

 

[Heavymetalmechanic]

Set up a camera (hidden) at the beginning of your drive onto the property, catch the make, model and plate number. It will probably be a stolen truck if they are smart, but who knows. Plus it will give you a heads up when you have company.

Secure the shop as mentioned, document your belongings and read the fine print on the insurance contract.

I like the tire strip idea, but that may be against the law (boobytraps) in some areas. A heavy gate bar is also good, as long as it is always closed. A closed gate that is normally open is a big sign that you are away.

I live in a city, but use light timers when I'm away. I have one on the small TV, comes on randomly in the evenings at moderate volume.

Best of luck, and safe travels.

 

[MrGiggles]

I wouldn't set up any sort of booby traps.. That's a fast route to a lawsuit. Even if they were snooping around with intent to steal, there's no way to prove that, and you might end up buying them new tires.

There are game cameras available that send the photos to your email, so you still have the evidence if the camera gets destroyed. But you can hide them up high in a tree and camouflage them really well so they aren't seen in the first place. IR cameras don't have a visible flash so you don't need to worry about that. They might not get a definite ID, but they'll at least let you know if there is somebody snooping around. I'm no criminal, but I'd think that they would come in to investigate first, before attempting to take anything.

 

[gbh]

Better than lights is the Fake TV.
http://www.faketv.com/

I like this idea but in the commercial they state, "most burglars do not target occupied houses".
Where I live around 30% of homes are broken into while someone is home. Maybe due to the fact that burglars KNOW that any alarm system will be switched off. Also, no one has guns here.
Maybe an empty gun rack in sight of a window wouldn't hurt?

Some kind of solar system might be best for powering cameras and alarms, people on here will give plenty of knowledgable advice.

 

[finn]

I dunno, but if my neighborhood was so bad that I was uncomfortable living there, I think I'd seriously consider moving.

 

[Miss_Sissy]

I dunno, but if my neighborhood was so bad that I was uncomfortable living there, I think I'd seriously consider moving.

We are in complete agreement (at least in this thread)!

 

[MarcioWilges]

This is a really interesting topic with some great ideas here on how to get a solar-powered security system up and running. I don't quite stay out in the boonies, but I do think that this knowledge is good to keep for the scenario where any of my clients might need some advice on extra protection on the houses that they're moving too. Thanks for starting up the topic and sharing mate!

 

[Nexussian]

Cameras are great for recovery and prosecution, but they don't prevent the burglary.

If you have a yard that's visible from the street make sure it's kept, if it looks wild that will attract potential thieves.

Motion activated security lights make an effective addition to lights on a timer.

I've been looking at some LED flood lights, some are 100 watts, some are 200, like these: http://www.maxi-signal.com/high-intensity-LED-flood-lights.html

Not necessarily that brand, but if the "bad guys" are suddenly lit up like they are in the landing path of a 747, they will likely reconsider whatever they are doing (after crapping their pants).

 

[bushmechanic]

None of that stuff is going to work in the "boonies" unless you put some thought into it.

Get some insurance, as noted.

Anyone meaning to get in there will have plenty of time to do what they want and, for the most part, won't give a damn if they end up on video. A game camera is enough, but it will take a ****-load of pictures if you don't get a good one and set it up properly.

Everyone knows about timed lights. You have to supplement that.

Buy a nice looking car that's mechanically useless (can be had all over Craigslist), pop the hood, pull some of the engine out, and set it in view. Just be sure it looks like it belongs at your house... Take one of those timers and use it on a work lamp under the hood.

Keep another car there too, and have someone move it on occasion.

Leaving a television on at all times is a bit silly. Everyone knows that trick too. Get an old one with a real power switch (won't work with a new model), and put that on a timer, as well.

As said, don't let the grass grow up, and use a P.O. Box instead of your mailbox to prevent local pileup. Don't subscribe to newspapers or catalogs.

Harden your entry points to keep honest people out. Security framed glass is available. Proper framing essentially eliminates any reasonable threat. You can't break that **** with a sledge hammer. Hardened doors and frames are easy to find. The best have bolts that slide top to bottom, as well as conventionally sideways.

Disconnect any automatic garage door openers, as it's incredibly easy to cause them to open with things you can buy pretty much anywhere. Don't EVER fit a keypad outside. A padlock on either side indoors is enough to keep people out.

Security lighting is an art-form. When that light comes on, it needs to be stupid bright, and right in the face of the potential intruder. Buy the brightest you can, in wavelengths that irritate humans, and locate them in blinding locations.

If you let the Sheriff know you are gone for lengthy periods of time, he should be able to drive by every now and again to check things out. Don't be afraid to ask. It's his damned job.

If you've got people out there cutting power and communications, you've got bigger problems than someone running off with tools. In "boonies", the biggest threat is the drunken opportunist or that idiot that tears up fields with his pickup.

These morons are capable of defeating a lot of defenses, simply because they are willing to try. Discouraging them is the only way to keep them out.

You do that by attempting to look like someone's busy in there. It will hold them off for a little while. Nail them with lights if they get too close. After that, you just make the building difficult to breach. Hardened entry points are enough.

If it takes more than that, you've managed to get yourself on the wrong radar.

 

[Colotow]

couple thoughts on the cameras, first, put up a few fake ones so they wouldn't be sure they had disabled them, then set them up on 2 different systems, hopefully if a thief did try to disable the system, they would only disable one set and then you'd get some video after their guard was down,as well as the masks. Probably also set up a couple looking at likely parking places to case your shop, and park while loading.

 

[riggs1117]

Most people steal televisions during a burglary. If you can put some kind of gps tracker in a television you could find where you're stuff goes. I deal with burglaries on a weekly basis. The best physical evidence is DNA. Put some razer blades on the inside of your window sills maybe. They will try to either kick in a door or break a window to get in. I've seen solid steel doors bent in half by someone without tools

 

[Nexussian]

If you are willing, you could try one of these, they say it's legal in all 50 states (make your own decision, this is not a recommendation or endorsement by me).

http://www.burglarbomb.com/

 

[riggs1117]

Dont set any traps the police will fall into. I would probably just trap the windows, burglars go in windows and out doors. They usually leave the door open for the cops.

 

[bushmechanic]

Most people steal televisions during a burglary. If you can put some kind of gps tracker in a television you could find where you're stuff goes. I deal with burglaries on a weekly basis. The best physical evidence is DNA. Put some razer blades on the inside of your window sills maybe. They will try to either kick in a door or break a window to get in. I've seen solid steel doors bent in half by someone without tools

If you deal with break-ins on a weekly basis, you must know that nobody is going to give a rat's *** about tracking a television, nailing an opportunistic idiot with DNA isn't going to happen, and razor blades are an invitation for a lawsuit.

 

[bushmechanic]

If you are willing, you could try one of these, they say it's legal in all 50 states (make your own decision, this is not a recommendation or endorsement by me).

http://www.burglarbomb.com/

That's just going to piss someone off and invite violence later on.

One thing you cannot afford to forget is this: They already know where you live.

 

[getbent4x4]

Have a road legal car parked where you would park it, proper air in the tires, washed, like you would normally drive in the driveway. Have the shop gated off with sensors, cameras, lights, sirens, etc.