Undecided on mig welder

[bumblebee]

I am looking for a mig but unsure what to get. I am looking at a new lincoln mig 140 or a used mig pak 15. The mig pak 15 comes with a gas bottle, cart, and some other small things. The 140 would be brand new. They would end up being about the same price.
I have 220v in the garage and this mig is for occasional use only.
Which welder would be better suited?

 

[mrjaw14]

What are you going to be welding? That's usually the determining factor I think. I'm looking to buy one myself. can't see welding anything thicker than 1/4" steel, so the welder you mention is one I'm looking at. Curious what others say about the mig 140.

 

[bobcatdan]

If you have 220v, don't mess around and get a 220 welder.

 

[BD1]

Agree on the 220 volt machine. For the few hundred more your option increase a lot. Welding at low amps on thin metal with the 220 volt machine will increase the amount of welding time immensely. You can weld more continuously with the 220 then the 110 volt. Plus you have the benefit of more amps if needed for thicker material.
I think Lincoln has a current rebate program. Check with local welding supplier for a price on machine and tank. Go with cash and may do even better on final price.

 

[El Gabacho]

I agree with the 220. I do have a 110 machine as well, but the 220 gets used 1st choice by everyone in the shop. I am not dissing Lincoln, I have used several of the machines and they are quality, but check and see if there are any demo days at a welding supply place coming up in your area, and try the red, blue and an esab unless you need one asap. Or bother some friends and try their machines.

 

[383 240z]

get a 220V machine, you say light use now, but once you have one, and get the hang of it, you will be welding everything!! I like the Hobart 190. I have the 187 version, and LOVE it. Keith

 

[crab]

It really is a matter of what you'll be welding the most. A bigger machine will run smother until you get to small stuff, if you think you might want to weld aluminum in the future then you'll need the power of a bigger machine. I had a Lincoln 125 gas machine and now have an ESAB 250, for sheet metal the little Lincoln was better but for anything else the 250 is a lot better. I should have kept the 125 and got the 250 to, o-well .

 

[Richard Cranium]

Another vote for the 220 volt unit, so much more you can do, If you can do it, you will

 

[bobcatdan]

It really is a matter of what you'll be welding the most. A bigger machine will run smother until you get to small stuff, if you think you might want to weld aluminum in the future then you'll need the power of a bigger machine. I had a Lincoln 125 gas machine and now have an ESAB 250, for sheet metal the little Lincoln was better but for anything else the 250 is a lot better. I should have kept the 125 and got the 250 to, o-well .

Depending on what you are doing, a 180 to 210 amp machine can give you a pretty good compromise. It's lower settings are still as precise as a 140 amp. Also it gives you a higher ceiling of 5/16" to 3/8" capacity. For many people, think how often would you actually be welding 3/8" plate. I have never used a 110 machine that remotely impressed me pass sheet metal so I have a hard time seeing them as useful unit outside as a little buddy for 250

 

[motodad224]

Would look at the Miller 211, I have one and love it. It works on 120 or 240v and welds up to 3/8" thick on single pass

 

[sberry]

The Hobart 200 class are very good too. Its not that chines are not good but the 120v circuit is a poor welding power source, always maxxed out. For 1/3 or 50% more money a guy gets double the machine. There is a reason you see so few for sale used.

 

[ADSR]

You can't beat the powermig 210 for 999

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323057

 

[PSYKO_Inc]

Depending on your area, the inclusion of a gas bottle could be a big factor. Most gas suppliers will charge you about $200 for a bottle, but you might be able to find a used bottle for much cheaper. So far I've managed to find an oxygen bottle for $20, an acetylene bottle for $50, and a C25 bottle that came with a welder for $50 all together, but it took months of searching CL and estate sales to find those deals. If the hydro is out of date, most shops will charge you an extra $20 or so. I recommend getting the big bottles if you can find them, and grab a spare if you can find a deal on one. Never fails, you'll run out on Saturday afternoon and the welding shop will be closed till Monday. I use 125 and 150 cf bottles, just because the 250s are too heavy for me to load in and out of my SUV by myself. Also read up on compressed gas safety, these things have about 2200 psi in them and can be a bomb or missile if handled improperly.

 

[brownbagg]

i got a miller 140, it *****, bought a hobart 235 iron man and it will weld lower than the 140, smooth as glass. the 140 I fought with. think about it a welder is an transformer that step the voltage down, to increase amp, you got to have some back bone to get asmooth amp. you got to have that 220 behind you

 

[rsanter]

I have a miller211 and love it

Bob

 

[sberry]

The I'M 230 is a full size machine, very good one. It would be on my short list.

 

[70staged]

I have a Miller mig, 220v. I love it and does everything I ask. As with everyone else, I suggest a 220v machine. Now that I said that, I am going to be purchasing a Miller 110v machine here shortly. Reasons, I have only 1 220v outlet in the garage, and the air compressor is connected to it. So I have to unplug it when I want to use my welder.
(Or I could unplug the dryer in the house and run an extension cord, but some people are not happy then).

 

[bsaint]

I have a dual voltage tig and have it normally plugged into 110. I weld without worrying about duty cycle and I've never had the overload turn on. 80amps for 16g stainless.

 

[ADSR]

The I'M 230 is a full size machine, very good one. It would be on my short list.

It's a lot of welder for the money. It's even on sale with the spool gun for ALU for 1830 free shipping!!!

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200456174_200456174

 

[jmlcolorado]

I'm in the 220 volt bandwagon here with a Miller 211.
Guys are right, you'll start with "light welding" then find a billion other uses for it.
Miller is great size for the hobbiest, while more expensive at first (for cart, tank, ect) it's worth it to have "enough machine.

 

[Beefbuzz]

Been looking at the new 211, they look very nice and very portable, they switched from transformer to inverter so it is smaller and lighter. My favorite mig welder (even though I only own blue at the moment) is the red 256. Love the knobs and switches, spot timer, etc. Big unit though.

 

[sberry]

This is a place where spending up some on a tool is a good thing. There are places rather generic tools work well and in some cases as well as any but we are not only considering the quality of the machine but the class. A 200 with 030 wire outputs 2x what a 140 does.
It is a huge leap. Its not just a little better but twice as good and maybe more if we sharpened the pencil.

 

[sberry]

Same for the little air comps, cost 300 for one on 120, cost 400 for one at 240 over 2x as good. There are some more leaps above that but not as short term economical. A professional would re coupe the extra expense quick and may absolutely need, the hobby would be slower and could afford some sacrifice.
I went to a farm a while back, employs several people and a comp has to be plugged in and waited on while you use it to air a tire. They use it like that for a long time. Must have cost a fortune.

 

[sberry]

If I got a helper waiting on me to finish welding then I want a 251, can do the same work as a 211 at 1/2 the cost in half the time. Doubles the cost of the machine. The savings add up super fast if it involves much fab and payroll.
I didn't want the bother but a neighbor next to a rental I have spend a week grinding a few rivets off a pickup with a little comp and a zip wheel. They had been at it several days when I asked wtf,,,, 2 of them, little comp run for hours to salvage junk. Would have been an ok idea for a mornings work it should have been.

 

[zkling]

The compact 110/220 machines are an awesome power/performance/value/size combo. For the guy that can't spring for a tig machine, they are the next best thing for a home user or small shop.

i got a miller 140, it *****, bought a hobart 235 iron man and it will weld lower than the 140, smooth as glass. the 140 I fought with. think about it a welder is an transformer that step the voltage down, to increase amp, you got to have some back bone to get asmooth amp. you got to have that 220 behind you

I'd be willing to bet, that was mostly operator error. 110v machines get a bad rap as they are not very forgiving and many people go in with unrealistic expectations.

 

[sberry]

I like the 12 gage garage guy because its modest in the sense that most everything he did is on the scale correct for him. He has a comp large enough to meet the demand he is likely to need without adding an extra layer of cost and complication to it.
It would be absolutely different if he was runninga mechanic shop but he has a clear view of the duty cycle and demand for him, knows he cant make life better by adding some inch pipe and super connectors.

 

[sberry]

For the guy that can't spring for a tig machine, they are the next best thing for a home user or small shop.

I think they are better than a Tig machine for the small shop and if they dont have it then its the place most should start.
I don't chime in on the tig weld thread because its what the guy wants to do but if a guy is asking what machine does he need to get it done and take care of the place then the 200 compact mig is for him.
I got a ton of stuff, have all the processes and am proffecient, my tig has a layer of dust, cant recall the last time I used it, the hose rotted off, replaced it 5 yrs ago and still havnt used the thing.
I make 1000's of welds a year, have a dozen old cars trucks, 50 pcs of equipment, 100o;s of feet alum pipe and fittings, never use it.
This is all Hobart 210, steel and alum and some tubing of .052 or 060

 

[DemoFly]

You can't beat the powermig 210 for 999

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323057

Another vote for the powermig 210! Can't go wrong. Excellent multi-process welder. Runs on 110 and 220v.

I LOVE using this thing.

 

[zkling]

I think they are better than a Tig machine for the small shop and if they dont have it then its the place most should start.
I don't chime in on the tig weld thread because its what the guy wants to do but if a guy is asking what machine does he need to get it done and take care of the place then the 200 compact mig is for him.
I got a ton of stuff, have all the processes and am proffecient, my tig has a layer of dust, cant recall the last time I used it, the hose rotted off, replaced it 5 yrs ago and still havnt used the thing.
I make 1000's of welds a year, have a dozen old cars trucks, 50 pcs of equipment, 100o;s of feet alum pipe and fittings, never use it.

Equip your small mig machine to weld stainless, mild and aluminum. You'll have at least 2 guns, 3 wires and 3 tanks of gas. For all but the non casual fabricator, mild steel is becoming less and less common.

If I was to do it it again, my money would go first to a nice tig machines, followed by a compact 110/220 mig machine. I listened to those that said mig was the place to start, not for me.

Another vote for the powermig 210! Can't go wrong. Excellent multi-process welder. Runs on 110 and 220v.

I LOVE using this thing.

O but you can, the lack of AC limits your thin aluminum welding capabilities.

 

[BikerDad]

For all but the non casual fabricator, mild steel is becoming less and less common.

Less common? Why is that?

If I was to do it it again, my money would go first to a nice tig machines, followed by a compact 110/220 mig machine. I listened to those that said mig was the place to start, not for me.

O but you can, the lack of AC limits your thin aluminum welding capabilities.

Could you elaborate on why you would go TIG first if you had a do over?

 

[sberry]

Equip your small mig machine to weld stainless, mild and aluminum.

I agree its expensive to do all that, same with tig but my point being is to get a start with the work needs to be done where they are are the workhorses in small shops, 99'5% steel, 1000's of joints for every alloy. My neighbor is a starving sucker with a tig. Only the motorsports crowd and some specialists need it, those hanging out for hire.
Only real reason I have a stick even is I got one.
Even a diy type can gain his money back fixing up some stuff with a mig. I am a career welder,,, I could take the perspective that people should get the kind of thing I like and learn the same way but my view tends to be more of a salesman who wants to score by getting the right machine for them. In my own case was slow in coming where I should be
If you don't have one and wonder you probably already need it, if I had a bigger mig might even go so far as to backtrack and add a 200 with smaller wire for all the knick knacks light sheet, exhaust tubing.

 

[sberry]

If you have your heart set on motor sports and exotic metals then a tig is for you, if you want to get other work done, if you want to build and salvage, if you want to fix then the compact mig is for you. All these welding machine companies didn't really pick out a battle ground here for nothing.
I was a test case for some field models. At first was disappointed when the 210 spooly showed up and still didn't do alum, I was hoping econo tig etc, it just didn't come up and finally set down and run some coupons off, I would have found some use earlier had I realized it would be so good.
I got to hand it to them with this class of machine
Super *** saver here for the maintenance crowd, its fast and relatively cheap.

 

[MoonRise]

Could you elaborate on why you would go TIG first if you had a do over?

I'd guess because with 'enough' machine, TIG can weld anything.

An AC/DC GTAW machine can weld steel, aluminum, stainless, copper, and pretty much anything else that is arc weldable. All using just a tank of argon. (maybe you might want/need an argon-helium mix for some 'thick' aluminum.)

But TIG is a 'slow' manual welding process.

As to the OP, generally get the 'biggest' machine you can afford ($$ and power wise).

You can usually turn a big machine down somewhat, but you can't turn a 'little' machine up any higher on power than its 'max'.

The 120V (or 110V ) MIG machines are (usually) nice machines. When used within their 'limits'.

But those 'limits' are rather easily outgrown if you start to get 'into' welding and/or want/need to weld steel thicker than sheetmetal. (yes, I know that the 125-140 class 120V MIG machines can weld thicker than sheetmetal. Somewhat.) But their main bread-n-butter use is on sheetmetal thickness mild steel. IMHO.

Thicker than sheetmetal uses? No brainer. Get a 240v powered machine. Something in the 180-210 amp class machine (Hobart 187 or 190, Lincoln 175 or 180 or 210/211 or Miller equivalent) can do an awful lot of welding.

To the OP. Want to weld 'almost' anything with GMAW? Get a 250-class machine.

Want to weld pretty much anything at home? Go for the 350-class multi-process machines.

Wait, maybe a Lincoln Air-Vantage 650!!! 4-cylinder 69 hp Cummins turbo diesel, built in generator (12 kw single phase or 20 kw three phase power) and built in air compressor (60 scfm @ 100 psi! No problem running that impact wrench now! ), 600 amps @ 44V DC output at 100% duty cycle.

It does weigh 2018 pounds though.

Don't ask about the price.

Oh, wait, that was last year's model.

Lincoln Air-Vantage 600's for 2016 seem to be all Deutz turbo diesel models. Only 64 hp now. But it is ~400 lbs lighter (1637 lbs). 575 amps @43V DC output @ 100% duty cycle.

The Miller or Lincoln 120-240V machines (Lincoln 210 Multi-process, Lincoln is running a $200 rebate, list price with rebate now $999) can do most 'home' welding. Look into those. Seriously.

 

[sberry]

The last stainless job I did were customer stuff 20 plus years ago. Got some wire and some rods left. 20,000 welds since, cant recall 1 stainless.

 

[DemoFly]

O but you can, the lack of AC limits your thin aluminum welding capabilities.

True but I'm not sure that's a fair argument. A quality AC/DC tig machine is $1500+ by itself.

A multi-process welder is for a pretty specific niche. The duty cycle alone should tell you that.

In an automotive setting, you don't come across much thin aluminum. The only things I tig (Which is rare, I'm not the one in the shop that should be welding) is intake manifolds and intercooler piping/flanges.

 

[sberry]

A 600A machine will run a goodly size wire. Back in the day I work for some big outfits and had 600A machines with innershield on big iron. I remember going back to an apprentice test booth later and run some coupons with same process and smaller machine, wide open was like,,, where is the heat?

 

[sberry]

I think a guy could near build a Nascar without using a tig. My experience and expertise in some respect world be stick welder and background in heavy Ironwork and pipe fitting but I don't think a guy that is 55 and retiring to work on stuff for grand kids needs to have an SA 200 cause I used one at some point.
I would say most of the equipment sold is because more than "be" a welder the user has something they want to do and the easier that expectation is met the more satisfying its going to be.
A 200 has the capacity to fix anything on a pickup and light trailer, the larger wire it will handle is a super boost to its power and it will do sheet on lower settings. A guy can always change the wire size out for a steady diet of sheet but my machine in this class has had 030 for 25 yrs.

 

[ADSR]

True but I'm not sure that's a fair argument. A quality AC/DC tig machine is $1500+ by itself.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EL8UQH4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Marcm157]

I have the Miller 190 and love it. I'm pretty sure the only difference between it and the 211 is that the 190 doesn't have dual voltage. To me it wasn't worth the extra money for the dual voltage. I only use it in my home shop and don't really foresee a need for the 110 side of things.

 

[bumblebee]

Thanks for all the replys. I went with the 220v migpak 15. Came with a cart, a gas bottle(empty), and 2 helmets. One auto darkening and one not.
I might get a different cart but Thats all. Now to get the bottle filled. It is a BOC gas bottle but not sure if I can get it locally or not. I know we have praxair and air liquide.