Below 265 SQ/FT Vertigo Cycles Frame Shop Fix Up

[Vertigo Cycles]

The leather corners I made using the chromed one as a mold weren't as good as they could be so I spent about 30min on the mill last night making a new mold

The head and cab shells have a 1/2 radius roundover on them so I used a 1" ball endmill to make the pocket. It's seen a lot of use making bending dies and an inside corner at 1.25" total depth has a significant amount of edge engagement so there's a bit of chatter but it doesn't matter for this purpose. I milled the flat at the bottom with a 0.100" stepover with the ball endmill in place because when you switch to a standard bit, it's very easy to see when you've reached your proper cutting depth

IMG_1141 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

The remolded corners came out much better

IMG_1142 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr


What color tacks should I used to hold these on? Black or Silver?

 

[gearhead1960]

Silver tacks. Would give it some needed contrast. Black will get lost, unless that is what you want....

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

The screw nails from McMaster showed up today and I pulled a measurement from it to make a leather punch so I don't bork up those leather corners I made last week by trying to drill through them.

9ACD09E0-7C81-4DD0-8747-975901CD7068_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

I know I have some 1/8" tubing around here in stainless, titanium and aluminum, but I can't seem to find it. The plan was just to lop off a few inches, sharpen the tip a bit and use it as a punch, even if it's a tad bigger than I need. Instead, I pulled some 1/2" drill rod out and took a few minutes to make one in the exact size I wanted.

A little spot with an 1/8" center drill. I'm holding a crappy drill chuck in my nice drill chuck because the nice one won't hold the next drill bit, an 0.092" bit.

979A5579-436D-4309-87FE-7F8CC53F4BC7_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

About half an inch deep. Don't want to press my luck with this old un-coated bit in drill rod.

BAC3A199-BC56-4383-8BFB-561BEB00158D_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr



46B40F92-1EA6-419B-818E-7E13CA79AEAE_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

Done in two passes. Down to 0.110"

C066C912-6114-431B-8DB3-CAD05BE07D41_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

Part it off. I can't hold the camera, keep steady pressure AND lube it at the same time, so it's only dry in the shot.

AB480D72-FB50-4D82-8D49-62928319CED2_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

The tool

A453F600-181B-47B8-9429-A6A61CA540C7_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

A quick test on an old glove.

9020C404-91C1-4EDB-A076-A4409EA22B9A_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

Later on I'll machine a little indexing block for punching the corners in exactly the right spot on all of them.

 

[bdking]

Damn man, that’s great!

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

I couldn't leave the punch as it was since I'd have to dig out every leather dot and I have 96 of them to punch out. It took about 20 min to add the spring ejector to the punch and it would take much longer than that to deal with all the dots otherwise.

E13396E7-FC8A-4717-96ED-976B402C540D by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

EC150E2E-9606-49F2-9D74-258C1E4F4BF6 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

8B6D5E20-4122-48C0-B094-1FD7C55C9393_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

My wife is at work, my kids are doing school and I couldn't get to the hardware store to try to find a spring or to buy a proper set screw, so I used what I had on hand...an end of a ti welding rod and the dropped head of a 3/8 x 16 bolt that I used to make the hammer last week. It's not pretty, but it works.

 

[E12-535iTurbo]

Perhaps a center point on the inner driver to increase punch accuracy would make it even better?

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

Perhaps a center point on the inner driver to increase punch accuracy would make it even better?

That's a fine idea, but I took finding the hole location out of the equation by building a little locating fixture.

03536831-5A5F-4CD0-B324-4343FB764CAC_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

I was trying to get away with something and knew it. I should have hardened the tool but thought that it would hold up better than it did. I had to pull it out a few times to make it roundish again and then I set the table height so the tip would just barely make contact with the base of the locating tool and it faired much better.

28A741DA-D0E6-472F-80A2-0A71E188C91F_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr


9A7A31C7-1510-47F5-8985-25B90AD87405_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

 

[Arclitgold]

Seriously nice work


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[jonshonda]

I like the side projects you've got going on! Neat to see how in depth some people get get into really small details.

I have been shopping around for a new fat bike frame and was wondering if you offered a GJ discount!!?? haha

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

I like the side projects you've got going on! Neat to see how in depth some people get get into really small details.

I have been shopping around for a new fat bike frame and was wondering if you offered a GJ discount!!?? haha

There are two ways to get a discount Vertigo frame.

You get one for free when you buy a $3500 t-shirt

or

You can buy my personal bike which I haven't listed anywhere yet.

unnamed (1) by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

Photo by the incredibly talented Sakurama

 

[jonshonda]

There are two ways to get a discount Vertigo frame.

You get one for free when you buy a $3500 t-shirt

or

You can buy my personal bike which I haven't listed anywhere yet.

unnamed (1) by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

Photo by the incredibly talented Sakurama

The shirt does sound interesting, and it would be a christmas miracle if your frame geo was anywhere near what I need! That is a great looking build though!

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

The shirt does sound interesting, and it would be a christmas miracle if your frame geo was anywhere near what I need! That is a great looking build though!

Now you've piqued my curiosity. What kind of crazy geometry do you need?

The t-shirts ARE very nice!

 

[jonshonda]

Now you've piqued my curiosity. What kind of crazy geometry do you need?

The t-shirts ARE very nice!

I think that type of conversation is best suited to PM's.

 

[wasfast]

Really enjoy the detail, both craftsmanship and documentation, in your thread and especially the guitar & amp work.

I built neck-through body 5 & 6 string basses for some years and did a side project of a Les Paul for the fun of doing a carved top and sunburst. A couple pictures attached.

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

Really enjoy the detail, both craftsmanship and documentation, in your thread and especially the guitar & amp work.

I built neck-through body 5 & 6 string basses for some years and did a side project of a Les Paul for the fun of doing a carved top and sunburst. A couple pictures attached.

Thanks and nice job on the Les Paul. I like the slight recess for the knobs, like on a PRS. How do you like playing the LP with shared controls?

I've got a Tele for a friend, a roasted swamp ash strat, a jazz bass and two Les Pauls all in the beginning stages at the moment. Body outlines and control pockets are cut on the Fender copies, body outlines and necks are roughed out on the LPs but I'm stuck until I can make time to resaw some stock. I've got a couple of really nice quilted maple billets and a slab of bolivian rosewood that'll make about a dozen fingerboards if it doesn't twist too much. I need to finish an amp and make my wife some built-in shelves that I promised her before I can pay attention to guitars again.

I was able to spend some time over the past few nights and have made a lot of progress on the big amp. I finished wiring the power supply board, the bias board, the pedal 12V transformer and power supply, I ran the heaters, wired the power and output transformers, the driver board, reverb board, FET, its relay and a push/pull pot to replace a trim pot and to make the FET switchable without a foot switch. It doesn't look like much from the photos, but it's A LOT of tedious work and a lot of thinking so I don't work myself into a corner.

I missed a connection on the reverb transformer last night and spent half an hour trying to maneuver the board to get underneath it to make the missed connection. This amp wasn't meant to have a switched FET and it's not like there's a ton of room for the 12V transformer, power supply board and relay board so I had to get creative about how to reposition things and hope that I'm not introducing unwanted noise.

889810EA-8B11-4454-BA80-BEA0539B66CC_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

3215EA9F-3138-4958-A596-BB035B3A6517_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

164913B5-4A5B-477D-B0B4-35A56B45C5BB_1_201_a by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

697EFB0E-5AF5-42D3-8AD1-A8A810D9F56F_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

I think I'm done sticking stuff together. I'm going to let it sit for a bit and will put some fresh eyes on it later to check all the wired connections before putting power into it.

5C026FAF-38DA-4529-AED9-2BA7927C50E3_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

 

[wasfast]

The separate volume/tone per pickup isn't very useful for me. I also located the volume in a more optimum place to reach for. I mostly play a super strat (HSS, Floyd) with master volume so this more duplicates that setup.

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

The separate volume/tone per pickup isn't very useful for me. I also located the volume in a more optimum place to reach for. I mostly play a super strat (HSS, Floyd) with master volume so this more duplicates that setup.

I had a LP Custom from around 1980 and it did this thing in the middle position with the neck volume rolled all the way back and it sounded like a sitar. It was so cool. I tend not to get too sentimental about stuff, but I've been kicking myself for selling that guitar for a long time...especially now, it just jumped in value and folks are selling them for ~10K all of a sudden.

 

[Joe-R]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the posts on guitars and amplifiers, very interesting! In one of your posts you mentioned having trouble stripping Teflon wire. I work for Boeing on mostly the F-15. We use a ton of Teflon wire in our labs. You might try a stripper similar to this one:

https://www.zoro.com/ideal-5-12-in-...aw4gPggWolgxVLD5AVKCcPP04dJJYHdYaAn1hEALw_wcB

The ultimate is could be one of these Hot Weezers (gotta love the name). It strips the wire with no possibility of nicking it. Here it is:

https://meiseitools.com/products/hotweezers/

Keep up the good work!
Joe

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the posts on guitars and amplifiers, very interesting! In one of your posts you mentioned having trouble stripping Teflon wire. I work for Boeing on mostly the F-15. We use a ton of Teflon wire in our labs. You might try a stripper similar to this one:

https://www.zoro.com/ideal-5-12-in-...aw4gPggWolgxVLD5AVKCcPP04dJJYHdYaAn1hEALw_wcB

The ultimate is could be one of these Hot Weezers (gotta love the name). It strips the wire with no possibility of nicking it. Here it is:

https://meiseitools.com/products/hotweezers/

Keep up the good work!
Joe

Thanks for the recommendations. I do have a stripper similar to the first one you linked, but the serrated grabber completely trashes the jacket if the jaws don't completely cut through...which they don't without severing some of the stranded wire.

About halfway through the first amp build, I remembered that I bought a simple Klein stripper when I was doing some work to my motorcycle and have been using it since. It does a great job on the standard 18g stranded and it's passable job on the rg188u coax if I'm careful. The shield wires on that cable are so thin that its hard to keep them all intact.

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

I've been sitting on piles of ash, mahogany and maple for a few years now. I don't have room to keep anymore amplifiers but I can hang guitars on the wall so my sanity project for the next few months is to build a four or five guitars between building bikes and doing things to get our house ready for sale.

Before I could make much progress on anything resembling a guitar, I needed a router table. I did all the template work with a handheld router last time and this is supposed to be a relaxing way to keep my sanity, the handheld router stressed me out.

My 8y/o and I pulled the top off of my MFT table and we cut a piece of 3/4" MDF to fit. I had bought an inexpensive Jessem phenolic router plate and was scratching my head a little to sort out how to match the 3/4" radius of the corners. After an inventory of my router bits, I realized that I could use a 1.5" O.D. surfacing bit if I made a template bearing for it, so a few bearings were borrowed from another bit and I turned a delrin sleeve to exactly 1.5" O.D with a 0.748" I.D. so it would be a press fit on the bearings. Being delrin, it's hard enough to get the job done but soft enough that I could remove it from the bearings without too much trouble.

7A1F5FDD-7B8F-4126-9BE8-E025D4151DB5_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

Ellie helped me setup the fence out of some baltic birch off cuts and double stick tape

B1E489FE-BEBD-4235-82A5-8994695E1502_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

then I got to work with my new template bit

D48C13AE-8AB1-4793-A9D5-9B65828AC6D9_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

We cut out the center waste with a jigsaw, flooded the newly exposed surface with thin CA glue (to resist the leveling screws), drilled and tapped for the corner bolts and now I have a router table, currently without a fence

7ACAD003-B033-40D6-836C-65C4ED9647D4_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

I will need a fence for some future furniture projects, but need to sort out the best way to go about insetting some t-track. The Incra track I saw at a local shop is much too tall to work well with only 3/4" thickness. I may add another layer to the top, or perhaps bolster the bottom

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

I was a little shy with the bandsaw when cutting out the body blanks

E8582613-F6CE-44D0-8120-62CE106F910E_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

so I mounted the templates, and robosanded to ~0.010" proud of the line

C0FA3527-6976-4E09-926A-B9CBD5E9B840_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

The Festool 1400 does a pretty great job at capturing most of the dust and chips

D3A57F91-1180-45A5-808D-71294821E606_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

I think it's time to clean my long template bit. One of these is now destined for an opaque color

7AF12570-7652-4D2C-B28E-C9B55E16DD05_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

These will become a couple of Les Pauls. One burst flame top and the other a Silverburst to replace one I sold about 20 years ago. I have yet another that will become a gold top with P90's and I also cut out bodies for a Strat and a Jazz Bass as well as their necks. A new spiral template bit should arrive Friday so I'll cut the rest of those parts to the line then. In the mean time, I need to get working on some floating shelves.

 

[Arclitgold]

In to see some awesome guitar builds!! I’d love to build me a jazz bass. Wanna sell it when you’re all done?


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[Vertigo Cycles]

In to see some awesome guitar builds!! I’d love to build me a jazz bass. Wanna sell it when you’re all done?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe. I don’t have anything that’s too precious to let go for the right price.

Let’s see how it goes though. I try not to take a successful final product for granted. It could come out amazing or it could be a dog’s breakfast. The pieces of maple I got for the JB and Strat are out of this world though. I hope I can live up to my own standards

 

[Arclitgold]

Awesome. Can’t wait to see them come together


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[sakurama]

I hope I can live up to my own standards

You are by far your hardest critic. But your work is amazing - it's fun to watch you learn new things.

Curious, in that world of wood/metal cross can aluminum end mills do the same or better job as wood specific? I don't think of router tools having the same sophistication as say CNC tooling. I'm guessing speed has a lot to do with it.

Gregor

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

You are by far your hardest critic. But your work is amazing - it's fun to watch you learn new things.

Curious, in that world of wood/metal cross can aluminum end mills do the same or better job as wood specific? I don't think of router tools having the same sophistication as say CNC tooling. I'm guessing speed has a lot to do with it.

Gregor

I'm far from being an expert on this, but in my limited experience there's some crossover. I think you're absolutely correct about speed having a lot to do with how well router tooling cuts, as does the condition of the edges on the tool.

I have definitely used my big face mill with carbide inserts to level slabs on the Deckel and it was amazing. I can't recall the exact diameter of the face mill but I think it's 80mm and it was run at a moderate speed. I did manage to blow up some rosewood at a spot where the grain direction took a big turn, but the fact that it was held to the table with double stick tape could have contributed to that little incident. Generally, as long as the cutter direction is moving towards the center of the slab, the experience was excellent.

I've also used my 7-flute 3/4" carbide endmill to hog out material. Again, no problems with that. It has a pretty severe spiral on it and beautifully cut through the endgrain of some 1.75" thick sapele. Super smooth finish and no tearout whatsoever.

I *think* that I'd choose higher flute counts over lower and don't imagine that there would be an advantage to using 2-flute endmills like you'd use on aluminum since the wood shavings don't pack up like aluminum does. Even when machining aluminum anymore, I don't use 2-flute tooling unless I'm going to do it dry. I'll typically keep a bottle of WD40 on the table and will give a light spritz on whatever face is getting machined every other pass. If it's going to be a big cut, I'll squirt the tool also. I tend to keep my shop vac handy too and will keep it on the tool to **** up the chips as they fly off. When side milling, it's leaving very nice finishes and I'm not getting any buildup on the tooling edges.

I also have some Boelube which is a sort of blue wax that liquifies very easily with a little pressure. If I'm hogging off a lot of aluminum, brushing the bit with an acid brush loaded with that wax will get me through a couple of heavy passes with no loading of the flutes.

The only exception would be when face milling aluminum. I learned from my buddy Oscar, that you remove all but one or two of the inserts on the facemill, you get a much nicer finish. When all the cutting edges are brand new, it doesn't seem to matter, but once there's some wear on them, removing four of the six give you a fly-cutter like finish.

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

Speed holes. I used to own a 12lb Les Paul and I don't want another one. Since I have the opportunity to do something about it, why not try? This dropped the mahogany portion from 5lb 11oz down to 4lb 8oz. I'm not yet sure what that means for the final weight, but hopefully not 12lb.

Speed Holes by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

This is "thermally modified" maple. It's supposed to be more resonant, more stable and a little lighter. I'm not 100% certain that it's any of those things, but I figured there's nothing to lose. I'll be using another portion of the slab to make a neck for this particular guitar, similar to the Norlin era Les Pauls. A lot of people complain about that era of Gibson and point to the cost cutting methods that were put into place at the time...like 3-piece maple necks and multi piece tops and backs. The particular guitar I had, which was an '81 Custom, sounded fantastic and that's what I'm trying to recreate here... only lighter...and with different glue.

I don't know what kind of glue Gibson used in that era, but it has some plastic creep and the joints in the neck and body telegraphed through the paint. I assume they used yellow glue and I'll be using mostly hot hide glue, which is a colossal pain to work with, but dries hard, is reversible and doesn't creep. This will ensure that if I'm able to get a great finish on the guitar, it's not going to be interrupted by ever-so-slightly slipping joints over the next 30 years.

D794276A-10CF-419B-9BD0-E93348143D2E_1_105_c by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

The goal is to get the top glued on this weekend and then get started on templates and gauges for carving the top

I also have another bookmatched set of flamed maple for the top of a burst that I'm building concurrently. While the hide glue is hot, I'll join that one too. It's been stickered up for a few weeks after resawing the slab so I'll have to sort out how much it moved and then flatten it again before gluing it up to the other body. I have yet another amazing bookmatched set but it has so far resisted my efforts to get it straight enough to even joint properly. If I have time, I'll try to come up with a plan for that one too.

 

[wasfast]

My own experience with mill VS router for guitars is that generic HSS 2 flutes work better than the straight carbide for wood in either machine. They're cheap and easily replaced when dull like disposable razor blades. Less chipping/tearout on varied direction grain like flame maple.

No shop photos here but some of the neck through body and bolt on basses I built: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1QUO61qqz7xeclyy9N92CXk1XHWlUJrv8?usp=sharing

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

My own experience with mill VS router for guitars is that generic HSS 2 flutes work better than the straight carbide for wood in either machine. They're cheap and easily replaced when dull like disposable razor blades. Less chipping/tearout on varied direction grain like flame maple.

No shop photos here but some of the neck through body and bolt on basses I built: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1QUO61qqz7xeclyy9N92CXk1XHWlUJrv8?usp=sharing

Those are beautiful instruments. What are you using for a finish on them?

 

[wasfast]

Necks got tung oil and briwax. Glossy top coat is 2 stage automotive clear. I finally found a great epoxy filler with high build (from Sheldon Dingwall) which reduced the multiple sprays to just the final clear coat.

 

[Chris John]

This looks good, did you try doing fun stuff like Thor hammer and others and put that into a youtube video... I think that would help to get more exposure...

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

This looks good, did you try doing fun stuff like Thor hammer and others and put that into a youtube video... I think that would help to get more exposure...

I've had some suggestions to do that and I'll have to think about how I could make it work. I'd feel compelled to keep my shop tidy and I just don't feel like that's possible at the moment

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

I managed to get some time to work on some floating shelves that I've been promising my wife I'd build for several years. They're definitely being built without care for order of operations as we're scraping off the popcorn ceilings, need to repaint the walls and are pulling carpet this summer to put in some hardwood floors. Half of them are done anyway and I didn't get too many photos, but there are enough to convey the idea.

Before Gregor kindly allowed me to use his cold saw (for other incomplete projects that have been put on hold due to an Amazon order snafu) I was cutting these 1.5 square tubes to length on the mill.

IMG_1495 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

While I appreciate the cost/performance of steel, I hate working with it and am especially not a fan of the way it machines and leaves tiny slivers everywhere. Luckily we had a week of nice weather in March and I could do all the clean up grinding and sanding outside to keep the mess out of my shop. One thing that I love about steel, and especially about non-bike projects is that I can just crank the heat on the welder and let it rip and as long as I clean off the schmoo from the mill, it'll work out OK.

A couple of holes drilled about an inch from the supports allows me to level the support with screw pressure. There are for on each beam right next to the studs.

IMG_1486 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

IMG_1485 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

This is essentially a torsion box. The 1.5" square tube actually measured 1.506 and I cut the internal plywood supports to 1.509. The shelves are a snug slip fit onto support arms.

IMG_1494 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

knocked up a couple more and this side is done. Three more to go on the right side of the fireplace but I'll save that for when the wall has been painted.

IMG_1511 by Sean Chaney, on Flickr

 

[gearhead1960]

Love the MCM vibe. Nice artwork to the left of the acoustic guitar!

 

[bdking]

I love that you’re working in plywood to thou precision.

Torsion boxes are the best, they’re capable of real structural heroism.

 

[nicholam77]

Looks great! That's going to be a nice little remodel of that room, very cozy.

I've made a few floating shelves, not quite as heavy duty as yours but just on a plywood cleat with L-brackets... also a friction-fit. I've never found the need to screw or pin nail them in place. Makes it so much easier to paint if you can remove them, which it sounds like you'll be doing!

Popcorn ceilings are the worst!

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

I love that you’re working in plywood to thou precision.

Torsion boxes are the best, they’re capable of real structural heroism.

Truth be told, I'm having a hell of a time dealing with the TS-55 so I ripped all the internal pieces a little oversize and then milled them to final width on my milling machine. It's a great way to waste a lot of time, but the fit is oh so nice.

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

Love the MCM vibe. Nice artwork to the left of the acoustic guitar!

Thanks! My wife did that painting a bunch of years ago on an old piece of cardboard. When we first met, we used to go mountain biking a few times a week and discovered a cherry tree on the edge of a field which was a great place to take a break and have a natural snack. She made this as a birthday gift 15 or so years ago, inspired by those times and I love it. I made it into a TV hider maybe ten years ago.

 

[Vertigo Cycles]

Looks great! That's going to be a nice little remodel of that room, very cozy.

I've made a few floating shelves, not quite as heavy duty as yours but just on a plywood cleat with L-brackets... also a friction-fit. I've never found the need to screw or pin nail them in place. Makes it so much easier to paint if you can remove them, which it sounds like you'll be doing!

Popcorn ceilings are the worst!

Popcorn ceilings ARE the worst! If I could undo the work I've done, I'd just leave it.

I had to make these heavy-duty, we call it "Ellie Proofing". My almost 9 y/o can reduce anything to its elements in the blink of an eye and has very little impulse control. A few weeks ago she delightedly showed me how she can climb to the ceiling by stemming between the walls in the hallway. Rather than telling her not to do it, or risk putting her foot through the wall, I just marked out the studs with painters tape. She hasn't climbed the shelves yet, but I think it's only because she'd fall on the dog who sleeps in that corner.