Tennessee Cattleman
Well-known member
The best coarse of action is to figure out what Dad has in mind on the type, brand and capabilities of his future welder. Welders are to expensive to guess at.
Welder purchase advice? đź‘Ť
- Thread starter Boostingaz
- Start date
quickfarms
Well-known member
That’s because you did the stick welding certification
FCAW is a different certification
According to one of the inspectors I know he sees far more FCAW than stick on the work he is inspecting
speed bump
Well-known member
What kind of welding do you do? Literally every contractor who shows up at our mine has at least one suitcase loaded up with flux core wire. Most of the ironworkers I know are burning wire and a decent chunk of the pipeliners are to. In the 12 years I have been in industry there has been a incredible shift towards FCAW over stick. GMAW only gets used where they do a lot of welding (and wrote a WPS for it) or you don't follow AWS D1.1 guidelines for that work. For everything else you run dual shield indoors.
All of that ignores this is for the home gamer where the welder likely won't travel and it doesn't matter. For the original question a Miller 211 setup for GMAW is ideal but I'd still keep a spool of 0.35 FCAW wire around for outside work on 110v.
As with most people here, I'm a hobby guy in the garage doing fabrication on my own stuff when it comes to welding. I also have a couple little spools of flux core wire around for those odd ball things too, pretty typical.
Out in the world though, I can't think of a single time I have seen someone using flux core EXCEPT the home guy with a 120v little $200 wire glue gun. Mind you, it's been close to 15 years since I did an 8 month stint in a steel mill (doing process work, not fab/maint) or anywhere else that is heavy industry. The rest I've seen is just steel frame buildings going up, most guys running stick right off the engine driven welders.
Regardless of where flux core is used in industry though, for pretty much anyone at home it's the LAST process I'd recommend starting with. I can't actually think of a useful scenario for it other than running out of gas...I'd just throw my welding cart on my trailer, bottle and all if I had to go somewhere to do something.
IndyGarage
Well-known member
Well it seems you have your answer. I have a 211 as well and love it. Haven't touched my bigger machine since I got it.
I would also say the Hobart units are cheaper with fewer features but still very good. Lincoln makes good stuff too.
I would also say the Hobart units are cheaper with fewer features but still very good. Lincoln makes good stuff too.
quickfarms
Well-known member
I have been welding for over 30 years. I started at a night trade school, passing both semesters meant that I was certified to weld structural, pipeline and in nuclear power plants. I was proficient at stick and GMAW and a torch.
When I graduated stick was the king in the field and GMAW in the shop. A lot has changed since then
After graduating I bought the first small Lincoln wire feeder SP135T, in 220v, that was delivered in Southern California.
From then on my preferred method has be FCAW. Using FCAW for decades I have developed a preference for Lincoln wire.
All of my welding is done outside
Anyone who says FCAW is useless or dirty has not learned to master the process
The reasons I am not a big fan of GMAW for anything thicker than sheet metal is several fold. First GMAW requires higher amperage than FCAW. Second GMAW does not have as good a penetration as FCAW. Third you have to drag around the bottle, regulator and hose with the added expense and trips to the welding supply store. Fourth is the issues with using GMAW outside where I do all of my welding,
My frustration with GMAW is I don’t have the time to practice and can weld using FCAW without even thinking about it.
On job sites most every engine driven welder is connected to an LN25 feeding flux core wire. Stick is only used if it is just a little welding or the appropriate wire is not available.
At the shop is use a pair of lincoln 216’s in the field it is either the SP135T or the LN 25 hooked up to the SA200
When I graduated stick was the king in the field and GMAW in the shop. A lot has changed since then
After graduating I bought the first small Lincoln wire feeder SP135T, in 220v, that was delivered in Southern California.
From then on my preferred method has be FCAW. Using FCAW for decades I have developed a preference for Lincoln wire.
All of my welding is done outside
Anyone who says FCAW is useless or dirty has not learned to master the process
The reasons I am not a big fan of GMAW for anything thicker than sheet metal is several fold. First GMAW requires higher amperage than FCAW. Second GMAW does not have as good a penetration as FCAW. Third you have to drag around the bottle, regulator and hose with the added expense and trips to the welding supply store. Fourth is the issues with using GMAW outside where I do all of my welding,
My frustration with GMAW is I don’t have the time to practice and can weld using FCAW without even thinking about it.
On job sites most every engine driven welder is connected to an LN25 feeding flux core wire. Stick is only used if it is just a little welding or the appropriate wire is not available.
At the shop is use a pair of lincoln 216’s in the field it is either the SP135T or the LN 25 hooked up to the SA200
To be fair, that sounds like a lot of personal preference and working within your constraints, experience, and machine. Not necessarily a good recommendation for pretty much anyone else.
Besides, most home shop people aren't going to be welding beyond 1/4" plate almost ever and even a 180 amp machine can do that no problem with plenty of penetration on C25...making it a moot point about higher amperage or penetration. The cost and trips to welding store, someone would have to do the math, but factor in wire vs gas cost and then time to clean up the flux core welds afterwards...maybe a wash? Hard to say...but the dragging around a bottle and such on a welding cart, no biggy (just put bigger tires on if you drag it outside lol). Around the fourth point, yup, FCAW will work better in windy conditions (as will stick) but I agree that any self shielding process is going to be superior in those circumstances.
Bright side is, if the OP gets a Miller 211...it supports both processes
Personally, I'd prefer Blue, tan then red.
Blue is slightly out of my price range. Nothing wrong with red especially an old tombstone welder.
I had a Hobart 175, sold it and replaced it with an Ironman 230. The 230 has been replaced by Hobart with the Ironman 240. The newer 240 is an updated version .
Unfortunately, they use different spool guns if you want that option. You could check your local TSC, if have one around, to see if they have any Ironman 230 as old stock.
Blue is slightly out of my price range. Nothing wrong with red especially an old tombstone welder.
I had a Hobart 175, sold it and replaced it with an Ironman 230. The 230 has been replaced by Hobart with the Ironman 240. The newer 240 is an updated version .
Unfortunately, they use different spool guns if you want that option. You could check your local TSC, if have one around, to see if they have any Ironman 230 as old stock.
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OP
Boostingaz
Well-known member
I can't thank everyone enough for the dialog and the suggestions and advice here. I think I am going to search for a Miller 211 for Dad. That's seems like a good "all around machine". Worst case, he doesn't like it (which won't happen), I'll just buy it from him. He is a quick study and can literally pick anything up. It's to the point where it's slightly annoying haha. He is a jack of all trades and a master of all of them! 
For years he has talked about welding being the only skill he doesn't have. So between my mom and my brother, damn it, we are going to make it happen for pops!
He's retired and only still has two jobs for fun. I have never seen my Dad sit still and would be quite honestly scared to lol.
For years he has talked about welding being the only skill he doesn't have. So between my mom and my brother, damn it, we are going to make it happen for pops!
He's retired and only still has two jobs for fun. I have never seen my Dad sit still and would be quite honestly scared to lol.
OP
Boostingaz
Well-known member
My Dad will read the brochure that comes with the machine and then say: "Hey guys come check this out" and there will be a freaking rocket in the garage lol
I can't thank everyone enough for the dialog and the suggestions and advice here. I think I am going to search for a Miller 211 for Dad. That's seems like a good "all around machine". Worst case, he doesn't like it (which won't happen), I'll just buy it from him. He is a quick study and can literally pick anything up. It's to the point where it's slightly annoying haha. He is a jack of all trades and a master of all of them!
For years he has talked about welding being the only skill he doesn't have. So between my mom and my brother, damn it, we are going to make it happen for pops!
He's retired and only still has two jobs for fun. I have never seen my Dad sit still and would be quite honestly scared to lol.
LoL just wait until he picks up machining (if he hasn't already)
The Miller 211 (or 215, or 220) are all awesome machines and you can't go wrong with any of them or most Miller products in general. Their hoods and gloves and jackets and welding tables and a bunch of other stuff in their kit is quite nice too. The build with blue rebate that was on when I bought my machine also had a further rebate if I bought accessories so I ended up with almost a full Miller kit, quite happy that's the case.
I bought my plasma cutter from Cyberweld. Great to do business with. Check this out.I can't thank everyone enough for the dialog and the suggestions and advice here. I think I am going to search for a Miller 211 for Dad. That's seems like a good "all around machine". Worst case, he doesn't like it (which won't happen), I'll just buy it from him. He is a quick study and can literally pick anything up. It's to the point where it's slightly annoying haha. He is a jack of all trades and a master of all of them!
For years he has talked about welding being the only skill he doesn't have. So between my mom and my brother, damn it, we are going to make it happen for pops!
He's retired and only still has two jobs for fun. I have never seen my Dad sit still and would be quite honestly scared to lol.
Miller Electric MIG Welders | Miller Wire Feed Welders For Sale
Find the perfect Miller electric MIG welder for your welding needs. Shop a wide selection of Miller wire feed welders for unmatched precision and quality.
store.cyberweld.com
OP
Boostingaz
Well-known member
I bought my plasma cutter from Cyberweld. Great to do business with. Check this out.
Miller Electric MIG Welders | Miller Wire Feed Welders For Sale
Find the perfect Miller electric MIG welder for your welding needs. Shop a wide selection of Miller wire feed welders for unmatched precision and quality.
I need to see what my buddies discount actually is at the local supply house to see what I'm up against. I will definitely check this out as well. Thanks!!
quickfarms
Well-known member
The blue or red debate is like ford or Chevy.
Both make good machines, and both have there own off brand, I prefer red welders and blue plasma cutters.
I would look at the local welding supply places to see what they stock consumables for, but with the internet that is not as big a deal anymore
Both make good machines, and both have there own off brand, I prefer red welders and blue plasma cutters.
I would look at the local welding supply places to see what they stock consumables for, but with the internet that is not as big a deal anymore
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Accessories might ruin your budget !
ZRX61
Well-known member
No, you didn't read what I said. I said "I did the structural welding cert class".. It's the class that deals with the welding code. was there some FCAW? sure, was anyone tested on it? nope.
I bought an MVP 2 years ago at tractor supply for $750. It looks like they go for around $1,100 now. My buddy has one as well. Very good unit. Stick with a big name so you will always have parts available.
OP
Boostingaz
Well-known member
Terra Nova
Well-known member
Not to derail the thread but how do you like the 240? I have a 187 handler that has been a fantastic welder but looking for something with more top end. How do you find the “run in” feature? Have read conflicting reviews with some pretty strong negative opinions of it.
MJK
Well-known member
A Miller 211 is an excellent choice IMO.
If you are going to ruin the budget, get him a gas bottle of C25 and a nice helmet. He'll be ready to rip from Day 1.
If you are going to ruin the budget, get him a gas bottle of C25 and a nice helmet. He'll be ready to rip from Day 1.
You'll be quite happy with the 211, When I was giving the prices earlier about the HF Migmax 215 that was more to allow you to stay in the $2k budget with everything else you'll need.
As for the flux core, most if not all are talking about the self shielded stuff. like most everyone else I have a 2lb roll of FCAW-S (self shielded) on hand incase I need to weld out in the wind. That is about the only reason I ever even want to get it out to use. Most FCAW-S wires are not rated for multipass welds but I would recommend keeping a little on hand.
I keep a 10lb roll of Lincoln FCAW-G E71-T wire that I really like to run when I have out of position welding to do on 1/4" or thicker plate.
This stuff is great, the flux freezes fast to hold the weld pool until it solidifies. I've only used 0.035" in my 211 and dad's Migmax 215. At work I use 0.045" in those welders. This wire does require shielding gas just like solid wire and I wouldn't spend the money on it right away, only if you find yourself welding vertical up and overhead on 1/4" on up plate on a regular basis.
As for the flux core, most if not all are talking about the self shielded stuff. like most everyone else I have a 2lb roll of FCAW-S (self shielded) on hand incase I need to weld out in the wind. That is about the only reason I ever even want to get it out to use. Most FCAW-S wires are not rated for multipass welds but I would recommend keeping a little on hand.
I keep a 10lb roll of Lincoln FCAW-G E71-T wire that I really like to run when I have out of position welding to do on 1/4" or thicker plate.
This stuff is great, the flux freezes fast to hold the weld pool until it solidifies. I've only used 0.035" in my 211 and dad's Migmax 215. At work I use 0.045" in those welders. This wire does require shielding gas just like solid wire and I wouldn't spend the money on it right away, only if you find yourself welding vertical up and overhead on 1/4" on up plate on a regular basis.
OP
Boostingaz
Well-known member
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
My 211 will run 110 or 220. I've been welding handrails and deck panels (14-18 gauge, some heavier clips and closures) all summer at my cabin on 110v without any issues. I do have a 50' #6-50 extension cord but, don't have a 220v outlet in the garage. I run it on 220 at my house in PHX, but I honestly can't tell the difference.
Most of what I'm running is 1/8" and under, but I did run some 1/4" just to see how it did on 110V. No issues, but I didn't weld long enough for the duty cycle to become a factor.
Oh, and I'm using a #12 110V extension cord off a 20 AMP GFCI outlet (the 211 cord is #14.) Haven't popped the GFCI or the breaker yet.
Tomorrow I'm putting up my neighbors deck rails, will be tacking the stair panels together in place. I'll use my old Lincoln 135 wire feed running .035 flux core on 110v- (he has a standard outdoor GFCI outlet on the porch). then take the tacked up sections back to the shop and finish welding them up/ install the balusters with my 211 running MIG., again on 110V
So tell me again why I shouldn't bu a welder that will run on 110V?
Aaron_W
Well-known member
I can't thank everyone enough for the dialog and the suggestions and advice here. I think I am going to search for a Miller 211 for Dad. That's seems like a good "all around machine". Worst case, he doesn't like it (which won't happen), I'll just buy it from him. He is a quick study and can literally pick anything up. It's to the point where it's slightly annoying haha. He is a jack of all trades and a master of all of them!
For years he has talked about welding being the only skill he doesn't have. So between my mom and my brother, damn it, we are going to make it happen for pops!
He's retired and only still has two jobs for fun. I have never seen my Dad sit still and would be quite honestly scared to lol.
I finally took a welding class in 2018, and bought a welder in 2019. I wish I had done it sooner. I don't do a ton of welding, but now having had one available, I'd hate to go back to not having one. It is such a useful skill.
If your dad will Youtube there is a youtuber Welding Tips and Tricks that is excellent. He covers a wide variety of techniques and is very easy to follow.
I need to see what my buddies discount actually is at the local supply house to see what I'm up against. I will definitely check this out as well. Thanks!!
If you can get a deal though a local supplier that can pay off long term. I bought my welder from a local shop. They were the same price as the online shops.
They are nice guys so maybe would have treated me the same, but they know I spent $3500 on a welder and supplies with them instead of using them to figure out what I wanted and then buying online. Even though what I buy is just peanuts compared to their commercial customers I get treated like I am just as important as the guys spending thousands with them each month.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I bought my 211 online from Cyberweld. If I had it to do over again I would have bought it from the local welding supply.
Retroman
Well-known member
I bought my 211 from cyberweld because I needed to use paypal with 6 months interest free financing.
I have a 230, not 240. I guess I wasn't clear, Hobart replaced the Ironman 230 model with an updated Ironman 240.
Going back and rereading my post I see where the error was misunderstood. I'm going to fix it.
That link I provided earlier to Cyberweld, gas a promo for Miller Days, including a free helmet and I think $300 worth of Miller products .
Don't just compare welder prices, compare the entire package available.
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Plasma cutters is grey not blue. Hypertherm, not Miller.
The old Miller 375 was a pretty much a rebadged Hypertherm. The Big-3 in welders (Miller, Lincoln, ESAB) also make or have available plasma cutters in their lines, but THE plasma cutter company IMNSHO is Hypertherm.
Powermax
A list of all Hypertherm products, including plasma, waterjet and laser cutting systems, software, kits, torches.
Terra Nova
Well-known member
Gotcha, thanks. Yeah, re-reading your post that makes sense, was wondering how you wound up going from the 230 to the 240.
BigMike782
Well-known member
Millermatic 211 will make Dad VERY happy!
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Clearly correct.Plasma cutters is grey not blue. Hypertherm, not Miller.
The old Miller 375 was a pretty much a rebadged Hypertherm. The Big-3 in welders (Miller, Lincoln, ESAB) also make or have available plasma cutters in their lines, but THE plasma cutter company IMNSHO is Hypertherm.
Powermax
A list of all Hypertherm products, including plasma, waterjet and laser cutting systems, software, kits, torches.www.hypertherm.com
quickfarms
Well-known member
There is a separate certification program for FCAW
quickfarms
Well-known member
Lincoln NR211MP and NR212 are both rated for multi pass
MJK
Well-known member
That is awesome. Wish I could share that with my dad. Enjoy the hell out of it.
driftpin
Well-known member
Poking the year-old bear on this one, I have a Harbor Freight Vulcan Omnipro 220 multi-process welder I bought with my HFT class-action lawsuit payoff. I haven't used the welder much at all, but I needed some welding done on a project car, and an acquaintance we've sold car parts to, volunteered to help us. He was a bit skeptical, "I don't like Harbor Freight welders," he said before beginning to work today, but after a day of steel welding on MIG, he gave the Vulcan Omnipro 220 a solid 
He is a welder. That's his yellow car in the background, it has a GM 62.L, auto transmission, and disc brakes. Last week he was hit by a young vaping female in Orlando FL.
Some pics of the work.
He is a welder. That's his yellow car in the background, it has a GM 62.L, auto transmission, and disc brakes. Last week he was hit by a young vaping female in Orlando FL.Some pics of the work.
Attachments
Wamsutta
Well-known member
I think the most important part is the torch you hold in your hand. I recommend the Lincoln 175L and 250L.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Do those come in Blue?I think the most important part is the torch you hold in your hand. I recommend the Lincoln 175L and 250L.