american lockpicker
Banned
Yea COO is very important when reselling.
USA When Not Marked?
- Thread starter Bull
- Start date
Yea COO is very important when reselling.
chadster1
Well-known member
I have the Snap-on website that lists the COO as USA.
I have product announcements relating to the dual 80 ratchets that state the COO as made in the USA.
I have packages on my truck right now that contain dual 80 ratchets that state made in the USA.
I have personally heard from Tom Ward (then current, now former) president of Snap-on Tools that the ratchet is 100% made in the USA.
I have personally talked to numerous people employed by Snap-on Tools that state that the ratchet is made in the USA.
There have been numerous emails posted in this forum from Snap-on that state that the ratchet is made in the USA.
Other than that, I guess I have no proof.
You know this? How do you know this?
chadster1
Well-known member
You are just making stuff up.
If they did remove the USA to avoid lawsuits, then why does the website, packaging and every other reference to the COO of the Dual 80 ratchets state that its made in the USA?
kc-steve
Well-known member
Chad, I'm not trying to kick the can down the road, but everything you mention can be changed at any time, except a permanent stamp on the tool itself. And that is why I GENERALLY will only buy tools that have that permanent stamp, so I can get top dollar on resale value.
Steve
Hammer1963
Well-known member
Kc-steve,
When I was still building dies and forgings, Stanley came to our shop and confiscated all the MAC owned tooling that we were currently building or repairing except for the dies for the tool boxes we were working on. I knew then that it was time to start thinking about turning my hobby into my vocation. Best decision I've made.
I then sold or traded off all the MAC product I had. Didn't see a need in supporting a company that no longer wanted to support its tool makers. Like yourself, I do like to have a reference of where I purchased or where the tool was made when it comes time to move that tool.
As much as I hate to say it, about 15% of the tools in my collection are from Taiwan with about 10% German, 5% Spanish and 70% USA. I'd love nothing more than for all of them to be be from the USA, but that's long past. Welcome to the new world. Our world, not our parent's.
When I was still building dies and forgings, Stanley came to our shop and confiscated all the MAC owned tooling that we were currently building or repairing except for the dies for the tool boxes we were working on. I knew then that it was time to start thinking about turning my hobby into my vocation. Best decision I've made.
I then sold or traded off all the MAC product I had. Didn't see a need in supporting a company that no longer wanted to support its tool makers. Like yourself, I do like to have a reference of where I purchased or where the tool was made when it comes time to move that tool.
As much as I hate to say it, about 15% of the tools in my collection are from Taiwan with about 10% German, 5% Spanish and 70% USA. I'd love nothing more than for all of them to be be from the USA, but that's long past. Welcome to the new world. Our world, not our parent's.
No... 80% of my tools are Snap On. I own Snap On, Mac, Matco, Craftsman, Cronwell, and now Wright but most of my tools are Snap On. I'm a diesel mechanic. I've been buying Snap On ratchets since 1988....That is until they removed USA from the ratchet. I'm not going to pay Snap On prices without that USA stamp.
If Snap On could legally stamp the Daul 80 ratchets USA they would.
I purchased a Lisle tool not too long ago. Lisle apparently has tools manufactured here and abroad. The packaging of the tool I purchased stated the COO as the U.S.A. along with a picture of a U.S.A. flag. After removing the packaging I found that the tool was stamped with "Made in China". 
This deceitful **** pisses me off enough to not ever purchase a Lisle manufactured tool again.
This deceitful **** pisses me off enough to not ever purchase a Lisle manufactured tool again.kc-steve
Well-known member
Hammer again I agree with you, but I think you are missing my main point. I am careful in saying that I GENERALLY buy "made in USA" for the possible higher resale value (as in used tools for sale).
My overall tool inventory is very similar to your own except that I probably don't have any Spanish made tools and only a couple of German tools. But to be frank, I am probably your parent's age. I don't think that influences my opinion that I try to buy tools that can be eventually sold at the best prices in the future ONLY because they have the "USA" stamp on them.
I'm thinking of resale value, and neither you nor I can change that.
Tools stamped with "made in USA" will generally sell at higher used prices than others without it.
Steve
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The only proof is that USA is not on the ratchet.
Being that you keep responding to the same quotes over and over, Its obviously important to you. Here is the Link to the FTC complaint section where you can let your thoughts be heard. I went thru and read some of the Snap on comments and it appears that back in 97 or so when they tried to Pass/Change the % on what was required for a Tool to have "Made in the USA" Snap On was a large opponent of allowing up to 25% of a product to be Imported and still bear the stamp. There are quite a few letters concerning this from Field techs all the way up to the Executives.
Why don't they put the made in usa on the thing then?
Point is if they start making them in Taiwan in a couple years noone is going to know the old USA ones were made in USA , those things will lose value fast when the Taiwan/Chi-com stuff starts coming out.
Exactly. If it's not stamped USA I'm not paying USA prices.
What's the official position on why snap on pulled USA off the actual ratchet again??
Not trying to stir the pot I honestly don't know.What's the official position on why snap on pulled USA off the actual ratchet again??
Globalization... For some reason they feel "They" can better reach Global markets without the USA Stamp. And when i say "They" im not saying Chad or Shaun or any of the other Minions, It was a decision that was made at the Top of the food chain. All Manufacturers whether stateside or abroad are looking for the Next Market. And while i think the United States is the best country in the World, unfortunately there are other countries that frown upon us.
This is from the Wright Tool Website:
Although we are made in the U.S.A., our reach is global. We're supporting the global infrastructure with reach in areas such as Dubai, Spain, and Russia. We make heavy-duty hand tools you have come to depend on in industries such as Refinery, Power Generation, Distribution & Transmission, Mining, and Wind Turbines. All around the world end-users know if they need a heavy-duty hand tool they can rely on and keep them safe, they need a Wright Tool
Although i havent seen any tools lacking the USA stamp, Its obvious they are also trying to get into the Global Mix.
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
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OK, I've never questioned the quality of the Dual 80 ratchets. I think they are better than excellant. Here's the thing. Just because a company tells you something doesn't make it the gospel. Companies hide things (No new there) so if you beleive everything Snap-On tells you thats fine. Sorry I'm not buying that they took the USA stamp off to appease others. As much controversy that has surrounded this subject that if this ratchet was really all US made that it would still be proudly wearing the stamp.
I really wouldn't care if it was made in Taiwan it's still a super nice tool. I'd still pay good money for it. I'd pay more for it to be wearing the USA stamp. There is a reason for everything. The missing stamp is no exception. Saying Snap-On won't lie is like saying the government won't lie. It's big business, they lie.
I may be right, I may be wrong but it's my firm beleif Snap-On isn't being upfront. Nothing short of seeing the USA back on the ratchets would change my mind. But that would make them accountable so I don't see it happening soon.
I really wouldn't care if it was made in Taiwan it's still a super nice tool. I'd still pay good money for it. I'd pay more for it to be wearing the USA stamp. There is a reason for everything. The missing stamp is no exception. Saying Snap-On won't lie is like saying the government won't lie. It's big business, they lie.
I may be right, I may be wrong but it's my firm beleif Snap-On isn't being upfront. Nothing short of seeing the USA back on the ratchets would change my mind. But that would make them accountable so I don't see it happening soon.
What part of claiming the COO is USA on the package and via the website makes them Not Acountable. I dont get it... Have any of you actually took the time to read the FTC guidlines on establishing the COO of tools? If you ask a company what the COO of there tool is, and they LIE to American Consumers they can and will be held accountable if the proper channels are followed.
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
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There are a lot of excuses they could come up. Companies figure in lawsuits. Who is going to file suit over an 80 dollar ratchet? But please help yourself to another glass of kool-aid
There are a lot of excuses they could come up. Companies figure in lawsuits. Who is going to file suit over an 80 dollar ratchet? But please help yourself to another glass of kool-aid
What kind of excuses? Suit? Did you not see the FTC complaint link i posted a few posts up? There is obviously enough people here who fear they are being duped, if all of you file a complaint you might change america. Good Luck..
toolmaker1
Well-known member
I don't really have a dog in this fight but one thing I find odd is the fact that if snapon was just doing this to appease foreign markets then why the hell just leave the coo off dual 80 rat's and nothing else??? Also we make products for international markets everyday we have some injection molds with 10 sets of product name inserts that are interchangable depending on where they are going. I don't understand why snapon couldn't have 2 sets of stamping /forging dies??? Either blantent lies or just stupidity either way something's fishy. my 2 cents YMMV
Don't trust web sights for current information. At one time it probable whose true. On two recent occasions I've been bitten by that false information.
Imported but advertised USA
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRI...d=16558Pstoreid=1040626Ppagenumber=3633Pmode=
These are imported to.
http://cmforge.com/farm_hardware/dyproducts.asp?product_id=561
Imported but advertised USA
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRI...d=16558Pstoreid=1040626Ppagenumber=3633Pmode=
These are imported to.
http://cmforge.com/farm_hardware/dyproducts.asp?product_id=561
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mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
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What kind of excuses? Suit? Did you not see the FTC complaint link i posted a few posts up? There is obviously enough people here who fear they are being duped, if all of you file a complaint you might change america. Good Luck..
No I didn't read the link you posted. Just like Snap-On I've witnessed enough from both I don't have much faith in either.
They have removed the USA off a few products including Ratcheting wrenches, Pliers and Some of the Rats. There may be more but thats all i can confirm based on Personal Owned tools.
I wonder if Stanley thought the same thing when they had to pay Damages account knowingly duping American Consumers with false COO.
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chadster1
Well-known member
There are a lot of excuses they could come up. Companies figure in lawsuits. Who is going to file suit over an 80 dollar ratchet? But please help yourself to another glass of kool-aid
One of Snap-on's largest customers might file suit. The US government.
send 'em back ask for a refund
mrholeshot
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That would be like the Junkie going to police saying his dealer stole his drugs, lol
I've heard people say globalization before about Snap-on, but always thought that was just speculation. Got a link?
Link
Copy of the Email from page 141 of the link.
Hi Kole
I first off wanted to thank you for your feedback!
Secondly, I have some facts for you about Snap-on's vision.
Snap-on is known for quality, innovation and performance. These are
the main reasons our customers purchase from us.
Snap-on has a proud 90 year heritage in the US.
Snap-on Tools has 3,100 associates and nearled 3,500 US franchisees.
We own some of the finest manufacturing operations in the US, and we
will continue to do so. At the same time, Snap-on is a global company
and we are moving to a global positioning of products and brand.
Snap-on sells serval dozen brands of tools, tool storage, equipment and
software in the many countrys we serve. Only the Snap-on brand is sold
in every one of the countries we serve, and in most locations outside
the US, the country of origin is not important to customers.
Quality, innovation, and performance are important to customers sold
everywhere. In the US, some customers would prefer tools made in the
USA, yet at the same time, the majority do not care where the tool is
made, as long as it delivers quality, innovation and performance. The
numbers of core customers who value "made ni the USA" has shrunk and is
still shrinking.
As we move to a global position, you will see some on going product
communication changes. Many, Snap-on products, including some tool
storage do not carry the Made in USA markings and have not for some
time. This DOES NOT mean a change in manufacturing strategy, but a
continued work to being a global brand leader.
Thank you
Tim
Now im going to bed, I had to move america last night.
Someone above asked a good question that got me to thinking. If a company currently produces a tool 100% in the USA, but the tool is not stamped with any USA markings, then what happens in the future if that company decides to produce the tool elsewhere? The USA-made and foreign made tools will have no distinction.
The Blackhawk tool I am looking at apparently is an older USA made model, according to information that a dear member PMed me. That same tool is still produced, and I assume it is still made here. But since Stanley also has tools made overseas, there is no way I could distinguish domestic from foreign manufacture, unless there was an obvious quality difference.
The Blackhawk tool I am looking at apparently is an older USA made model, according to information that a dear member PMed me. That same tool is still produced, and I assume it is still made here. But since Stanley also has tools made overseas, there is no way I could distinguish domestic from foreign manufacture, unless there was an obvious quality difference.
chadster1
Well-known member
Now this debate is venturing into the area of what might happen in the future. If anyone has any definitive answers on that, I would like to get some stock tips from them.
Hi Chad,
For me, it is sort of a present issue, not a future one. Like I said, the Blackhawk tool is not marked USA (it's a torque wrench) but I have been told that it is still made here. I wasn't told by the company, just a member here who knows his tools. But it is a legitimate question that I have: if the same model number tool was produced domestically ten years ago and now was being made overseas, I would have no way of telling the difference, and their used values would have to be identical, even if I put a premium on the USA manufacture.
I understand your sensitivity because so many people kick the horse about the SO ratchets, but I'm not talking about SO, so please don't take my questions to be about your product.
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
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Translation
Dear Kole,
Sit back for a moment while I blow smoke up your ***. We removed the marks and this is the excuse that our lawyers told us to tell. PS things will continue to get worse as we slowly brainwash America into our Global (aka outsorce) market. We will still sell our outsorced tools at the normal staggering price point we always have.
Thank You, Tim
american lockpicker
Banned
@ Chadster1 Nice avatar. Thats how Snap-On ratchets(and the rest of their tools) should look.
@ mrholeshot sad but true.
@ mrholeshot sad but true.
lalaland
Banned
Graymills - Craig
Well-known member
I'm looking at a tool that has no "USA" stamping. I always assume no stamp means no USA. The seller did not know anything about it. I found the tool on Grainger's website, and they claim the COO is USA. What is your experience in this area? Are COO statements from places like Grainger reliable? Why would a USA made tool not bear the stamp?
As a Grainger vendor, I know that we have to certify origin. So, yeah, I'd trust what they say.
lalaland
Banned
look on their web site
Coo subject to change without warning......
Id trust them too if I where you