Using torque sticks with Cordless electric impacts??

[ajchien]

Im thinking about purchasing torque sticks to go along with a cordless electric impact.

From what I understand, torque sticks are calibrated with a specific gun / air pressure in mind. Such as accurate when used with a gun generating 375-400ft/lbs.

Well, if I have an cordless electric impact that delivers 200 or 300 ft/lbs, it seems that the sticks would not be accurate.

But could I use them with some trial and error testing? For hypothetical example, if I were to use a 200 ft lb electric impact with a 150lb stick, could I get an relatively consistent torque of around 75 as a result?

 

[DanInVA]

We demo`ed a w7150 at work with torque sticks on wheels. It didn't have any trouble. As for a lower powered one, I am not really sure. I don't see why you couldn't try them out and use a torque wrench to see where it gets you.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

I don't see why you couldn't try them out and use a torque wrench to see where it gets you.

Just what I was thinking reading the OP.

 

[teamarctic]

Have read in the past to not use torque sticks with electric impacts. Something with the battery not always being fully charged so youre not always getting the same torque everytime

 

[johninct]

Torque sticks need to be used with an impact that is putting out around 250 ft lb. The closer to that the more accurate the torque to the spec. I still use my cordless Snap-On 3850 with torque sticks then check with a torque wrench and they seem pretty close.

 

[nicksnothereman]

You could boff the weight (using a higher torque stick to get a lesser value) but that would require measuring with a regular torque wrench to get an idea where you're at. On lug torque no big deal. Not sure I'd go there with anything else it's um..."bad mechanicking".

 

[kelpaso1]

Torque sticks are just a lazy mans way. They are fairly inaccurate depending on impact gun, air pressure, worn out etc.

Do it the right way and zip the nuts on with your gun at the lowest setting. Then lower the tires to just touch the ground just enough to keep them from rotating and torque them properly with a real torque wrench.

 

[dnschmidt]

All torque sticks are expected to be used with an impact having over 400 ft-lb of maximum torque. My two Milwaukee 1/2 cordless impacts easily surpass that requirement. Also, lithium ion batteries do not gradually loose their power they run at nearly full power until their internal electronics shut them off cold. So no worries about tired batteries. Torque sticks work fine with powerful lithium ion battery impacts.

 

[Buckgnarly]

All torque sticks are expected to be used with an impact having over 400 ft-lb of maximum torque. My two Milwaukee 1/2 cordless impacts easily surpass that requirement. Also, lithium ion batteries do not gradually loose their power they run at nearly full power until their internal electronics shut them off cold. So no worries about tired batteries. Torque sticks work fine with powerful lithium ion battery impacts.

Guess Pro-Cut missed your internet memo....
You always have to be wary of internet instructions, especially when people use absolutes with them.

http://www.procutinternational.com/pdf/old_pdf/Torqstik_Chart.pdf

KenTool too....

http://www.kentool.com/index.php/pr...kit-for-passenger-car-light-truck-detail#tab5


and NAPA....

file:///home/chronos/u-991cfa9e184c250026e2f91e867a6f6604f5a841/Downloads/BES-06-14.pdf

 

[dnschmidt]

Accutorq is the original manufacturer to torque sticks and they are out of Sweden. I didn't say that they could not be used with less powerful impacts it's just that I don't have any of those. All good air impacts put out at least 400 ft-lb. so I used that as a baseline. The way these work is by internal reflection. Above the rated torque the extra torque is converted to internal vibrations (heat) in the spring steel used to make the torque stick. You'll notice that the higher the torque value the thicker the torque stick's shaft. Accutorq makes these up to very high torque values. My guess is that any impact having twice the rated torque stick value would work perfectly. When I use my FUEL 1/2" impact (700 ft-lb capable) my 100# torque stick actually goes into extreme vibration which is pretty scary much more so than when I use my Non-Fuel cordless version or my I-R 231 air impact both of which have less power (about 450 ft-lb.).

 

[MRunabout]

I use a cordless with torque sticks but I still go around with my torque wrench to double check.

 

[151marker]

I'd never trust a torque stick by itself. Followed by a torque wrench too many times to find it off. My thoughts, torque stick to not over tighten, then torqued to spec with a torque wrench. As for the cordless tools, I've yet to notice a difference with a Dewalt 18v(300lb), Mac/aircat air(600lb), Snap on 18v 7850 cordless(600lb) or a Snap on MG725 air.

Condition of the stud had far more effect.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Accutorq is the original manufacturer to torque sticks and they are out of Sweden. I didn't say that they could not be used with less powerful impacts it's just that I don't have any of those. All good air impacts put out at least 400 ft-lb. so I used that as a baseline. The way these work is by internal reflection. Above the rated torque the extra torque is converted to internal vibrations (heat) in the spring steel used to make the torque stick. You'll notice that the higher the torque value the thicker the torque stick's shaft. Accutorq makes these up to very high torque values. My guess is that any impact having twice the rated torque stick value would work perfectly. When I use my FUEL 1/2" impact (700 ft-lb capable) my 100# torque stick actually goes into extreme vibration which is pretty scary much more so than when I use my Non-Fuel cordless version or my I-R 231 air impact both of which have less power (about 450 ft-lb.).

Might want to check even AcuTorq.....they spec 150 to 250....read #17

http://www.ktoolinternational.com/PDFs/WhyChooseAccuTorq.pdf

I use mine with an IR231, but never with my MG725 or IR 2135 for this reason. In fact, the IR231 is a dedicated wheel gun. I guess you could use it on a lower setting though for more powerful guns.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Torque sticks are just a lazy mans way. They are fairly inaccurate depending on impact gun, air pressure, worn out etc.

Do it the right way and zip the nuts on with your gun at the lowest setting. Then lower the tires to just touch the ground just enough to keep them from rotating and torque them properly with a real torque wrench.

That's find for a home mechanic. Professionals don't have time for that

 

[mp23]

That's find for a home mechanic. Professionals don't have time for that

aren't professionals supposed to torque things properly?

 

[WhiffySpark]

aren't professionals supposed to torque things properly?

Torque? Lol. Very very few things get "torqued"

 

[MikeF2316]

I used a Princess Auto torque stick on my Milwaukee 2763 a couple of weeks ago for the first time. To test, I marked the wheel bolts, loosened slightly and retightened with my torque wrench and all were fine.

 

[Formula]

That's find for a home mechanic. Professionals don't have time for that

Most all the guys in my shop use a torque wrench daily, even on lugnuts. There are a couple of hacks that just tighten everything down with an impact. Funny thing is those guys are the guys who have a steady stream of combacks.

 

[devoncoolman]

If u guys had to remove and install as many wheels as we do your attitudes would change about torque sticks. I will hand torque specialty wheels and expensive wheels/ delicate wheels. But for your average car torque sticks get the wheel torque close enough to spec.

 

[MattPersman]

It's time for all the arm chair mechanics to come in and say you are doing all this wrong and they would never bring their car to you.

 

[Formula]

If u guys had to remove and install as many wheels as we do your attitudes would change about torque sticks. I will hand torque specialty wheels and expensive wheels/ delicate wheels. But for your average car torque sticks get the wheel torque close enough to spec.

I've been working as a mechanic for close to 25 years, so I've had my fair share of wheels to take off. When installing them, I run them down on the lowest setting on my impact, then lower the car down and finish them with a torque wrench. It maybe takes an extra minute at the most, so saving time really isn't an issue. The issue is laziness and if you take pride in your work. If you think "close enough" is good that says a lot.

 

[sberry]

I use an air impact. Have never used a stick.

 

[dnschmidt]

I own at least 20 torque wrenches (that could be an underestimate by a considerable margin after AAPEX as I'm picking up several new digital models there next week) and when I put wheels on my own car I use a torque stick. THEY WORK. If it works what's the purpose of "following up" with a torque wrench? When one considers how a torque stick achieves it's torque value (the diameter of it's shaft, which can be controlled with CNC machines to a ten thousands of an inch) There is a lot more probability that the torque wrench you would subsequently use is less accurate than the torque stick. A chunk of spring steel has a hell of a lot less to go wrong with it than a torque wrench. It's a brilliant discovery, IT WORKS. Why can't people accept this fact.

 

[sberry]

How does Nascar do this?

 

[dowmace]

How does Nascar do this?

A very expensive application specific impact

 

[MRunabout]

I used to work at Discount Tire/America's Tire and currently work at a dealership and we've always used torque wrenches on lug nuts. I use a torque stick followed by a torque wrench and document my work appropriately as customers can be lying SOBs.

 

[abvw]

I've been working as a mechanic for close to 25 years, so I've had my fair share of wheels to take off. When installing them, I run them down on the lowest setting on my impact, then lower the car down and finish them with a torque wrench. It maybe takes an extra minute at the most, so saving time really isn't an issue. The issue is laziness and if you take pride in your work. If you think "close enough" is good that says a lot.

That method, from my experience, only works well with steelies (the bores flexes a little bit and put a tension load on the lugs and tightens the wheel to the hub). If you do this with aluminum rims, there's a chance that you don't get the wheels snug enough and get a false reading from your torque wrench.

I've jammed lugs on tight with various 100-120 ft-lb rated cordless impacts (both wrench and hex driver with adaptors) and got very consistent results. Never had a lug turned by my 1/2" impact+torque stick or torque wrench. That is when I figured that if my 12V cordless can take off the lugs they are more than capable of putting them back on, tight. I trust my tools. Tool manufacturers are usually quite spot on (I think industry standard allows 2-5% tolerance) with their published specs, otherwise they'd be sued left right and center.

I don't see a problem with over tightening (to a certain extend, I'm not stupid enough to jam it with my 2135timax on full throttle) as long as the fasteners don't get damaged/broken, once the fasteners bottom out there's only so much more they can be moved until the metal stretches/deforms. Dealing with overtightened lugs can be frustrating but in the end, having to tow your car in to change a spare is better than having the wheel(s) fly off on you while driving on the highway.

Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk

 

[sberry]

I find it really hard to figure out how hard the electric is hitting, I have a 4 speed on my CP and watch the socket rotation and can get really close. I check them on occasion, my master uses a torque wrench, I have had him check mine.

 

[dragonballz]

I used to work at Discount Tire/America's Tire and currently work at a dealership and we've always used torque wrenches on lug nuts. I use a torque stick followed by a torque wrench and document my work appropriately as customers can be lying SOBs.

What's the point of a torque stick then?

I just gun them on with my 3/8" gun at low power, then hit it with the torque wrench. I usually get about 1/8" or less turn out of the wrench until it clicks.

 

[TOOLFREEQ]

That's find for a home mechanic. Professionals don't have time for that

YEA, professionals only have time to make sure it's close to right!!

 

[Schurkey]

Torque sticks are just a lazy mans way. They are fairly inaccurate depending on impact gun, air pressure, worn out etc.

Do it the right way and zip the nuts on with your gun at the lowest setting. Then lower the tires to just touch the ground just enough to keep them from rotating and torque them properly with a real torque wrench.

^^^ DING! DING!! DING!!! We HAVE a WINNER!

 

[just a noob]

I use torque sticks on my Milwaukee 1/2 gun(non fuel) and they get them pretty close.

 

[kelpaso1]

That's find for a home mechanic. Professionals don't have time for that

********

If you are that lazy you aint no professional

 

[Formula]

That method, from my experience, only works well with steelies (the bores flexes a little bit and put a tension load on the lugs and tightens the wheel to the hub). If you do this with aluminum rims, there's a chance that you don't get the wheels snug enough and get a false reading from your torque wrench.

I've jammed lugs on tight with various 100-120 ft-lb rated cordless impacts (both wrench and hex driver with adaptors) and got very consistent results. Never had a lug turned by my 1/2" impact+torque stick or torque wrench. That is when I figured that if my 12V cordless can take off the lugs they are more than capable of putting them back on, tight. I trust my tools. Tool manufacturers are usually quite spot on (I think industry standard allows 2-5% tolerance) with their published specs, otherwise they'd be sued left right and center.

I don't see a problem with over tightening (to a certain extend, I'm not stupid enough to jam it with my 2135timax on full throttle) as long as the fasteners don't get damaged/broken, once the fasteners bottom out there's only so much more they can be moved until the metal stretches/deforms. Dealing with overtightened lugs can be frustrating but in the end, having to tow your car in to change a spare is better than having the wheel(s) fly off on you while driving on the highway.

Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you're working on, but my impact gun set on the lowest setting will tighten the lugs down to approximately 80-90 lb ft. of torque. Then I'll go through a final pass based on specified torque for that given vehicle. I work on GM's and torque specs will vary quite a bit depending on the vehicle.

Just running them down creates problems in the long run besides over tightened lugnuts. We've seen plenty of cars come back with warped rotors and brake pulsations from the oil change kids zipping wheels down with an impact.

 

[ajchien]

OP back again.

So I got myself a set of torque extensions. Testing them with my Ryobi 1/2" impact, they're surprisingly right on target.

Fwiw, I plan to use the sticks to put on wheels, slightly under torqued, and then finish with a torque wrench. I think I could just trust them to be right on, but I just don't have enough experience with them yet. And why did i get then? Mostly because I can't feel 'snug' on my cordless impact. Either I'm so loose that my wheel isn't seated, or I'm way over tightened.

 

[echerbst]

I have had my ingersoll 7150 20v impact not fully tighten lugnuts with torque stick. I found this the case when battery is down to one light left. When fresh not an issue. I have been using torque sticks for 15 years and never had an issue with my air power impacts, but had some lugs come loose with the electric. I have checked my torque sticks from time to time and are always close for torque, never had any warped rotors and issues, so there is no issue using them with a good impact.

So either torque wrench or air powered impact with stick. Or full charge battery. Not worth taking risk so I wont tighten lugs with electric anymore.

 

[WhiffySpark]

********

If you are that lazy you aint no professional

Considering I push anywhere from 30 to 90 cars out a week, I'm far from lazy

I have experience that armchair mechanics don't

 

[Schurkey]

Torque? Lol. Very very few things get "torqued"

I have experience that armchair mechanics don't

That's what I used to think.

 

[Richard_F]

This discussion went way off track along the way. The question was "Using torque sticks with Cordless electric impacts??" First, understand that these 'torque sticks' work by acting like small torsion bars. The entire stick will rotate with no load or resistance on the driven end. When the driven end meets resistance (the lug tightens) it becomes a relatively fixed end and torsion is exerted along the length of the stick.

When this point is reached, the stick twists somewhat [depending on NOT ONLY the diameter, but the steel alloy] and the impact mechanism resets for another impact. The key to proper operation of the torsion stick is that it have enough time to twist back to a relatively relaxed state between impacts. Electric impact wrenches, cordless or corded deliver about 2700 to 3200 IPM. I have a Sears electric that is rated for 2700. The popular Milwaukee M18 Fuel runs at 3200IPM. This number of impacts per minute is much too fast for the torque stick to relax between impacts.

Compare to an Ingersoll Rand pneumatic wrench which is rated for 1250 impacts per minute. This is typical of pneumatic units. As one can easily notice, this is less than one-half the rate of electric units. Using a torque stick on an electric impact gun is almost like using a plain extension. The stick will likely NOT limit the torque applied because, at high speed, it does not have time to relax and perform its limiting function. The slower rate of impact on pneumatic units allows the torque stick to relax between impacts, therefore working properly.

All this being said, I would still not use a stick for final torque regardless of the type of power tool. You can get close by using the sticks sparingly, then use a proper torque wrench for final tightening.

 

[MShaw]

The last place I worked we built military tracked vehicles. We tried torque sticks and had problems loosening and over tightening. By government direction we did considerable testing with government witnesses. The results were so dismal that the government directed us to stop using torque sticks. That's my experience.