Trying to justify $150k on a new small shop

[trirod]

Currently my "shop" is half of our double garage, which means our daily drivers sit outside and my wife's convertible, which sits in the other garage stall, gets covered in sawdust constantly. I have had plans drawn up to build a shop, which is attached to the current house/garage and is about 220 sq ft. The house is built into a steep hillside and the shop would mostly be underground requiring a fair amount of excavation and poured concrete retaining walls. The design also incorporates an 8x10 garden shed above the shop (it's at grade level in the back yard), and we are extending the garage 4 feet to make it more functional (currently can't open the tailgate when the car is parked in there). Total additional square footage of the shop, garage and shed comes to just over 400 square feet. The price quoted for this is just shy of $120,000, but we would also re-do the current retaining wall around the driveway, which would be another $30,000. We have had multiple quotes - some a little cheaper and some more.

So it comes to $300 per square foot, which seems a lot for unfinished space, but I guess all of the excavation adds to the cost, as well as integrating it into the current building (vs. building a standalone structure).

I plan on living here for many years so would hope to get a lot of benefit out of it, but unexpected things can happen and if we had to move, I feel we wouldn't get much back on all of that expenditure.

Anyway, trying to get a sanity check if that seems crazy expensive? I do live in a more expensive part of Michigan, but it's Michigan, not a coastal city.

 

[Mark_17]

Is building a stand alone shop out of the question?

 

[FJ 432]

Sounds cool as hell. Do it. It won't get any cheaper and it will increase the enjoyment level of your house.

 

[trirod]

It wouldn’t be that easy to build a standalone shop. We have an acre but a lot of that is steep unbuildable land. I liked the idea of building into the hillside since being mostly underground would keep the temperature pretty steady in there, and not having to go outside in a Michigan winter is nice too. But I might need to revisit that based on the estimates I am getting back.

 

[FJ 432]

It sounds like you have thought through alternatives. I added onto my house in 2009 and although I wish it was bigger I love my addition.

 

[Sumboodie]

Holy crappp!

And I did a when I got a quote for 65k for a 900 sq ft addition and 900sq ft apron.

 

[u2slow]

Anyway, trying to get a sanity check if that seems crazy expensive?

Excavation and concrete is expensive. If there's much rock to break, costs even more.

I had my own taste of that.... my yard looked flat and easy to build a shop on. Then it turned out to be a loosely backfilled ravene. All had to be dug out and repacked with good fill. Half the total cost of my shop was spent before any framing.

 

[drmarkr]

$150k for 400sf??? WTF? I paid less than that for this!

 

[Fixr]

Currently my "shop" is half of our double garage, which means our daily drivers sit outside and my wife's convertible, which sits in the other garage stall, gets covered in sawdust constantly. I have had plans drawn up to build a shop, which is attached to the current house/garage and is about 220 sq ft. The house is built into a steep hillside and the shop would mostly be underground requiring a fair amount of excavation and poured concrete retaining walls. The design also incorporates an 8x10 garden shed above the shop (it's at grade level in the back yard), and we are extending the garage 4 feet to make it more functional (currently can't open the tailgate when the car is parked in there). Total additional square footage of the shop, garage and shed comes to just over 400 square feet. The price quoted for this is just shy of $120,000, but we would also re-do the current retaining wall around the driveway, which would be another $30,000. We have had multiple quotes - some a little cheaper and some more.

So it comes to $300 per square foot, which seems a lot for unfinished space, but I guess all of the excavation adds to the cost, as well as integrating it into the current building (vs. building a standalone structure).

I plan on living here for many years so would hope to get a lot of benefit out of it, but unexpected things can happen and if we had to move, I feel we wouldn't get much back on all of that expenditure.

Anyway, trying to get a sanity check if that seems crazy expensive? I do live in a more expensive part of Michigan, but it's Michigan, not a coastal city.

If you are coming here trying to justify it, you already know it's a bad idea. You know you will get support for spending way too much for something that you aren't sure makes sense, because that's the GJ way. But it's still a bad idea.

If you were really sure it's what you want, you wouldn't have to ask anyone else. Ask yourself if this is what you really desperately/joyfully want now, or if it's what you wanted decades ago and are only hanging on to for nostalgia.

The GJ way is to rationalize spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on a shop with a lift because you don't trust Quickie Lube to do a $40 oil change "right", even though you don't actually have a plan or a passion.

If that's your motivation, unless you just get orgasmic getting drenched with hot dirty oil, you could just have your car serviced at a decent shop for another 20 bucks above what the cheapie oil change place charges.

Just what do you hope to do in this hypothetical expensive space? Do you have any tools, projects, skills or plans?

Update us, and we will help you spend your money on things we would like to have

 

[Fixr]

$150k for 400sf??? WTF? I paid less than that for this!

Location, location. location. And domestic harmony.

 

[ItsNemo]

Don't suppose you can share some pictures of the land/area you have available? Lots of creative people here might be able to come up with an idea that would work.

Off the top of my head, if you don't need to pull a vehicle into this shop, there might be options to build up on piles rather than down into the ground.

 

[428PI]

My brother in law put up a 70x110 shop full floor heat and finished out. That would cost what? 2.4 million?

 

[rayra]

Sounds like you are getting quoted full rate for having someone else do all of it for you? Is that the case? Does that have to be the case?
You mention sawdust, surely there are some aspects of it you can do?

 

[Fixr]

We don't even know what the OP wants to do in the hypothetical shop. Stained glass? Taxidermy? Restoring Yugos? TikTok videos of removing intestinal parasites from Komodo Dragons?

Come on, @trirod, give us some hints so we can give you precisely targeted bad advice.

 

[Vise_Squad]

Yep, they seen you comin'!

If you want to build into a slope your best and cheapest bet is going to be shipping containers or a galvanized steel Quonset Hut type building. They're both massively strong and can be buried for the best insulation, but make sure you do it with proper insulation, water-proofing and drainage. You can get them now with four double doors or one side or whatever you want. Could probably be ordered with knock-out sides if you wanted to weld two together side by side.

 

[loganb]

Sounds like buying a different place with a workable shop/building is going to be far cheaper and also more likely to generate a positive financial return. But as mentioned it's not just about the dollars and cents

 

[Fixr]

Yep, they seen you comin'!

If you want to build into a slope your best and cheapest bet is going to be shipping containers or a galvanized steel Quonset Hut type building. They're both massively strong and can be buried for the best insulation, but make sure you do it with proper insulation, water-proofing and drainage. You can get them now with four double doors or one side or whatever you want. Could probably be ordered with knock-out sides if you wanted to weld two together side by side.

Meh. If you want to build into a slope, the best and cheapest bet is to not build into a slope. Otherwise, you will always be fighting gravity and osmosis. A pinhole will make you fight gallons an hour on a wet day. If you insist, you are building a leaky swimming pool and hoping you can keep water from running through.

This advice may not apply in Arizona.

 

[tarmy]

I built one on a slope…er…former slope after I graded it. A big dozer and scraper is your friend. So is underground drainage and proper slope away from your new shop. I actually have no idea what the final cost was…but I am damn sure it was more than I told my wife.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you're not capable of doing any of the work, you are going to have to write a check.

$30K to move a retaining wall ? Ouch.

You're doing more than just adding a bay, you are undertaking a huge excavation project.

$150K + what you could profit from the sale of the home, could possibly buy you much more. Has it been considered ?

 

[HoosierMark]

Two things come to mind. One is find out what the property will appraise at after you complete the project. The second and most important is how will it change your life? Will this be with borrowed money?will this cause good or bad reactions with your wife? Will the spending of all this money stop you from doing something else? Etc. answers to the last questions all impact your life. If when its built and your overall life is better or worse you have your answer.

 

[930dreamer]

"I have had plans drawn up to build a shop, which is attached to the current house/garage and is about 220 sq ft".
Is the current garage 220 sq ft or the new planned shop? If the new shop costs that much for only 220 sq ft I'd be in the no way crowd.

 

[rktinc]

I think its time for a new house. Might be cheaper to upgrade your property and buy something already built. Sometimes, it is just not worth the braindamage of building where you are. Maybe find an older couple ready to downsize??? Drive around and knock on a few doors. Put the word out. You might get lucky. I would rather spend the money on a whole new homesite.

 

[reader2580]

Right now is a terrible time to sell and buy a house if you have a mortgage although $120,000 could go to mortgage payments.

I spent four months in 2014 looking for a house with a building big enough for a motorhome. Two came up with really nice 40x80 shops, but I don’t recall why I didn’t buy one of them. They were short sales and I know one of them took six months to close.

 

[trirod]

So for some additional information, it will primarily be a woodworking shop (table saw, band saw, belt sander etc.). My current project is building cabinets for my home office, so that is the kind of thing it would get used for.

I do all of the maintenance on our cars (3 aging Saabs), so that is another reason to extend the garage by 4' - the garage is 20' deep but has a 4' wide step at the house end so there is only 16' of actual garage floor. Currently it is very cramped working on the cars. I would love to have room for a lift in there, but the walls are only 8', with living space above, so that is probably not going to happen.

I built a 36' x 20' garage/shop at my last house (so I do have some skills), but that was basically a standalone build on totally flat ground (and I was 20 years younger then). I had a group of buddies help me pour the concrete, then I did all of the framing, sheathing, roofing etc. myself. I could knock the price of the current project down a bit by taking on some of the work myself, but the main costs are in the excavation, foundation/concrete work and framing (more complex because of the shape and integrating into the existing building), which I would definitely want to outsource.

I will post some pics when it gets light outside, to see if the GJ brain trust can come up with some ideas.

 

[reader2580]

I doubt the OP is looking go with redneck ideas like shipping containers if they are looking to attach to the house.

It is not cheap to add a garage onto a house. You have to build a full frost footing to match the house. The OP also wants to make the existing garage deeper which also means a new frost footing for that new wall. Contractors are going to want more money to add on because they never know what hidden problems they may find when adding to existing structure.

 

[racecougar]

Unless you're able to do the excavation yourself, I'm in the "it'd be better to move to a different property" camp.

 

[bb29510]

all you need is a 24x30 metal building, enough room to work on stuff, you dont need a man cave, time to downsize

 

[jar944]

all you need is a 24x30 metal building, enough room to work on stuff, you dont need a man cave, time to downsize

Op is asking about adding a 220sqft attached shop. How does he downsize to a 720 sqft detached metal building on a slope?

 

[Rst277]

How far are you from town / city? For a 150k could you rent a place? No construction which will invariably go over budget as "things" come up. I wouldn't doubt your final cost will be closer to 200k. If you are thinking of spending this kind of money to build cabinets, maybe buy cabinets ready made and get into a less expensive hobby.

 

[mcj115]

Honestly the way you laid it out as your last post...it would seem the easiest way to control costs would be is to act as your own general contractor and find the subs for each of the portions.

 

[jrevans]

Use existing garage for shop space, build a small garage or covered carport for the storage of the convertible?

Buy or build a large storage shed for use as the shop?

Without knowing the layout, not sure if it is possible to identify a suitable solution.

300/Sq ft is crazy expensive, and you will likely not recover all of the costs.

Folks here will be happy to help you spend money, but you will need to foot the bill.

Best of luck.

 

[trirod]

Here are a couple of photos to help visualize this. The obvious answer might be to convert the existing garage to a shop and add a new 2 car garage on the driveway in front of the existing garage. The reason I didn't initially go for that is that our well is in the way (you can see it next to the mound of snow) and I didn't want to pay to have a new well drilled (but that may end up cheaper...) Also, I wasn't sure what it would do to the rooms with the balcony on the left end of the house as you look at it.

 

[CraigStu]

I'd be looking at moving. That $ amount is so far out of norm for what you will get that it is ridiculous. And you will never get it back. We moved 5 years ago to an area w/ a lot of hills. It took quite a while to find a piece of land flat enough to build what we wanted but we finally succeeded. Sit w/ your wife w/ a pad and a pencil. Start drawing house floor plans to include things you know you like based on your previous housing experiences. Then start looking. Heck, if you found a house that meets your drawing but on flat land, your garage expansion could be either 1/2 price or 2-3 times larger.

 

[purplezr2]

Curious to how many bids you have gotten, and your location?

 

[Mikes61]

That’s a lot of money, for a small addition. Plan on it being way more than the quoted cost too. Also think about the level of frustration when things go wrong, builders don’t show up for weeks at a time, etc.

I just finished a 920 shop that was added to my existing 2 car garage. It ended up being twice the quoted cost and took twice as long as I expected. I went through 7 plan checks with the City. I still need to pour cement ($12,000) and drywall, insulate and add lighting ($10,000?).

How about making a huge carport to the left side of your house? Your wife’s car will be covered that way and you’ll have more covered space. I understand the balcony would be awkward then though. You could match the existing roofline. You could also close off the backside, either in the plans or after it’s been signed off.

In one of your pics I see water. Are you right on a lake? I wouldn’t be selling or moving.

 

[logical]

I think half the cost is because of the terrain of the lot. Comparing it to a pole barn on a flat part of a large lot just doesn't equate. Without a lot of detail, anyone saying it's high, low or just right is guessing.

 

[dougf]

While not idea, how about expanding t6he roofline and design it as a carport? Vehicles can park under it and walk through the garage when its raining, which would also give you covered storage outside and you can make the current garage the shop that you want?

 

[Rst277]

Here are a couple of photos to help visualize this. The obvious answer might be to convert the existing garage to a shop and add a new 2 car garage on the driveway in front of the existing garage. The reason I didn't initially go for that is that our well is in the way (you can see it next to the mound of snow) and I didn't want to pay to have a new well drilled (but that may end up cheaper...) Also, I wasn't sure what it would do to the rooms with the balcony on the left end of the house as you look at it.

You have a flat spot in front of the garage. Update that retaining wall, turn the garage into your shop and build a garage there. With some careful design, you could possibly have some sort of deck/balcony off the second floor and miss the well altogether. I bet it cuts the price in half.

 

[ludakris04]

You know what they say.. location, location, location.. looks like you bought because of the view... and that is what you have.
Anything can be done, but your trying to make it something it is not.
"If" I would do it, I would spin the garage door to the front of the house. Then add on to the side of the house.
Be realistic with your goals. Is this just a wood shop? Maybe something semi-permanent in that driveway space?
It will be many years before you get $150k back, unless that area is really booming and you have been there a while.
Also could deter buyers, who are just there for the view.

just my .$.02...

 

[steves_001]

I'd hate to give up that location too. So, what if you went in front of the house, on the left half, starting about where the stairway is and coming over as wide was needed. Use that space for the new garage, it's relatively flat. Yea, you have to move the well. 10k prob for that.
But, then you have the old space for the workshop and the new garage will be a whole lot bigger than 220sq ft. Plus, that leaves the balcony on the left end alone, and a bit more private. Just a thought.

(RST277 beat me to it, same idea)