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Was this just for framing and can I remove it?

Makoto

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A couple of these are on my walls and need to be dealt with before I can put up sheetrock.

IMG_20140630_162452_108_zpslufwmjbg.jpg


I have 6 22 foot joists going front to back holding the walls up and two pieced together joists above those with some braces in the attic.

Thoughts from the experts?

Thanks!
 
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BFBOB

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Those diagonals are part of the building structure. They prevent the wall from racking, something that your horizontal siding boards won't do. They must be there, but there are three ways you can deal with them.
1: nail furring strips to all the studs, bringing your surface for drywall attachment out flush.
2: inset the diagonal. Nail on a temporary diagonal, mark the position of the current one, remove it, notch the studs to inset it flush with the stud surfaces, replace, remove the temporary.
3: Finish your walls with plywood (or OSB if you're a cheapskate), 1/2" minimum, do it in sections and remove the diagonals only after some of the plywoood is in place.

I think 3 is the best option because it solves your structural problem AND gives you a dramatically stronger wall surface. Plywood looks good painted, and you could even mud/tape the joints (I wouldn't). OSB looks pretty bad to me even painted, but that's a matter of opinion.
 

alwaysFlOoReD

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If it was my place;
It looks to me that there is already a diagonal inset under the exterior sheathing. I would pull the interior diagonal and proceed. Personally I don't like sheetrock in a garage, I would go with plywood and maybe slotwall on the upper half.

Richard
 

Modern Jess

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If it were me, I would probably remove the inner one and then put up drywall. There's a brace cut in already, though the open question is whether it is substantial enough to keep the wall square.

3: Finish your walls with plywood (or OSB if you're a cheapskate), 1/2" minimum, do it in sections and remove the diagonals only after some of the plywoood is in place.

This might be your best option. The plywood will serve the same purpose as the brace (and then some). If you still want drywall (and I would -- better fire protection, nicer space) then you could attach the drywall to the plywood after the fact.
 

ADSR

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That was just put on until the outside sheathing was nailed up.
 

RossABQ

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You've got your answers on the diagonal; thought I'd mention the total lack of receptacles on that wall! Now or never...
 
OP
M

Makoto

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In case it matters, this is on the back right corner (this being the front left corner) so the back left corner has no diagonal 2x4 and the front right corner is attached to the house so I think that would add to structural stability.

All corners have the exterior diagonal supports.
 

porschedude996TT

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I would shear wall it with 3/8 plywood. Start in the corner after nailing the 2 x 6 at the 5-6' distance from the starting corner. Then saw off the first 4' of the 2 x 6 and shear the inside of using a roof nailing pattern 6" on center for the perimeter and 12" on center in the field. After the first two panels I would pull the remainder of the 2 x 6 and continue the shear wall.

Add the electrical and or insulation before you shear panel.
 

JakeKohl

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There is already a diagonal brace cut in and attached on the exterior side of the wall. The one on the inside is just for holding it together while the wall was lifted into place. You should be fine removing the inside angular piece of 2x.

An interior shear wall of OSB (as mentioned earlier) wouldn't hurt a thing.
 
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tarmy

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I live in California and am amazed at how few structures I see (on this site) that are built that could take any shear force...or earthquake. We are so use to spectacularly strong "systems" being built into our structures...that something like this would scare the hell outa me.

I would start with tying the floor plate to the slab...drilling into the conc. Then remove the interior diagonal...and shear with plywood/OSB tying the floor rim to the studs to the cap plate(s).

I agree with some of the others...run power, air, whatever now...and finish the interior with whatever (paint/slatboard/pegboard)...drywall gets the **** beat out of it...and you will have way more flexibility in attaching things to the plywood.
 

woodrail

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This might be your best option. The plywood will serve the same purpose as the brace (and then some). If you still want drywall (and I would -- better fire protection, nicer space) then you could attach the drywall to the plywood after the fact.

This.

I wouldn't worry about staging the removal of the diagonal while hanging the plywood. Rip it off and hang the plywood. I then would go buy some slatwall from Home Depot and get out the paint roller.
 

GH85Carrera

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I have to agree with most of the advice. Sheet it with plywood AFTER you add a lot of electrical outlets. Several different 15 amps circuits would be good. Add some insulation then sheet it with plywood. Drywall on top of that if you want it pretty with paint.
 

ford33

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It does not appear the wall is fastened to the concrete floor. I would attach the wall to the concrete. This was mentioned earlier.

Your garage looks clean and would be a nice place to work.
 

Roady94

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Decades of framing experience weighing in here.

The diagonal on the outside is called a 'Let-in Brace'. It is recessed into the 2x4 studs to provide resistance to racking, as others have explained, and to allow a flush surface for exterior sheathing/siding install.

The interior 2x4 is redundant, and not necessary.

As others have suggested, covering the interior of the wall with minimum 3/8" plywood, OSB, or other sheathing will provide all racking resistance you will ever need.

Point of interest: Let-in braces faded from use with the introduction of plywood as a sheathing material, replacing the 1x6 T&G sheathing common prior to that point.
 

dirttracker18

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Funny we do not use or need any kind of bracing like that here. The sheeting on the outside serves that purpose but we have not big winds or earthquakes to contend with.
 

SALIV8

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Lots of people recommending wood and more wood. Don't forget fire ratings. If you go wood, get fire rated wood at least..

Drywall is fire rated. That inside 2x was put up before the outside went on imo.. I bet that inside 2x isn't even fastened to many of the studs..
 
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p_mori7

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The diagonal on the outside is called a 'Let-in Brace'. It is recessed into the 2x4 studs to provide resistance to racking, as others have explained, and to allow a flush surface for exterior sheathing/siding install.

The interior 2x4 is redundant, and not necessary.

Point of interest: Let-in braces faded from use with the introduction of plywood as a sheathing material, replacing the 1x6 T&G sheathing common prior to that point.

Exactly correct.

I still use Let-In braces when I build. They make the wall extremely strong ! My Dad taught me how to do it 35 years ago. Using plywood and a shitload of nails, while technically acceptable; is still not the artful way of making a wall resistant to racking.

:thumbup:
 

atty5420

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Along with the 15A outlets, don't forget a couple of handy 240V, as well. Air outlets, optional.

I dismissed the air outlets when I was building reasoning that I didn't know where the cabinets, workbenches, etc. were going to land, so it was too much trouble. Big mistake. I'm now running hoses everywhere to make up for that one. Stop, think, imagine yourself working on a project, and where you would go to reach for.........? Obviously, where the compressor is going to live is good to know.
 
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RVDan

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What's the outside sheeted with? I put diagonals on to hold it straight while setting the wall and remove it after it's sheeted.
 

Kevin54

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I've built quite a few garages, and remodeled a few. Pull the inner 2x off, add your outlets, and cover with material of choice. You have external diagonal bracing, plus the material on the outside of the structure, and material you put on the inside will keep anythig from racking any even if it's drywall.
 

rieferman

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Hey Kev - I was going to ask someone more in-the-know than myself if sheetrock (especially if glued in addition to screws) would provide some shear value. My buddy's brother (professional foreman, previously professional sheetrock hanger) helped me sheetrock my barn rec room and said it would add "a lot" of strength, but I never dug in deeper to find out what that means exactly. Is there a rule of thumb? Is it 50% of plywood shear? More or less?
 

NUTTSGT

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I doubt that interior 2x4 helps with much at this time. I think it's use was more during the construction phase of the garage. If you look closely, I might be wrong as I can only see a picture, there is maybe 1 nail per stud and some studs don't appear to have any nails in them.

OP's picture.
IMG_20140630_162452_108_zpslufwmjbg.jpg
 

Modern Jess

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I doubt that interior 2x4 helps with much at this time. I think it's use was more during the construction phase of the garage. If you look closely, I might be wrong as I can only see a picture, there is maybe 1 nail per stud and some studs don't appear to have any nails in them.

Yeah, I think you're right. It doesn't appear to be contributing very much at this point.

To the OP: if that brace is only lightly nailed to the studs -- or not nailed to the majority of the studs -- then I think it's safe to assume that you can remove it.
 

volleyball

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You don't have to have all studs nailed for it to stop racking.
I agree with tying the roof to the footing while you can.
I agree with adding air and electrical while you are at it.
And since you have now spent way more than you had ever planned, I'd throw in some insulation.
The inside brace could have been additional bracing as well as cheap blocking.
Is the building plumb?
 

p_mori7

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Hey Kev - I was going to ask someone more in-the-know than myself if sheetrock (especially if glued in addition to screws) would provide some shear value. My buddy's brother (professional foreman, previously professional sheetrock hanger) helped me sheetrock my barn rec room and said it would add "a lot" of strength, but I never dug in deeper to find out what that means exactly. Is there a rule of thumb? Is it 50% of plywood shear? More or less?

Sheetrock adds very little shear value.

Sheetrock: +/-100 lb/ft load
Plywood: +/- 400lb/ft load
Let-In bracing: +/- 600lb/ft load.

Those numbers are from the National Research Council of Canada.
 

Kevin54

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Hey Kev - I was going to ask someone more in-the-know than myself if sheetrock (especially if glued in addition to screws) would provide some shear value. My buddy's brother (professional foreman, previously professional sheetrock hanger) helped me sheetrock my barn rec room and said it would add "a lot" of strength, but I never dug in deeper to find out what that means exactly. Is there a rule of thumb? Is it 50% of plywood shear? More or less?

It helps somewhat against racking once it is all up, but it does not provide "a lot" of strength. There were test done on framed houses with sheetrock walls, and the final conclusion was that sheetrock is not to be classified as to adding shear strength to a wall. But a lot of those test were conducted in California because of all of the seismic activity.

Does it add strength to prevent racking? It all depends on what one person calls racking vs. what another calls racking. It will never be as strong as OSB or plywood. But if you have a 16', 2x4 wall, and push on one end or the other, the wall WILL rack. Once you have 4 sheets of 1/2" drywall on it, then you go to one end or the other and push the wall, it will not rack unless you put a lot of effort into it. It would also be dependent on how it is fastened. Drywall nails will cut through drywall if you try to rack a wall, so one could say that drywall has no shear strength at all. using screws will reduce that somewhat, and naturally, if it is GLUED and screwed, then it is stronger yet. Exactly how much though is dependent on a lot of factors, and would really need quite a few of CONTROLLED test. Nailed or screwed, nailed and glued, screwed and glued, brand of glue, type of wood the drywall is on (Older fuzzy Oak studs, vs. new 2x4's), thickness of drywall, drywall mounted vertically vs. horizontally, then com[paring the vertical vs horizontal with nail, nails and glue, and on, and on, and on. :eyecrazy:

They do make a high strength drywall, and IIRC, it has fiberglass in it. I don't know whether it's in the paper or the Gypsum itself. There is a lot of variables as to what the shear strength actually is, and even climate would affect it which would also depend on how tight a house is.

Myself, I would say that it definitely does add shear strength to a wall, but ideally, OSB or Plywood would would be way better. Then of course there is the great debate that pops up every once in awhile about drywall vs. OSB :lol: Myself, i like drywall on a garage. I don't throw wrenches, I don't run into my walls, and as far as strength, whether the garage is strong or not.......well, it's just as strong as my house with drywall inside. So as far as shear strength, I imagine that will be a new topic that will pop up on Garage Journal every once in a while. My take of it is that if the structure has good bones, then put on the walls what you want on the walls. But if you don't have good bones, then drywall will not be a sure fire cure. :beer:
 

DekeT

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Tear the inside 2x4 out. If you are concerned about losing diagonal strength, you can cut put in a metal brace. You cut a groove along a snapped chalk line and the brace will nail in flat against the studs.
 

bczygan

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If you use sheetrock, and are worried that the exterior wood bracing is not enough, another solution is to install a metal diagonal brace on the inside. It installs into a saw kerf, so it is fairly flush to the studs.

$5 for a 12' piece at HD:
stfsa27a.jpg


stfsa34a.jpg
 

cheechi

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Considering how easy sheetrock shows cracks as a house settles, and how most of the time it's not installed with any kind of offset to stop cracks or shearing, in the real world it's not going to do much for you. If you have a weak or failing wall, it won't be held up by the drywall if some force is acting it on the shear.

It's pretty simple really. Racking is the tendency of the wall to shift away from square, and while properly installed sheet rock can prevent it some, nothing is more effective than diagonal bracing whether it be at the corners, let in, or I have seen some that's just a diagonal installed between two studs, especially near walls or windows (I know there is a proper term for this but I was taught how to do it by guys who didn't know the words for everything). Some also use the Simpson roll linked above or I have even seen plumbing hanging strap used.

Also I believe the above values are for a 10ft wall without consideration of any load bearing or whether it's an exterior wall. I might be a little off but I remember it's a more general thing than it should have been.
 

Bib Overalls

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This is going to sound counter intuitive. If you are worried about the wall racking take the inside 2x4 down and put it diagonally across the top of the ceiling joists.

When a wall racks it becomes a parallelogram. The top of the wall, which is also the end of ceiling square or rectangle, moves as well. The ceiling plane becomes a parallelogram as well. If you cross brace the ceiling plane to keep it from racking you also strengthen the walls as well.

From what I see, you don't need to do that. Your inlet brace is enough.

I do note that this is a useful bracing technique when much of a side wall is cut away for a garage door, large window, etc.

Let in bracing went away because, time being money, it became cheaper to use plywood sheathing.

I grew up in California when boards were cheap and plywood was expensive. Frame structures were decked and the walls were sheathed with boards, all on a 45 degree angle to the joists and studs. A good way to build in seismic areas. Today, California codes require sheathing on some interior walls as well.
 

Roady94

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Zeke

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I've built quite a few garages, and remodeled a few. Pull the inner 2x off, add your outlets, and cover with material of choice. You have external diagonal bracing, plus the material on the outside of the structure, and material you put on the inside will keep anythig from racking any even if it's drywall.

I was waiting for that before I posted. Drywall does have some shear value and with the let-in brace and installed with screws at the proper depth the DW should be enough for that particular structure.

BUT... you have little to nail to after holding the DW up off the floor to prevent moisture damage. I'd run a row of blocks at the bottom plate and nailing them well before installing the DW. Attaching the bottom plate to the slab is also a good idea if it's not already. Even the biggest Tapcons would be better than nothing. Probably now just has some nails which have rusted.

I would also consult with those that deal with humidity as I don't have much here. Once you close up those stud bays, you might get mold in there. I don't know whether a moisture barrier in garage would help or hinder.
 
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Kevin54

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I may be missing something with all of the ideas to keep the wall from racking, from steel strapping, to having to have that brace there, to Simpson Strong Tie products.

Is no one seeing the diagonal brace that is already on there on the outside of the 2x4's? So it is ridiculous to add one on the inside of the 2x4's.

And how many people giving explanations as to why he needs something, to either replace that 2x4 with something else, like the "T" bar, have built, covered their walls, or added a diagonal 2x4 on the inside?

Out of everyone that says he needs to replace the 2x4 with something else at an angle, my guess is that maybe the ones in California have a diagonal brace, but others most likely do not have it on their garage, but yet suggest that the OP should have.

And let's say he didn't have a 2x4 showing on the inside, but wondered about a wall covering, how many would still have mentioned that a diagonal brace needs to be installed first before covering the walls with anything? My guess is that no one would mention it. The reason I say that, is that some of the ones stressing the point that he needs something, have been on other build thread, and never tell other members that they really need a diagonal brace at all four corners.

Just an observation, and anyone can take it with a grain of salt. I just find it funny that this garage is going to be so darn crooked if he removes it, yet there is one at a slightly different angle just 3 1/2" away.
 

bczygan

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I may be missing something with all of the ideas to keep the wall from racking, from steel strapping, to having to have that brace there, to Simpson Strong Tie products.

Is no one seeing the diagonal brace that is already on there on the outside of the 2x4's? So it is ridiculous to add one on the inside of the 2x4's.

And how many people giving explanations as to why he needs something, to either replace that 2x4 with something else, like the "T" bar, have built, covered their walls, or added a diagonal 2x4 on the inside?

Out of everyone that says he needs to replace the 2x4 with something else at an angle, my guess is that maybe the ones in California have a diagonal brace, but others most likely do not have it on their garage, but yet suggest that the OP should have.

And let's say he didn't have a 2x4 showing on the inside, but wondered about a wall covering, how many would still have mentioned that a diagonal brace needs to be installed first before covering the walls with anything? My guess is that no one would mention it. The reason I say that, is that some of the ones stressing the point that he needs something, have been on other build thread, and never tell other members that they really need a diagonal brace at all four corners.

Just an observation, and anyone can take it with a grain of salt. I just find it funny that this garage is going to be so darn crooked if he removes it, yet there is one at a slightly different angle just 3 1/2" away.

Kevin,
I totally agree.
Additional bracing to replace that interior board is NOT necessary.
But if the OP is worried, and this reassures him, it's cheap mental insurance.

Bill
 
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