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water off roof collection

RiceD

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Anyone here collecting water off of their barn? I know it can be achieved with rain barrels but I was thinking of something a little bit larger so. Anybody have a story about how they're doing it? Gravity feeding water to garden? Wat? What materials a/tanks are you using?
 
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LB-1911

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66HertzClone

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In order to secure a building permit for our addition we were required to add a system to collect the rainwater from the roof of the house. The leaders are connected to pipes buried and directed to a detention basin dug in the back yard. The basin measures 27' by 27' and 3' deep, it has a discharge pipe 6" in size to allow the collected water to drain slowly out. The sad fact is we live on 4 1/4 acres, the rain water naturally flows to the area where the basin is now located. What we end up with is a potential mosquito breeding pond.
 

JonnyMac

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Hi
Very common practice in this part of the world.
My roof water flows into a moderate size (5000L) water tank with mosquito mesh on the openings.
It directly feeds my toilet cisterns and washing machine. The tank has a level sensor connected to the mains water which it uses to top up when there isn't much rain about.
I have another smaller tank on the other side of the house which I use just for the garden, car cleaning etc. I would recommend a pump though as even though my pressure washer claims it can work from a bucket it still struggles with just gravity feed..
Jon
 

Modern Jess

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We're facing a severe drought this year in California, so rainwater harvesting is becoming a bit more popular. I've just in the last couple of days ordered a Bushman slimline 265 gallon rainwater harvesting tank. A bit late in the season, and it might not be in before the last rain this year. Still, if I can capture even one decent rainfall I'll have quite a bit of water stored for the drier months to come.
 

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RiceD

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John is this common practice in most of Australia or just your part of Australia? I think it's great that you're able to use rainwater this way. Does this water move through a filtration system or are you using unfiltered rainwater? I think many in my part of the United States would find it strange to use unfiltered rainwater due to the perception of pollutants/acidity; however, I still think it's a good idea and thanks for sharing.

As far as the pump is concerned, are you using a mechanical pump or are you talking Electric? Impressive either way.
 
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RiceD

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nice! pumping it out of the tank? are you using the water to irrigate crops, water your lawn, wash your vehicles? I wonder how many people are filtering this water for drinking? that's another interest of mine...

wonder if I'm allowed to breathe the air in someof these localities? no, I hear you loud and clear... I can imagine some places cracking down on the ability to store water. I'm not sure I understand why except perhaps to avoid health problems due to contamination...
 

Modern Jess

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I can imagine some places cracking down on the ability to store water. I'm not sure I understand why except perhaps to avoid health problems due to contamination...

The objection to rainwater harvesting usually comes down to water rights. Theoretically, someone else has the legal right to the water that falls on your property (after it flows into a river or through an aquifer).
 

Higgins

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We have two properties out in CO. One property has no water rights. That means if we were to build on that property, we would have to truck in 10K gallons at a time. The other property will allow us to drill a domestic use well only. That means water can only be used inside the house. No outside spigot, no washing cars, lawns etc.... However, I can catch water off the roof!

AL
 
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RiceD

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that's incredibly interesting ducks face. I would love to have the means to harvest filter and sustain my own drinking supply... may I ask how much they set up like yours would cost? An estimate on the materials and then whatever labor which I could probably handle much of it on my own...
 

Modern Jess

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Thanks for sharing. I learn something new everyday. I'm beside myself in a way... I have heard of water rights as it pertains to some South American countries, but didn't know we were so strict about it in parts of the States.

Water rights are very much intertwined into the fabric of the American landscape. It's a complicated, old, and sometimes very messy subject. That said, I don't think most states have any objection to rainwater harvesting -- just a few notable cases in the last decade or so where the objection was raised. Colorado is one of them (though I think they backed off of that somewhat) and Utah is another. There might be more, but those are the two I've heard of where there's a legal hurdle to collecting rainwater.
 
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RiceD

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Water rights are very much intertwined into the fabric of the American landscape. It's a complicated, old, and sometimes very messy subject. That said, I don't think most states have any objection to rainwater harvesting -- just a few notable cases in the last decade or so where the objection was raised. Colorado is one of them (though I think they backed off of that somewhat) and Utah is another. There might be more, but those are the two I've heard of where there's a legal hurdle to collecting rainwater.

Old and complicated indeed. ....that makes sense. Yes it's the objection to collecting water off one's roof that's mind boggling. Whereas someone damning up a creek (particularly in an arid region) would trigger some legal action or old school justice.
 
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RiceD

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Filters were nothing. My preliminary filters are made of scotchbrite and I'm about to integrate those cone shaped ricer type automotive air cleaners in to the secondary prefilter.
Tanks are expensive, usually $2 a gallon but in your area under craiglist farm and garden I bet 1500 gallon tanks are $300 to $500 used. My back up, unused pump/pressure tank was $35 at an auction.
My RO unit runs $300 or so and makes fifty gallons a day of bottled quality water.

Other filters are "big blue" and pretty cheap.

Very nice. Thanks for the data man. $300 for RO sounds like a no brainer!!
 
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RiceD

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And although it may not be illegal to collect rainwater, some municipalities claim the run-off, so if you collect it, they TAX you...uh...even though it falls OUT OF THE SKY!!!

I thought about getting some rain barrels or a tank to store rain runoff. But these just cost too much for the volume of water I needed for lawn irrigation. Since I own the mineral rights on this property I decided to store the water I needed in a vast underground layer of water-bearing permeable rock, also known as an aquifer, that lies about 550' under my lawn. To access and extract my stored water I use a well with a pump.

Much to the consternation of the government agents and water-police, I use a water-reel and move more than 8,000 gallons per irrigation night.


Rock on!!
 

LB-1911

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JonnyMac

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John is this common practice in most of Australia or just your part of Australia? I think it's great that you're able to use rainwater this way. Does this water move through a filtration system or are you using unfiltered rainwater? I think many in my part of the United States would find it strange to use unfiltered rainwater due to the perception of pollutants/acidity; however, I still think it's a good idea and thanks for sharing.

As far as the pump is concerned, are you using a mechanical pump or are you talking Electric? Impressive either way.

National practice really, in fact it's a requirement for new builds in many areas.
It's an electric pump and there are filters but given that its only used to flush the toilet and wash clothes (thats obviously got a splash of detergent in it) the filters arent that important.
There is also a color coding for the pipe work. Its all plastic pipes with different colors for different water. Recycled is purple and grey water is black etc.
Many many people live off grid with regard to water. A single filter under the sink is often all that's needed..
 

theoldwizard1

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I have 4 - 55 gallon drums. I really need 4 more if I am going to get my garden through summer without paying the ridiculous rates we have in SE MI for municipal water.
 

theoldwizard1

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We use it for all the house.
We have three filters going in to the tank, a five micron coming out, a carbon coming out, and a nine stage reverse osmosis unit with uv light for drinking water, and soon for the entire house.
There's a standard shallow well type pump and a pressure tank that draws from the 10k tank. No one knows unless we tell them.

10,000 gallons gets a bit musty, but chlorine cures that. Chlorine injector is being built so I don't have to jack with it.


I'm not very afraid of rainwater raw or massaged.

With your filtration and treatment your water is probably better than most municipalities !

Never heard of RO for the "whole house".
 

Playwme

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John is this common practice in most of Australia or just your part of Australia? I think it's great that you're able to use rainwater this way. Does this water move through a filtration system or are you using unfiltered rainwater? I think many in my part of the United States would find it strange to use unfiltered rainwater due to the perception of pollutants/acidity; however, I still think it's a good idea and thanks for sharing.

As far as the pump is concerned, are you using a mechanical pump or are you talking Electric? Impressive either way.

Pretty much everywhere. You can't build a new detached house in our city without putting in a rainwater tank or complying with a 7 star water rating. Most rural properties don't have any other option and will often have in excess of 100,000 litres of storage.
Plenty of houses use unfiltered water. Most city systems the rainwater is used just for toilet, laundry and garden, but plenty use it for drinking as well.
 

Lippyp

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If its just for flushing a toilet or garden then see if you can get hold of a couple of IBC's (Internediate Bulk Container) otherwise known as Pallet tanks. The biggest size I think holds 330 gallons. Build a platform to keep em up in the air a way and you'll get decent gravity flow from them too. I'm thinking about getting one to collect water from an outbuilding this summer for watering the garden.
 
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RiceD

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That's great. So in my world that's roughly 25,000 gallons of water. I'm sure I could look this up somewhere, but I'll ask here because well why not ask? How long would 100,000 liters of water last in drought conditions (assuming the tank is nearly full)?
 

SteveCh

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We did this for many years. I built a concrete cistern, poured a concrete pad and used cinder block to make walls. I topped it with a shed-type roof.

I tried to seal the tank with a Portland-based material. It began to leak in a few months. Ultimately, I had to drain the tank and install a custom-made liner. For a 2200-gal cistern the liner cost me about $350. No more leaks.

I had gutter along the house roof, plumbed the downspouts into the cistern. We had lots of water. Eventually, I discovered that harvesting rain water in this manner is illegal in my state, I had to disconnect everything.

I am in freezing territory, so I had to insulate my cistern with foam panels. In your case, you wouldn't have to, I expect. And I believe you would be better off simply purchasing a polypropylene or other tank and setting in on the ground, surround it with some sort of simple shed-like structure to protect it from UV. I could not do that here, as the tank would have to be buried to protect from freezing, and my house and yard are solid bedrock. You could bury a ready-made tank but then you would not have gravity feed.

Another thing some people do is, rather than build a tank like I did, is to get themselves one of those vaults used in septic systems, the type with no holes in the sides. You would need to have a way to get it off a truck and set into position or have someone deliver it with a crane on the truck. But it would be a ready-made tank. Rumors are these vaults are pretty inexpensive, though I have not checked that.

By the way, from experience I can tell you you'll have to screen the incoming water for detritus such as leaves and pine needles or whatever. Otherwise, the outlet will eventually plug. And, you will find yourself periodically emptying the tank so you can get in there and clean out all the organic junk.
 
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RiceD

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We did this for many years. I built a concrete cistern, poured a concrete pad and used cinder block to make walls. I topped it with a shed-type roof.

I tried to seal the tank with a Portland-based material. It began to leak in a few months. Ultimately, I had to drain the tank and install a custom-made liner. For a 2200-gal cistern the liner cost me about $350. No more leaks.

I had gutter along the house roof, plumbed the downspouts into the cistern. We had lots of water. Eventually, I discovered that harvesting rain water in this manner is illegal in my state, I had to disconnect everything.

I am in freezing territory, so I had to insulate my cistern with foam panels. In your case, you wouldn't have to, I expect. And I believe you would be better off simply purchasing a polypropylene or other tank and setting in on the ground, surround it with some sort of simple shed-like structure to protect it from UV. I could not do that here, as the tank would have to be buried to protect from freezing, and my house and yard are solid bedrock. You could bury a ready-made tank but then you would not have gravity feed.

Another thing some people do is, rather than build a tank like I did, is to get themselves one of those vaults used in septic systems, the type with no holes in the sides. You would need to have a way to get it off a truck and set into position or have someone deliver it with a crane on the truck. But it would be a ready-made tank. Rumors are these vaults are pretty inexpensive, though I have not checked that.

By the way, from experience I can tell you you'll have to screen the incoming water for detritus such as leaves and pine needles or whatever. Otherwise, the outlet will eventually plug. And, you will find yourself periodically emptying the tank so you can get in there and clean out all the organic junk.


Good info. So you're talking a sewage collection tank? That might be a good idea. They're made of concrete and I wonder how water tight they actually are since they're designed to push into distribution containers and leach field. But still, a novel thought!
 

SteveCh

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I have never had a septic system. I do know that there are different types, those which allow the waste to settle and then the liquid is distributed out through pipes into the field. You then have the settled solids pumped out now and then. Those tanks have ports in them for the leachfield pipes to attach.

There are other systems which simply hold the waste until the tank can be pumped. I've seen those vaults and there are no holes in them except the top for access. Those are the tanks some people use for cisterns. I do not know whether they are considered water-tight. I have read of people using them for water storage as you would but don't know whether they line them.

The benefit of them is, as I see it and after building my own is that they are ready-made, simple, basically indestructible, easy to install, and probably basically water-tight.
 

volleyball

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I collect the water from the dehumidifier and A/C to water plants. Other than that, There is too much water.
 
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RiceD

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I have never had a septic system. I do know that there are different types, those which allow the waste to settle and then the liquid is distributed out through pipes into the field. You then have the settled solids pumped out now and then. Those tanks have ports in them for the leachfield pipes to attach.

There are other systems which simply hold the waste until the tank can be pumped. I've seen those vaults and there are no holes in them except the top for access. Those are the tanks some people use for cisterns. I do not know whether they are considered water-tight. I have read of people using them for water storage as you would but don't know whether they line them.

The benefit of them is, as I see it and after building my own is that they are ready-made, simple, basically indestructible, easy to install, and probably basically water-tight.

Cool. Will keep it in mind. A good idea!
 

48RON54

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The objection to rainwater harvesting usually comes down to water rights. Theoretically, someone else has the legal right to the water that falls on your property (after it flows into a river or through an aquifer).

I am bamfoozled that someone would own the water that falls from the sky.....
 

Modern Jess

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I am bamfoozled that someone would own the water that falls from the sky.....

IANAL, but my impression from casual reading is that they don't so much own the water that falls from the sky, but they have rights to the water at some downstream outlet (generally a river or an aquifer). The problem arises when some petty bureaucrat makes the mostly-errouneous assumption that harvesting rainwater diverts flow from that downstream outlet and therefore infringes on the holder of the water rights. This is faulty thinking for two reasons: (1) the area of collection (generally a roof) is a fraction of the permeable soil in most environments, and (2) most of the water collected will eventually be released (e.g. to water a garden) but at a later date.

The moral of the story is that petty bureaucrats are idiots.
 

oldgoaly

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We have 3 cisterns, yep live on a farm. looked into adding a 4th, code requires a concrete or plastic sealed tank. So instead of spending money on a new one invested in new gutter and leaf guard to keep the birds and leaves out. seems to be working. The small one runs low, but the other two have not.
 

48RON54

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IANAL, but my impression from casual reading is that they don't so much own the water that falls from the sky, but they have rights to the water at some downstream outlet (generally a river or an aquifer). The problem arises when some petty bureaucrat makes the mostly-errouneous assumption that harvesting rainwater diverts flow from that downstream outlet and therefore infringes on the holder of the water rights. This is faulty thinking for two reasons: (1) the area of collection (generally a roof) is a fraction of the permeable soil in most environments, and (2) most of the water collected will eventually be released (e.g. to water a garden) but at a later date.

The moral of the story is that petty bureaucrats are idiots.

It just seems so petty to me. How many people would even be interested in collecting rain water? You have have equipment, maintenance, etc etc.... What impact could the very few people that would do this possibly have on the amount of water collected downstream? The laws of this world drive me crazy sometimes. I suppose I should stop overthinking it lol.
 
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RiceD

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It just seems so petty to me. How many people would even be interested in collecting rain water? You have have equipment, maintenance, etc etc.... What impact could the very few people that would do this possibly have on the amount of water collected downstream? The laws of this world drive me crazy sometimes. I suppose I should stop overthinking it lol.


Nowhere near being a lawyer, but I think most can appreciate the merits of the basic concept of water rights. But I bet too the uneven or misapplication/regulation can get pretty absurd. Sorta funny - Think of it, if everyone collected rain water we couldn't teach 4th graders the water-cycle anymore. Spotted owls would die of thirst.
 
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