Vise Info Thread

[MattGavriloff]

A few more pics of my Mystery Vise, and I'll post the specs this afternoon once I bring a scale out to the garage.

The swivel pin may or may not be original...I cannot tell. It's a good fit, but maybe a little crudely finished? It DID however come out without fuss, from a blind hole no less!?! I was pleasantly suprised. The swivel jaw itself is much more stuck...lol...but I've delt with that before so no worries. The base lock down knob/screw is stuck as well, so the whole body may soak in some ATF/Acetone.

Some pictures of the strange "half length" nut. I can't pull the base yet to pop the pin and remove the nut but it doesn't LOOK like damage/repair to me. I could of course be wrong.

And a close up of the one small chip in the threads. I couldn't feel this, or any issue with the nut, when operating the vise, so neither bother me from a usage standpoint. It's never going to go on the bench to be hammered on or anything...lol

Oh and the threads are definitely buttress, or something very similar I may not know about, not worn down square.

I've spent HOURS at this point scouring old catalog scans, image searching, and trying to dig through patent files (I'm not so good at that yet...lol) but have come up with NOTHING.

Someone please figure this thing out!!...lolol. The more I mess with it the more I like it, but not knowing what, when, where, who, etc....is driving me nuts!! I don't think it's a "one off"; seems too "nice" for a homemade job.

Puzzled!

I won't have time to tear it down much more for a bit, but I'd LOVE to know some history.

Come on vise sages, bring me knowledge!!

 

[MattGavriloff]

Kevin asked I add complete specs for the mystery vise so he can add it to the sheet, maybe by the time he has a chance we will know where he should put it...lol

Jaws - 3 3/8" Wide
(I'm nearly POSITIVE it's not worn down 3 1/2", there's markings/nicks on the ends, but not that kind of wear IMHO.

Jaws open safely a maximum of 7"
(Seems wide to me for the jaw width, looooong slide...lol)

Weighs 40.0 Lbs

Also I'm including some more detail pictures in the hopes of helping someone recognize a feature and track down some history. I'm still blank thus far searching.

A couple points of interest:
-The "meatball" is pinned/rivited, not sure if it's a repair or as built.
-The jaws serrations don't strike me as familiar, maybe they will be to someone. (Screws are a mess, original or not and the shelves are all but gone...lol)
-The slide is BEEFY, not Parker beefy, but thicker than say a Prentiss. The space for the retaining collar looks JUST large enough, and there's no "step" at the back inside under the slide. It's the full thickness along whole top length.
-The handle seem abnormally long, and thin for as long as it is. It's a wonder it's not horribly bent, just the tiniest bit in one easily straightened spot. Pictured with a Parker 953 and 104 for comparison. The Parker 104 has a longer handle than my Reed or Prentiss 4" vises as well. This one is nearly 14" long...lol
-cleaned up the top of the swivel lockdown knob (Hoping for Prentiss markings maybe) but nothing there.
-Again, buttress or similar thread on the screw and the odd, half length nut.

Hopefully someone will recognize a feature or stumble across an old patent so I can give this thing a name!

At this point the only places left for any clues are under the swivel jaw, and base, and I'm not sure when I'll have time/space to tear further into it. I may toss the body into the bucket of ATF/acetone in the hopes that by the time I get to it it'll free up easily.

 

[Fierljeppen]

MattGavriloff...Excellent job on the photos! Is there any other information to be gathered from the seller of the estate sale that may be pertinent?

I've searched all of my vise databases without any luck. I will tell you that in my vise directory database, there's quite a few manufacturers that I've never heard of, nor could I find any information on them via the web.

If it were my vise, I'd consider it a badge of honor that I owned a vintage production vise that could not be identified by the illustrious members of the GarageJournal. It's quite an achievement and maybe you even deserve some kind of award for that. As far as the spreadsheet, KMScott and FMC1959 have provided a space at the very top for "unknown" vises, like your own. Vise puzzles have been solved after being placed there as well.



If it continues to bother you, I would be more than happy to make a trade with you from my own very identified vise collection. Vise on!

 

[MattGavriloff]

Wow, that's quite a compliment (more so for the vise than myself...lol). I'm reasonably new here, but I've "read around" enough to know your collection likely has several things I could be tempted with, but the allure of the mystery vise may be too strong to let go. I will keep that in mind though should I decide to part ways with it.

I will see if I can gather any better information for the estate. I know the guy who ran the sale, but I don't know what better info he may have. I will say the place was just packed with tools and garage/shop related items. I got a "railroad" feel from some of the "decor", and it was located DEAD-CENTER of the Upper Peninsula Iron Range (a LITTLE mining history up here...lol)

There was a garage, two outbuildings, and a basement of stuff, and I didn't have time to find half of what I probably COULD have. The pile of axes and tools I did grab will more than cover the cost of everything, including gas and, both vises (I know I didn't miss any of those... ). Those were the things I specifically went for, so I felt pretty successful for the day!

I will say though, I NEVER would have guessed while laying on my side, in the dirt, absolutely sweltering in the garage, scrambling for tools to remove the three different sized fasteners on this vise, that it would turn out to be a "unicorn" of sorts. I knew I didn't recognize it, but my vise knowledge is only a few years old, so I wasn't suprised.

As frustrating as it is not knowing, it IS exciting knowing the experts are stumped...lol...Sorry Fellas...

I do have a question for said experts, and it will show both my age, and a bit of my naivety when it comes to vintage tools. I've been assuming to this point yes; but can it be said that this vise is definitively "American" made? (and why?) I know I can tell an unmarked Record or Woden from an unmarked Reed or Prentiss...lol, but I'm not knowledged enough to pick up on any design clues or stylings that may point to at least a BROAD origin of this vise.

Sorry for the long windness, I tend to ramble, and I have lots of questions...Someone let me know if I'm cluttering up the information thread with too much chatter please...

 

[akasrick]

Wow, that's quite a compliment (more so for the vise than myself...lol). I'm reasonably new here, but I've "read around" enough to know your collection likely has several things I could be tempted with, but the allure of the mystery vise may be too strong to let go. I will keep that in mind though should I decide to part ways with it.

I will see if I can gather any better information for the estate. I know the guy who ran the sale, but I don't know what better info he may have. I will say the place was just packed with tools and garage/shop related items. I got a "railroad" feel from some of the "decor", and it was located DEAD-CENTER of the Upper Peninsula Iron Range (a LITTLE mining history up here...lol)

There was a garage, two outbuildings, and a basement of stuff, and I didn't have time to find half of what I probably COULD have. The pile of axes and tools I did grab will more than cover the cost of everything, including gas and, both vises (I know I didn't miss any of those... ). Those were the things I specifically went for, so I felt pretty successful for the day!

I will say though, I NEVER would have guessed while laying on my side, in the dirt, absolutely sweltering in the garage, scrambling for tools to remove the three different sized fasteners on this vise, that it would turn out to be a "unicorn" of sorts. I knew I didn't recognize it, but my vise knowledge is only a few years old, so I wasn't suprised.

As frustrating as it is not knowing, it IS exciting knowing the experts are stumped...lol...Sorry Fellas...

I do have a question for said experts, and it will show both my age, and a bit of my naivety when it comes to vintage tools. I've been assuming to this point yes; but can it be said that this vise is definitively "American" made? (and why?) I know I can tell an unmarked Record or Woden from an unmarked Reed or Prentiss...lol, but I'm not knowledged enough to pick up on any design clues or stylings that may point to at least a BROAD origin of this vise.

Sorry for the long windness, I tend to ramble, and I have lots of questions...Someone let me know if I'm cluttering up the information thread with too much chatter please...

As now, probably then, also, the wacky world of vises.
In your travels keep this vise in mind.
I've never found anything showing it.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-vises-of-garage-journal.44782/page-1866#post-8068628
akasrick

 

[KMScott]

As now, probably then, also, the wacky world of vises.
In your travels keep this vise in mind.
I've never found anything showing it.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-vises-of-garage-journal.44782/page-1866#post-8068628
akasrick

Got any more pic:s and spec:s and then I could add this vise to the Mystery list. Kevin

 

[akasrick]

Got any more pic:s and spec:s and then I could add this vise to the Mystery list. Kevin

Kevin this vise opens safely 1 7/8 inches.
Has a jaw width of 2"s full.
It didn't come with any underbench hardware.
On the left is Bonney hardware.
The hardware on the right is what I use for it.
Both weigh at almost 4lbs. Kitchen WW scale.
What I find interesting is the pin going thru the vise body,
under the main screw along with a screw that I didn't remove
that holds it in to the vise body.
Hopefully it doesn't remain a mystery.

akasrick
edit: What I should have wrote is hardware that came with a Bonney vise. edit

akasrick

added picture

 

[KMScott]

Athol 444-1/2. 4-1/2" swivel jaw Coachman vise.

 

[tool_scrounge]

A few additions/comments on the Charles Parker Union 595A spreadsheet entry:

Weight: 62 lbs
Max opening: 8"

The link to 595A photos is to a post of someone who copied some of my photos. The original post with all the 595A vise photos is below:
Parker 595A vise

Thanks

 

[Charles Waugh]

I put together an Excel Spreadsheet with specs, links to pics, as well as a second worksheet that has links for brochures, general ads, news articles and patents.

Vise Info Spreadsheet - Specs & Brochures
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sHFRfY_DFXMz6bFeeYI7UKRpUd3aheAE86KBQRBGb9s/edit?usp=sharing

The vise thread has tons of info on it but getting close to 3000 pages, the Excel is just a means to find things easier. Many links are from the page they appeared on, 99% from GJ. But I have many items saved on my PC or some stuff other GJ members have e-mailed me, I need to post them somewhere to link them, so I will do that on this thread.

If anone has pecs, pics, brochures or anything vise related, you can post those items here. If anyone finds errors in anything posted, please let me know, you can post it on here also.

I will add it or make corrections when time permits. I should have a new upload once or twice a month

The American scale 23A that I just got is 80 pounds (not 45 as in the spreadsheet) and has 4-1/2" wide jaws (not 4" as in the spreadsheet.) I'll get some pics to you pretty quick - once I get it mounted all pretty. : - )

 

[Dlavallee22]

Yost “The Gem“ 702 1/2 with 2 1/2” jaws, opens 3”, and weighs 9lbs 10oz (Yes I have a newborn we need to weigh very often with a special scale lol that’s a very accurate weight!).

Does anyone have any info on this or maybe a timeline of when it may have been made? It’s in great shape and very well well made/machined. This one isn’t on the spreadsheet Kevin!

 

[Fierljeppen]

Yost “The Gem“ 702 1/2 with 2 1/2” jaws, opens 3”, and weighs 9lbs 10oz (Yes I have a newborn we need to weigh very often with a special scale lol that’s a very accurate weight!).

Does anyone have any info on this or maybe a timeline of when it may have been made? It’s in great shape and very well well made/machined. This one isn’t on the spreadsheet Kevin!

The very first sighting of a Yost "The Gem" vise is in a 1916 Chilton Automobile Directory. They continued to be listed in manufacturing directories thru 1919, but do not show up in the 1920 Yost Vise Catalog. So, the timeline at this point seems to be (1916-1919). I'm sure it would be in a Yost Vise catalog of that time period.

I'm guessing that they were probably a very good quality machinist vise that was considered Yost's economy model. They are fairly rare and with yours being a 2-1/2" model, I would expect the cash or trade value to be very good.

Blessings to the newborn and family.

 

[KMScott]

A few additions/comments on the Charles Parker Union 595A spreadsheet entry:

Weight: 62 lbs
Max opening: 8"

The link to 595A photos is to a post of someone who copied some of my photos. The original post with all the 595A vise photos is below:
Parker 595A vise

Thanks

Hey Tool Scrounge. Thanks for the up date. The 595A Union Parker has your original post as the link I don't know what you mean when you said someone copied your pic:s. Any way thanks for the corrected weight and max opening. I try to be as acurate as I can and depend on the info you guys give me.

 

[Dlavallee22]

The very first sighting of a Yost "The Gem" vise is in a 1916 Chilton Automobile Directory. They continued to be listed in manufacturing directories thru 1919, but do not show up in the 1920 Yost Vise Catalog. So, the timeline at this point seems to be (1916-1919). I'm sure it would be in a Yost Vise catalog of that time period.

I'm guessing that they were probably a very good quality machinist vise that was considered Yost's economy model. They are fairly rare and with yours being a 2-1/2" model, I would expect the cash or trade value to be very good.

Blessings to the newborn and family.

Thank you very much Fierljeppen! And thank you for the info on this little Yost you were able to dig up. I was definitely striking out on finding any info.

Here is another cool vise found recently, a Fulton 1825 with 2 1/2” jaws that is missing the swivel base unfortunately. Still an awesome rare little vise nonetheless!

 

[KMScott]

Williamson Rotator Body. 7" jaws. Quote from the owner. How wide are the jaws? " hi, its about 7" Where did you get it? "hello, in a shipyard on Lake Como Italy"

 

[KMScott]

Williamson #3 Rotator Body. Waiting on spec:s.

 

[KMScott]

Massey Clincher #36. 6" jaws that opens to 9-1/2" and weights 135 lbs

 

[MattGavriloff]

Awesome pics Kevin! That 7" rotator looks HEAVY!!

And a big brother to my Massey 34, very cool! If thats yours I'm wondering if you can take a peek at the main screw and with your "years of expirience" say if you think it's "large" for the jaw width? I haven't torn my Clincher down yet, but for 5" jaws, the mainscrew appears the same size as my Parker 69, which is the exact same screw as my Parker 5X...5.5 and 6" vises. The Massey seems like a heavily (over?) built vise IMHO...

 

[RDW]

Picked these two brothers up this past Sat. morning at an auction. Got them both for $165.00 each. To me, the odd thing was there were only two of us slightly interested in these two vises. I was really surprised there were not more folks in the hunt.
Both are one-finger turns. No welds or broken anything. I really feel fortunate to have got these two.
Now, to clean, and then who knows.
Both have the same numbers, "5 81". The jaws are 5" wide opens to 8" with a throat of 41/2" and weighs 98lbs.
These are my 1st Wilton Bullet vises. Can someone tell me the name of the original color these two would have been?
When I refurbish these I want to really do it right. At least the best I can.

 

[KMScott]

Matt, that vise is in Europe. Wish it was mine. Maybe I can get more spec:s from the owner and ask about the spindle threads.

RDW. I believe your Wilton was painted machine grey. Lucky to get two of them the same sale.

 

[MattGavriloff]

Oh, I though the Massey was in the states, or possibly your possession. I caught the part about the rotator being in/from Italy. I figured you'd sound more excited if THAT thing was yours...lol

 

[RDW]

Matt, that vise is in Europe. Wish it was mine. Maybe I can get more spec:s from the owner and ask about the spindle threads.

RDW. I believe your Wilton was painted machine grey. Lucky to get two of them the same sale.

Thanks much KM

 

[KMScott]

Hollands 34 swivel jaw. 4" wide jaws, 5.75" max opening. 56 lbs without the handle.

 

[KMScott]

Dunlap 5241. 3-1/4" jaws that opens to 3-1/2" and weights 11lbs.

Thanks Fierljeppen for the spec"s

 

[Fierljeppen]

Dunlap 5241. Waiting on spec:s

Here's some 1954 Sears catalog specs. for the Dunlop 5241 vise. It looks all Rock Island Mfg. to me.

 

[va.grouseman]

$1001.00, looks like one of those Price-Is-Right snipes.

RARE Vintage Columbian Cut-a-Way Vise - Salesman's Sample - Very Cool mdl 603-M2 | eBay

Super rare find and if you collect vises, especially old Columbians, this is very nearly the holy grail for your display. Where as the real deal would have been steel throughout, this one uses a base, main body (static jaw) and dynamic jaw made of aluminum.

www.ebay.com

 

[KMScott]

Columbian 603 M2 Aluminum Cut-a-Way-Vise. 3" jaws that opens to 4-1/2" and only weights 11-1/2lbs.

Thanks va.

 

[FMC1959]

Columbian 603 M2 Aluminum Cut-a-Way-Vise. 3" jaws that opens to 4-1/2" and only weights 11-1/2lbs.

Thanks va.

$1001.00, looks like one of those Price-Is-Right snipes.

RARE Vintage Columbian Cut-a-Way Vise - Salesman's Sample - Very Cool mdl 603-M2 | eBay

Super rare find and if you collect vises, especially old Columbians, this is very nearly the holy grail for your display. Where as the real deal would have been steel throughout, this one uses a base, main body (static jaw) and dynamic jaw made of aluminum.

www.ebay.com

Very cool vise but for $1000? A little absurd, but then again if you want something very unique, you gotta pay

 

[KMScott]

Rock Island 170. 3" jaws that opens to 3-1/2" and weights 20lbs

 

[KMScott]

Swinden #3. 3" jaws that opens to 5" safely and weights 31lbs.

 

[Dlavallee22]

Prentiss Monarch 209 with 2 1/2” jaws, 3” max opening, and weighs 9.5 lbs. Does anyone know the Monarch timeline? I haven’t been able to find much of anything and smallest listed anywhere was a 213 with 3 1/2” jaws. Any help is always appreciated!

 

[Fierljeppen]

Prentiss Monarch 209 with 2 1/2” jaws, 3” max opening, and weighs 9.5 lbs. Does anyone know the Monarch timeline? I haven’t been able to find much of anything and smallest listed anywhere was a 213 with 3 1/2” jaws. Any help is always appreciated!

Prentiss had the "Monarch" Trademark, which was associated with the Lion's Head, published on June 20, 1905. However, the original models did not include the jaw sizes of 2", 2-1/2" and 3". These models came sometime later, as they had the 1911-patent removable jaw faces.



According to a 1920 product list, Prentiss had stopped producing the "Monarch" vise models all together, however, the jaw sizes of 2", 2-1/2" and 3" were added to the "Bulldog" machinist line, retaining their original model numbers as seen in the catalog below. It is believed that these vises continued to be produced into the 1930's.



The small 2" and 2-1/2" machinist vises continue to command a premium with collectors. Personally, I don't see that trend changing for the foreseeable future.

...a special thanks to "Smitty" for his input to this posting.

 

[Indexmill]

Very cool vise but for $1000? A little absurd, but then again if you want something very unique, you gotta pay

For alot of people, and I suspect for some on this board, $1000 is nothing.

 

[Dlavallee22]

Prentiss had the "Monarch" Trademark, which was associated with the Lion's Head, published on June 20, 1905. However, the original models did not include the jaw sizes of 2", 2-1/2" and 3". These models came sometime later, as they had the 1911-patent removable jaw faces.



According to a 1920 product list, Prentiss had stopped producing the "Monarch" vise models all together, however, the jaw sizes of 2", 2-1/2" and 3" were added to the "Bulldog" machinist line, retaining their original model numbers as seen in the catalog below. It is believed that these vises continued to be produced into the 1930's.



The small 2" and 2-1/2" machinist vises continue to command a premium with collectors. Personally, I don't see that trend changing for the foreseeable future.

...a special thanks to "Smitty" for his input to this posting.

Thank you Fierljeppen for the background and history and thanks to you too Smitty!

I also just acquired a Bull Dog 209 and it’s is nearly identical. I have to say though, the one Kevin Scott restored and is on the spreadsheet def looks a little better! It’s pretty cool to compare these two as Monarchs were supposedly lighter duty but the Bull Dog 209 weighs exactly the same as the Monarch 209 confirming they carried the smaller sizes over and simply changed the name and a few very slights differences in the casting.

The Bull Dog 209 I have has a slightly different casting on the side of the dynamic where “Prentiss” is arched but that’s only difference I noticed from pictures of others I found

 

[Dlavallee22]

Parker Trojan 701 - pics for spreadsheet!

 

[KMScott]

Yost # 78 Swivel Jaw. 6" jaws that opens to 10" and weights 168 lbs.

 

[KMScott]

Keen Kutter M400. 4" jaws that opens to 6" and weights 41 lbs

 

[KMScott]

Fisher & Norris 450S. Waiting on specs.

 

[KMScott]

American Standard/Scale 215A. 4" jaws that opens to 6" and weights 43lbs.

 

[Dlavallee22]

Came across a really cool E.C. Stearns & Co. of Syracuse, NY clamp on vise with 2” jaws, 2” max opening, and weighs 2 3/4 lbs. It has a very cool design to it but only has a no. 2 on the side of the dynamic. A buddy of mine found a scan from 1924 but this should be a no. 16 according to the scan. Maybe the 2 just indicates jaw width? Not sure of the model number on this one.

I also tried digging to find a patent as it has a very light stamping of “PAT’D MAY 10 191?” but I couldn’t find any evidence of this patent for E.C. Stearns & Co. Any chance anyone else can shed some light on this one and figure out the last number in the year for the patent?