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What can possibly make this tool set worth $2,700 bucks?.

oilfieldtrash4

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What makes it worth it? The consumers willing to pay for them.

Is 1 snap on wrench worth 5 craftsman wrenches? Snap on's yearly earnings would say yes.
 
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basspro

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When I was at my last place of employment (hydraulic shop), we had shop sockets in 1" drive sockets up to 3", mixed Snap On and Armstrong. We were an authorized repair center for reliable, stanley, and green lee/fairmont fluid power tools, including hydraulic impacts, so naturally, we had a few impacts in 1" and 1.5" drive around the shop, tons of power. We also had a cylinder machine developed by CAT that would go up to 30,000lbs, so we had the power to do big stuff. I thought the 3" occasional bolts were big, until we modified a 150 ton press, which came from Remington Arms. We were tearing it down and turning it into a cold press to make huge axle bushings for Oshkosh Truck. The 4 "bolts" and nuts holding the press together were 5.5" across the head. After breaking a 6' Reed chain wrench, we broke down and purchased a socket to fit. It was over a grand I know that for sure. That was the biggest ive had my hands on. I personally, only own up to 36mm.
 
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Outlawmws

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Does anyone know anyone that's actually bought the 21/40k SO sets??? Insane...Quality, sure...but does tooling and materials really cost that much? C'mon.

I do not get how bigger drive equates to ASTRONOMICAL increase in price!

I'm with ya. I've read the reasons....still call ********.

Tooling costs are always high, and the only thing that keeps EVERYTHING we buy from costing like that is amortization over tens, if not 100's of thousands of tools. I was (many years ago involved in designing consumer calculators, (this was back when a basic calculator cost over $100) an engineer was charged with coming up with a design that cost under $10 retail. the driver for the calculator's cost wasn't the electronics, it was the tooling for the plastic case molds. Three of them front back and a battery door. Tooling was 50K for a mold, (this was all pre CAD and pre Computer controlled mills and lathes).

He could not do it for the quantities involved. the solution? Make 10X the original target quantity; then the tooling was no longer the driver for the cost of the damn calculator. the same company was doing early Digital watches. Mass production quantities got those cheap enough to be given away in cereal boxes.

It's all about quantity...

Why does a Ferrari cost so much more than a Ford? one is hand made, the other is mass produced... :3gears:
 

The Ratchet Man

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We have bolts up to 6 3/4" on some of our crushers at work. You have to think about fixed equipment too, not just the mobile equipment. Take that Cat haul truck for instance. If it was hauling granite to a crusher, the crusher bolts will likely be 3 times as large as the largest bolt on the truck. The truck just has to haul it. The crusher has to break it.
 

maddawg1952

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At a new power plant job I worked on the turbine was being installed, I walked by and saw some of the biggest sockets and wrenches ever. One of the anchor bolts that we poured in the massive concrete pad was 3" in diameter. I lifted one of the nuts and was extremely glad I was having no part in torqueing any of that stuff down on the install. That gang box had to be worth Thousands of thousands of dollars.
 

oilfieldtrash4

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Tooling costs are always high, and the only thing that keeps EVERYTHING we buy from costing like that is amortization over tens, if not 100's of thousands of tools. I was (many years ago involved in designing consumer calculators, (this was back when a basic calculator cost over $100) an engineer was charged with coming up with a design that cost under $10 retail. the driver for the calculator's cost wasn't the electronics, it was the tooling for the plastic case molds. Three of them front back and a battery door. Tooling was 50K for a mold, (this was all pre CAD and pre Computer controlled mills and lathes).

He could not do it for the quantities involved. the solution? Make 10X the original target quantity; then the tooling was no longer the driver for the cost of the damn calculator. the same company was doing early Digital watches. Mass production quantities got those cheap enough to be given away in cereal boxes.

It's all about quantity...

Why does a Ferrari cost so much more than a Ford? one is hand made, the other is mass produced... :3gears:

Machine is paid for. The only cost would be the die for the forging. I could see $500 maybe even a $1000. But 20k? The only reason they are that high is because they know it's industrial and they can gouge them.
 

matthew

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I'm with ya. I've read the reasons....still call ********.

While I'm sure Snap-On makes a good profit at that, I'm actually not sure their margins aren't better on the smaller stuff. I work in manufacturing, and if I was figuring a cost out at work, I'd look at it like this:

- steel cost is basically by the poiunds. Because it's length x width x height that gives volume and thus weight, a 3" socket being 6 times the size of a 1/2" socket would have very roughly 6x6x6=216 times the steel cost in it, assuming proportions are about the same.

- a 1/2" socket will be highly tooled and highly automated. Materials might be a large part of the cost. The volume isn't going to be there for a 3", so labour cost will probably involve a series of manual operations (cutting blanks, maybe some machining, then forging)

- not only is the socket heavier, but there's a good chance that more scrap is created, because low-scrap tooling is less feasible to invest in.

- setup is going to be huge. A 1/2" socket is probably made by the tooling all day long. So an hour to set up the process is divided by thousands of sockets, thus being spread out at a rate of pennies per piece. A 3" socket might be made in a batch of one or two or five. And with the lower amount of tooling, it might take a couple of hours of setup time per socket. Multiply that by $100 per hour.

Basically put 2 oz. of tool steel, chromium plating, and consumables to make a 1/2" socket, and a few minutes of labour, and your cost is going to be measured in dollars. Change that to many pounds of steel, maybe an hour of labour and several hours of setup, and no, it's not unreasonable to say it will cost hundreds or thousands. That's the difference that high volume makes - make it by millions, cost is $1, but the exact same product can be a hundredfold more expensive when made in hundreds.
 
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Roots

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Machine is paid for. The only cost would be the die for the forging. I could see $500 maybe even a $1000. But 20k? The only reason they are that high is because they know it's industrial and they can gouge them.

With a few exceptions large businesses do not function like small businesses. Whether it's a manufacturer or end user, machines are not "paid for". Asset valuations, return on investment, corporate financing are a bit more convoluted than that.

Additionally, look at the competition, 2 1/2" Drive sockets are expensive and in the same "ball park" no matter who manufacturers them. It's a bit doubtful that everyone's in a conspiracy...

I've paid over $5k for one socket in 2 1/2" Drive size... If you start making sets for $500, please let the world know. We're waiting...

Also remember that industrial users are rarely gouged, except when somethings needed now. Than a premium is paid for the service of procuring, which can become vastly more difficult than merely manufacturing an item. For normal transactions, large industrial customers receive massive volume discounts and typically have teams of people watching and reassessing line items like a hawk.
 

oilfieldtrash4

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One thing I forgot about is they would need bigger presses to forge a huge socket. I doubt the ones they use for wrenches would handle a 5" socket. The machine itself would probably be several hundreds of thousands. So I take back my only dies would need to be changed comment.
 

Kracin

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Machine is paid for. The only cost would be the die for the forging. I could see $500 maybe even a $1000. But 20k? The only reason they are that high is because they know it's industrial and they can gouge them.

if you have no idea how it works then why make assumptions based on nothing?

multiple people have laid out well thought out responses as to why the pricing sits where it is, and it has nothing to do with a name or having to pay overpaid workers either.
 

ephotrod

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The market that demands these tools are willing to bear the price. Please note the market for these type of tools are other business (usually heavy industry), so in the grand scheme of things for them the tools are relatively cheap as opposed to the equipment they work on.
Josh
 

oilfieldtrash4

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if you have no idea how it works then why make assumptions based on nothing?

multiple people have laid out well thought out responses as to why the pricing sits where it is, and it has nothing to do with a name or having to pay overpaid workers either.

Based on nothing? Besides working in a forge shop for 8 years and also having worked in a heat treat facility I would put up my steel working credentials against yours anyday. Thanks for ASSuming.
 
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The Ratchet Man

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The industrial market will bear the price point. When you have millions ******* in equipment with preventative maintenance and repairs being done daily, the price for that set is small change to an industrial company. It just seems to be a lot because most automotive shops and DIYers have a much, much lower price point for a set of sockets. I'm staying out of the discussion of production costs because as stated somewhere above there won't be too much price difference between manufacturers.
 

Kracin

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Based on nothing? Besides working in a forge shop for 8 years and also having worked in a heat treat facility I would put up my steel working credentials against yours anyday. Thanks for ASSuming.

im assuming you think that there are no costs to manufacture something even after the fact. i too have worked industrial maintenance in production facilities. unfortunately the internet is a great place for people to run around and look dumb all day long i see.

local 3141 steel workers union. thanks


edit:

Machine is paid for. The only cost would be the die for the forging. I could see $500 maybe even a $1000. But 20k? The only reason they are that high is because they know it's industrial and they can gouge them.

also, just reading this leads one to believe that there are no setup times to get a machine ready to run, no down times during breakdowns, no problems with dies that require a tool and die shop to rework worn out dies. no problems with the presses during, before or after operation, no repair parts for things that do break when being used in a 100ton+ press, no issues with bad parts that dont meet QC. no workers to pay to operate, maintain and use, no loss in production of other equipment that makes them more money because it's a much higher volume machine.


give me a break, there is so much more to the cost of something than "well it's paid for".

for all you know the people that do make these socket sets take a big hit on them, and only supply them to keep business with those other companies, because they also sell them a lot of their high volume supplies as well, and they can keep them on their list of major suppliers which helps sales in the long run when they go and advertise to other companies to try and get business.


assume that?
 
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03protege

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Machine is paid for. The only cost would be the die for the forging. I could see $500 maybe even a $1000. But 20k? The only reason they are that high is because they know it's industrial and they can gouge them.

You really think the $20k dollar set should be available for $1k? They get that much for the 1/2" drive stuff.
 

Maexle

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Kracin

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different manufacturers and different sets.

the 1200 euro set even has a wobble with it as well. a 1" wobble from a quality manufacturer could run almost 150 usd, more for a bigger name

you also pay into the name as well as the cost of whatever their production processes cost. some companies can pump out large quanities of products depending on how they distribute their workloads and how well their plants are run. others only keep enough for minimal stock and then make things on demand because their bread and butter is from the smaller stuff.

it's like asking why a duralast set costs 20 dollars and a snap-on set with the same tools is 350. where it's made, who made it, and what goes into it all effect the costs (not to mention how much they know they can mark it up purely based on the brand quality, a big part of marketing is ensuring your brand can sell itself)
 

Maexle

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different manufacturers and different sets.

the 1200 euro set even has a wobble with it as well. a 1" wobble from a quality manufacturer could run almost 150 usd, more for a bigger name

you also pay into the name as well as the cost of whatever their production processes cost. some companies can pump out large quanities of products depending on how they distribute their workloads and how well their plants are run. others only keep enough for minimal stock and then make things on demand because their bread and butter is from the smaller stuff.

it's like asking why a duralast set costs 20 dollars and a snap-on set with the same tools is 350. where it's made, who made it, and what goes into it all effect the costs (not to mention how much they know they can mark it up purely based on the brand quality, a big part of marketing is ensuring your brand can sell itself)


So, is the Snap-on set about 13 X better than the Hazet / Gedore set ? (price relation )
 

BullfrogJohnson

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while those snap ons have some usefulness, those wrights are relatively useless. chrome sockets, ratchets, breaker???? for the most part, nearly useless.

ive posted some pics before, so im sure there is no need to repost, but typically, when it comes to those sizes, nuts are often torched or cracked with a nut cracker for removal. sometimes you cant, but most times you damn sure arent doing it with a ratchet or breaker. if its loose enough to remove with a ratchet, you can about bet it is damaged and needs replaced.

tightening usually involves using a 1" impact @ WOT, then properly "hytorqed" although a pneumatic geared multiplier, larger impact, or hydro impact/multiplier might be employed. chrome pretty much has no business in this arena.

I am glad I am not the only one thinking this. If you have ever had the pleasure of running a 1" plus air impact with the PROPER sized air lines and airflow or a hydraulic torque wrench, There is only one thing on your mind " I hope this socket doesn't grenade". Big air tools are violent on sockets. Hydraulic torque wrenches have zero feelings. Most the big sockets we use at work don't have a very long lifespan before needing warranty. I wont complain about expensive prices for a quality socket because being on the wrong end of a cheap one can be catastrophic.
 

gte718p

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The industrial market will bear the price point. When you have millions ******* in equipment with preventative maintenance and repairs being done daily, the price for that set is small change to an industrial company. It just seems to be a lot because most automotive shops and DIYers have a much, much lower price point for a set of sockets. I'm staying out of the discussion of production costs because as stated somewhere above there won't be too much price difference between manufacturers.

Supply and demand drives market prices. I had a 5" bolt that needed to be torqued to 3500 lbs on the prop of my ship. The dive team and support equipment were $20k a day and were stopping operations on a billion dollar warship. I wouldn't have thought twice about spending $2000 to get the right socket if it kept the dive team working and kept the repair schedule.

I have access to the equipment to make my own tooling. Could make and heat treat my own socket. It would cost about $300 in stock, tooling, and power. It would probably take two days. So I could save $1700 on sockets and spend $40k on divers not diving. The same goes for the owners of that big **** dump truck. When they go to do maintenance they generally bring a team of engineers and maintainers. You need cranes and support equipment. You don't idle that infrastructure for a socket at whatever the price. They will pay $2k a socket and another 2k to have it same day delivered and not think twice about it. As long as that is the case SO and others will charge the price.
 

diesel research

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So, is the Snap-on set about 13 X better than the Hazet / Gedore set ? (price relation )
:headscrat

are you seriously comparing some pos chrome shallow set that ranges from rough equivalent of 1-1/4 to 3" to an impact deep set that begins at 3-5/8 to 5"

:wtf:

hazet doesnt even advertise a socket that size
http://www.hazet.com/uploads/tx_d3mlinkedsources/Range_of_25_1__Sockets.pdf


you should probably price check your self on the gedore, with non deceptive similar comparisons. gedore doesnt list a set or a size that large, so we will take what they have, and a similar sized snap on from the kit in the link.

$1530
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=648510&group_ID=674980

$2400+s/h @todays exchange of 1.31:1
http://www.eurafco-shop.de/en/Equip...mm-GED-K-37-L-120.html#test_MorePics_2_dialog

is the gedore 1.5x as good? or bias allows for exceptions?


i said i wouldnt bore people with reposts, but perhaps its worth noting that fasteners dont stop at 19mm...

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Maexle

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I am sorry, i was wrong, i should have compared the other sets to the thread openers set and not to the snap-on impact set.

My bad, sorry. You are right, i did not compare apples to apples this time.

I guess the 21k for the set is justified then.
 

neophyte

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This is a video showing workers at one of Gedore's factories showing the workers forging giant wrenches.
This a video showing Gedore workers at a different factory or production line forging their standard size wrenches.
Both of the videos are in German, but it shows the difference in the processes that go into making the wrenches. The differences are probably similar for giant sockets as well. The forge hammers for the jumbo wrenches are much larger. The actual forging process is slower, as is the broaching process, and less automation is used.
 

Kracin

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This is a video showing workers at one of Gedore's factories showing the workers forging giant wrenches.
This a video showing Gedore workers at a different factory or production line forging their standard size wrenches.
Both of the videos are in German, but it shows the difference in the processes that go into making the wrenches. The differences are probably similar for giant sockets as well. The forge hammers for the jumbo wrenches are much larger. The actual forging process is slower, as is the broaching process, and less automation is used.

^ another very good example of another thing that drives the cost of odd sized/over sized production items up.



also, the end of the second video is pretty cool where they are testing those pliers insulated grips with high voltage shocks.
 
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