Trying not to get robbed

[nicksnothereman]

I drive a truck for a living, am single, live alone and my neighbor just moved.I feel like my home and especially my shop has a giant "NO ONES HERE TAKE WHAT YOU WANT" sign in the front yard.I have taken all valuables out of my house so not to worried about that but the shop is a different story.I live in the boonies so even the sheriff takes 1/2 hour to get there.I do however have an alarm system, not monitored but very loud so the neighbors a quarter mile away can hear it.I want to install cameras.As we all know the first thing a thief will do is cut the phone and internet lines then kill the power.I was wondering if there is a way to make my cameras and recording device run for a week at a time just on a 12 volt battery supply.I was thinking of maybe 2 or more deep cycle marine batteries with a quality charger hooked to them so once they dropped below a certain voltage the charger would come on and recharge them.Of coarse the system would run off of a DC to AC power inverter.Also going to put up a steel gate across the driveway to maybe prevent someone from driving up to the shop.My main intention is to catch the person and prosecute the snot out them.I have checked into systems with battery back up but its only good for an hour or so.Just looking for opinions and options Thanks

Just insure your ****. To live in fear is a bad way to live. Just saying man. You got other stuff to worry about like space lizards Guy robs you of a pile of junk, space lizards rob you of everything else, might even take your kids (that don't exist yet but you get what I'm saying).

Disclaimer: space lizards are real but still funny.

Not that I should say this (despite the fact that I talked about space lizards) but the ramifications of taking another persons life can be pretty severe if you're not a psychopath. Best to avoid it, especially over stuff; guy points a gun at you sure but guy steals your wheelbarrow, nah.

Disclaimer: feel free to kill as many space lizards as you want.

 

[Miss_Sissy]

The best thing you could do is get a copy of a neighbor's key and tape it to your front door with a map to their house. You don't have to make it impossible for a thief to get into your house -- you just have to make theirs easier for them to get into your neighbor's house.

Seriously, though, cameras are a good idea, including good fake ones. Most thieves will figure they can be ID'd, so they turn around and walk off as if they were just someone selling Omaha steaks or introducing people to their religion.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Dog.

 

[catfish500 mark]

Thanks for all of the great suggestions ans ideas fellas.I already have 99% of those things in place.Signs, lights, good doors, heavy gate at driveway (soon to be this weekend), items documented, and so on.As we all know its not just a stranger that will break into your home.So called friends and even family that knows your schedule will do it too.My home was broken into in Fla and come to find out it was a guy I worked with.He was there keeping an eye on me while his buddies were there taking my stuff.They were caught only because one of them said something about it to the wrong person and it got back to me.My main objective is to be able to catch the a$$ whole you does come to take my stuff.I think a good camera system both visible and hidden will be the route I take.After all locks are there just to keep honest people honest.If a damn thief wants its bad enough its gone.I did like the spike strip idea though, if it weren't for the friggin meter reader having to come up the driveway.I have been doing alot of research on pad locks.I never knew they were so easily picked.Hope the ideas keep coming they have been very interesting so far.

 

[Playwme]

Put all the good tools and items behind a fake wall that's got pegboards full of crappy tools.

My brother in law just went on an overseas holiday with his family and they were discussing what to do about security. They have an alarm system that calls them when it goes off, but that wasn't going to be practical. They eventually decided that if someone really wanted their 7 year old LCD TV or 5 year old computer they could have it. The only really valuable thing they would have left was his motorbike, but I'd already called dibs on it so it was staying at my house while they were gone anyway.

 

[ToddG]

Keep the crooks from driving up to your garage. If this means a heavy gate with a tough lock, then do it. No crook wants to haul your **** a long ways to his getaway ride...

 

[mygarageone]

Well , I too live in the boonies , I make sure I spread the word via young kids that I'll shoot anyone who's caught in my home or garage. And I will !
I have over the yrs hired some young men to work at my house , I make sure there a couple of weapons they can see , then they ask why there out , what kind etc. I tell them in no uncertain terms , the minute I see anyone on my property who is not invited , they'll see the end of the weapon.
Trust me word has gotten around because the sheriffs dept has come by asking about this.
I tell them the same thing and they warn me about not doing something stupid . I tell them Ya I know . Yea word is out I have heard from others too.
So what would really do ? Shoot the bastards , if they are in my home or garage or caught stealing something

I do have a great alarm system , my dog who knows something is going on outside when I don't. She has woke me up in the middle of the nite growling when theres a dang animal in the back yard. She knows !

 

[DonPowers]

The way i look at it is you are not going to stop a determined thief but you can help catch him/them.

I have a couple of strategically placed critter cams. The batteries will last several months and the SD cards will hold over a thousand photos.

A friend uses outdoor motion sensing lights that have a built in camera & DVR. Something like this:

http://www.surveillance-spy-cameras.com/outdoor-motion-light.htm.


There are hundreds of different types of hidden cameras available for both indoor and outdoor applications, many will operate on batteries.

 

[doojus]

OP, check out dropcam. They do cloud recording and alerts on noise and stuff so they're perfect for monitoring your stuff. As soon as you detect that someone has broken into your shop you can call up the sheriff and get him en-route and you also have the footage backed up to the cloud so you can use it to prosecute him.

We just need to get over the technical hurdle of keeping your internet and the dropcam running. The dropcam runs off USB power, so you could set an inverter up on a couple of 12v batteries and probably have months worth of run time. Also as someone else mentioned, you could run it off a computer UPS. Most of those provide USB power these days.

All of the physical security that people have suggested is fine, but ultimately if a thief has a week to chip away at it while you're gone and you have no way of knowing something is going on, it's not going to help. You need to get surveillance up.

 

[RacerRick]

me, cheap. The best are APC brand SmartUPS. Regardless of what there power rating is, you do NOT want to exceed more than 50% of that as they do not have good cooling, or you need to add some fans. I would not want to run the one in the picture for any extended time with a load of more than 200-300 watts without extra cooling.

The APC Smart UPS 1500 runs on 24VDC and you should be able to run 500-600 watts worth of equipment continuously. Up to 1000 watts with extra cooling.

Don't buy APC brand if you want longevity. They are junk and its generally thought that APC stands for "Another Poor Choice". Their batteries are garbage and they do not filter the power well. They are an offline UPS also, and you want an online one if possible.

What I would do if you want to go with a battery backup system is first determine the draw in watts of your digital DVR, switch, and cameras. I would use IR cameras that are IP based, and can use PoE, so you can just get the proper switch and only run the Cat6 cable with no extra power cables needed.

Once you have your wattage, find a used Toshiba or PowerWare UPS with bad batteries. They are very commonly used with PBX systems, and in datacenters. They are an online UPS, with excellent power filtering and battery tendering. Large companies generally will change the UPS when they change the PBX, or when moving a datacenter. They generally just go for scrap if the batteries are done.

These units will have trays of 12v sealed batteries that are easily replaced (but expensive), but you can easily convert them to wet batteries with a lot more capacity. Just use deep cycle batteries so you don't kill them. Also, don't have the battery trays in you equipment room.

You want the rated capacity to triple your wattage draw at least. I like to have 10% of the rated capacity as a draw for maximum uptime. If you use an Energy Star rated switch, the draw for the cameras and switch should only be a few hundred watts. Same for the the DVR if you leave the monitor off except for viewing playback.

With a decent sized battery bank, a setup of this type should run a DVR for days. You can decide if you need it to be self sufficient (off grid charging) or if just having a lot of uptime is ok and it charges off the municipal grid.

A trick to setting up the cameras is to know your sight lines and approaches. Then have a camera or two looking down that way. Also use as wide a field of vision as possible so the bad guys are in it as long as possible - it increases your chances of getting a picture of a face or license plate, or something identifying.

I would also put interior lights on the house on timers, and park your vehicle inside the shop as much as possible. If they are not sure if you are home or not, crooks generally will not take the chance that you are home and ready to give them a hot lead enema.

 

[cat-mechanic]

I've always wanted to try a drawbridge and mote. What kind of thief is going to want to wade through hip deep water with your stuff?

 

[Miss_Sissy]

Engrave your Valuables

There are two kinds of thieves: Those who know you own a specific thing that they want (e.g. a toolbox full of Snap-On tools, a Van Gogh painting, etc.) and those who are just opportunists who want to steal something of value, often to sell for drugs.

The former kind, who's targeting something he knows you have, is the more difficult to defeat. The opportunists are just looking for an easy score without getting caught. They don't care if the end up with a cameras, laptop computers, iPads -- as long as they can easily resell it.

I recommend engraving valuables for identification using your driver's license state and number (NOT Social Security Number) and putting signs like this all around the property:

That's likely to scare off a lot of the opportunists as well as someone targeting a specific item with the intent to resell.

 

[rockbear]

I'd heave a brick through the window and wait up the road. No police response or nosey neighbor then I know I have plenty of time to get what I want. I know the sheriff or police are a long way away. Hoody and gloves on so who cares about your cameras. Get in through the door or attached garage if you have one. Plenty of time to grab valuables. Starting with the easy, light more valuable ones and then moving on. Afterwards I'm telling friends what else I saw so they might be back too...


Some of you guys I feelare overthinking things....

Just don't worry about it and get insurance on what you can. But be aware I'll be back to get the replacements.

 

[Joe Reed]

You could get a wife so someone would always be home, but that would be much more expensive than any of the other solutions mentioned....

 

[Pack Rat]

Do you know anyone trustworthy who needs a place to live?
You could rent out a room with house priveleges.
Reduced rent for someone who watches out and does light groundskeeping.
Nothing beats actual eyes for security.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Don't buy APC brand if you want longevity. They are junk and its generally thought that APC stands for "Another Poor Choice". Their batteries are garbage and they do not filter the power well.

I think you are condemning APC for the wrong reasons.

Yes, their batteries are "limited". And the design of most (all?) of the UPS systems are such that, if the battery is truly dead, the box will not "power up" (unless you know where the magic button is !) Many APC units are sold for dirt cheap because the batteries are dead.

You are correct, they do not "filter" power as well as a true "online" UPS, but they are a fraction of the cost. They can handled a limited amount of over and under voltage.

Also, if you are building a true "off grid" house, these are NOT for you. They are only 80-85% efficient. Good off-grid inverters are 90-95% efficient.

Again, these are CHEAP ! There are several video on YouTube on how to improve their output capacity (better fans are important). There is even one that show how to convert a pair of these UPS into a true 240V split phase UPS.

 

[rlitman]

Don't buy APC brand if you want longevity. They are junk and its generally thought that APC stands for "Another Poor Choice". Their batteries are garbage and they do not filter the power well. They are an offline UPS also, and you want an online one if possible.
...
Once you have your wattage, find a used Toshiba or PowerWare UPS with bad batteries....
These units will have trays of 12v sealed batteries that are easily replaced (but expensive), but you can easily convert them to wet batteries with a lot more capacity. Just use deep cycle batteries so you don't kill them. Also, don't have the battery trays in you equipment room.

You want the rated capacity to triple your wattage draw at least. I like to have 10% of the rated capacity as a draw for maximum uptime. If you use an Energy Star rated switch, the draw for the cameras and switch should only be a few hundred watts. Same for the the DVR if you leave the monitor off except for viewing playback.

With a decent sized battery bank, a setup of this type should run a DVR for days. You can decide if you need it to be self sufficient (off grid charging) or if just having a lot of uptime is ok and it charges off the municipal grid.

APC has decent stuff, and ****. Smart UPS is ok. Back UPS is ****.
Both are offline like you mention, but APC has an online UPS line called Symmetra. They too are decent.

That said, Eaton PowerWare IS top shelf gear. We use it at work, and I highly recommend it, but:

I agree that online UPS is better in many ways than standby UPS, BUT most people would be better off with a standby UPS. Online has much lower power efficiency when idling, so your electric bill while running an online UPS will be significantly higher (the efficiency when on battery is identical) for no good reason.

It is a bad idea to convert a UPS to wet cells.
First off, as stated above, wet cells need to be stored separately from the UPS. You really need a sealed battery room with isolated ventilation.
Second, the charging circuits on a UPS are programmed to charge SLA cells. Flooded jars have different float voltages and charging profiles. A good battery maintainer (such as a solar charge controller) should have a switch to choose the type of cells connected. A UPS will not.

But I still feel that expecting 24 or more hours of runtime from a UPS is misguided. And I still believe that you can find everything you need for a surveillance system that can accept 12V power directly. If you can avoid the double conversion, getting several days of runtime from a battery pile now becomes possible.

 

[theoldwizard1]

APC has decent stuff, and ****. Smart UPS is ok. Back UPS is ****.

That said, Eaton PowerWare IS top shelf gear. We use it at work, and I highly recommend it, but:

I agree that online UPS is better in many ways than standby UPS, BUT most people would be better off with a standby UPS. Online has much lower power efficiency when idling, so your electric bill while running an online UPS will be significantly higher ...

But I still feel that expecting 24 or more hours of runtime from a UPS is misguided. And I still believe that you can find everything you need for a surveillance system that can accept 12V power directly. If you can avoid the double conversion, getting several days of runtime from a battery pile now becomes possible.

By far the best solution !

 

[atfulldraw]

I like the shotgun approach.

Out of town, gated neighborhood, fence, second fence, electric gates, dogs, security lighting, cameras, alarms, dogs....

and a shotgun.

 

[bushmechanic]

OP, check out dropcam. They do cloud recording and alerts on noise and stuff so they're perfect for monitoring your stuff. As soon as you detect that someone has broken into your shop you can call up the sheriff and get him en-route and you also have the footage backed up to the cloud so you can use it to prosecute him.

We just need to get over the technical hurdle of keeping your internet and the dropcam running. The dropcam runs off USB power, so you could set an inverter up on a couple of 12v batteries and probably have months worth of run time. Also as someone else mentioned, you could run it off a computer UPS. Most of those provide USB power these days.

All of the physical security that people have suggested is fine, but ultimately if a thief has a week to chip away at it while you're gone and you have no way of knowing something is going on, it's not going to help. You need to get surveillance up.

Yup. Those things can be great if you've got the tech to keep up with them, and I think it'd be a good investment here.

All you can do is pull a few "I may be home" tricks and harden the entry points for idiots. That's enough to turn the hooligans and opportunists away. You can't keep professionals out, unless there is an easier target nearby.

I gave a few suggestions, but it comes down to what you've got and what makes sense in your area.

Any security can be breached if left alone. A proper thief, in the middle of nowhere, with you gone for long periods of time, is going to get in there one way or another.

Just remember that the point is not to set up traps or catch the intruder yourself. You're not home; there is no threat to life and limb. Don't break the law, don't invite a lawsuit, and don't piss intruders off with nasty surprises.

I'm big into self-reliance, but marked property (some genius in here noted it because we all forgot) is enough to let the police do their jobs in a reactionary, yet efficient capacity.

Once you let them know it's gone, every pawn shop in the area will get an update and immediately begin to screen their incoming products. It's very fast and efficient.

If I'm in my building when someone breaks in and I'm cornered, it's their ***. If I'm gone, though, and come home to a missing television or set of tools, or if I can slip out the back and wait for them to finish rummaging around...

Hell, I pay people to handle that ****, and I park them everywhere, in very fancy cars, and I even buy them cool uniforms.

 

[Paul1956]

Where I live around 30% of homes are broken into while someone is home. Maybe due to the fact that burglars KNOW that any alarm system will be switched off.

When I am at home... my alarm is in "at home" mode which means
if I do anything stupid or someone attempts to gain access from outside
all hell breaks out.

I also have a panic mode disengage which means if someone is holding a
gun to my head and demands I turn the alarm off... sure no problem, but
the SWAT team will be showing up shortly after I silence the alarm.

 

[mygarageone]

I have read here a couple times , that's what insurance is for or just make sure it's insured,.

That all find and good and yes have insurance . But they will devalue everything they can and you had better have a complete list . Trust me , you generaly do not come out ahead with this issue. You bought a tool 5 yrs ago for 300 and today it's a 400 tool. The insurance company will devalue the cost you pd by at least 20 % , they don't care what it cost to replace.

 

[Fatboyslim]

Not if you have a "contents replacement value" policy, which are very common.

 

[youngnstudly]

We have a family ranch that is 4 hours away, and it has always been "Tweakerville" up there to begin with (for the past 40 years that it's been in our family!).We just recently (16 months ago) had the losers break in and steal EVERYTHING that wasn't bolted down or that didn't have serial numbers on it. They even tried to squat (live) there, but soon realized that wasn't a good idea since we kill the power to the well before leaving each time and they didn't have working water. We keep this place with the bare basics needed since it's only a secondary residence.

Even after the insurance devaluated any stolen items older than 2 years by 35% (and anything older than 5 years by 50%!), there was still over $12,000 in damages. One (brand new) window had been pried on with a screw driver just enough for them to figure out that they couldn't get in that way), so they pried the 2 bottom panels of the garage door up and forced it to "pop" off the track so they could just slip underneath it.

They stole light bulbs, snapped off hose bibs (5 of which we had installed 50 out from the building for fire prevention), ice trays from the fridge (anything they could repurpose for growing pot), sprayer wagons we built for spraying weed killer (have fun smoking pot with weed killer), all the cleaning products, dishes, silverware, all the spare tools we had in the roll away tool box, etc. Took the cops 3 hours to arrive on the scene (meanwhile we entered the property with guns drawn in case they hadn't left yet!))

My best advice to you is expect the worst, prepare for it, downsize where you can, install an alarm (with cameras...if you can afford it), get good insurance, bolt or lock any roll up doors to the track so they can't pry it up, install bars on the windows and security doors on entry ways, and do the best gate and fence system you can afford, as tall as possible. What they can't see, they can't steal! Motion lights make it easier to see faces and such with cameras at night too.

Be prepared that getting an alarm system professionally installed is a total rip-off, and if you're out as far as we are, try to get the alarm that is hard-wired in AND has a backup wireless signal (in case they cut the line). I don't think a dog is a good idea since you will never be around (he/she needs love and attention A LOT and will otherwise destroy all your items that a thief would have otherwise stolen!). Don't make it "personal" if they do break in (you don't want them retaliating against you personally later on). If they want it bad enough, they'll get it!

Tweakers do indeed, ****! (Just my 2 cents....nothing against the GJ tweakers on here. I'm sure you're otherwise wonderful folks. )

Andy

 

[Miss_Sissy]

I'd heave a brick through the window and wait up the road. No police response or nosey neighbor then I know I have plenty of time to get what I want. I know the sheriff or police are a long way away. Hoody and gloves on so who cares about your cameras. Get in through the door or attached garage if you have one. Plenty of time to grab valuables. Starting with the easy, light more valuable ones and then moving on. Afterwards I'm telling friends what else I saw so they might be back too...

That's the idea behind engraving valuables and putting up signs to that effect; it makes the "valuables" a whole lot less valuable to someone intent on stealing and reselling them.

 

[little d]

As has been said, make sure your insurance will replace what is stolen. As my Dad once said, "Son, a lock will only keep an honest man honest, if they really want it, they will figure out a way to get it", I've lived by these words since.

 

[-Hey_Now-]

Keep in mind, depending on the alarm company installation, they may install sensors and glass break on only the lower level of the property, leaving the upper level totally exposed to some scum with a ladder.

Long time ago, my friend had a speaker box in his car that had handles built into it, he placed razor blades in the handles and bolted the box to his spare tire cover. I mention this because maybe a little shock from a door handle may change someone's mind. Though I can see a suit being filed.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not if you have a "contents replacement value" policy, which are very common.

There has been more than one thread on why "contents replacement value" never seems to work out. I'll let someone else summarize.

Best thing to do for a home shop, buy or borrow a video camera. Slowly walk through your home and shop, video taping everything. Commentary on what you are taping is good.

In the shop, remove all hand tools from your box and lay them out. Tools in storage boxes should be opened.

Take your time. This is YOUR BACKUP PLAN and you only get one shot at it.

Upload your video to a cloud service.

 

[ryan77]

Signs indicating someone disturbed and evil lives there, skuls on posts,doll heads, bullet casings laying around, I've seen some places youd have to have balls of steel to want to break in, also make it look as if nothing valuable is there, hide it if it is and if they find it make it hard for them to take, I keep all my tools in different locations through out the shop, if they want complete sets they will have to search, it would take them all day, or they leave with incomplete sets which wouldn't sell for much...lol

 

[maxwage]

Just insure your ****. To live in fear is a bad way to live. Just saying man. You got other stuff to worry about like space lizards[emoji38] Guy robs you of a pile of junk, space lizards rob you of everything else, might even take your kids (that don't exist yet but you get what I'm saying).

Disclaimer: space lizards are real but still funny.

Not that I should say this (despite the fact that I talked about space lizards) but the ramifications of taking another persons life can be pretty severe if you're not a psychopath. Best to avoid it, especially over stuff; guy points a gun at you sure but guy steals your wheelbarrow, nah.

Disclaimer: feel free to kill as many space lizards as you want.

This s and common sense. No offense, but a lot of y'all sound like tweakers. I've only read through page 4, but some of the responses I've read, Jesus, are absolutely ridiculous. Some funny, but realistically.... wow. Some of you must live in the shittiest part of this country and flash your wealth like you have nothing to loose.

I limit who comes to my home, have insurance and limit my exposure of the interwebs. It is stupid easy to stalk or target the naive in this day of info tech.

And I repeat, this response is not intended to get anyone **** hurt. [emoji6]

 

[Doc]

get a dog
use an auto feeder

This. Look up Russian Caucasian Dog for details. Aka Russian Bear dog. Loyal to its owners only... All others are scooby snacks...

 

[excavator]

I use cameras and I have the android app that can email you 3 pics of anything that sets alarms off which works great. You can pic which cam to send emails and the best thing I did last week was invest in a licence plate capture camera that works day and night no matter how bright the headlights are.
Here is sample I recorded. It will see plate even with no lights at all.
The camera that took this pic has the Sony effio-e chipset with 6-60mm Vari-focal Lens

 

[Dajn]

I always have someone I trust at my house at all times if I have to be gone. Thieves are in the same category as pedophiles in my book. It always makes my day when one breaks into the wrong house and gets their head blown off. To bad it didn't happen more often, then maybe they would think twice. Goodluck op.

 

[Dajn]

I had a fish house broke into a few years ago. I seriously considered setting a bear trap right inside the door before I left it alone for the night. Something to consider for you. Haha. Just joking.

 

[boostedgt]

leave a radio on, park a beater in the drive and move it every now and then

 

[Elginz]

You could have a motion detector outside turn on a light inside to look like some one is inside.
I used a motion detector to turn on a radio and a light to keep a bear off the back deck and out of the front yard.
But if someone walked up and a light inside came on, add a timer and turn on another light or a TV or radio. Sounds like a fun project.

 

[zable9]

Agree with the fake tv thing--very realistic

 

[TheEquineFencer]

You can get a motion sensor camera system with an autodial feature, use a cell phone for the auto-dial, that will call you on your smartphone and you can watch what's going on. There was a guy on CL around here that sold and installed a basic system a while back starting at $800.

 

[bczygan]

The short answer is do everything. Layer upon layer.

Remove the most valuable things.

Insure

Inventory

Hide

Camouflage

Barricade

Illuminate

Alarm

Protect

Etc.

I would be tempted to make a human trap, where it was easy to get in, but impossible to get out. Something that didn't look like a trap, but accidentally worked like one because of the trespassers own actions.

And for hiding and camouflaging, I like putting valuable things behind hidden panels, walls and in hidden rooms.

Put something out to be stolen, that isn't valuable, and keep the good one hidden.

Lots of things to do.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I ran into a friend of a friend at the local store one day and he was telling me his THIRD riding mower got stolen and his insurance company was threatening to cancel his policy. I suggested he go buy a cheap cellphone with GPS tracking and wire it to the 12V system under the body and leave it sitting in his yard. he did, in a few days it "disappeared." He then called the local sheriff and told them what he'd done. They tracked it to the crooks house and then to the Pawn shop two counties away that had two of his other mowers. The whole gang lot of them went to jail. Next true story. The guy around the corner from me kept getting broken into. Alarm would go off, loud, we could hear it. Cops were auto-dialed and the crook was gone with what he could smash and grab before anyone could get there. Wayne installed a hidden camera system next with recording. Next break-in, same thing. Deputy was taking info when Wayne told him he was going to look at a video and see who it was tis time. Deputy wanted to see it. Wayne told him he'd drop a copy off to him later that day. When he did they called a bunch of the Deputies in to watch it and see if they knew the guy. Turns out one did. he said the guy was on house arrest and had a "tracking collar on." No one was watching the tracks. they pulled up the data and then traced his steps from his house around the county over to Wayne's and then over to the next county where it turns out a murder was committed. Go figure, no one was watching the guys tracks and someone died because of it.