Variance Meetings?

[sixty4]

Anyone have to go through this process to put up a garage? I have hired a Zoning Attorney,Architech with full site survey, and Builder will be there to represent us, but still am not sure what to expect? If one neighbor objects am I sunk? I realize it may be different in some areas, but a basic what to expect type of thing.
Thanks....

 

[Thumper]

If you got decent neighbors you'll be alright, but all it takes is one assshole to show up and make things tuff.

 

[sixty4]

Is, "I do not like it" a valid reason to be denied? I had to put it in the paper and send letters to all the neighbors and have heard nothing? In addition our zoning attorney sent letters as well. I guess its a wait and see game?
What is the actual process in most cases? Do they decide that evening? If it goes bad can one appeal? Not sure how it will turn out, just hoping for the best expecting the worse...(but you never know?

 

[Mike of the North]

I got tuned down because one neighbor sent a letter saying I was going to start a business out of the garage I wanted to build, I never met the neighbor that sent the letter he was kitty corner to the back of the property but because he thought I was going to start a business out of the garage the zoning board turned me down, all the other neighbors showed up and said thy supported me building the garage, one saying no by letter is all the board needed to turn me down. The kicker was the house on the property was grandfathered in to the the taxes when it was build 1945, I was going to tear down the old house and build a new house on the property that could have been taxed at the new rate, so the city lost out on all that tax also, to keep one person happy.

 

[BooUrns!]

Is, "I do not like it" a valid reason to be denied? I had to put it in the paper and send letters to all the neighbors and have heard nothing? In addition our zoning attorney sent letters as well. I guess its a wait and see game?
What is the actual process in most cases? Do they decide that evening? If it goes bad can one appeal? Not sure how it will turn out, just hoping for the best expecting the worse...(but you never know?

No, "I don't like it" is not a valid objection. They would have to come up with an objection that is relevent to how your new property would affect their existing property; i.e. your design is too large or would significantly affect the amount of light reaching my property/ line of sight to public space or your design would not be appropriate to the neighborhood.

I had to apply for a number of variances while trying to get a development permit to replace my mother's house. Her old home, built in 1912, was grandfathered in for the neighbourhood. It burned down two years ago and in order to be able to build a house with the same foundation footprint as the original, I had to apply for variances as newer city overlays restricted the percentage of the lot that could be used for the principal residence (it's a small lot downtown and the house took up 45%, 40% is the normal city maximum).

First the city told me straight up that if my plans did not meet the bylaws, they would be instantly rejected. After I received that rejection, I could go to the development appeal board which actually had the power to issue variances (this is the standard process for variance approval here). I applied for my rejection and then a development officer reviewed my designs and determined what sections of the bylaw needed variances and then I had to go door to door getting signatures. Then the city mailed out notices and objection forms and I had to sit and wait.
This process took almost nine months, it was almost a year from the initial date of filing before I received my building permit.

 

[Sundowner]

my variance to build my garage took 14 months.
It was long, painful, and if I were not a registered engineer, it probably would have cost me closer to $10,000 instead of the $1,400 it did by the time I was done.

No one objected to my plans, but the town engineer was extremely problematic and he created a number of obstacles for me to overcome.

After sitting thought a number of zoning baoard meetings, I can tell you that (at least in my town) one disgrunted neighbor does not a rejection make. Still, go around and fully discuss what you want to do with your neighbors before you send out the registered letters. It helps alot to talk to them first before they get the wrong idea in thier heads and they panic. then there is not changing thier minds, at all.

 

[PAToyota]

What is the variance for? Typically, you have to prove that you have some sort of undue hardship because of the variance - like a diagonal or odd property line that means the setbacks take a disproportionate amount of your property or that due to the slope of your property the way they calculate the maximum height is unfair to your structure. You can't just go in and say "The height limitation is 35' and I want to build it at 40' - so give me the variance."

The reason is that they have the ordinances for a reason. So if they set a precedent of changing them at every whim, then all of the ordinances can be called into question. Some municipalities are more lax than others, but I wouldn't just go in expecting to be handed a variance. As an architect, we typically work with a client on the assumption of doing a project without any variance requests. If there is a situation, we will first talk to the building inspector or codes officer for the municipality to see what he thinks the chances are of receiving a variance. Paying the "pros" to go in to a variance hearing as the first course of action is usually money down the drain.

 

[beanz2]

I second Sundowner. City councils can exercise some judgment on these.

Our house was built a bit too close to the street by City Hall's mistake. We were told during the preliminary planning phase our setback was 25' from the street. After costly architectural and engineering designs, at the final approval phase we were told it should be 35'. The City engineer did not own up to his mistake and insisted the setback must remain at 35'.

Well, we couldn't move the building back by 10' without an extensive redesign as it was built on a slope and it would in turn impact the rear setback, and building height above grade requirements, etc. We applied for a variance and a note on the City Council meeting was sent to all the neighbors.

Two guys objected, one saying our building would cut off his view (the part that would be out of compliance was actually on the other side) and another said it would "ruin the feeling of the neighborhood" (his street corner house is actually on the cheaper side across the street where the front setback is only 25' and his side yard, the side actually facing us, was only 22' from the street.

We argued at the City Council meeting, but finally we were granted the variance. It did cost us 3 months of prime building time, however. Now I am sure who I will not be inviting to our neighborhood barbecues

 

[blkhonda1991]

Anyone have to go through this process to put up a garage? I have hired a Zoning Attorney,Architech with full site survey, and Builder will be there to represent us, but still am not sure what to expect? If one neighbor objects am I sunk? I realize it may be different in some areas, but a basic what to expect type of thing.
Thanks....

Knowing what the variance is will help i knowing what to expect in terms of how hard it will be to get. I have never heard of a zoning attorney and im not quite sure why you would need one. and lastly i dont think you should have the builder at the meeting, you should probably be bringing the architect since im sure they have more knowlege of the codes as well as the general feel of the way the zoning board normally sways if they have been there multiple times. Just make sure you have a very solid argument as to why you should be granted the variance like another poster said, dont just say
"i want to build it this way" or you'll get denied in a heartbeat

 

[blkhonda1991]

I got tuned down because one neighbor sent a letter saying I was going to start a business out of the garage I wanted to build, I never met the neighbor that sent the letter he was kitty corner to the back of the property but because he thought I was going to start a business out of the garage the zoning board turned me down, all the other neighbors showed up and said thy supported me building the garage, one saying no by letter is all the board needed to turn me down. The kicker was the house on the property was grandfathered in to the the taxes when it was build 1945, I was going to tear down the old house and build a new house on the property that could have been taxed at the new rate, so the city lost out on all that tax also, to keep one person happy.

Unfortunatley when it comes to variances all it takes is one thing the board doesnt like to turn you down so you are at the mercy of the board and how they are feeling that day, what kind of variance were you trying to get?

 

[Bill Bowman]

I've been to zoning board meetings where the recommendation was to NOT allow any changes, however, the village trustees only accept it as a "recommendation". They ended up allowing the zoning change. So, in the same light, perhaps a positive recommendation could be shot down by the village/city board of trustees? Good Luck. Bill

 

[Novadiecast]

I have done this and it was very simple. First, take a set of plans with you and visit all the neighbors and let them "understand" your intentions. In other words be a good neighbor. If they like your plan they will most likely not show up and complain. If they like your idea and see it as an improvement to the neighborhood ask them to give you a letter of support for your Zoning change. I did not have one of my neighbors show up at the meeting and had three letters of support. Explain everything and that you are a car guy and tell them it is for YOUR cars. No business etc. Mine was approved unanimously. Then, I had to go and have it recorded on the deed. So it is good forever. I can get a building permit anytime I want now and have no complaints from existing or new neighbors. My zoning change was for height. I was only allowed 15ft. and my plans are 27ft tall.

 

[sixty4]

Thanks Guys! Heres the deal. We purchased the house in Dec. Before I even purchased or put a deposit down, I went down to the town hall to enquire about this with the old owners plot plan. The zoning officer looked at it and said no problem (cool),purchased the house. I then went to my surveyor to do an updated site plan complete with wetland flaggings (no wetland flags were found anywhere near where the new garage will be) and here we need to show a reserve. Ok that went well, Because it was a garage and would never be able to use that area as reserve the health dept signed off on this (no perk tests needed). My Best friend who is a builder stopped in to show them what we were proposing (again no problem from zoning). He then put me in touch with his architect. So after spending alot of time on this it was time to submitt. The day my Architict went down to file we found out that there was a 15' ridge hieght for garages (some sort of new rule, surprise)? Soooo off to variance land we go. Now the pisser is I can build this as big and as long as i want as long as i do not go above this 15' ridge hieght and am within the setbacks. Now my house is 36' to the existing ridge. Now, I am looking for a 24' ridge hieght as not to have a moble home garage next to my house. I am not even having a second floor. We had the architect do a rendering of the 15' and the 24' hieght. Guess what one looked better.... Well wish me luck! The meeting is the begining of Oct, so i have some time to get to meet the nieghbors. Not trying to fling one by them but 15' thats nutz? I call it a shed not a garage with that hieght.
Sorry for War & Peace....
Sixty4...

 

[jay50]

You need some cash (bribe money) readily available for neighbors and city officials who might not be in favor of your variance....

 

[PAToyota]

Any chance of a connecting breezeway between the two structures? Often, if the structures are connected then the garage can be up to the same height as the main structure. See Rowdy Rat's build for an example and his discussion on the zoning.

Something like this all depends on your municipality. In my town they wouldn't allow it because it would set a precedent and if they didn't mean to have the 15' max height they would have changed the zoning ordinance.

 

[sixty4]

I ran this up the flag pole with them as well. The issue there would be they only allow a 5' breezeway to the garage. That would totally block me from getting to my back yard. I have a 2 plus acre lot. with a very narrow back yard, but enough with the plan I have now to make this happen. I am just going to have to wait for Oct and see what will happen?

Someone posted here, that a nieghbor complained that they were shot down do to a possible buisness could be run from a garage? In my case I do not plan on doing this (only my Corvettes). Also don't you need to be caught speeding before you get a ticket? My point being how can they tell you that we deny you a variance based on something you may or may not ever do?


If anyone has any suggestions on what questions neighbors could raise and solutions I would appreciate it! I realize its hard to get into everyone head. The letters have been sent out last week and it has gone in the local paper. We have not heard a word except for one neighbor who said he was jealous and wished he could have the same garage we are proposing. He is a car guy so don't think this will be an issue? Along with the letters we sent a small copy of what the garage will look like, for neighbors reviews.

Thanks all!
Sixty4....

 

[Mike of the North]

Unfortunatley when it comes to variances all it takes is one thing the board doesnt like to turn you down so you are at the mercy of the board and how they are feeling that day, what kind of variance were you trying to get?

I wanted to build a garage that was over 50% of the floor space of the house, we ended up moving to two acres and I built my garage, unfortunately we still have the old house because the housing market tanked here, if it wasn't for the people we have renting we would be hurting.

 

[sixty4]

If you got decent neighbors you'll be alright, but all it takes is one assshole to show up and make things tuff.

Update! We had our Zoning meeting and 1 meatball tried to submarine us. The board saw right through this person and his wife. They said there concerns and were out the door like a shot! I have learned a valuable lesson, if in the future if you need to do this, be as cool as you can! Be flexible with what others are upset about and try to address these issues at that time and be sincere. The couple that gave us the hard time had even said they never recieved any notification on this. Now it was in the local paper and myself and attorney set letters out with a mention if anyone has concerns to call us or stop in. In my state notice must be given in a certified letter. The board when voting made a mention of how well we had addressed the nieghbors concerns and voted in our favor 5-0 . They basically lost any face with the board because they out right lied!
I should not worry about the neighbors feelings but I do have to live in the area that they do. Suggestions on this, or screw em?
Thanks all!!!!!!

 

[jay50]

Update! We had our Zoning meeting and 1 meatball tried to submarine us. The board saw right through this person and his wife. They said there concerns and were out the door like a shot! I have learned a valuable lesson, if in the future if you need to do this, be as cool as you can! Be flexible with what others are upset about and try to address these issues at that time and be sincere. The couple that gave us the hard time had even said they never recieved any notification on this. Now it was in the local paper and myself and attorney set letters out with a mention if anyone has concerns to call us or stop in. In my state notice must be given in a certified letter. The board when voting made a mention of how well we had addressed the nieghbors concerns and voted in our favor 5-0 . They basically lost any face with the board because they out right lied!
I should not worry about the neighbors feelings but I do have to live in the area that they do. Suggestions on this, or screw em?
Thanks all!!!!!!

Glad to hear you got the variance. The a-holes who tried to de-rail your plans need to get a life and turn off the Oprehy show. Screw them and the horse they rode into the meeting on...

 

[BooUrns!]

I wouldn't be concerned about them except during the construction process. Make sure your jobsite is kept tidy and your materials are kept on your property. If they were being difficult about you getting development approval, they could also try to make life difficult through complaints while you work.

Their problem with your development should not concern you. They will get used to it over time. Good luck and enjoy your project!

 

[sixty4]

Needed a hieght Variance. My town will only allow 15'. My house is 36' tall so if I were to make it 15' it would look like a mobile home. It was pasted unanimously, from both planning and zoning. It was brought up to attach to my existing house but I pointed out due to the lenghth of my house the new proposed garage would look like a hotel. I had the builder at the meeting and glad I did. One member asked about construction and was able to give a calm and very accurate answer to address this question. I also went in asking for much more incase there was wiggle room and got exactly what I wanted. It almost seems that they look to find one thing to shoot you down and want you to have a fast and ready answer. After my case was heard another attorney talked to me in the hallway and said "You have a real set of dicks for neighbors". I had to laugh as I had mentioned earlier they lied about not recieving notices (but knew how to show up at the meeting. They just did not want to see this garage at all, and were really upset (this is what really hurt them i feel)! Happy it is all over (or perhaps just starting). Now is there anyway to mend fences? I have not seen them outside and do not want to come across like a sore winner or ram it up there *** but we are neighbors as much as he gave me a rough time?
Thanks!

 

[toxicz28]

Now is there anyway to mend fences?

Build it taller, put a moat with alligators and razor ribbon around the fence.

In other words, screw 'em.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Build it taller, put a moat with alligators and razor ribbon around the fence.

In other words, screw 'em.

Agreed. When I lived in an apt, the bf of the chick below would ride his motorcycle all the way up the sidewalk, and then park it blocking half my door off. I repeatedly asked him not to do it, and he just got pissed and did nothing. I was on the second floor, so I would dangle a rope off the balcony, hook his handlebars and knock it on the concrete every time. After a few times of that, I called the fire department and reported that it was blocking the fire lane. It was promptly drug onto a rollback and hauled off.

I had a neighbor report me for noise (rather than walking over and saying something) at 9 pm for running a hand grinder outside while trying to get my only vehicle drivable so I could get to work the next day. They reported me because they could hear my air compressor run with my garage completely closed up if they stood by their fence.

I noticed they built a shed...bigger than the legal size, AND put it on a pad making it permanent. I was planning on building one, so I knew the regulations. I called them in. They had to tear out the shed and the concrete pad. I then noticed them carrying lots of sheetrock into the house...they were finishing a basement without a permit. They got fined for that. Their dog barked non stop. They got fined for that. He washed his motorcycle in the lawn, and I reported it. Fined for that. I took pictures of him throwing branches from his yard into my property. He got a ticket for that. On the fourth, I saw underage kids drinking beer there, reported him for that.

They moved out rather quickly for some reason

The new neighbors leave me alone, and I leave them alone. If I get their mail in my box, I walk over and hand it to them. If UPS delivers a package to the back door instead of the front and I don't see it, the lady lets me know it's sitting back there.

The other neighbors dog barks, but he also puts his security lights on at night that help illuminate my yard. His grandkids make noise when they're there, I make noise during the day. Neither of us care.

A company owned park/lake is on one side of my property. They have loud gatherings. I don't report them. I make noise and sometimes end up with **** sitting on my property for a bit. I also weld something for their grounds crew if they need it. They had a tent pole for a huge tent collapse on the fourth. I walked over and told them to bring it to the garage. I braced it with some scrap metal I had laying around (ugly, but it worked), and they had their tent back up for the day. I got free beer and hamburgers for helping. there's a strip of grass common to both of us, if they mow first, they get it, if I mow first, I get it. They leave me alone, I leave them alone.

Funny how that stuff works.

 

[sixty4]

Thanks all! The progress pics will be put up as shes built!
Sixty4.....

 

[BigChevy80]

I'm the same way you are Nissan Crawler. We live in a subdivision with a homeowners association, so it's real easy to get some of these uptight pricks complaining about pointless stuff.

I have an old '77 Chevy 4x4 pickup that has body panels that are 3 different colors and is rusty/ugly as can be. Normally it stays down at our storage lot, but after leaving it parked in my driveway for a few nights when I was driving it to work, I got a couple complaints from the neighbors and the board tried telling me that I couldn't park my own truck in my own driveway! They were going to try forcing me to park it in the garage. After pushing the issue a little I basically threatened to sue the association. If I have to park my truck in the garage then that means EVERYONE has to. They only dropped the issue after I offered proof that it was my daily driver and wasn't just sitting there idle.

We also have an old lady next door who would throw table scraps over our fence and feed our dogs. The dogs would then get the squirts and **** all over the garage floor at night. I repeatedly told her to quit and even went so far as to threaten to leave the dog do-do on her deck next time she did it.

Well one day she woke up to 5 piles of dog diarrhea on her deck and called the cops. I explained what happened and the cop just laughed. He told me he'd probably have done the same thing if it was him. Needless to say she hasn't fed the dogs anymore...

I get along great with the rest of my neighbors... what a concept.

 

[ddawg16]

Hey Nissan....

They leave me alone, I leave them alone.

Not quite accurate....sounds like you help each other more than you realize....but it's good.

I guess I have it really good....when we were looking at the house the first time, 2 of the 3 neighbors introduced themselves.....before we moved in we were already friends with all 3 neighbors.....

If I'm out of town, my neighbor on the west takes my garbage out. When I'm home, I take out my neighbor's trash on the east side. The neighbor behind me....has cart blanc to jump the wall and help himself to any tool or supplies he needs...and likewise for me....but neither of use would ever do it unless the other is home....we share parts and tools all the time....

I ran my garage plans past all 3 neighbors. Only the back one complained about anything....but it was a simple thing that was not an issue for me....

Basically, it's about communication and mutual respect. I love my neighbors....we all look out for each other....and it's pretty much the same for the other people on down the street.

Life is good....

 

[john56h]

Here in New York, Zoning variances are "supposed to be" considered by the Zoning Board of Appeals with a "balancing" process. The idea is that the variance requested has to have a benefit for the applicant that balances with the sacrifice of the community. If the ZBA determines that the benefits outweight the detriments, it is usually approved.

Public comment is considered in the decisions, but negative comments by the neighbors are not necessarily going to kill the approval. If the complaints of residents are valid, the ZBA takes them into consideration...if not, they are largely ignored. The length of the process in the municipality where I work is about three months. First a building permit is applied for and "denied" on the basis of violation of certain Zoning Codes, then an application for a Zoning variance is submitted. The applicant is placed on a monthly meeting agenda and at the first meeting the Board usually just hears the applicant make a general description of the proposed project and the variance needed, then the Board schedules a "public hearing" for the next month's meeting. The applicant must post a sign at the site and send out mailings informing the public of the hearing date. The Board also runs an advertisement in the local newspaper. At the second meeting, the public has a chance to comment on the project. After they've all spoken, the Board will sometimes vote that night to approve or dissapprove....but often they will want to table the vote until the following month so that they'll have time to look into whatever concerns that the public brought up during the public hearing comments. Then the Board votes on the proposal at the third meeting.

If the ZBA denies the variance, an appeal of their decision can be made. I am not familiar with that process, but I believe it involves the court system here in New York.