Upgrading panel to 200A

[dropd80s]

About to move into my new 40x80 (woohoo!) shop has a dedicated two phase service with only a 100A panel with about 5 or 6 receptacles on it, that's it, not even any lights. There is also no meter in the socket right now. Before I have a meter installed and start running my electrical, I am thinking I will upgrade to a 200A panel. I figure it will be much easier to upgrade now with a virtually blank canvas then to wait till I run out of available amperage in the future. Can anyone tell me what the precautions are that I should take before going to install a new panel? Can I check to see if the service will handle the increased amperage, or is this something I need to verify with my PoCo? If that checks out can I simply swap out the panel and have the meter set, then proceed wiring my building? If I do have to contact the PoCo to verify the service, will they want an inspection done on the panel before installing the meter? Thanks in advance!!

Marvin

 

[jeff000]

Odds are if you are at that sages you will need to upgrade the service wires from the street to the meter and the meter to your panel.

If you just want a larger panel, by all means it will be easy now, and then the wire upgrade will be the same work now as it will be later.

 

[ddawg16]

If you have 100A 240Vac....you have plenty of power...unless you plan to run a 5 ton AC unit, 5hp air compressor and your mig welder at the same time...then you might need 110A.....

BTW....it's not 2ph....it's single phase....you just have 2 hots 180 deg out of phase.....so, 120Vac to neut or 240Vac from hot to hot.

 

[sberry]

It takes a lot of work to overload 100A service.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

shop has a dedicated two phase service with only a 100A panel with about 5 or 6 receptacles on it, that's it, not even any lights.

That is a single phase service. While at one time, way back in the past, there was such a thing as two phase, it no longer exists and POCO's do not supply such.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Everyone is saying don't upgrade, but this is the ideal time to install a brand new panel, and a brand new disconnect outside. It will be much easier to upgrade now, than later. If the run from the transformer is not too long and is overhead, the POCO may not charge at all to install new service and new meter base, or you install a new meter/disconnect combo panel.

I much prefer a outside disconnect. Many places now require it, and it makes the ENTIRE panel inside cold when you are working on it. Don't have to worry about a fish tape or your fingers contacting a hot terminal at the panels disconnect.

In the big scheme of things, panels are not very expensive. Get a huge 40 space panel so you have lots of room to work and expand. Lots of room for double pole breakers for compressors, welder circuits, lift circuits, etc. Get the basics in now, expansion in the future becomes easy.

My 7.5 hp compressor, when it kicks on dims the lights slightly. I have 200 amp service, and the compressor draws 190 amps for a split second during start up, and the lights are already drawing 48 amps (or more if the workbench lights are on).

You have a large building. If you go adding an office to it, lights, air conditioning for the office/restroom, etc, it all adds up.

I do agree, its not easy to load a 100 amp circuit fully but having a large panel and capability of 200 amps makes everything easier in the future.

Charles

 

[Speedy Petey]

An overhead line from the street is the POCO's property and responsibility. They'll replace it at their discretion.
Depending on your area (which you did not mention) to upgrade you'll need to change everything from the outside riser, meter pan, entrance cable/conduit, grounding & bonding, and the panel.
It's NOT as simple as swapping out the panel.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I'm not sold on the outside disconnect. IMO it's added money and not worth it. If you are afraid to run a line into a main panel then you should NOT be doing this work to begin with. Very few areas required this as standard. Parts of the southeast and southwest are pretty much it.

I AM all for upgrading. Staying with 100A for a building that large is silly IMO. For the few hundred dollars you'll spend now you will be MUCH happier later when you need it, and IMO you will need it eventually.

 

[dropd80s]

I appologize for my misuse in terminology. I understand now what the difference between 2 phase and 240Vac single phase. If I change the panel now to a larger unit I feel as though I will not come close to using the 100A that I have currently, but again it will be much easier to upgrade the panel now than after I have over loaded the 100A panel and have to rewire all of it to install a larger panel. If I decide to change the panel only, at what point would I need to inquire about a larger riser, meter pan, entrance cable, and service? Once I have 100A worth of breakers in the box? If I post pics of what I have now, can any of you tell me what I am looking at? I'm in north central Texas, BTW. Thanks again!

 

[jeff000]

I appologize for my misuse in terminology. I understand now what the difference between 2 phase and 240Vac single phase. If I change the panel now to a larger unit I feel as though I will not come close to using the 100A that I have currently, but again it will be much easier to upgrade the panel now than after I have over loaded the 100A panel and have to rewire all of it to install a larger panel. If I decide to change the panel only, at what point would I need to inquire about a larger riser, meter pan, entrance cable, and service? Once I have 100A worth of breakers in the box? If I post pics of what I have now, can any of you tell me what I am looking at? I'm in north central Texas, BTW. Thanks again!

Doing the panel now is cheap, and will save a lot of headache when upgrading the rest later. Doing the feeders and meter now or later doesn't really matter, it's the same amount of work, only difference is you will be out power in your shop for a day.

Look into doing 200a after you trip the 100a main a couple of times.
You will have way more then 100a worth of breakers in your panel. Probably 300a or more worth.

 

[BigGMC]

Didn't mention what your old panel is, but maybe it's one of the undesirables...... thinking Fed Pacif. here. So upgrading in that case would be a no brainer.
I'd look at it this way too, you may not need the extra amperage capability, but you'll surely benifit from the added spaces of the 200A panel. It's nice to be able to break up circuits. As mentioned, and many people dont think about, a couple 240v ckts here and there and panels fill up quick.
PoCo will want inspector to sign off before they stick in a meter.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Didn't mention what your old panel is, but maybe it's one of the undesirables...... thinking Fed Pacif. here. So upgrading in that case would be a no brainer.
I'd look at it this way too, you may not need the extra amperage capability, but you'll surely benifit from the added spaces of the 200A panel. It's nice to be able to break up circuits. As mentioned, and many people dont think about, a couple 240v ckts here and there and panels fill up quick.
PoCo will want inspector to sign off before they stick in a meter.

I was thinking this same thing when I first started reading this thread. Federal Pacific. If by chance that's what it is, then absolutely change it out.

If there is ever a thought you may need more spaces or larger service, there is no better time than the present.

 

[coolreed]

If you have 100A 240Vac....you have plenty of power...unless you plan to run a 5 ton AC unit, 5hp air compressor and your mig welder at the same time...then you might need 110A.....

BTW....it's not 2ph....it's single phase....you just have 2 hots 180 deg out of phase.....so, 120Vac to neut or 240Vac from hot to hot.

The Dawg is correct. You have Single Phase.

100A Service should be fine unless you have some large honkin load.

 

[jvitez]

It seems there are 2 questions being asked:

1. Should I replace the service panel to increase the number of available spaces I have for future circuits?
2. Should I increase total capacity from 100 to 200 amps?

Panels are cheap, so sure, now is a good time to install a 40 space panel and it would be doubtful you'd every run out of physical panel space.

To calculate total load, think up every electrical item you could possibly ever want to have in your shop, that would be running at the same time. AC or electric heat, welder, fans, lights, compressor, etc etc. Add up the WATTAGE not the amperage. Take the total number of watts and divide by 240. THIS is your actual maximum amperage draw. If it's over 100 amps you'll need the POCO to provide you with a larger feeder cable. If it's 100 amps or less, you can install a 200 amp 40 circuit panel, but still have it protected by a 100 amp main breaker.

If you have an outside main breaker of 100 amps, you can still install a service panel with a 200 amp main breaker. This 200 amp breaker will function as a panel disconnect, so no issues if it's rated higher, as the whole panel is being protected by the 100 amp breaker. Or you can buy a "main lugs" subpanel, though it's hard to find a 40 circuit version (at least here in Canada it is, but we don't have outdoor disconnects either. YMMV!)

 

[dropd80s]

Thanks for all your advise. I think I will do just that, Swap in a 40 circuit panel protected by a 100A Main breaker for now. Is there a specific brand or style panel I should be looking for? I believe some panels requre different style breakers?

 

[BigGMC]

How old is the house panel? Match the shop panel to that and only keep one style of breaker on hand.
SquareD Homeline is very popular, inexpensive, no frills. Thier QO series is higher grade (more expensive), and the breakers have trip indicators.
Seems, by me anyway, every hardware store no matter how small carries SquareD breakers.