larry4406
Well-known member
Use a normal “short” socket with an extension by hand if access *****. Then switch to a fully broached deep well.
Always start a fastener by hand.
What are Deep Sockets For? I've Never Needed One
- Thread starter oldschoolcraft
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Always start a fastener by hand.
whateg01
Well-known member
What if there isn't enough room for a socket with extension but the fastener is recessed so I can't hold it with just my fingers? (Pretty sure somebody else already mentioned that scenario.)
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many of my extensions are cross hatched to help with starting/running in a fastener on socket and extension by hand.
whateg01
Well-known member
You can stick a fastener in the end of a socket and turn it by hand. Thinking about this more, the only 2 times I can think of where I have or would have benefited from a fully broached socket are when I didn't have enough room above the fastener for the socket to stick up more and when i was trying to run a nut and jam nut onto a stud at the same time. OTOH, I can think of many times I wished the socket wasn't fully broached, normally when trying to start a fastener with the socket.
whateg01
Well-known member
still doesn't help when there's not enough room for a socket and extension. I guess I could cut one of those off just so I can use a short socket.
that is one reason (read: excuse) to go right out and buy a set of intermediates.
Dakotadadv8
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OP I also don't use deep sockets often as well, but I have and use them CM USA chrome 1/4 metric set, 3/8 skipped basic sets, and 1/2 impacts.
Joemctag
Well-known member
Couple weeks ago, after dropping and losing 6 or 8 6mm (10mm across flats) nuts where I couldnt start the nut with fingers, I resorted to sticking the nut into a socket with caulk. Can’t remember last time I had to do that.
whateg01
Well-known member
I use masking tape
Try paper towel next time, old mechanics trick... it's easier, less mess and more temporary than caulk.
Ohio Andy
Well-known member
Do you just have some between the nut and the side wall of the socket?
whateg01
Well-known member
I still the tape to the bottom of the socket and push it in with the fastener. Then the fastener comes out when itug on the socket and I remove the tape and toss it. Paper towel or whatever works the same way. It just gets wedged between the socket and the fastener. I'm not sure what other way it would work
What’s fully broached mean? I’m guessing it means the hex shape cut goes all the way down but I’m not sure why I’d want one or the other.
larry4406
Well-known member
Correct - the 6 or 12 points are full depth.
If you have a nut over a long stud, a fully broached socket allows the nut to rise along the length of the stud while not displacing the ratchet - handy for tight spots.
Ohio Andy
Well-known member
I believe yes.
How could it be a problem? If you are installing a nut and you can't reach it with your fingers so you stick it into the society and use the socket to start it, with a fully broached socket the nut can be pushed into the socket and then you may not be able to put enough force to start the nut. I am guessing that this is where the paper towel is used.
Yes. Basically, tear off a small piece of paper towel, put it over the end of the socket and push the nut down into the socket on top of the paper towel. It creates just enough pressure to hold the nut in the socket, so it doesn't drop while you're trying to get it started on the stud. It also works with a bolt too.
It's an alternative to using a magnetic socket. When you pull the socket off after starting the nut or bolt, the paper towel just falls away. Worst case you have to pick it out of the socket. But be careful if you have an open cavity the paper towel could fall into.
Shallow broaches help to hold the nut or bolt closer to the end of the socket, making them easier to start thread engagement. A deep broach holds the nut or bolt deeper inside the socket and can make things difficult at times.
MFortie
Well-known member
I almost always grab a deep socket; keeps my knuckles further away from ‘knuckle busting’ stuff…
Maybe I’m a little slow today but instead of having a special shallow broach deep socket bwcuase you still need full broach deep sockets for regular deep socket use. And instead of messing with paper towels, couldn’t you just use a shallow socket and a small extension to give you the same thing as a short broach deep socket?
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I got my first 1/4" drive socket set over 55 years ago. I still do NOT own any deep 1/4" drive sockets !
I got my first 3/8" drive socket set at the same time. I am pretty certain I add 3/8" deep sockets within a few years.
I got my first 3/8" drive socket set at the same time. I am pretty certain I add 3/8" deep sockets within a few years.
The paper towel trick works with shallow sockets too. It's just for holding a nut or bolt in the socket if you don't have a magnetic socket. It's most useful in difficult to reach areas where you usually can't get your hand to start a nut or bolt by hand.
As for your other question, I don't know how to answer it. But I don't think you need both. The idea of a broach is simply to engage and hold the nut or bolt head towards the end of the socket and not deep down inside a socket. It's not so much an issue with shallow sockets, but it can be a problem with deep sockets when the broach of the socket is say 2"+ down inside the socket.
well i guess I just see why anyone would ever need a deep socket with a shallow broach the way it’s being described you could do the same thing with a shallow socket and a tiny extension.
For the reason that deep sockets exist - To clear a longer stud/bolt.
Having pretty much always been around Snap-on and SK sockets, the shallow broach on deep sockets is the norm to me, and fully broached sockets are unusual. I've seen reviews of deep sockets that aren't fully broached where people say "not a true deep socket" or "unusable because the 6 points don't go all the way down" or whatever, and I don't get that. I guess some of it is what you're used to.
I have some 12 point deep sockets that are fully broached and I keep them around for when they help, particularly on something like a grease zerk, where it's "taller" than a regular fastener and you wouldn't get full engagement with it on a shallow broached deep socket.
Ohio Andy
Well-known member
Unless it is A small bolt and the head of the socket is larger than the base of the socket and maybe it won't fit into a recess...
Other than that no you should be right
richfinn
Well-known member
Ko-ken sell "nut-grip" sockets for this purpose, A bit spendy for odd jobs but if it's a critical/regular situation might be worth a look in sizes you use often like 8/10/13mm
Joemctag
Well-known member
Thanks. I knew there had to be a good way; just couldn’t think.
Joemctag
Well-known member
Thanks. It’d be worth it: 8, 10, 12 mm. I just work on Japanese cars, mainly. An extendable magnet is within reach at all times. So, when removing a bolt or nut, you try to put some tape around the inside of the socket, I guess.
shoggoth80
Well-known member
Clearance. Long stud, knuckles, tad more reach. Work on enough stuff, and you'll eventually find a situation where a deep socket is beneficial.
Ohio Andy
Well-known member
Yesterday I had to work on something and I did not want to grab my ratchets / sockets so I grabbed my ratcheting wrenches (https://www.tekton.com/long-flex-head-12-point-ratcheting-box-end-wrench-set-6-piece-holder-wrb96200) because it was easy to carry.... and.... The bolt head was recessed so I could not use the wrenches and I had to hold underneath and there was no clearance for the wrenches or the sockets. So, back to get sockets, ratchet, and a Knipex pliers wrench.
Semi-hole mechanic
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I’m replacing an engine in my wife’s car and I find myself doing the same. I even have several different ratchets with different sized sockets so I don’t have to change sockets all the time. Plus I have combo wrenches and DBEs in the sizes I need. After I get to a certain point I put everything away because I’m grabbing the wrong sized wrench that I don’t need anymore.
Semi-hole mechanic
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Both of my wife’s last two cars (‘09 Focus and ‘14 Cruze) both required a deep well socket to remove the engine mounts. The Cruze has a stud on the fender that the motor mount sits over and is held on with a nut that can only reached with a deep well socket. I guess you could use a ratcheting wrench or even a regular wrench until you could get a socket on it to get around using a deep socket.
Same situation as the OP, DIY messing up my own cars and almost never "needed" a deep socket. Spark plug sockets dont count, neither the 17mm deep impact with plastic outer protection for wheel bolts. Nor the 24mm deep in 3/8 that I needed to take out an oil pressure sensor, I consider these specialist tools.
Despite having bought 1/2 deeps long time ago, they reside in a different case than my usual car tools.
I use small extensions on 3/8 and 1/2 with std sockets. Granted I have bought 7 10 and 13mm deep cheap sockets thrown in my 1/4 socket set case and I use them sometimes but not because I need them, its just they are useful, eg 7mm for tightening hose clamps.
We in Europe dont have that many trucks with U bolts on rear leafsprings so no deep sockets.
Despite having bought 1/2 deeps long time ago, they reside in a different case than my usual car tools.
I use small extensions on 3/8 and 1/2 with std sockets. Granted I have bought 7 10 and 13mm deep cheap sockets thrown in my 1/4 socket set case and I use them sometimes but not because I need them, its just they are useful, eg 7mm for tightening hose clamps.
We in Europe dont have that many trucks with U bolts on rear leafsprings so no deep sockets.
So your trucks just have U bolts on front leaf springs? Or is it I haven't moved into the 21st century with my truck
Heavy duty trucks and vans would be the same, he probably means there's just far fewer personal-use trucks on the road overall. Even from the ones that are, a lot would have coil springs instead (I think like the Ford Raptors do). But there are certainly a bunch of toyota Hilux-es on the roads...So your trucks just have U bolts on front leaf springs? Or is it I haven't moved into the 21st century with my truck
How would that work for the standard jobs that you do with extra deep sockets (bumper covers…).
whateg01
Well-known member
Deep socket plus 12" extension, plus a wobbly, plus another 6" extension
He was asking about using a pass through socket in place of an extra deep socket.
whateg01
Well-known member
Yeah I was referring to all the **** it takes to get to the bolts on bumper covers that makes a pass through not useful
thool
Well-known member
I use deep sockets a few times for extra fastener travel (the broached concept). My 1/4" set gets a lot more deep socket usage, partly because I like the extra area to spin on and off with my fingers, especially when I am not using an extension.
It's like the concept of skips: you may never use a 18mm wrench, until you need it!
It's like the concept of skips: you may never use a 18mm wrench, until you need it!