Well problem

[jjgrappler]

I am having a problem with my well and was wondering if anyone had some insight. Lately I have noticed that my well struggles to maintain pressure when I run more than 2 things at once. We have been at this house for 5 years and just started noticing this a little over a year ago. At first I thought it was just too much for the well but it seems to be getting more finicky now. I just replaced my pressure tank about 6 months ago due to the old one being waterlogged and thought it would fix my problem. It doesn't lose pressure and leak down over time at all so I think that's good. I just replaced a front load washer with a top loader and it seems to give us the most problems filling up the washer. It will run fine and then as it continues to fill it loses pressure and cant keep up with the demand and starts to **** air from the well losing water in the system. Shutting the supply to the house and allowing it to fill the pressure tank lets it build pressure and straighten its self out. I am wondering if my pressure switch is bad, the copper line to the pressure switch is clogged, or a restriction in my copper pipes. There is a lot of discoloration on the copper that would indicate potential pinhole leaks. When I replaced the pressure tank the black steel was almost rusted shut due to the corrosion. Any help is appreciated, thanks.

 

[joe_padavano]

Check your pressure switch, and especially the short ****** that the pressure switch sits on. If the ****** is steel, it can corrode inside and get plugged. The pressure switch won't see the drop in pressure, and thus your water pressure is too low. I've had exactly this problem with my well.

 

[Richard Cranium]

check the pressure in the tank when it is empty, it should be with in 1 lbs of the kick on pressure of your pump. If it is too high the tank will run out of water before the pump kicks on.

 

[oldtractors]

What kind of pump do you have? I have a deep well jet pump and I have had to relearn a lot of what I thought I knew. I have fairly low pressure and flow and that is normal.

 

[couch67]

Joe's check will be an easy one and hopefully the solution, but if not I suspect it is with the pump or water level.

Based on your first post, the system is not leaking when everything is off. This assumes the foot valve is ok as well.

if your system is demanding water and you know your pump is on, and you are not getting the water flow/pressure you would expect, your problem likely is with the water level in the well, or a near failing pump.

If you have a well cap, take a look inside and see how far the water table is. You can measure the water level with a rope and a float easy enough.

 

[jjgrappler]

Here's the problem I have, I have a jet pump located inside my basement. I cannot find my well cap. I don't have one sticking out of the ground and I've been unsuccessfully in finding it.

 

[couch67]

Maybe you could disconnect the supply pipe from the well, and feed a tracer line through it as far as you can go. Then you could find the line location outside by using the appropriate scanning tool.

Something like this, there may be other types. I imagine you can rent this stuff somewhere.

https://www.ridgid.com/ca/en/remote-transmitter

 

[Bretny]

You dont have a clogged or dirty whole house filter do you. Mine slows when there over due to be changed.

Short of finding your static water level in your well when the problem happens i wouldnt go replacing many expensive parts. The ****** on the pressure switch is a good idea like said above.

 

[yeldogt]

If the pump is pumping and you start to loose pressure and flow -- it has to be the pump or the water level .. correct?

If you had a leak -- it would not hold pressure. Symptoms of a bad pump are lower flow -- but air seems to be getting in ...how else vs the water level in the well dropping?

 

[jjgrappler]

You dont have a clogged or dirty whole house filter do you. Mine slows when there over due to be changed.

Short of finding your static water level in your well when the problem happens i wouldnt go replacing many expensive parts. The ****** on the pressure switch is a good idea like said above.

No I have no filters currently in the system. I am going to be replumbing the house with PEX and utilizing a whole house filter in the near future.

 

[Jackfre]

My electric bill doubled a couple years ago, just out of the blue. I checked every thing that I could see, but the well is kinda outs sight, outa mind. After nothing else figured I went out to the well and watched the gauge. It would pump up to 60#, the pump would shut off and the pressure would drop. I pulled the pump and the foot valve ****** had a 1/4" hole in it. Replaced the ******, reinstalled the pump and the entire system operated better. Much better in the house. Another thing, when my well guy was out he replaced the gauge with an oil filled gauge. The existing vs the new gauge were off by 15#. Get a new oil filled gauge. It sounds like our problems are similar.

 

[jjgrappler]

I'm not losing pressure when it's off. I dont think it's my water level either because once I shut off the second fixture the pressure evens out and maintains pressure. I am hoping it's the pressure switch

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[Boilerhouse]

Does your jet pump have two lines which come from the well (i.e. a deep well jet pump for well depths 25 to 100 ft deep), ....
or does it have a single line coming from the well (i.e. a shallow well jet pump for well depths <25 ft deep).

A deep well jet pump should have a foot valve and an injector inside the well, either or both could require maintenance or replacement.

A shallow well jet pump should have a foot valve only.

It does not sound like a pressure switch issue to me, as this is simply a glorified on/off switch and in this case the switch is on, the pump is running as it should and yet the pump cannot maintain pressure under certain circumstances. Beyond that, I don't know what advise to offer.

You should hire a locate service to determine the well location. Sooner or later you will need to do system maintenance on it.

It is always very helpful to know the overall well depth, the water surface depth, how much the well drops when the pump is in service (15 minute full flow drop test), and how long it takes to recover. This can pin point whether the problem is well related, or equipment related.

In my case, the well was 80 ft deep, the surface was at 50 ft, and the water level did not drop a single inch when all faucets were opened to create a full flow condition, indicating the well provides more water than the pump can handle.

I also removed my two line deep well jet pump. and installed a submersible well pump. I used one line as the water supply, and the 2nd line as an electrical conduit. This eliminated a lot of issues for me.

 

[Jackfre]

AS you describe it, it could also be a bad pressure tank. If the bladder is perforated the pressure cannot be regulated.

 

[Boilerhouse]

AS you describe it, it could also be a bad pressure tank. If the bladder is perforated the pressure cannot be regulated.

Certainly possible. but in my experience, when the bladder is breached and the pressure tank is effectively waterlogged, a demand on the system causes the pump to rapidly cycle on and off and continue doing so, even for several minutes, until pressure is eventually satisfied.

 

[jjgrappler]

AS you describe it, it could also be a bad pressure tank. If the bladder is perforated the pressure cannot be regulated.

I just replaced the pressure tank not even a year ago

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[jjgrappler]

Does your jet pump have two lines which come from the well (i.e. a deep well jet pump for well depths 25 to 100 ft deep), ....
or does it have a single line coming from the well (i.e. a shallow well jet pump for well depths <25 ft deep).

A deep well jet pump should have a foot valve and an injector inside the well, either or both could require maintenance or replacement.

A shallow well jet pump should have a foot valve only.

It does not sound like a pressure switch issue to me, as this is simply a glorified on/off switch and in this case the switch is on, the pump is running as it should and yet the pump cannot maintain pressure under certain circumstances. Beyond that, I don't know what advise to offer.

You should hire a locate service to determine the well location. Sooner or later you will need to do system maintenance on it.

It is always very helpful to know the overall well depth, the water surface depth, how much the well drops when the pump is in service (15 minute full flow drop test), and how long it takes to recover. This can pin point whether the problem is well related, or equipment related.

In my case, the well was 80 ft deep, the surface was at 50 ft, and the water level did not drop a single inch when all faucets were opened to create a full flow condition, indicating the well provides more water than the pump can handle.

I also removed my two line deep well jet pump. and installed a submersible well pump. I used one line as the water supply, and the 2nd line as an electrical conduit. This eliminated a lot of issues for me.

I have two lines coming in to the pump in the basement

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[Bretny]

I just replaced the pressure tank not even a year ago

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That dosnt mean its good. Check all the easy stuff like someone said.

 

[Boilerhouse]

Unfortunately some of the easy stuff to check is not so easy in this case. Foot valve, and injector/housing would be near the top of my list given the conditions but that also calls for locating and accessing the well. A worn/clogged pump impeller is a possibility.

 

[TractorJeff]

If turning off one water user in the house seems to straighten out the issue. I would guesstimate clogged lines in the house

 

[Fierljeppen]

I am having a problem with my well and was wondering if anyone had some insight. Lately I have noticed that my well struggles to maintain pressure when I run more than 2 things at once. We have been at this house for 5 years and just started noticing this a little over a year ago. At first I thought it was just too much for the well but it seems to be getting more finicky now. I just replaced my pressure tank about 6 months ago due to the old one being waterlogged and thought it would fix my problem. It doesn't lose pressure and leak down over time at all so I think that's good. I just replaced a front load washer with a top loader and it seems to give us the most problems filling up the washer. It will run fine and then as it continues to fill it loses pressure and cant keep up with the demand and starts to **** air from the well losing water in the system. Any help is appreciated, thanks.

I feel your pain, I had to repair my well pump last year.

If you are sucking air into the system at any point, that is a red flag.
Even with a bad press. switch or clogged pump impeller, your water supply would be impacted, but you shouldn't be sucking any air.

You've stated that you have 2-lines coming from the well, which indicates a deep well setup. If the system is holding pressure with the pump off, the tank and the foot valve are not the problem.

I'd try simulating a high water demand scenario to see if you are in fact sucking any air. The only place that I can think of where air could get into the system would be at the jet inside of the well.

Good luck, keep us posted!

 

[jjgrappler]

Unfortunately some of the easy stuff to check is not so easy in this case. Foot valve, and injector/housing would be near the top of my list given the conditions but that also calls for locating and accessing the well. A worn/clogged pump impeller is a possibility.

How would I test to make sure the pump isn't worn or clogged? Thanks in advance

 

[jjgrappler]

I feel your pain, I had to repair my well pump last year.

If you are sucking air into the system at any point, that is a red flag.
Even with a bad press. switch or clogged pump impeller, your water supply would be impacted, but you shouldn't be sucking any air.

You've stated that you have 2-lines coming from the well, which indicates a deep well setup. If the system is holding pressure with the pump off, the tank and the foot valve are not the problem.

I'd try simulating a high water demand scenario to see if you are in fact sucking any air. The only place that I can think of where air could get into the system would be at the jet inside of the well.

Good luck, keep us posted!

I don't know if it's sucking air or not. When two or more sources are used at the same time it loses pressure in the gauge and then bounces all over the place without water. Shut off the valve to the house and it builds pressure in the pressure tank and then it's okay from then on. It seems to be getting worse. I think I need to test my pump, any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Fierljeppen]

I don't know if it's sucking air or not. When two or more sources are used at the same time it loses pressure in the gauge and then bounces all over the place without water. Shut off the valve to the house and it builds pressure in the pressure tank and then it's okay from then on. It seems to be getting worse. I think I need to test my pump, any ideas would be appreciated.

I think you're going to have to simulate the high water demand scenerio before we go to the next step.

If you open two or more sources, then open a valve that is higher than the rest, like a shower head. Do you hear any air coming out?
While doing this, is the pressure gauge going down slowly or quickly? At what pressure does the gauge start bouncing?

Shut off the valve to the house, let the pressure build in the tank and then repeat the test again. Record how much time how it takes to fully
pressurize the tank and shutoff the pump. Do this test several times. Do you get the same results?

The gauge could be bouncing because of air in the system or a bad switch that is turning the pump on and off very quickly. We're hoping for a bad
switch or pump, both of which are inexpensive and accesible.

I don't know your mechanical abilities, but I'll try to talk you through as much as I can.

 

[dfiler2]

Boilerhouse is on the right track, doesn't sound like a switch or the pressure tank but it sounds like you need to replace the jet assembly at the bottom of your well. You said it is a two pipe system so you have something like this at the bottom. http://www.discountplumbingoutlet.c...11Fverpo92ocNyAz7ou00b2N8ptpAuChoC1qYQAvD_BwE , they wear out. Of course this means you will need to find your well first.

 

[PCustoms]

Not to highjack, but what dictates the 2 line systems? Do all drilled wells have them?

I've never come across them before, but it could explain the 2 copper lines coming into my utility room through the same hole as the current poly pipe.

 

[crankshaftdan II]

Losing pressure and cannot keep up==Just a thought as this happened to a family member of mine! Not a jet pump set-up as indicated-but std. sub. pump and the gray 10' sections of pipe in well casing. faucets opened/shower etc. demand high-pressure would slowly drop and could not keep up! The torque from the pump kicking on would travel up the gray intake pipe and would cause slapping of the pipe and connecters(Glued @ 10' intervals)one connector had a hair line crack around joint and would slowly drain water back down the pipe. Solution was to pull all the pipe out and replace with H.D. Screw on connectors-as this was a deep (350') well! Not a cheap solution-but had to be done-this could also be a possibility for your more shallow set-up??? Just an idea.

 

[Boilerhouse]

How would I test to make sure the pump isn't worn or clogged? Thanks in advance

I post below based on personal experience only, I am not a pro, just install and troubleshoot my own systems. I have or had a dug well, a drilled well, a piston pump, shallow well pump. deep well pump and submersible pump. The latter is my favorite.

From your experience, you have determined something is not right. The pump handled all conditions just fine until about a year ago then it struggled under heavy load. The condition seems to be getting worse.

Water can realistically be drawn up about 25 feet. The pump creates a vacuum in the suction line, and atmospheric air pressure forces the water up the line and into the pump. A deep well jet pump works by recirculating a portion of the flow at the pump, back down into the well, where it travels through an injector, creating a vacuum near the foot valve and acting as a mini pump to both draw and push additional water up the line and into the pump. Even a deep well jet pump is limited to a suction depth of 90 - 100 feet. Beyond that depth, a submersible pump is required.

From what I have heard so far, I am discounting any issue with the pressure switch, as it seems to click "on" when the pressure is low, and kick "off" when the pressure is high. Under heavy load, pump runs but can't maintain pressure so this eliminates an issue with the switch.

I would eliminate any issue with the pressure tank, not just because it is new, but because it exhibits no symptoms of a faulty pressure tank. Although the bladder pressure does need to be set up for optimal efficiency, as posted previously, it currently seems to work fine under normal use.

So this leaves either the well or the pump system (pump, lines, etc). It is important to determine if the pump is indeed drawing air. My guess is no, but as posted, you should check - you would hear the water and air spurting from the faucets. Also jet pumps are intolerant of larger amounts of air, and my experience is that they stop altogether and need to be shut down, re-primed, and restarted. Once confirmed, this would eliminate any issue with well level, or cracks in the suction side of the pump.

This leaves wear or clogs in the pump, piping or the foot valve/injector assembly. My experience is that plastic piping rarely clogs up, and providing it is determined there are no cracks in it, this can be eliminated.

This leaves the pump itself or the foot valve/injector assembly. The pump can be checked by opening up the casing where the lines enter and checking for broken/worn impeller or clogging up at the suction point or discharge point. If this checks out, than I am afraid you really need to determine where the well is, pull the foot valve/injector assembly and check for wear and clogs.

The above covers the more common issues. I suppose it is entirely possible something uncommon is going on, but in troubleshooting, I prefer to eliminate the obvious first.

 

[jjgrappler]

Thank you very much for the help. I talked to the previous owners yesterday and I was informed it's a 75 foot deep well, that unfortunately is out where my deck is located. I am going to have to do some trouble shooting tomorrow and see if it's the pump or if it's something worse. They stated that they replaced the foot valve a few years ago and have never had any problems with the well other than that.

 

[jjgrappler]

Doesn't seem to be the pressure switch. Took the line off from the pump to the pressure switch no blockage. Emptied pressure tank and it takes 4 minutes to fill back up. I wanna take the pipes off the pump and look at the pump. What do I need to look for to see if the pump is going bad? I was watching the pressure gauge while my wife showered and it was bouncing around 30 psi but we didnt run out of water. However it doesn't seem to be able to keep up with the washing machine. I'm hoping it's the pump, if not guess I'm going to have to crawl under the deck then

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[yeldogt]

Is the pump making noise? Any close neighbors ? how deep are the wells in the area.

Sometimes with limited knowledge the best thing is to call an expert -- for $100 you get the answer and the correct solution.

 

[Boilerhouse]

I would start by referring to an owners manual, which is probably available online and see what serviceable parts there are. It should have an exploded diagram and parts list. The motor is probably OK, so that leaves just the pump itself. Remove the four bolts and open up the casing and check for wear or sediment build ups on the impeller and any other components. Clean it up and replace anything that looks worn. With luck, that is as far as you need to go and your issues are resolved.

 

[jjgrappler]

What are the chances I have corrosion inside the pipe or a bad check valve?

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[jjgrappler]

What are the chances of corrosion inside the pipes?

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[yeldogt]

You are getting pressure and flow and no leak down -- doesn't sound like obstruction. when you run a hose does it start to get air?

It really sounds like you are sucking air -- do you have neighbors? how deep are the wells?

We had a camp house as a kid with a shallow well -- it required a holding tank ... back then going deep through rock was not like it is today with equipment available.

 

[Boilerhouse]

If there is any obstructions, it would likely be at the tee, the first elbow, or possibly the red shut off valve. There doesn't seem to be any unions to conveniently access these things, so you will have to cut into the line then resolder.
.

 

[jjgrappler]

You are getting pressure and flow and no leak down -- doesn't sound like obstruction. when you run a hose does it start to get air?

It really sounds like you are sucking air -- do you have neighbors? how deep are the wells?

We had a camp house as a kid with a shallow well -- it required a holding tank ... back then going deep through rock was not like it is today with equipment available.

Yes when I start a hose it sputters sometime. I was told the well is 75 ft deep. Are you thinking the well may be drying up?

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[yeldogt]

Yes when I start a hose it sputters sometime. I was told the well is 75 ft deep. Are you thinking the well may be drying up?

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It's a rather simple system (water well) ...it's been a long time since I had a Jet pump. But, my memory is the pump sound changed when we had the air issue.

My memory is they are also only able to work in shallow wells -- or at least years ago. So yes -- I'm thinking you are pumping all the water in that area out and getting air. That's way I asked about close neighbors and how deep the wells.


If the pump is able to give you pressure -- it's working. The question would be is it typical for a jet pump to loose the ability to provide pressure after it runs for a bit .... do the parts fail in that manner? But, air in the lines to me would not indicate any pump issue ? how owl a failing pump create air.

 

[jjgrappler]

So my wife's uncle came over to help me diagnose it. We closed the valves to the house and pressure tank. Well kicked off at 46 psi like it's set to do. Then over an hour it dropped to 43 psi, he thinks it's the jet or the foot valve with a slow leak or crack. I'd rather that than the well running dry for sure. What says the hive?

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[LifeLongWNYer]

Just a comment/suggestion on locating a well. Would the County Dept of Health, or whichever entity checks water quality for new wells, be able to tell you who drilled your well? Once you know who punched the hole, he might be able to tell you where it is.



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