Vise Info Thread

[akasrick]

I'd say that the holes held pipe jaws. They are in the right place. They're hollow jaws, there is a stop for the pipe jaws to bottom against as some of their ratchet bits did.
A thread wouldn't hold up with the clamping pressure.
As Crsinmich demonstrated with their ever changing designations a 766 And A 766V is not a stretch, just another variation.
My take on trying to understand the differences of when and why, along with them using up stock.
That's the long version of I don't know.
Reading all this a pamphlet with just focus on their vises would be quite an undertaking.



akasrick

The jaws look like nothing fancier then a pin in a hole.

another------ edit------- 1949 catalog
akasrick

 

[CRSINMICH]

MILLERS FALLS PIPE VISE
From their 1878 catalog​

This is probably a Backus and/or Union model. Many of the the other vises in that catalog were. Notice that the extra jaw "has corrugated grooves of different sizes" to hold "pipe of any dimensions" and which could be removed "in a moment". The pipe vise came in 4, 5, and 8 inch jaw widths.

 

[CRSINMICH]

MORE 1878 MILLERS FALLS VISES

COACHMAKERS' VISE
FINISHING VISE
HEAVY CHIPPING VISE
and 11 Different sizes of Union and Backus Combined vises from 31/2 lbs. to 169 lbs.

Note that they offered two 7" vises.​

 

[CRSINMICH]

1912 Millers Falls vises
Millers Falls vise
Millers Falls Mechanics vise
Mechanics Vise with swivel base
Railroad vise​

 

[CRSINMICH]

1915 Millers Falls vise
Sadly, the big vises have disappeared. There are a couple oval slide vises and...
the No. 522 Mechanics vise in 3 sizes​

 

[akasrick]

I put together an Excel Spreadsheet with specs, links to pics, as well as a second worksheet that has links for brochures, general ads, news articles and patents.

Vise Info Spreadsheet - Specs & Brochures
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sHFRfY_DFXMz6bFeeYI7UKRpUd3aheAE86KBQRBGb9s/edit?usp=sharing

The vise thread has tons of info on it but getting close to 3000 pages, the Excel is just a means to find things easier. Many links are from the page they appeared on, 99% from GJ. But I have many items saved on my PC or some stuff other GJ members have e-mailed me, I need to post them somewhere to link them, so I will do that on this thread.

If anone has pecs, pics, brochures or anything vise related, you can post those items here. If anyone finds errors in anything posted, please let me know, you can post it on here also.

I will add it or make corrections when time permits. I should have a new upload once or twice a month

GJ member SweetD has scanned a Prentiss catalog to the forum.
This is how Prentiss wrote up some of their pipe jaws.
Kevin now administers the spreadsheet.



akasrick

 

[KMScott]

akasrick, where would this Prentiss scan be located. I’d like to see it.

Thanks Kevin

 

[akasrick]

akasrick, where would this Prentiss scan be located. I’d like to see it.

Thanks Kevin

• Forums
• The Tools
• Vintage Tool Discussion

Vintage Prentiss Vise catalog - I finally scanned it.​

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...iss-vise-catalog-i-finally-scanned-it.528286/​

Not a problem Kevin

akasrick

 

[AntiqueBen]

I ran across a huge 6" vise at an antique store. Outside of being splattered with different colors of paint, its in good shape & operates properly. I've always wanted a really big vise like this, but it appears to be unmarked. I guess it's possible something might be under all the paint. Any ideas on what brand this vise might be??

 

[AntiqueBen]

I ran across a huge 6" vise at an antique store. Outside of being splattered with different colors of paint, its in good shape & operates properly. I've always wanted a really big vise like this, but it appears to be unmarked. I guess it's possible something might be under all the paint. Any ideas on what brand this vise might be??

Anyone agree this could be a Hollands vise?

 

[Outlawmws]

it appears to be unmarked.

Pics of both sides and close ups of the Jaws?

That is a swivel jaw too! Bonus! Get that mounted on a real stand - that stand is asking for it to get pulled over and Its probably in excess of 150 lbs...

 

[AntiqueBen]

Pics of both sides and close ups of the Jaws?

That is a swivel jaw too! Bonus! Get that mounted on a real stand - that stand is asking for it to get pulled over and Its probably in excess of 150 lbs...

I haven't purchased it yet so these are the only pics I have. The jaws are worn smooth on the inside but it has no cracks. Swivel jaw? Also, another amateur question...what is the round steel peg on the body behind the jaws?

 

[Outlawmws]

Swivel jaw? Also, another amateur question...what is the round steel peg on the body behind the jaws?

Exactly for the Swivel jaw you pull the pin (almost all are a tapered pins) and the fixed jaw will swivel to allow holding a part that does not have parallel sides.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Exactly for the Swivel jaw you pull the pin (almost all are a tapered pins) and the fixed jaw will swivel to allow holding a part that does not have parallel sides.

Gotcha. I don't see these huge vise's to often. I might pull the trigger on this one. It's a beast. It looks like a Holland vise design based on pics of other Holland vises.

 

[CRSINMICH]

PRENTISS catalog #53 ca. 1920
​

This is the same catalog that was scanned by member SweetD which akasrick linked to in post #3728 of this thread. The pages have been separated and the images were enhanced.

 

[Redbull42]

Charles Parker 482-1/2. I will add spec:s when I get them.

Have you ever made jaws for one of these? I have an opportunity to get one and the dynamic jaw is partially missing. Thanks!

 

[KMScott]

Have you ever made jaws for one of these? I have an opportunity to get one and the dynamic jaw is partially missing. Thanks!

Red Bull Yes years back. They are a little shorter in height compared to the machinist Parker vises. Same method used To make them.

I used to build Parker jaws to promote my jaw websites. How could I charge shop rate for making these jaws since we know how cheap vise collectors are. 10 hours labor to build a set and mostly in setups. 1st pic is a combo Parker and the second one is one I finished and sold on eBay.

Good luck on your new vise. I have a blog written about building these Parker jaws that you can see below.

https://wiltonviseparts.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/building-the-chas-parker-jaws-2/

 

[KMScott]

PRENTISS catalog #53 ca. 1920
​

This is the same catalog that was scanned by member SweetD which akasrick linked to in post #3728 of this thread. The pages have been separated and the images were enhanced.

Thanks for the Prentiss pdf CRS, SweetD and akasrick. Was able to update several empty cells.

Would love to see one of these swivel attachments for the stationary vises. Also check out the clamp on pipe jaws. If they are found then I’ll add them to the spreadsheet.

 

[ranger08]

very early columbian 503 with rectangular shaped jaw plates, appears to have all original paint, front jaw plate is home made
Has "H" in a circle stamped on the static casting? does not appear to be an "M" for malleable iron however I do note the towers are hollow, may actually be an "M"
Nut is stamped 502 1/2
stamped "Patent appl. For"

 

[AntiqueBen]

I just got this beast into the garage. I'll have to heat up the pin to loosen up the swivel jaw. Once I get it off I'll look for any markings. I know Prentiss puts a PVC under there sometimes. I did find a stamped "3" on the bottom of the slide near the front. Still trying to figure out the maker on this one. Anyone have any ideas on the 3??

 

[CRSINMICH]

KMS: You're welcome. Hey, wouldn't it be great if some talented machinist fabbed that swivel base and/or pipe jaws? Just sayin'...

 

[454ragtop]

I just got this beast into the garage. I'll have to heat up the pin to loosen up the swivel jaw. Once I get it off I'll look for any markings. I know Prentiss puts a PVC under there sometimes. I did find a stamped "3" on the bottom of the slide near the front. Still trying to figure out the maker on this one. Anyone have any ideas on the 3??

I suspect that vise is a Prentiss, seems a lot of them are unmarked. The "3" is likely a stamp to keep the parts of the vise together as they were fitted to each other during the manufacturing processes. Parts interchangeability wasn't always spot on back then.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I suspect that vise is a Prentiss, seems a lot of them are unmarked. The "3" is likely a stamp to keep the parts of the vise together as they were fitted to each other during the manufacturing processes. Parts interchangeability wasn't always spot on back then.

That makes total sense. I have several other vises but a Prentiss is new to me. I really like this one. Built well. Any idea what era this is from?

 

[AntiqueBen]

Thought I would share a neat story. The guy I bought this vise from said it was his grandfather's vise. He worked for the railroad in Cincinnati. The story goes there were 4 vise's in the yard were he worked. After a second one broke, the railroad decided to replaced all four of them. This is one of the two that was still in good working shape & they let him bring it home. I never expected to hear such a cool story. He was glad to know I was going to clean it up & use it in my shop. Just makes me wander how they broke the other two? Those vise's must get a heavy duty workout at the railroad

 

[PierceA]

AntiqueBen: there are several threads on freeing up a stuck swivel jaw locating pin. And of course freeing up the swivel jaw.

I'll mention a few cautions: The tapered locating pin can be stuck in the fixed base, or in the swivel jaw, or in both.
There are several methods to push the pin out of the static and swivel jaw. Remove the dynamic jaw and use two bolts and a threaded coupler to make a jack-screw. Using the jack-screw to push against the stuck pin from the inside or bottom of the pin.
This can be dangerous: IF the pin is stuck in the swivel jaw, the jack screw will be pushing up on the rear of the swivel jaw, which is designed to take a lot of force and pressure from the opposite direction. So pushing too hard on the tapered pin CAN break the swivel jaw.
My suggestion is if you use a jack-screw, use it carefully, add some push-force, soak in penetrating oil. Heat around the pin, and use a piece of pipe that will fit over the pin, and hammer on the pipe. The circular impact around the pin will often get the tapered pin to break free.

Once you get the pin out, Many people try to get the jaw to swivel by hammering on the rear of the jaw. This often leaves hammering scars and deforms the edges of the jaw.
What I do is to clamp a piece of aluminum in the jaws off center, near to the outside edge of the jaw. This will exert a force to make the jaw swivel. Clamp down on the hunk of aluminum, and then use a block of wood to protect the rear of the swivel jaw, and smack the wood to drive the rear of the jaw sideways. Swap the position of the hunk of aluminum to the other side, and repeat the hammering on a hunk of wood. Once you get a slight amount of movement, soak again with penetrating oil and it will free up quickly.

Oh: the best penetrating oil is a 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone/laquer thinner.

I too think your vise is a Prentiss.

PierceA

 

[RTM]

IF the pin is stuck in the swivel jaw, the jack screw will be pushing up on the rear of the swivel jaw, which is designed to take a lot of force and pressure from the opposite direction. So pushing too hard on the tapered pin CAN break the swivel jaw.

Would doing something to hold the swivel jaw down when using the jackscrew help? Bar across the jaw, held to the bench with two c clamps?

 

[AntiqueBen]

AntiqueBen: there are several threads on freeing up a stuck swivel jaw locating pin. And of course freeing up the swivel jaw.

I'll mention a few cautions: The tapered locating pin can be stuck in the fixed base, or in the swivel jaw, or in both.
There are several methods to push the pin out of the static and swivel jaw. Remove the dynamic jaw and use two bolts and a threaded coupler to make a jack-screw. Using the jack-screw to push against the stuck pin from the inside or bottom of the pin.
This can be dangerous: IF the pin is stuck in the swivel jaw, the jack screw will be pushing up on the rear of the swivel jaw, which is designed to take a lot of force and pressure from the opposite direction. So pushing too hard on the tapered pin CAN break the swivel jaw.
My suggestion is if you use a jack-screw, use it carefully, add some push-force, soak in penetrating oil. Heat around the pin, and use a piece of pipe that will fit over the pin, and hammer on the pipe. The circular impact around the pin will often get the tapered pin to break free.

Once you get the pin out, Many people try to get the jaw to swivel by hammering on the rear of the jaw. This often leaves hammering scars and deforms the edges of the jaw.
What I do is to clamp a piece of aluminum in the jaws off center, near to the outside edge of the jaw. This will exert a force to make the jaw swivel. Clamp down on the hunk of aluminum, and then use a block of wood to protect the rear of the swivel jaw, and smack the wood to drive the rear of the jaw sideways. Swap the position of the hunk of aluminum to the other side, and repeat the hammering on a hunk of wood. Once you get a slight amount of movement, soak again with penetrating oil and it will free up quickly.

Oh: the best penetrating oil is a 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone/laquer thinner.

I too think your vise is a Prentiss.

PierceA

Thanks for the tips (from everyone). This one will definitely be a challenge. I don't think the swivel jaw was used to much. To the untrained eye, the pin doesn't even look like it's removable. Heat will definitely help the situation. I'm tempted to just leave it alone, only because the odds of me needing to actually use this function of the vise is slim to none. I'm only tempted to do it to see if the Prentiss "PVC" is under there. I'd hate to cause a problem just to see if the stamp is there

 

[AntiqueBen]

I have a question for you guys. I noticed pics online of Prentiss Vise jaws. The ones I've seen are "U" shaped jaws. The jaws on my vise are not "U" shaped. They are just square & sit on a lip or ledge. I also don't see any screws or how they are attached to the vise. Even if the screw holes were worn down over time you'd think you could see some kind of markings of were they once were. The jaws are perfectly smooth on the inside? Could this type of jaw be an indicator of age? I believe this to be a Prentiss No. 5. Any ideas about these jaws or age of vise?? Pics below of my jaws & other U shaped jaws I seen online. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Outlawmws]

Would doing something to hold the swivel jaw down when using the jackscrew help? Bar across the jaw, held to the bench with two c clamps?

That has been done before quite successfully.

 

[Outlawmws]

I also don't see any screws or how they are attached to the vise.

Cast in mold, I don't think they still know how to do that properly. A lost art...

 

[AntiqueBen]

Cast in mold, I don't think they still know how to do that properly. A lost art...

Is the cast in mold jaws an older design?

 

[Outlawmws]

Is the cast in mold jaws an older design?

probably a cheaper design as there is less machining to prep for the jaws. Many companies did both, but they oftan had "economy lines" and premium... Replaceble jaws was an up-sell point

 

[AntiqueBen]

probably a cheaper design as there is less machining to prep for the jaws. Many companies did both, but they oftan had "economy lines" and premium... Replaceble jaws was an up-sell point

I read somewhere on another thread that Prentiss started to offer replaceable jaws in 1911. Could my vise be pre-1911 from the era before replaceable jaws?
Edit:
I found where I read this.

Prentiss 21 jaw/ Handle related

Hello everyone I have a question relating to my prentiss 21. I just picked this up couple days ago and I’m starting to fix it. so that I can bring it back to service and use it on the ranch. I would like to replace vise jaws If possible if they are replaceable. The face of the jaws are so used...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Outlawmws]

One of the Prentiss experts or collectors will be able to give you a better idea on the era that particular vise was made. One feature is generally not enough.

 

[neophyte]

I have a question for you guys. I noticed pics online of Prentiss Vise jaws. The ones I've seen are "U" shaped jaws. The jaws on my vise are not "U" shaped. They are just square & sit on a lip or ledge. I also don't see any screws or how they are attached to the vise. Even if the screw holes were worn down over time you'd think you could see some kind of markings of were they once were. The jaws are perfectly smooth on the inside? Could this type of jaw be an indicator of age? I believe this to be a Prentiss No. 5. Any ideas about these jaws or age of vise?? Pics below of my jaws & other U shaped jaws I seen online. Any help is appreciated.

Some older vise manufacturers used to have the vise jaws serrated by hand, if you are wondering about smooth vs serrated jaws.
The serrating was done with a chisel that would be hammered directly into the vise jaws first at one angle, and then at a cross angle.
These serrations tend to wear down over time.
Other vises had smooth jaws, but that seems mire common in Coachmaker, and filing vises.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Some older vise manufacturers used to have the vise jaws serrated by hand, if you are wondering about smooth vs serrated jaws.
The serrating was done with a chisel that would be hammered directly into the vise jaws first at one angle, and then at a cross angle.
These serrations tend to wear down over time.
Other vises had smooth jaws, but that seems mire common in Coachmaker, and filing vises.

I would assume once Prentiss patented the removable jaws in 1911 they wouldn't have continued to offer non removable jaws for obvious reasons. That's why I was wandering if this was a clue my vise could be pre 1911.

 

[neophyte]

I would assume once Prentiss patented the removable jaws in 1911 they wouldn't have continued to offer non removable jaws for obvious reasons. That's why I was wandering if this was a clue my vise could be pre 1911.

I wouldn’t trust this logic.
Plenty of manufacturers will keep older designs in production long after a newer “better” design enters production, and this was likely way more common back before the IRS and tax rules made it advantageous to scrap older production lines for a tax write off.
Cast in jaws might have been preferable to dome customers, and would have required a certain amount of technical skill from foundry employees that a manufacturer would want to keep around.

 

[AntiqueBen]

I wouldn’t trust this logic.
Plenty of manufacturers will keep older designs in production long after a newer “better” design enters production, and this was likely way more common back before the IRS and tax rules made it advantageous to scrap older production lines for a tax write off.
Cast in jaws might have been preferable to dome customers, and would have required a certain amount of technical skill from foundry employees that a manufacturer would want to keep around.

That is true. I've never dove into the historical aspect of vises before. It will be interesting to research more into Prentiss & their history.

 

[AntiqueBen]

While doing some research online about Prentiss, I found some interesting info. The early unmarked Prentiss vise's had only the model number stamped on the body, usually underneath somewhere. I found a guy online that is a Prentiss pro that has a Prentiss no. 3 from 1885. His is stamped with the number 3 in the exact spot as mine. After close inspection of my vise, there are no other number 3's stamped on any other parts, so the 3 is not likely to keep the parts together during the initial forging process at the factory. That led me to find a catalog by L.M. Rumsey dated 1885 with the available Prentiss vise's during that time. Looks like there were only 4 Prentiss vise's available then. The stationary no. 3 vise is there with the exact specs as my no. 3. I also realized my vise seems to be cast iron. I'm not supposing this information to be definite, but I think I'm getting somewhere as I go down the "Prentiss rabbit hole." Pics of the catalog below.

 

[Outlawmws]

You seem to be on the right track!