upgrading power?

[danielbuck]

I only have 110 power in the house that I am renting, and all of the breakers are 15amp. I find I'm tripping the breaker quite often while welding in the garage when I have the power turned up, particularly while stick/arc welding. If I turn the power down it doesn't pop so quickly, but with 110, I usually need all the power I can get.

Both of my welding machines are dual voltage, capable of being plugged into 110 and 220 with different cables. I invested in that when I purchased them, knowing I would eventually want/have 220 power.

I really don't know much about electricity. At the very least I would like to upgrade the breaker and/or wiring to have a more reliable 110 power with more amps, so that I don't keep popping the breaker all the time. But ideally I'd like to ALSO put in a 50 amp 220 into the garage.




I'd like to get a better idea of what is involved to make this happen, before I bring it up with my landlord to try and get his permission to proceed, and before I call an electrition to get an estimate. And I'd rather have an electrition do the work, to make sure it's done safely/properly and up to code.

The breaker panel is not in the garage, it's about 10 feet from the back of the garage. on the side of the house. Garage and house share one wall, but no doors or windows shared.

Is this a fairly simple task for an electrition? or is it involved? I believe the house (and probably all of the wiring) is from the 1950s, a small 2 bedroom house with gas appliances and only 110 15amp power.

 

[Mustang51js]

You would need to replace everything as far as the service goes,and have power company replace the wire to the house. Are you sure you only have 110 to the house or just don't have any 220 breakers,can you take a pic of your panel. You would be looking in the area of $800-$2000 depending on location and what size service you go with. Then you can run 220 lines to the locations you need.

 

[danielbuck]

I'll take a photo of it tonight when I get home, thanks

 

[Speedy Petey]

You are renting this house. Your ONLY recourse is to call the landlord and explain the problem to them.

Did you now know this before signing the lease? Meaning that the house only had 120V power? Knowing that you'd be doing things like welding you should have checked the system to see if it would support this kind of activity.

 

[gasaxeman]

Major involved

 

[danielbuck]

Here's the breaker, the top most breaker is the garage.

Is the lower left one a double? It appears to be, but I don't know what part of the house that is, it's not labeled.

You are renting this house. Your ONLY recourse is to call the landlord and explain the problem to them.

Did you now know this before signing the lease? Meaning that the house only had 120V power? Knowing that you'd be doing things like welding you should have checked the system to see if it would support this kind of activity.

When I first moved in several years ago, I didn't know that I was going to start learning to weld

 

[raiderhillbilly]

How about a 220v Welder/Generator? If you are going to spend major money, you could at least make it portable, so you can take it with you if you move.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...&type=search&gclid=CI7-jI_u470CFSwV7AodsH0Ahg

 

[danielbuck]

How about a 220v Welder/Generator? If you are going to spend major money, you could at least make it portable, so you can take it with you if you move.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...&type=search&gclid=CI7-jI_u470CFSwV7AodsH0Ahg

I've thought about that, and indeed I would like the portability side of it. I don't know how much wattage I would need though?

 

[Mustang51js]

The lower left is a tandom breaker which is two breakers in one slot. Can you take the cover off and take a pic of the wires that feed the panel,then we can tell what power you have. There may be a main panel or breaker somewhere else because that almost looks like a sub panel. I do know that there was water in that panel or old breakers were used in it. Could be a old 60 amp service. Do you have any testing equipment. By taking cover off would be easiest way to tell by looking at it.

 

[danielbuck]

I do have a multimeter, but I would be lying to you if I told you I knew how to use it I've only used it to test continuity and to test battery voltages. I somehow managed to re-wire my old jeep pretty good, even though I still feel like I don't know anything about electricity

I'll take the cover off and have a look and take a photo on my lunch break today.

 

[Mustang51js]

You wanna take a pic of the wires that are going to a main breaker if you have one or on the lugs that should be on the top of the bus bars where breakers clip on.

 

[sands35]

the house that I am renting

Key phrase.

I doubt the panel is only 110. But you never know.

I don't know how far the panel is from where you want to weld, but I'd run a 30-40 amp line to that spot. The key is to minimize cost and make sure your landlord is OK with it.

 

[sberry]

I was at one the other day where the owner thought he had 120, ****, 100A panel,,, a few ft of wire and was good to go.

As Mustang said, you need a pic of this with the cover off.

 

[neel2008]

Tell the landlord you would like 220 in the garage, if he is not interested in doing so, go rent a different house....I would not consider messing with the wiring of a house I am renting....

 

[danielbuck]

Tell the landlord you would like 220 in the garage, if he is not interested in doing so, go rent a different house....

clearly you have never tried to find a reasonably priced house to rent in Los Angeles before. It's not exactly something you can do on a whim. I am lucky to have found a place with a garage in a fairly nice neighborhood that I can afford that is close by my work, and a landlord that doesn't mind me taking apart my jeeps in the driveway. No way I'd consider trying to move elsewhere any time soon unless I get a nice raise at work.






Here's the breaker box with the cover removed. As mentioned before, the breaker for the garage is the upper most left hand breaker.

I talked with my landlord today, asked him if there's anything we could to do keep the breaker from popping while I'm welding, I told him that my machines both require 20amp breakers to run on 110 power (I didn't know or understand that until now, electricity isn't something I'm familiar with!), and that and all of the breakers on the house are 15 amp.

He said it would be no problem for him to put in a 20 or 30 amp breaker and run new wires to an existing outlet that is right below the box. From there, I can just plug my 10 gauge extension cable into that outlet any time I need to weld. That will solve my immediate problem

He said running a 220 line into the garage, or running the new 20/30 amp proper gauged wires for the 110 line into the garage would be more complicated, since they go underground and under the house. But he'll see what he can do. He is an old construction guy, so I trust his judgement. In the mean time, I'll at least have proper sized breakers for running the machines on 110 power.

 

[Mustang51js]

Well good news is that is 220 volts, you just need to have a line ran from the box to where you need it. I did notice that you have no main breaker on your panel and if you do have one outside that means the panel you pictured is hooked up wrong, your grounds are going to the nuetral bar and doesn't look like the ground bar is bonded with the casing. Bottom right breaker has two wires under one screw when you have plenty of space for another breaker. And all the breakers look like they are used and were wet at one time.

 

[Mustang51js]

Oh and that neutral wire is under the same lug as the main nuetral wire. Who ever did that set up doesn't know electric very well and that's a sloppy installation

 

[Mustang51js]

The small bar on the right is supposed to be your neutral bar and the long bar on the sides of breakers is supposed to be the ground bar with a bonding screw where they put the oversized lug not needed. You really need to have the land lord have an electrician rewrite that panel the right way,but he's the one that prob did it that way anyway.

 

[danielbuck]

I don't know if he was the one that did it or not. He didn't seem to know what was in there until we opened it up and looked at it. I'll mention that to him though, thanks for the heads up! I don't know what I'm looking at

Good to know that it does have 220, Is that the two black wires coming up and over the breakers, each a 110 line?

 

[n8n]

that's the assumption, yes.

I'm assuming that the main breaker is elsewhere? Usually it's in the main breaker panel, but it's not in your case. I guess it's in a box by the meter?

Also, code requires that all breakers be labeled by what they serve. if you don't have a schedule on the door to the panel, making one might not be a bad idea, because it really can come in handy.

Looks like you've got two connections on the breaker on the lower right. That's not necessarily a violation, but I'd be tempted to add another 15A breaker and split it apart just so the breaker doesn't trip if you happen to inadvertantly use two large draw appliances at the same time.

 

[danielbuck]

I'm not sure where the main breaker is. This is the only one that I see. I'll try and find where the meter is

 

[n8n]

Now that I look at this this is wired like a subpanel. I'm wondering if the main panel is elsewhere? If it were the main panel there would only be three wires I'd think not four.

If that is in fact a subpanel all the bare ground wires should be connected to the bar on the right and all the white neutral wires should be connected to the one closer to the breakers, and the two should not be bonded together (and the neutral bus should be isolated from the box, which appears to be the case.)

 

[Mustang51js]

If that's intended to be a sub panel then the grounding electrode shouldn't be in that box. I bet that someone changed the panel and never put in a main breaker. You are correct in that each of the black wires are 110 volts each. To make it somewhat right you would need the white wires on the bar to the right and all the bare grounds on bar next to breakers. You need to extend the small wire connected under the same lug as the main nuetral wire. And your not supposed to have two wires under one screw, you need to wirenut them together with a tail if you want to keep them on one breaker. Look around your meter for a main breaker box.