Water Sediment Filter

[D45]

Who has installed one?

The previous homeowner had one installed and I like it a lot......traps a lot of particles

However, within the last 3-4 weeks it started slowly leaking from where the canister meets the head and also from the fittings on each side

So, I bought a new one for $25 shipped..........this one is supposedly the 360A version and mines is an older 360 model

The instructions say I need 3/4" compression fittings........will I be able to reuse the current ones or should I replace them also?

Any other tips or trick so make this swap easy?

 

[6768rogues]

You can reuse the fittings if everything fits and the leaks are not from faulty fittings. I have bought other brands and they always included the fittings.

 

[D45]

It seems like the leaks are coming from the threads going into the blue filter head

I just wasn't sure if I would be able to loosen both sides, re-tape the threads, and then tighten the fittings without the compression rings being damaged

 

[crankshaftdan II]

I have had a like version of what you have for many years and have had zero leaks-just change the filter on a regular basis. There is a large rubber "O" ring in the threaded portion which can become compromised if not lubed when filters are changed out. I use a small amount of reg. vaseline and tighten accordingly to mfgr. specs on o ring and threads-makes a good seal!
As far as the new unit install-you might want to use a new brass/copper sleeve on each end of the 3/4" copper pipe, as once one is tightened up they have a tendency to crimp down on the pipe and could cause your leaking problem.
Might want to go to U tube and get a detailed explanation if you are not familar with the install. Good luck and happy clean water!

 

[D45]

I have had a like version of what you have for many years and have had zero leaks-just change the filter on a regular basis. There is a large rubber "O" ring in the threaded portion which can become compromised if not lubed when filters are changed out. I use a small amount of reg. vaseline and tighten accordingly to mfgr. specs on o ring and threads-makes a good seal!
As far as the new unit install-you might want to use a new brass/copper sleeve on each end of the 3/4" copper pipe, as once one is tightened up they have a tendency to crimp down on the pipe and could cause your leaking problem.
Might want to go to U tube and get a detailed explanation if you are not familar with the install. Good luck and happy clean water!

I tried a new 0-ring and used some Vaseline.........still leaks from the threads

What do you mean a new copper sleeve?

 

[930dreamer]

The copper sleeve goes over the copper pipe.

 

[D45]

Oh you are talking about the actual compression sleeve?

 

[matt_i]

I tried a new 0-ring and used some Vaseline.........still leaks from the threads

What do you mean a new copper sleeve?

Imo Oring is likely EPDM for water resistance....any petroleum lube applied will rot the rubber chemically.

You'd need a non-petroleum o-ring lube, one that's safe for potable water use, I have P80 in the shop which fits the first point but I doubt the second. So I don't have a product in mind but I would get rid of the vaseline.

This is the filter I would recommend. It is very heavy duty as far as the housing. I personally don't like the clear plastic bowls because eventually they develop visible crazes and cracks. I get that then you lose the visual ability to diagnose the condition of the filter inside but I'd do some scientific data taking and come up with a time-based schedule.

https://www.aquapurefilters.com/store/product/200299.200288/ap801-c-kit.html

 

[csp]

Shouldn't be using Teflon tape, orings or other band aids on a compression fitting. If they leak it's time to change out the fitting.

 

[Tinkerman66]

You usually can't get those ferrules off the pipe once they have been tightened down. Probably at least need new ones to reuse nut and compression base. I always use a food grade silicone grease on my oring.

 

[Tinkerman66]

Shouldn't be using Teflon tape, orings or other band aids on a compression fitting. If they leak it's time to change out the fitting.

Teflon tape or thread sealer is not a bad idea on install. True it does nothing to seal the joint but helps in tightening to prevent galling and provide a smoother action while tightening.

 

[finn]

Use plumbers grease on the oring. It’s silicone based so it won’t degrade the rubber or the housing.

A small container is cheap, and readily available at any hardware or big bos home store like Menards, etc.

Don’t use conventional pipe dope on plastics, use Teflon tape to seal the threads.

 

[tonyciambrone]

I would recommend Watts filter housings. Clear is kind of neat but I recommend the black or blue. Seems to be a better material than the acrylic.

What others have said about silicone grease is true- but don't go overboard. Just enough to coat the O-Ring.

Thread seal tape is a yes for NPT fittings. Blue Monster is my favorite for plastic and brass.

Best installation includes a metal bracket that the cap of the unit mounts to. You will risk bending pipes and cracking the female fittings when tightening/ loosening.

You need to get a plastic sump wrench for proper tightening if you don't have one already.

 

[firebirdparts]

In that situation, installing that new filter, I always try to use compression fittings again. The reason I do that is it might work. If they don't seal, you'll have to extend one of those pipes, which is a lot more trouble.

 

[sreeb]

It seems like the leaks are coming from the threads going into the blue filter head

I just wasn't sure if I would be able to loosen both sides, re-tape the threads, and then tighten the fittings without the compression rings being damaged

You probably can.

 

[csp]

Teflon tape or thread sealer is not a bad idea on install. True it does nothing to seal the joint but helps in tightening to prevent galling and provide a smoother action while tightening.

This is true, but it amazes me how many folks are telling the OP to use tape on the threads to correct a leak with compression fittings.

Some folks either don't read or just shouldn't give advice on the internet.

 

[log man]

There is a natural vegetable-based alternative out there for Vaseline or silicone lubes called Nutroleum. I knew the guy who developed it. That’s what I’d use on the o-rings.

 

[Tinkerman66]

This is true, but it amazes me how many folks are telling the OP to use tape on the threads to correct a leak with compression fittings.

Some folks either don't read or just shouldn't give advice on the internet.

I went back to read three times and see no one suggesting that.

 

[rburke65]

Tinkerman66......that is exactly my thought.

 

[Tim Kennedy]

tonyciambrone:
The plastic sump wrench is for removing the sump --- don't use it to tighten the sump -- use silicone to lube the o-ring & the threads of the sump & then tighten the sump by hand. I have seen them tightened so bad we have had to use 2 foot pipe wrenches & a rubber mallet to get them loose

 

[tonyciambrone]

tonyciambrone:
The plastic sump wrench is for removing the sump --- don't use it to tighten the sump -- use silicone to lube the o-ring & the threads of the sump & then tighten the sump by hand. I have seen them tightened so bad we have had to use 2 foot pipe wrenches & a rubber mallet to get them loose

This is kind of like saying don't use a wrench to tighten a drain plug. Every mechanic has had to cheater bar or impact out a drain plug. Not every holly homeowner has strength enough to seal that o-ring by hand...

 

[finn]

This is true, but it amazes me how many folks are telling the OP to use tape on the threads to correct a leak with compression fittings.

Some folks either don't read or just shouldn't give advice on the internet.

The threads in the plastic housing are female npt

He said that’s where he thinks the assembly is leaking.

Teflon tape would be the correct seal, applied to the male npt fitting..

I didn’t see anyone recommending Teflon tape on the brass ferrule. Those would be a dry seal...no sealant or tape.

 

[finn]

tonyciambrone:
The plastic sump wrench is for removing the sump --- don't use it to tighten the sump -- use silicone to lube the o-ring & the threads of the sump & then tighten the sump by hand. I have seen them tightened so bad we have had to use 2 foot pipe wrenches & a rubber mallet to get them loose

Typically these things become difficult to remove because the oring seal swells after installation, particularly if a petroleum based lubricant is used.

The oring swells, causing grove overfill, and high torque to loosen the housing.

Yes, people tend to do the “ if tight is good, then tighter is better” route too.

 

[firebirdparts]

This is true, but it amazes me how many folks are telling the OP to use tape on the threads to correct a leak with compression fittings.

Some folks either don't read .........

That would be you in this instance. Your amazement was wasted on the huge number of people (zero) who suggested this in a one page thread.

 

[D45]

The fittings are slowly leaking at the threads, going into the blue head

I do see some tape, but not sure how much is there or how much is threaded into the blue head

 

[woodvice]

I serviced water filters for 15 years on my last job. I have seen that sort of leaking a lot on filters.

The problem is mostly due to the difficulty of getting and keeping a water tight seal at that joint. When the filter is serviced, the pipe fitting to filter joint is the "second wrench" that holds the filter head steady as you wrench off the sump. Over time the joint loosens. The plastic of the head yields to the much harder metal fitting. Retaping and retightening will work only until it fails again.

I always used filter assemblies that had provisions for a sturdy separate metal bracket. The bracket could then be attached to a solid surface. I also liked to have flexible pipes between the filter and the plumbing run. All of this will reduce the strain on the plumbing joints when servicing.

John

 

[D45]

Maybe I should look into the optional mount........good info, thanks

http://www.truevalue.com/product/Water-Filter-Mounting-Bracket-for-HF-150A-or-HF-360/11686.uts

I can probably use one, and just cut and nail in a 2x4 between the joists

 

[D45]

tonyciambrone:
The plastic sump wrench is for removing the sump --- don't use it to tighten the sump -- use silicone to lube the o-ring & the threads of the sump & then tighten the sump by hand. I have seen them tightened so bad we have had to use 2 foot pipe wrenches & a rubber mallet to get them loose

Great info, thanks.........I thought I had to use the wrench to tighten it also

I will get some plumbers grease and take it all apart

 

[tonyciambrone]

Also I don't know where your nearest shutoff valves are but, if you are already going to add the bracket, and replace fittings I would install a ball valve on the inlet and outlet. With both shut it makes changing the filter that much more convenient, and might save your **** if it ever springs a serious leak.

 

[Junkman]

I haven't had a filter like that for many years, however, when I did, I used K-Y jelly to lubricate the O ring. It is water soluble, doesn't effect the rubber, and it doesn't promote fungus or mold. To digress, I have also used it to get automotive heater hoses onto the heater core *******. It is also great for getting radiator hoses onto the radiator.

 

[Tim Kennedy]

Forgot to add to the difficulty of removing the sump -- if there is a red button on top of the housing -- make sure the water is turned off & press it -- to relieve the pressure --- the pressure alone will make it tough to remove. One of the biggest problems from a design stand point is there are very few sumps that have a drain in the bottom -- when even a 4x10 sump is full of water & you are trying to loosen it -- it's hard to do --- try spinning a 4x20 big white housing off loaded with water + a filter cartridge that's filled with rust & trying not to make a mess in a customers home -- no way can it be done without spilling at least some water -- wish they all had a drain provision. As far as most homeowners not having the strength to tighten it by hand so as not to leak -- sorry not buying that one either -- it really doesn't take a whole lot to snug them. Some times there is a defect somewhere in the manufacturing process that causes a leak, but that's pretty rare.

 

[66cj225]

Its kind of a lost art with all the plastic piped systems but if it were mine.... we'd be looking at a copper bond wire from one side to the other. Installed before an electric water heater?

 

[larry4406]

My last houses I mounted the filter above the slop sink in the mechanical room. Slop sink was plumbed with unfiltered cold. During filter change out, water dumped neatly to the sink below and I had water to clean the bowl/sump. I used 1/4 turn ball valves before and after filter. I also had a purge line on the outlet to flush the new filter to the sink before letting it go to the rest of the house. I still need to do this st my current home.

 

[tonyciambrone]

Forgot to add to the difficulty of removing the sump -- if there is a red button on top of the housing -- make sure the water is turned off & press it -- to relieve the pressure --- the pressure alone will make it tough to remove. One of the biggest problems from a design stand point is there are very few sumps that have a drain in the bottom -- when even a 4x10 sump is full of water & you are trying to loosen it -- it's hard to do --- try spinning a 4x20 big white housing off loaded with water + a filter cartridge that's filled with rust & trying not to make a mess in a customers home -- no way can it be done without spilling at least some water -- wish they all had a drain provision. As far as most homeowners not having the strength to tighten it by hand so as not to leak -- sorry not buying that one either -- it really doesn't take a whole lot to snug them. Some times there is a defect somewhere in the manufacturing process that causes a leak, but that's pretty rare.

I guess we agree to disagree. Shut the inlet, open a faucet, shut the discharge, remove housing with a bucket underneath. No pressure, no backflow, no mess.

https://www.servapure.com/10-Big-Bl...MI8Yf4ppKI2gIVW7bACh07-AikEAQYAyABEgJDv_D_BwE

There's an example of a complete singe cartridge system. Pressure gauges on the inlet and outlet let you get the differential pressure to know when to change filters.

 

[crankshaftdan II]

The copper sleeve goes over the copper pipe.

Oh you are talking about the actual compression sleeve?

Imo Oring is likely EPDM for water resistance....any petroleum lube applied will rot the rubber chemically.

You'd need a non-petroleum o-ring lube, one that's safe for potable water use, I have P80 in the shop which fits the first point but I doubt the second. So I don't have a product in mind but I would get rid of the vaseline.

This is the filter I would recommend. It is very heavy duty as far as the housing. I personally don't like the clear plastic bowls because eventually they develop visible crazes and cracks. I get that then you lose the visual ability to diagnose the condition of the filter inside but I'd do some scientific data taking and come up with a time-based schedule.

https://www.aquapurefilters.com/store/product/200299.200288/ap801-c-kit.html

Shouldn't be using Teflon tape, orings or other band aids on a compression fitting. If they leak it's time to change out the fitting.

You usually can't get those ferrules off the pipe once they have been tightened down. Probably at least need new ones to reuse nut and compression base. I always use a food grade silicone grease on my oring.

Use plumbers grease on the oring. It’s silicone based so it won’t degrade the rubber or the housing.

A small container is cheap, and readily available at any hardware or big bos home store like Menards, etc.

Don’t use conventional pipe dope on plastics, use Teflon tape to seal the threads.

I would recommend Watts filter housings. Clear is kind of neat but I recommend the black or blue. Seems to be a better material than the acrylic.

What others have said about silicone grease is true- but don't go overboard. Just enough to coat the O-Ring.

Thread seal tape is a yes for NPT fittings. Blue Monster is my favorite for plastic and brass.

Best installation includes a metal bracket that the cap of the unit mounts to. You will risk bending pipes and cracking the female fittings when tightening/ loosening.

You need to get a plastic sump wrench for proper tightening if you don't have one already.

This is true, but it amazes me how many folks are telling the OP to use tape on the threads to correct a leak with compression fittings.

Some folks either don't read or just shouldn't give advice on the internet.

The fittings are slowly leaking at the threads, going into the blue head

I do see some tape, but not sure how much is there or how much is threaded into the blue head

I serviced water filters for 15 years on my last job. I have seen that sort of leaking a lot on filters.

The problem is mostly due to the difficulty of getting and keeping a water tight seal at that joint. When the filter is serviced, the pipe fitting to filter joint is the "second wrench" that holds the filter head steady as you wrench off the sump. Over time the joint loosens. The plastic of the head yields to the much harder metal fitting. Retaping and retightening will work only until it fails again.

I always used filter assemblies that had provisions for a sturdy separate metal bracket. The bracket could then be attached to a solid surface. I also liked to have flexible pipes between the filter and the plumbing run. All of this will reduce the strain on the plumbing joints when servicing.

John

Also I don't know where your nearest shutoff valves are but, if you are already going to add the bracket, and replace fittings I would install a ball valve on the inlet and outlet. With both shut it makes changing the filter that much more convenient, and might save your **** if it ever springs a serious leak.

Its kind of a lost art with all the plastic piped systems but if it were mine.... we'd be looking at a copper bond wire from one side to the other. Installed before an electric water heater?

Think that I will bow out on the advise issue here for the existing and the new unit as well! I have Multiple quoted several of the answers received as useful info on how to accomplish your goal. I DISAGREE on the silicone grease as a lube as it will work it's way into the water system and is not conducive for potable water systems-use it for sealing gutters or other outside applications-work great for that. Usage of plumbers grease or others mentioned will work OK. Just my two cents worth-good luck with the project and keep us posted-inquiring minds like to know how things get accomplished!!

 

[Tim Kennedy]

crankshaftdanII:
You disagree that using silicone grease is not conducive to potable water systems & then say use it for sealing gutters or other apps. I think you are confusing two different items --- silicone -- with an e -- is more than safe with potable water --- all the manufacturers valves that I have serviced recommend it for valve assembly -- the amount used is minimal. Silicon -- no e -- as in silicon sealant -- should never be used in valve assembly or on o-rings as a sealant.

 

[Tinkerman66]

DISAGREE all you want. I use silicone grease. Recommended for my filter in the manual. Works great.

A quick search...

Hercules Plumbers Silicone Grease is a superior product that lubricates and prevents corrosion on valve stems, faucets, ballcock linkages, and other places where waterproof grease is needed. When applied to rubber and synthetic O-rings, insures free movement and extended service life of faucets.

 

[D45]

I bought a small can of Hercules grease...........I will give it a try

Hopefully installing the new filter kit tomorrow

 

[D45]

The support bracket arrived and it is beefy, looks like it will be a nice addition to the new kit

 

[tonyciambrone]

Doesn't really matter what your particular grease, lubricant, sealant etc is called.

What matters is it being NSF61 approved or equivalent for potable water. I guess I should have clarified, I am not saying throw SilGlyde Brake lubricant or Silicone caulk on it.

http://www.clearcoproducts.com/silicone-greases-compounds-nsf-61.html

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007WTW668/?tag=atomicindus08-20

A water treater I know told me at a particular hospital, he saw a pipefitter using plane jane plumber's grease on a system for Dialysis. He scolded the plumber and basically got a shoulder shrug. He confronted the hospital and got the same. He gave away the account and never went back.

The stakes are lower for drinking water since it is not being mainlined to your bloodstream essentially, but, you cannot just assume since it says plumber's grease on the can that is A-OK for any water application.