Well....it's boiling down to a piecemeal construction

[Kevin54]

I just called the contractor that has been blowing me off for the last four months. He said that he has been waiting on the concrete company to give him a price, as their prices are only good for 30 days, and according to a letter he received, the price is going to go up 15%. I told him I don't care about the 15% as it will only add $300+ to the bill.

Now he wants me to buy the materials, and he will do the labor and price it for labor, but he has a material list.

So I think I'm going out of town to my regular concrete guy. I gave him a call, and waiting on him to get back with me. I can tell him the size and thickness over the phone, and he can have me a price tomorrow. And if I have to buy the materials, I may as well build my own walls, then find someone to set them. One thing about our county, no one wants to work, but you mention beer supplied.......

I was seriously trying to avoid doing anything, but it looks like I will be on the phone and doing a shitload of legwork.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

You've been blown off for 4 months and still even talking to the guy?

 

[DMaxRocks]

I have an appointment with a concrete contractor tomorrow to discuss pouring the slab for my shop. I hope I don't run into the same issues you are.

Keep us posted on the outcome.

-Mark

 

[58Yeoman]

I feel your pain, Kevin. Remember back in the fall of '13, I had a deck built by a contractor from Lowe's? I complained, and some peeps on here said I was too picky, etc. Fast forward to last fall, and Lowe's sent out a REAL contractor, who said the deck was a total POS, and would have to be completely redone. I mean, all the way to the ground. If the weather co-operates, they should be here the first week in April.

You just have to hang in there and have patience.

 

[finn]

I have sadly come to the conclusion that most in the trades, contractors specifically, get there because they couldn't hold a "real" corporate job. Actually, I'm starting to see this trend in most small businesses.

Promises, deadlines, commitments mean nothing, and they have no one to hold them accountable.

Say what you like, but I'd rather have an immigrant crew working on my projects. At least they show up when promised, and they are in and out, rather than letting things drag on forever.

 

[Kevin54]

You've been blown off for 4 months and still even talking to the guy?

Like I said in previous postings, I live in the laziest county there is, or at least when it comes to contractors. I have spoken with this contractor a few times over the last four months. A couple times by phone, and a couple of times in his driveway. Knowing that nothing couldn't have been done while the weather was ******, I gave him the time to come up with some prices. So with talking to him today, he has some prices figured, but said he wanted to wait until it was time to break ground due to the 30 day only price on concrete. And he was the one that built the houses down our road, and across the road from me. He does decent work.

But if I have to piece-meal things out and play GC, then I'll do what I can, and really use him for the grunt work. I didn't want to have to mess with drawings, and so on, as far as getting the permits, but it looks like I am going to have to do that also.

Along with all of that ****, I'm limited to a 15' height on the building, but when talking to the Township, the guy told me I could most likely get by with a taller peak height. that is due to my house setting uphill from my detached. As far as to how much I can go, the Township guy didn't have a clue, yet he runs the building regulation side of things.

the last contractor I spoke with said it wouldn't be a problem going with 12' walls, but he wanted to use 2x4's. The other contractor said anything over 10' required 2x6 wall studs. So in my area, you can't even get a straight answer from the ones that are in authority of handling things like that.

So I think this project will give me the opportunity to buy some nw tools. Mainly a framing nailer. If I had the floor and foundation put in, I could have the walls framed in a days time. The trusses, and mainly everything from the top plate on up will have to be farmed out.

Maybe this contractor will come through with a decent floor to peak price, but I'm still going back to the ones that gave me some really decent prices a couple of years back when I built my wife's building and put sidewalks completely around our house. He does fantastic work. The largest part of the build, at least to me, is the blockwork. Once that is done, I can frame at my leisure as far as the walls, doors, windows, then I will have to finalize the roof structure buy hiring someone t do that portion of the build,

So if anyone has any great ideas to save some green, let me know please.

 

[Thumper68]

So if anyone has any great ideas to save some green, let me know please.

Buy a keg and some steaks and put a call out on GJ for a shop building party!!

 

[Kevin54]

I feel your pain, Kevin. Remember back in the fall of '13, I had a deck built by a contractor from Lowe's? I complained, and some peeps on here said I was too picky, etc. Fast forward to last fall, and Lowe's sent out a REAL contractor, who said the deck was a total POS, and would have to be completely redone. I mean, all the way to the ground. If the weather co-operates, they should be here the first week in April.

You just have to hang in there and have patience.

Oh, that ran out last year after things went south.

When I spoke with him on the phone, he stated that materials would amount to approximately $14,000. The other night, I figured the materials and with everything, I came up around $18,000.

So even at an $18,000 price for materials, plus farming some other things out, I figure double the materials for labor. By building some of the framing myself, I can probably get by with 2/3's of the cost of materials or possibly less, if most of the framing is done by myself

All I can wish for is that if anyone is planning to have something built this year, I hope you have waaaaaaay better luck that I have been having

 

[Zeke]

Kevin, how do you build walls, etc. with a bum shoulder? I think you should be the GC on this. You'll know what you're getting and when. You also should be able to figure the amount of concrete and get a direct quote. Tell them what you want and don't want in the mix and how you pay. You should be able to compare your quote to prices in general to see if you're getting any deal.

 

[bczygan]

Kevin,
If you look up your zoning on the zoning map, and then refer to the zoning rules book (Both probably online), you can find all the height and area rules you must follow. Don't count on verbal assurances by the building official.

Usually height is measured from adjacent grade at the building in question. Some places use the lowest adjacent grade, some an average. Some make the height to the peak of roof and some to the midpoint of roof. Some say you also can't exceed the height of the main residence. You need to determine what the measurement rules are.

Hope this helps.

Bill

When do you need us to grab our framing hammers and come on down?

 

[Ben Buck]

Kevin, are there any Amish constuction guys up that way?

You could get the pad laid, and cured.

After that they could have that thing done in a day, with them taking lunch!!!

 

[-Brent-]

Kevin it's not just your county. You know what bugs me? When you try to give folks work and they don't want it. Then, when you finally get someone that wants to work, the other guy (the lazy one) *******. For the life of me, I cannot figure out how 60% of the contractors out there make money.

 

[rweaver]

I don't want to get off track on Kevins problems but I cant believe no one took offense to Finns comments with all the tradesman on this site. Not all tradesman are this way and I for one take offense and I'll take my learned trade over your corp. job any day.

 

[RivennHewn]

I don't want to get off track on Kevins problems but I cant believe no one took offense to Finns comments with all the tradesman on this site. Not all tradesman are this way and I for one take offense and I'll take my learned trade over your corp. job any day.

Really?

Everybody knows that there are a lot of **** contractors out there.

Why get offended when it comes up? It just makes us legit ones look all the better.

 

[Holzarbeiter]

As far as the immigrant comment, if that's what you're offended by:
Out work them and under price them while delivering the same quality work, and providing a cousin who can do the paint and another who drywalls and has his wife there helping move the furniture, and then get back to us telling us that's how you do it... And you're hired.
I bet Kevin will fly you out for the job.

Now that is a bit much.

So illegal, uninsured, un god only knows what is ok?

 

[6768rogues]

My son is a general contractor and could not find good subcontractors to do roofing. Finally he hired a crew of Costa Rican roofers. They show up on time, work hard and get the job done quickly, do great work and don't give him any ****.

 

[CNGsaves]

Kevin, are there any Amish constuction guys up that way?

You could get the pad laid, and cured.

After that they could have that thing done in a day, with them taking lunch!!!

^ ^ ^ This. Make some calls to Pennsylvania and get Amish builders.

Even if you have to pay for couple hotel rooms a couple nights, you'd have quality construction, and reliable timetable/deadline.

 

[TractorJeff]

There should be Amish near him as they are in OHIO also.
As far as immigrants, the Polish seem to be pretty strong in the Greater Chicago area.
The fellow is right as usually they ALL are good workers. Most (NOT ALL) are Legal now as they have held a minimum job somewhere which is what brought them into Cold areas in the first place.
As far as Insurance/Bonded, Well that's a risk you have to be willing to take if you want it done quick and cheap!
PS
I have a bum shoulder and a bad back but can lay out 2"x6"s to air nail into wall frames. Then call up my neighbors to come over to tip them up! All in one Saturday your frame is up! Chances are one will bring his brother/cousin/friend who is a Framer anyways.
Make sure you feed them a nice Lunch! Don't cheap out on just Burgers and Dogs!

 

[volleyball]

Problem with a guy putting up a shingle and is the main worker is that usually he doesn't have the business sense required. Maybe he has a wife who can do this for him but if she has a busy job, lots of kids, or no aptitude either.
So the work may be good but the guy is tough to deal with.
A corporate guy is not usually any smarter other than smart enough to go to college and get a useful degree so he doesn't have to do a lot of manual work.
And lots of high paid CEO's that drive good businesses into the ground.
With the pad of any size, using a pro is worth it. But for walls, if you know how, just hard for you to do, then think new ways to do. Build the walls yourself. Get the trusses ready. Then go rent a crane or even a small excavator to do the heavy lifting. Rent for a day or two and you can put up the structure with maybe 1 or 2 able body helpers.
Job done.

 

[finn]

The last crew I used was Polish guys operating in the Chicago suburbs. Excellent is an understatement.

Previously, (before the recession) the same contractor (different company) used Hispanic roofing crews who were also very good.

I've since relocated to a rural area with generally higher unemployment, and everyone seems to think they can call themselves a tradesman, but the quality and customer service just doesn't seem to be there. They don't communicate, return calls, meet dates, and prices are significantly higher than the immigrant crews I had access to previously.

 

[MagKarl]

If you're willing to put in the effort and want to save the money, then it's time to take on the general contractor role for your project. You don't have to pound a single nail to do the GC job, but you do have to understand the project inside and out.

It's the "shitload of legwork" part of getting something built. It can save you a lot of money, but it takes a lot of effort.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Now he wants me to buy the materials

I think that's a big red flag right there, telling you to drop this guy and find someone else.

 

[volleyball]

If you buy materials, you know there won't be a lien on your job because the contractor did not pay for them. And no down payment because he has no expenses. It is something you have to play by ear.

 

[Cmreschke]

Sure illegals are cheaper, they don't pay TAXES!!!
Back to your regular scheduled program.

 

[theoldwizard1]

One thing about our county, no one wants to work, but you mention beer supplied.......

If you buy the materials and the beer and some steaks and ribs, I'm sure we could have a framing crew of GJ members down there is a week or 2 after the concrete is poured !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Effort

Higher a licensed architect to draw up the plans including materials list. You might even offer him some $$, to do some interim job site inspections to make certina it os being built correctly.

Permits. Should be minimal hassle.

Trenching for utilities.

There has to be some roofer in your county.

 

[finn]

Sure illegals are cheaper, they don't pay TAXES!!!
Back to your regular scheduled program.

The Polish crews I have experience with are legal for sure. Don't know about the others.

As to paying taxes, how about the "cash discount" contractors?

The immigrants are generally all hard workers: none of this showing up at 10, if they feel like it and knocking off at 4 like our entitled "natives."

 

[Kevin54]

The immigrants around here are a seasonal thing for a huge vegetable farm just a few miles from me. they work their way up every year except for the ones that live there year around. The "illegals"....they work over at the local restaurant. It gets busted once in a while, and they deport them back to Mexico, but they have never had to close the restaurant, and have always had a large crowd, and a full staff.

I spoke with my concrete guy this morning, and the shithead is down in Florida. For the last few years, he has been going down to Florida for about 4 months when the work starts dropping off up here. Plus he gets cold. So he is going to be back in three weeks, and he told me that he would like to bid the complete thing. I did tell him that I have one other contractor around here that I am going to speak with, but I will still give him the chance to give me a price. I may call him up before he gets back though, and send him some photo's as to what I am doing, so he can be getting some thoughts in his head about things. Plus he has another worker up here that he said that he can have come by at any time and figure things, so I may have him come and look things over. I want to wait until I speak with the other contractor I called and left a message with, as I don't want two showing up at the same time, and the other I gave a call to and left a message is only about a half a mile from here.

I may or may not have to piece meal things, but my concrete guy.....I know that if I hire him, even if for just the foundation and floor, I can depend on him. Once he is on a job, he sticks to it, and will do things the way I want and all within code. He's been in the business for years.

As a matter of fact, when I built my wife's building, for a large patio about 25x30, a 10x20, for the foundation and floor, and for sidewalks completely around the house, he was $11,000 cheaper than anyone else in our county, and I probably got a better job. There wasn't a day that they were supposed to be here and not show up. And once they started working, they didn't stop except for about 30 minutes for lunch, and when they were ready to leave at the end of the day. So I have a three week wait on him to get back to Ohio, but he can call his coworker and have him here on any day. So at least that is sounding a little promising.

 

[Shadowdog500]

You are so close to the last frost of the year that I'd wait an extra month or month and a half so you don't have to get a winter mix. Or risk spalling if you get a frost.

I waited until early to mid may to have my concrete poured for that reason.

If you have a concrete guy who you know well and know he dies great work, just give the job to him. I don't know how much the other guy would underbid him, but you
will feel like a smuck if the low bidder don't do as good a job as you know your guy will.

Chris

 

[Kevin54]

You are so close to the last frost of the year that I'd wait an extra month or month and a half so you don't have to get a winter mix. Or risk spalling if you get a frost.

I waited until early to mid may to have my concrete poured for that reason.

Chris

By the time everything gets together, it will probably be close to that time anyways. For one, I want to wait until it warms up some so the cost of the concrete comes down a little from having to add the extra chemicals to it.

I'm not in a HUGE hurry, but I want to get in line before other larger jobs come up, and I knew that when we were going into things last year, or the beginning of this year. But 4 months to get a price together for a simple project is just ********. It's only three walls and a roof for the garage addition, and its only three walls and a couple of 24' standard in-stock 4:12 trusses for the bumpout. Nothing hard, and a couple of framers could have it framed in less than a week.

When I added our 24'x24' family room onto the house, I built the walls in one weekend working about 8 hours each day in the garage while it was raining outside. I built them in 12' sections and had all of the window and door openings cut in and the OSB on. I took off a Monday from work to put the floor joist in, and the flooring down. When a coworker got off of work, I loaded the walls onto a car trailer, pulled them around back, and him and I had them set in about two hours.

When I built my garage, my wife and I had three walls framed in one evening after work, but no OSB on them.

So it's not like it's a gigantic huge elaborate job, but like I've said many a time.....I live in the laziest county there is here in Ohio. My neighbor is in the remodeling business, and he never leaves the house on most days except to go to the Moose Lodge and **** down a few beers and sign the books, then back home. Just like the first contractor I spoke with.....all he wanted to talk about was that he thought his wife was running on him because he found out she had texted a guy. I know her, she works in the same place I retired from, and she didn't do anything wrong as she doesn't have time.

So after four or five months, he finally gave me an estimate, but right before he gave it to me, he was telling me about all of his financial problems. All he does is sub out to others that he can get in touch with. And his financial problems come from him not doing anything. Even his wife has complained about him not working. This seems to be the pattern with every contractor in my county.

Just about every time I have had to hire something out, I have had to go out of county to get it done except for drywall. My drywall guy is fantastic, works every day, and even he complains about the local contractors.

 

[Mike-]

I don't want to get off track on Kevins problems but I cant believe no one took offense to Finns comments with all the tradesman on this site. Not all tradesman are this way and I for one take offense and I'll take my learned trade over your corp. job any day.

I find it very offensive! Was just bitting my tongue!
I worked for others for 15years, and recently went on my own.
Very sad to hear

 

[Shadowdog500]

I have sadly come to the conclusion that most in the trades, contractors specifically, get there because they couldn't hold a "real" corporate job. Actually, I'm starting to see this trend in most small businesses.



Promises, deadlines, commitments mean nothing, and they have no one to hold them accountable.



Say what you like, but I'd rather have an immigrant crew working on my projects. At least they show up when promised, and they are in and out, rather than letting things drag on forever.

I never had this problem. I go out and find the best contractor for what I want done. Then I tell him exactly what I want. Then I pay him what he asks without trying to cut his bid down. I have never failed to have a contractor exceed my expectations using this method, and to be quite honest 6 months to a year after I usually don't even remember exactly what it cost.

It always tickles me when someone gets multiple bids, then goes with the lowball bidder, then picks the low ball bid apart to make it even cheaper. Then complains how unreliable the guy is an what ****** work the guy does. This happens a lot.

Chris

 

[jrsulo]

I find it very offensive! Was just bitting my tongue!
I worked for others for 15years, and recently went on my own.
Very sad to hear

Me too !!...Went out on my own 15 years ago,,,,Never sat behind a desk and never will !!!!,,,,,Guess we are just knukle dragging nail pounders in his mind !!!!

 

[Iroc-Z]

Just giving some input but I had good luck on Craigslist getting subs and paying cash. Guy who sided my shop did a great job and all I had to do was supply the material. The guy mainly subs to new home builders but was always looking for work. I just posted the job in "gigs" and my email box was full of people looking for work.

 

[laser3kw]

Guess we are just knukle dragging nail pounding wood butchers in his mind !!

fixed it for you

 

[jrsulo]

fixed it for you

 

[finn]

I find it very offensive! Was just bitting my tongue!
I worked for others for 15years, and recently went on my own.
Very sad to hear

If you return calls, quote fair prices, show up when promised / scheduled, put in a full day, do quality work, clean up the jobsite, and complete the job on time, you shouldn't be offended.

My experience is like Kevin's. Some do but many don't follow the basic rules of business, and unfortunately tarnish the reputation of the industry.

 

[jvitez]

Good luck Kevin! After all the health issues you've dealt with, the least you should be able to do is get a contractor to the work you don't want/can't do. But I feel your pain.

I wanted to hire out drywalling my garage. I called 6 contractors. Three didn't return my call, and for the other three the job was too big or too small. So I did it myself.

And people complain about a lack of work? It should be a lack of work ETHIC actually.

 

[Bruce4310TX]

run away as fast as you can

 

[Ben Buck]

I'm still going with Amish contractors.

I thought the build was 4 walls, roof and whatnot. The Amish would have this done before lunch!!!! with just three walls!!!!!