So i ended up buying an eaton 100 amp main breaker box with 10 spaces. I bought an eaton 60amp breaker for the house because it had the same big wire connectors as 100amp breakers. Since im running a 60amp in house is there any reasons to change the main breaker in the sub box to something less than 100amp?
upgrade to 200amp?
- Thread starter sluginxlt
- Start date
Cool. Just wanted to make sure it sounded right for an inspection . Any body have recomendations for wire. As stated i wanted it to be cable of 100 amp if i ever upgrade. Gonna be about a 90ft run. I was planning copper but i read something about mhf 2 2 4 6 aluminum for a budget but also read about aluminum corrosion issues.... opinions?
Last edited:
James-W
Well-known member
Re: upgrade to 200 amp?
When I built my new garage I had the power company run a new service, 200 amp service to the garage. I get charged as a residential service for both the house and the garage. Different utilities charge a different rate for a meter charge, usually between $10 and $15 per month.
I went that route because if I had branched off the house electrical service, which is a 100 amp service, I was told I would have had to upgrade the service. The power company (around here anyway) will run a new service up to 100 feet for free, either 100 amp or 200 amp. I figured I may as well get the 200 amp service because there is no difference in the monthly meter charge. This way I have all the power I will ever need and I didn't have to screw around with the house electrical service.
When I built my new garage I had the power company run a new service, 200 amp service to the garage. I get charged as a residential service for both the house and the garage. Different utilities charge a different rate for a meter charge, usually between $10 and $15 per month.
I went that route because if I had branched off the house electrical service, which is a 100 amp service, I was told I would have had to upgrade the service. The power company (around here anyway) will run a new service up to 100 feet for free, either 100 amp or 200 amp. I figured I may as well get the 200 amp service because there is no difference in the monthly meter charge. This way I have all the power I will ever need and I didn't have to screw around with the house electrical service.
sberry
Banned
Use the number 2, get it done. Most of the worlds power is delivered to service via aluminum wire. Its what the power company uses.
Your panel is a 1970's vintage ITE, the panel is full of breakers mostly made by the ITE Imperial Corp., Siemens is the successor manufacturer.
The I-T-E catalog number is FEQ20MB.
Wow you seem to know alot about that old thing. So what would be an acceptable 60amp for it?
To recommend a wire we need to know the route. Is it all outside? Are you planning to run conduit? If it is all (or mostly all) outside then 2-2-2-4 MHF will work well. If it goes inside for a good distance then I'd go with Individual THHN conductors. Either way I'd put in conduit.
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sberry
Banned
It can be direct buried but needs piped in the building to the box.
That's more of a good practice thing than a rule. You may find that if you have a bunch of other stuff running in the house and then do something in the garage at the same time you trip the main instead of just the garage. Not really a problem just annoying and can set WAF back a bit.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Yes breaker brand needs to match panel brand except in the case of classified breakers such as Eaton BR breakers, which are allowed to be used in other brands.
GE isnt classified for any other brand of panel. The westinghouse is fine IIRCC but the GE and and possibly the siemens need to be changed as theyre not classified to be in that panel.
Norcal remembers brand change overs better than i do.
Out of curiosity can u take a pic of your panel with the cover removed. If pic in comment #27 is your panel, its a bit blurry so we need a better pic. Cant read the brands.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Man your eyes must be better than mine(Ive got near 20/20 vision) cause they look blurry on my 5s...
That is because am on a laptop, instead of a @#&*!% phone, the details are fuzzy on my iPhone too.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
So the only thing the OP needs to change are the GE breakers.
He can use a 60a siemens for the subfeed
He can use a 60a siemens for the subfeed
so either siemens or eaton will be ok? i think ill just go with a 50 amp to be safe but then the biggest wire that will fit its 4 gauge so i geuss with 4 gauge copper and not worry about being able to upgrade unti there is a time if ever
I'd rather use Siemens, just don't care for Eaton or their predecessors BR line products, which is why I made the remark "Zinsco II".
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Eaton BR will. Eaton CH will NOT!
#4 Cu is roughly equivalent to #2 Al and will do you just fine. See my response in post #38 for all the code references but it'll work either way you want to feed things.
sberry
Banned
60 for 6. I run my home from 50 and 250 ft of 2 alum.If you use 6 use 3 of them and 10 ground. What a guy could do is run it in 2 inch, 1 1/2 if there is 3 bends or less, if it ever came to it yank the 6 and pull larger wire. But a small house with all gas appliances will run from 60 fine.
sberry
Banned
I never had a common garage trip a 60, I have put in a couple dozen, couple of them worked out of regularly. One had 5 hp comp on, auto repair for 30 yrs.
Well at home depot there is only 1 cent difference between thhn 6 and 4 so ill go with 4. Should i still use a 10 ground to connect box to box and then a 10 to sub box to ground rod? Sorry for the never ending questions but i feel im finally getting a real plan.
sberry
Banned
Use 8 with 4. These questions are not a problem, no one has to answer.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
The maximum breaker u can use with #4 cu is 90a so u would need a #8 cu EGC as sberry said.
For the GEC to the rods smallest u can use is a #8 cu but it would need to be in conduit. U can use a solid bare #6 cu for the GEC without sleeving it in conduit if its not subject to damage.
relevant tables are 250.122 for the EGC sizing and 250.66 for the GEC sizing.
what size conduit would be good for pulling the 3 #4 wires and the #8 ground through? its gonna be totoal like 85 feet with 4 elbows. is 1.5" good? also ive never pulled wires so im assumings its better to pull them all at once rather than one at a time?
pattenp
Well-known member
1" conduit meets NEC for three #4's and one #8. 1.25" is better. 1.5" is a little overkill.
Pull them together.
Pull them together.
So i finally got going and ran 1 1/2" conduit and that was a fun job going into my crawl space that is barely deep enough to army crawl. I decided to go with the 2 2 2 4 aluminum and picked it up today. I grabbed two 5/8 " ground rods and #6 bare solid cu. So i need to have the neutral bus isolated and then then #6 running from ground bus to ground rod and then another ground rod 8ft away right?
Cmreschke
Well-known member
2224 aluminum? Not ser I hope?
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
6' minimum between rods.
The 2-2-2-4 AL could be MHF
The 2-2-2-4 AL could be MHF
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Thats the wrong wire!
IF that guy is an electrician, he sure doesnt know his wire types!Thats 3-phase quadraplex. Notice the neutral is yellow NOT white and there is no green wire for the EGC.
Take it back and ask for #2 AL MHF(mobile home feeder).
This is what u need:
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-2-2-2-4-Black-Stranded-AL-USE-MHF-Cable-28712801/202316409
Cmreschke
Well-known member
If the only concern is yellow neutral retake it.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
The other bigger problem i forgot to put in my above comment is that this wire's insulation isnt rated for use inside buildings. The insulation isnt fire resistant- needs to be rated RHH/RHW.
U need different wire. The home depot "electrician" recommended the wrong wire so it should be on him to take it back against their policy!
So even in the conduit in the house its not allowed? I appreciate the help and hopefully they will return it.