reader2580
Well-known member
Wera makes a lot of their stuff in Eastern Europe now. Most German brands don't seem to make actual tools in China, but stuff like cases and pouches are made in China now.
U.S.A. made vs German made
- Thread starter joshua_trees
- Start date
reader2580
Well-known member
I just bought a set of hex bit sockets made by Proto here in the USA. There is zero quality control on the bit sockets I got. I don't think a single bit is straight in the socket.
neophyte
Well-known member
Bosch has been making certain items in Malaysia for decades.
The Bosch digital Angle Finder levels have been made in Malaysia since I think the 1990s.
After that, certain other similar tools, and smaller cordless power tools had production start in Malaysia.
Other Bosch tools have bern made all over the globe.
Bosch used to own Skil Power Tools, and had also purchased the former Stanley Power tool division, so a few decades ago, a number of the tools, including routers, and circular saws, and jigsaws, were all made in the USA, with production later switching to Mexico.
Other power tools such as power hand planers, and sanders, and certain drill models, were made in Switzerland and/or Germany.
Bosch was also producing some tools, I think including large angle grinders in Russia, which I believe ended after sanctions from Russia/Crimea conflict 1.
Sparky Tools in Bulgaria may have also been producing tools for Bosch.
Saw that thread. I guess I want to buy my tools from:
- People who give a **** about their work. Take pride in their work. It only takes one visit to Switzerland to realize that’s a nation of people who give a **** about anything they do. Never been to Japan, but I’ve watched enough YouTube videos to be convinced they are similar.
- People who don’t hate me. That really narrows the playing field!
RTM
Well-known member
Dang, thanks for sharing, but very far away from mor normal work visit locations.
Please report back, especially if more than the location NE of Freiburg.
Dakotadadv8
Well-known member
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Are Koken and Nepros made in Japan or are they also outsourced?
Interestingly, those are the Knipex pliers that are generally outsourced. May still be made in Germany though. Brands like Bollman....
Actually, it would be hard to find just one product by Wera made in Germany. I have an electricians tester screwdriver that is, but I'm not sure if those are still produced. Screwdrivers, bits, wrenches and allen keys are all from the Czech republic. Any kind of mechanisms, like those used in their ratchets or ratcheting wrenches or screwdrivers seem to come from Taiwan. All kinds of socketry tools are all from Taiwan too. They don't really make anything in Germany for a long time, but they might outsource one or two items now and then, like those electrician screwdrivers.
Those are made in Japan.
Dave455
Well-known member
F-22 has it right.
Wera screwdrivers, screwdriver bits, and hex keys are made in the Czech Republic.
They have been made there for at least 30 years, possibly 35, and I don’t think the current “Kraftform” drivers were ever made in Germany.
Socket wrenches and accessories were a relatively new thing for Wera. They’re not something they historically made, and were made in Taiwan from the start (except for the ratchet’s, which are Czech made, but I suspect with Taiwan internals).
The sockets and accessories are surprisingly good though. I’ve had this little set for some years, and the 10 and 13mm sockets have seen considerable use, but show no real wear.
I say “surprisingly” good because the Wera sockets are ”mid price” at best (bordering on “budget” tools) in the U.K. and Europe. The set above, was about a third of the price of the Hazet equivalent at the time of purchase.
So don’t be buying Wera and thinking you’re getting ”premium” German made tools, you’re not. What you are getting are perfectly serviceable (and in fact quite rugged) tools that I find are quite a good complement to a higher quality set, depending on the job in hand.
The Czech made screwdriver bits are exceptionally good though, and the bit sockets (something of a Wera speciality, they offer a huge selection) are I think Czech made bits in Taiwan sockets. That combo works just fine.
I tend to carry the set above when I’m doing domestic tasks. I’ve put together shelving, fitted TV’s, driven countless coach screws, and it’s been perfect for that.
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CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
Over half of my work and home boxes contain German-made and German-owned brands. Overall, I feel US stuff is more stout and can take the abuse that you often see in shops, such as how everything becomes a hammer. But, my German stuff is lighter, smaller, user-friendly, and packaged well and I’m usually finding myself grabbing German stuff first. The real downside to German tooling is the lack of a super comprehensive catalog. Williams/Snap-on, Proto, Matco, MAC/Stanley all have a much larger and varied catalog of tools than any of the German brands. I can build an entire toolbox with almost any one American brand, but I’d have to have several German counterparts to do that.
There are categories, however, that the US stuff I have absolutely dominates their German counterparts but that would be for a different thread.
There are categories, however, that the US stuff I have absolutely dominates their German counterparts but that would be for a different thread.
Where is the wiha factory outlet? Plan to be in Europe in the early fall.
Are there any other tool companies with outlets?
Not sure, but one tool company I never ever hear discussed is Proxxon. The German guy Ryan linked "Greasy Fingers" has some of their tools. Once German, now made in Luxembourg? Man, I can't get enough tools from Luxembourg. When you say tools, I think "Luxembourg" (not).
Not sure who told us here Germans are all about 3/8" drive. "It's totally legit and been that way since WW2." Looks like nobody told that to Luxembourg! Check this set out. Everything a Porsche tech needs (except a lot more bit sockets and an SHLF80A)). Yes, this is just 1/2" and 1/4" drive!
There's something about these sets that I find appealing. The sliding Tee bars/extensions are kinda cool. The spinner handle has a recess in the **** end like my Snap On. which is a really thoughtful feature. The old clear Craftsman spinners I had never had that.
The Greasyfingers guy seems to only have these tools. When he needs a longer ratchet, he either uses a pipe or hits this ratchet with a steel hammer! There's something kinda quaint about that. Kinda European. They don't have everything like we do. They make do with skill and creativity. Personally, I think the guy desperately needs a Snap On SHLF80A. Then again I think all of you need that tool. They also don't have garages you can see from space like we do, so fewer good quality tools, flexibility and space efficiency are more important over there.
I really dig these sets, the colors, the styles. Funny that more tool companies don't do this. I suggested this approach to the SK guy here. Sell kits with packaging that is drawer organizers. And if you made them modular or with blanks, you'd encourage people to stick with your brand to complete their toolboxes. And make the kits custom sized to fit the toolboxes you sell. Make it all part of a "system".
Who they hell wants or needs a Hazet hammer? Nobody talks about Hazet hammers.
Well, if it was good quality, reasonably priced, and came as a part of a kit with other helpful tools you really needed, along with a nice organizer,... maybe, right? I think this is an attractive kit for a toolbox. It's very basic, minimal, but functional. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I think of as a euro esthetic. Just what you need and no more. Like IKEA.
What do you guys think? Is Luxembourg the new Taiwan? Tool capital of Planet Earth?
KnurledNut
Well-known member
I like their bits too. But I wish they would stamp them instead of just laser etching. I find Wiha bits to be finished better.
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
I survived for years at work with just 1/4” and 1/2”. It’s really not that difficult, especially if you know you are only going to encounter certain sizes of fasteners and you know what kind of stuff you’ll be working on.Not sure, but one tool company I never ever hear discussed is Proxxon. The German guy Ryan linked "Greasy Fingers" has some of their tools. Once German, now made in Luxembourg? Man, I can't get enough tools from Luxembourg. When you say tools, I think "Luxembourg" (not).
Not sure who told us here Germans are all about 3/8" drive. "It's totally legit and been that way since WW2." Looks like nobody told that to Luxembourg! Check this set out. Everything a Porsche tech needs (except a lot more bit sockets and an SHLF80A)). Yes, this is just 1/2" and 1/4" drive!
There's something about these sets that I find appealing. The sliding Tee bars/extensions are kinda cool. The spinner handle has a recess in the **** end like my Snap On. which is a really thoughtful feature. The old clear Craftsman spinners I had never had that.
The Greasyfingers guy seems to only have these tools. When he needs a longer ratchet, he either uses a pipe or hits this ratchet with a steel hammer! There's something kinda quaint about that. Kinda European. They don't have everything like we do. They make do with skill and creativity. Personally, I think the guy desperately needs a Snap On SHLF80A. Then again I think all of you need that tool. They also don't have garages you can see from space like we do, so fewer good quality tools, flexibility and space efficiency are more important over there.
I really dig these sets, the colors, the styles. Funny that more tool companies don't do this. I suggested this approach to the SK guy here. Sell kits with packaging that is drawer organizers. And if you made them modular or with blanks, you'd encourage people to stick with your brand to complete their toolboxes. And make the kits custom sized to fit the toolboxes you sell. Make it all part of a "system".
Who they hell wants or needs a Hazet hammer? Nobody talks about Hazet hammers.
Well, if it was good quality, reasonably priced, and came as a part of a kit with other helpful tools you really needed, along with a nice organizer,... maybe, right? I think this is an attractive kit for a toolbox. It's very basic, minimal, but functional. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I think of as a euro esthetic. Just what you need and no more. Like IKEA.
What do you guys think? Is Luxembourg the new Taiwan? Tool capital of Planet Earth?
AFAIK, Picard is the OEM for most German hammers. I have owned a bunch and they were some of the best finished hammers I have ever seen. Fantastic quality. I only gave them away because Estwing and Vaughan are in my home state and I like to support local businesses.
And every German company has some sort of modular foam/tray system now. Basically you buy a cart or box and everything fits perfectly. It’s great if you want to just grab and go. MAC does the same thing now with their single bay Edge series box. Hell, Snappy does it with their Cloud9 too. SK should have done something similar when they relaunched but they seem to have their heads up their asses.
Dakotadadv8
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 30, 2021
- Messages
- 1,483
I do have Stihls axe, chainsaws, gas leaf blower, and Karcher power washer. Great German tools.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Wiha Werkzeuge Outlet-Shop · Schonach im Schwarzwald
maps.app.goo.gl
BobsYourUncle69
Well-known member
Edited
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BobsYourUncle69
Well-known member
I loved my Karcher power washers but wasn't thrilled when Karcher RSA tried to charge me the price for a new unit just for a replacement hose so I ended up with 2 Karcher power washers.
Dave455
Well-known member
I’m pretty certain that all the Proxxon hand tools are made in Taiwan.Not sure, but one tool company I never ever hear discussed is Proxxon. The German guy Ryan linked "Greasy Fingers" has some of their tools. Once German, now made in Luxembourg? Man, I can't get enough tools from Luxembourg. When you say tools, I think "Luxembourg" (not).
Not sure who told us here Germans are all about 3/8" drive. "It's totally legit and been that way since WW2." Looks like nobody told that to Luxembourg! Check this set out. Everything a Porsche tech needs (except a lot more bit sockets and an SHLF80A)). Yes, this is just 1/2" and 1/4" drive!
There's something about these sets that I find appealing. The sliding Tee bars/extensions are kinda cool. The spinner handle has a recess in the **** end like my Snap On. which is a really thoughtful feature. The old clear Craftsman spinners I had never had that.
The Greasyfingers guy seems to only have these tools. When he needs a longer ratchet, he either uses a pipe or hits this ratchet with a steel hammer! There's something kinda quaint about that. Kinda European. They don't have everything like we do. They make do with skill and creativity. Personally, I think the guy desperately needs a Snap On SHLF80A. Then again I think all of you need that tool. They also don't have garages you can see from space like we do, so fewer good quality tools, flexibility and space efficiency are more important over there.
I really dig these sets, the colors, the styles. Funny that more tool companies don't do this. I suggested this approach to the SK guy here. Sell kits with packaging that is drawer organizers. And if you made them modular or with blanks, you'd encourage people to stick with your brand to complete their toolboxes. And make the kits custom sized to fit the toolboxes you sell. Make it all part of a "system".
Who they hell wants or needs a Hazet hammer? Nobody talks about Hazet hammers.
Well, if it was good quality, reasonably priced, and came as a part of a kit with other helpful tools you really needed, along with a nice organizer,... maybe, right? I think this is an attractive kit for a toolbox. It's very basic, minimal, but functional. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I think of as a euro esthetic. Just what you need and no more. Like IKEA.
What do you guys think? Is Luxembourg the new Taiwan? Tool capital of Planet Earth?
Think they make their micro power tools in Germany and Luxembourg, but that’s all.
Always wondered why so few European manufacturers offer a long handled ratchet. Historically I suspect it was because the ratcheting mechanism wouldn’t take the leverage, but even then you encountered stiff fasteners that are just easier to deal with using a long handle.
Dave455
Well-known member
Unfortunately, that’s just the way of it.
Large manufacturing companies with several factories and a catalogue offering everything is a uniquely American thing, pretty much unheard of in the rest of the world. Probably only KTC in Japan come close.
Some of the German manufacturers try to offer a comprehensive selection, but to do so they are invariably having a lot of items made for them.
Thankfully, a lot are made by reputable German manufacturers, but not always. Hazet screwdrivers are made by Oplast in Slovenia for example. They’re good for the money, but not as good as a traditional Hazet driver.
Habero, now part of Gedore, also manufacture a lot of hammers. I have one or two and they are decent. Their “Rotband Plus” are very durable and well known.
Halder make hammers in Germany as well, they specialise in soft face models.
Got the same set (3/8 inch) in my van. It is really great for that as the soft case does not bump around. Main disappointment is that the ratchet is non-serviceable and that the sockets have no size stamp. Otherwise really good quality, love the knurling that is better than on many top end brands, and the colour coding is cool and functional. Finish is also very consistent.
Depends on what. In general I'd admit that quality US tools are better. Some stuff like most Knipex pliers or Heuer vises - the US brands just don't do that kind of stuff (may upset some regarding the vises, the old American iron is very functional and cool for sure but Heuer is in its own league, I find myself constantly beating and bending things on mine, using it as an anvil like it is supposed to be used and unlike any cast iron vase is really supposed to be abused....).
I think especially Hazet and to a slightly lesser extent Gedore and Stahlwille do offer quite complete catalogues. Plenty of car mechanic shops would have a full Hazet set. Is it really less things they offer than e.g. Proto or Williams? Maybe cause they only target car mechanics and not so much heavy industry as a whole.
Not sure, but one tool company I never ever hear discussed is Proxxon. The German guy Ryan linked "Greasy Fingers" has some of their tools. Once German, now made in Luxembourg? Man, I can't get enough tools from Luxembourg. When you say tools, I think "Luxembourg" (not).
Not sure who told us here Germans are all about 3/8" drive. "It's totally legit and been that way since WW2." Looks like nobody told that to Luxembourg! Check this set out. Everything a Porsche tech needs (except a lot more bit sockets and an SHLF80A)). Yes, this is just 1/2" and 1/4" drive!
There's something about these sets that I find appealing. The sliding Tee bars/extensions are kinda cool. The spinner handle has a recess in the **** end like my Snap On. which is a really thoughtful feature. The old clear Craftsman spinners I had never had that.
The Greasyfingers guy seems to only have these tools. When he needs a longer ratchet, he either uses a pipe or hits this ratchet with a steel hammer! There's something kinda quaint about that. Kinda European. They don't have everything like we do. They make do with skill and creativity. Personally, I think the guy desperately needs a Snap On SHLF80A. Then again I think all of you need that tool. They also don't have garages you can see from space like we do, so fewer good quality tools, flexibility and space efficiency are more important over there.
I really dig these sets, the colors, the styles. Funny that more tool companies don't do this. I suggested this approach to the SK guy here. Sell kits with packaging that is drawer organizers. And if you made them modular or with blanks, you'd encourage people to stick with your brand to complete their toolboxes. And make the kits custom sized to fit the toolboxes you sell. Make it all part of a "system".
Who they hell wants or needs a Hazet hammer? Nobody talks about Hazet hammers.
Well, if it was good quality, reasonably priced, and came as a part of a kit with other helpful tools you really needed, along with a nice organizer,... maybe, right? I think this is an attractive kit for a toolbox. It's very basic, minimal, but functional. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I think of as a euro esthetic. Just what you need and no more. Like IKEA.
What do you guys think? Is Luxembourg the new Taiwan? Tool capital of Planet Earth?
Proxxon hand tools are all generally made in Taiwan. Similar as Wera, but more industrial and no-nonsense. Cheaper and very good quality. Their rotary handle ratchets are really cool. They have their own patterns of tools, not generic Taiwan stuff, and it shows - smart and consistent design overall. I have a 1/2 inch set of imperial tools from them.
What they are actually known for is being a competitor to Dremel. Those used to be made in Germany and Luxembourg and they still might (not sure). They are really good in that.
The third one I'd mention is Toptul. Same or even higher quality. They even got sold in the US. I have a few of their tools too, nothing but praise from me.
A bit of a mental issue too. As common as torque wrenches are, practically all of them have a ratchet head. But mechanics would not be that used to high torque on a ratchet so they never expect to use it in that way even if it can easily take it. New generations are more global in how they look at tools, 3/8 inch and deep sockets are getting more widespread as I see it.
It's in "Schonach im Schwarzwald" https://maps.app.goo.gl/pw7j2jCWQCqMNLqQ8 . Gedore has its own outlet as well but based on the review on Google the price are the list price, while at the Wiha one you could find good discount and even second choice tools (with aestethic defects).
Thank you.
BombShelter
Well-known member
Wiha just built a giant distribution building a little outside of the Twin Cities, it has a "Factory Store" but since I was three minutes late, the door was locked for me. I've bought lots of tool sets online from them over the years when they go on sale, the giant wrenches they blew out a couple years ago were huge and get lots of use.
At this point I'm just buying specialty tools, mostly for automotive, and it's usually China Vs Taiwan. The last time I was in Germany I was really surprised at the price of new tools, Made in Germany Tools were priced similar to the good deals we used to get with USA Craftsman, at least 1/2 of what they price it here. I found a few tool stores in Tokyo but pricing seemed the same as internet pricing.
I always thought stuff like Swatch or Rolex might be cheaper over there, nope, sometimes it's the same or even more expensive.
At this point I'm just buying specialty tools, mostly for automotive, and it's usually China Vs Taiwan. The last time I was in Germany I was really surprised at the price of new tools, Made in Germany Tools were priced similar to the good deals we used to get with USA Craftsman, at least 1/2 of what they price it here. I found a few tool stores in Tokyo but pricing seemed the same as internet pricing.
I always thought stuff like Swatch or Rolex might be cheaper over there, nope, sometimes it's the same or even more expensive.
You know, I sat down and wrote a big old post on the brands I'd buy for various tools if I were starting over (as usual, like most adult males, I've got all of this stuff I'm likely to ever need plus some). Burn up the internet buying buying buying.
Then I looked at it and thought no way, I know exactly what I'd do.
I've mostly (like 95%) just owned old cars, too ignorant to work on them for a living, and think maybe it just doesn't matter that much.
I think I'd put together a toolbox 100% from ReStore. Some cool ancient hand box, name brand sockets/pliers/ratchets/wrenches/screwdrivers from their bins o' stuff. Maybe spend a hundred bucks. Probably less.
Then I looked at it and thought no way, I know exactly what I'd do.
I've mostly (like 95%) just owned old cars, too ignorant to work on them for a living, and think maybe it just doesn't matter that much.
I think I'd put together a toolbox 100% from ReStore. Some cool ancient hand box, name brand sockets/pliers/ratchets/wrenches/screwdrivers from their bins o' stuff. Maybe spend a hundred bucks. Probably less.
wantedabiggergarage
Member Emeritus
Used as much as possible, especially now days. When I got started years ago, I had a mix of inherited tools (going back to the early 1900's), and needed more metric stuff, as well as six point stuff. While some of the Craftsman sets has some wrenches (bought only the six point stuff to begin with, which had six point wrenches), for my go to wrenches, it was a smattering of Craftsman pro's (heard various makers), Kobalt wrenches (made by JH WIlliams company and the flare nut set, closed out at $40, matched the bosses Snap on when your hand was on it), etc. As time went on, I picked up some Craftsman branded Knippex for $10, I needed and bought toothed wrenches (choice was Wrightgrip or Snap on, I went Wrightgrip from HJE, local to me and better value, no Snap on man for a while), Channellocks for around $3 each, Knippex used, Wilde used or HJE, etc, etc. So most of my tools are USA made, but I have also bought some specific german tools to make a kit for my Beetle project, as I found them on Ebay.
Even my Snap on open end, flare nut wrenches, in metric were bought one at a time, via Ebay (some have markings, some don't, all under $10 each). Three snap on Crowfoot sockets, O2 sensor size, $1 each, because they were marked (gave them out at the shop). I try to price shop, not country shop as I need money for fixing stuff, more then the tools.
Pullers were probably my best buy. While I bought a Mac branded pilot bearing puller for my vehicle, we then used it more then a half a dozen times on autoparts stores delivery trucks (had one older deaf driver). Then I found an OTC set, minus the metal box, for less then half price (around $400). As well as a Gearwrench FWD set for around $30.
Even my Snap on open end, flare nut wrenches, in metric were bought one at a time, via Ebay (some have markings, some don't, all under $10 each). Three snap on Crowfoot sockets, O2 sensor size, $1 each, because they were marked (gave them out at the shop). I try to price shop, not country shop as I need money for fixing stuff, more then the tools.
Pullers were probably my best buy. While I bought a Mac branded pilot bearing puller for my vehicle, we then used it more then a half a dozen times on autoparts stores delivery trucks (had one older deaf driver). Then I found an OTC set, minus the metal box, for less then half price (around $400). As well as a Gearwrench FWD set for around $30.