What makes commercial electrical "commercial"?

[mrb]

You realize mrb, that that the licensed professionals use that day laborer wiring the kitchen next door? I see that all the time. I laugh about it with my friends. Some contractor comes by and signs the contract and then all you see is the day laborers. 90 percent of the electrical work done on the undergrounding was done by day laborers. They worked under "the supervision" of a general, not even a C10. Should I feel confident about that work?

no but ideally at least there is insurance behind it. CSLB finally started zero tolerance enforcement of C10s hiring workers without jourmneyman or apprentice card. general still has exemption. i have access to a RMO or RME for a general lic. wish i had the cash to go build a small industrial park before that loophole is gone.

 

[MrMark]

no but ideally at least there is insurance behind it. CSLB finally started zero tolerance enforcement of C10s hiring workers without jourmneyman or apprentice card. general still has exemption. i have access to a RMO or RME for a general lic. wish i had the cash to go build a small industrial park before that loophole is gone.

I am aware of that. That is a good thing, finally. Unfortunately, the general, the guy who knows nothing about electrical has the exemption. I didn't believe it when I first learned about that. I couldn't understand how the law developed in that fashion. If you are going to make the argument that licensed contractor is safer and better, your argument does not withstand cross examination when the general contractor exemption is brought up.

 

[MrMark]

mark, heres an interesting read http://ladbs.org/LADBSWeb/LADBS_Forms/Permits/owner_builder_permits.pdf

Thanks for that. They really try to get you "scared straight", don't they! I have a feeling these "advisory statements" come from pressures from the contracting industry lobby.

 

[mrb]

just as i cant say all work done by license holders is better than all homeowner work, you cant say the inverse. there is just as much if not more bad work done by homeowners. alot of that is just because they didnt know any better. then theres the bottom feeders who will do anything to save a buck. remember that kid killed by an energized garage door? licensed electrican did the work, but i place partial blame with the homeowner for getting the job done as cheap as possible. few want to spend the money to do something right.

 

[mrb]

Thanks for that. They really try to get you "scared straight", don't they! I have a feeling these "advisory statements" come from pressures from the contracting industry lobby.

actually that came from homeowners getting conned by fly by night contractors. people would hire a contractor either unlicensed or with no workers comp or no business license for the city theyre working in or whatever and the contractor would talk the ho into pulling the permit. then homeowner gets left holding the bag for unfinished work, or correcting problems, or unpaid materials, etc. I like this form, it forces the idiots to acknowlege what theyre doing so they cant cry about it later when they get screwed.

 

[MrMark]

i know what youre saying about the quality of work from licensed contractors. mostly comes from people taking the lowest bidder. i see plenty of really good work, mostly in commercial installs.

the issue is there must be some standard. you have all these smaller owners, and a few large owners that just dont give a **** and only care about the low bid and hire anyone off the street to do the work. sometimes even done with loans and grants from the city.

then you have larger institutional owners such as CIM who build their projects right and hire reputable contractors who do good work.

alot can be said by the truck that rolls up to the jobsite. beat up truck = no. truck with no company info = no. truck covered 100% in graphics, especially those advertising industrial switchgear, recessed can light installs, cctv, telephones, and solar all on one truck = no. truck with logo, name, tel, url, and lic no on door = ok

I'm glad you said this. So true, especially in my study of things, about the truck. The truck says loads for me. I have seen a plumber working out of an Chevy Luv pickup with a bunch of trash in the back and his few tools siting in the front seat. He had a few tatoos of tears on his face, yet he was licensed and hired on some new construction to do a job. I'm sure he was the cheapest possible source of the labor.

 

[MrMark]

just as i cant say all work done by license holders is better than all homeowner work, you cant say the inverse. there is just as much if not more bad work done by homeowners. alot of that is just because they didnt know any better. then theres the bottom feeders who will do anything to save a buck. remember that kid killed by an energized garage door? licensed electrican did the work, but i place partial blame with the homeowner for getting the job done as cheap as possible. few want to spend the money to do something right.

I won't argue with you on any of this. I think that we have arrived at a fair middle ground. Some homeowners do attrocious stuff, I admit that. There are some people that have no technical skill or knowledge and who don't take the time to learn who are true *** hats.

 

[StaggeringGoat]

is it specifically mixed use zoning, or is it zoned commercial with some existing houses that were there before the commercial zoning? Some commercial zones also allow a single family dwelling.

OP, can you post your city/state and the zoning of your property (C-2, MUD-1, etc)? I am interested to take a look at the zoning code and see whats what.

It is specifically a "mixed use" area. I can't find an online link to it right now but this is what I have saved for the "M-2 Light Industrial District" that I'm in:

151.400 DESCRIPTION AND PURPOSE.
The M-2 Light Industrial District is intended to create, preserve and enhance areas containing a wide range of manufacturing and related establishments, and is typically appropriate to areas providing a wide variety of sites with good rail or highway access. The M-2 District is intended to be consistent with the "industrial" designation of the comprehensive plan.
(Ord. 96-2451, passed 12-2-96)
151.401 PERMITTED BUILDINGS AND USES.
(A) In the M-2 Light Industrial District, the following buildings and uses are permitted as hereinafter specifically provided.
(B) The buildings and uses are subject to the general provisions and exceptions set forth in this code:
(1) Accessory buildings and uses normal and incidental to the buildings and uses permitted in this section and § 151.402.
(2) Agricultural machinery, sales and service.
(3) Agricultural supplies, including hatcheries.
(4) Agricultural uses or any other enterprise customarily carried on in the field of general agriculture (Except no slaughterhouses permitted).
(5) Ambulance services.
(6) Athletic facilities.
(7) Auction sales.
(8) Automobile painting shops.
(9) Automobile sales, new and used.
(10) Bakeries, wholesale and retail.
(11) Banks.
(12) Building maintenance services.
(13) Building material sales.
(14) Car washes; coin operated or mechanical.
(15) Christmas tree sales (outdoor sales) in accordance with this code.
(16) Churches.
(17) Convenience grocery stores with a maximum of 2000 square feet.
(18) Driving ranges, private.
(19) Dwelling unit, limited to one, for a caretaker or superintendent, whenever the use requires the on-site residence of such person.(20) Equipment rental yards.
(21) Equipment sales.
(22) Feed and seed stores.
(23) Fireworks sales (outdoor sales) from June 24 to July 6.
(24) Laboratories.
(25) Manufacturing, compounding, processing, assembling, packaging, treatment or fabrication of articles, such as:
(a) Blueprints.
(b) Boats.
(c) Ceramics.
(d) Communication components and systems.
(e) Cosmetics.
(f) Creameries.
(g) Drugs.
(h) Electrical and electronic components and systems.
(i) Farm equipment.
(j) Food and beverage products (except fish, meat, sauerkraut, vinegar, yeast and alcoholic beverages).
(k) Films.
(l) Garments.
(m) Glass.
Greenhouses.
(o) Instruments.
(p) Iron, steel and sheet metal, provided no blast furnaces, shall be allowed.
(q) Leather.
(r) Novelties.
(s) Paint, provided no boiling is allowed.
(t) Paper and cellophane, except no manufacturing.
(u) Perfumes.
(v) Plaster, except no manufacturing.
(w) Plastics, except no manufacturing.
(x) Signs.
Soil.
(z) Stone monuments.
(aa) Textiles.
(bb) Tires, limited to recapping, retreading and rebuilding.
(cc) Tobacco.
(dd) Toiletries.
(ee) Upholstery.
(ff) Wood, but excluding operation of a planing mill.
(gg) Other items similar to the preceding items the manufacturing, compounding, processing, assembling, treatment, testing or repairing of which shall not have any different or more detrimental effect upon the adjoining neighborhood areas or districts than the items specifically listed.
(26) Miniature golf courses.
(27) Mobile homes sales and service.
(28) Open space.
(29) Planned unit developments.
(30) Plumbing supplies and services.
(31) Printing and publishing.
(32) Public and private parking areas and garages.
(33) Radiator service and repairs.
(34) Radio towers and transmitters.
(35) Repair garages.
(36) Restaurants.
(37) Secondhand stores.
(38) Service stations.
(39) Skating rinks, indoors.
(40) Small animal clinics.
(41) Small animal hospitals.
(42) Telecommunication facility, including radio towers and transmitters, which are 100 feet or less in height.
(43) Theaters, drive-ins.
(44) Transit centers.
(45) Transportation facilities and improvements.
(46) Trucking yards and terminals.
(47) Truck sales and services.
(48) Wholesaling, warehousing and storing of the following, provided that all outdoor storage shall be enclosed within site-obscuring fences or walls:
(a) Automobiles, truck and buses.
(b) Consumer goods.
(c) Contractors equipment.
(d) Building materials, except no on-site wrecking or burning.
(e) Food products.
(f) Liquid fuel.
(g) Household goods.
(h) Ice.
(i) Lumber, except no log storage or ponding.
(j) Other items similar to the preceding items, including non-specific or general wholesaling, warehousing and storage that shall not have any different or more detrimental effect upon the adjoining neighborhood areas or districts than the items specifically listed.
(49) Utility distribution plants and service yards.
(50) Other buildings and uses similar to the list above which shall not have any different or more detrimental effect upon the adjoining neighborhood areas or districts than the buildings and uses specifically listed, provided that retail sales uses, unless specifically listed, shall only be incidental and indirectly related to the operation of permitted industrial uses.
(Ord. 96-2451, passed 12-2-96; Am. Ord. 2000-2536, passed 11-6-00; Am. Ord. 2003-2576, passed 1-6-03; Am. Ord. 2005-2619, passed 5-16-05)
151.402 BUILDINGS AND USES PERMITTED CONDITIONALLY.
In addition to the buildings and uses permitted conditionally, listed in § 151.211, the Planning Commission may grant a conditional use permit for any of the following buildings and uses in accordance with a Type III procedure:
(A) Dwellings, in conjunction with a permitted use.(B) Manufacturing, compounding, bottling, processing, packaging, or treatment of fish, meat, sauerkraut, vinegar, yeast and alcoholic beverages.
(C) Recreational vehicle parks.
(D) Telecommunication facilities including radio towers and transmitters, which are more than 100 feet in height or which are less than 2,000 feet apart.
(E) Any other building or uses determined to be similar to those listed in this section. Such other uses shall not have any different or more detrimental effect upon the adjoining neighborhood area than the buildings and uses specifically listed in this section.
(Ord. 96-2451, passed 12-2-96; Am. Ord. 2000-2536, passed 11-6-00; Am. Ord. 2003-2576, passed 1-6-03)

 

[StaggeringGoat]

That's totally true. He shouldn't have been there in the first place. It sounds, if anything, like you have a code enforcement issue, not a building department issue. You weren't actively working on anything were you? Is this area in public view. This guy has no business on your property without a warrant.

Yes, it was somewhat in "public view". I'm hoping they aren't going to want to come inside later. No, I wasn't actively working on anything, and what really pisses me off is that none of the wires he saw were energized! I only plug them in when I use them. As far as I'm concerned the "bad wiring" is for decorative purposes during the day.

 

[StaggeringGoat]

To explain even further -

The place I am at is a large industrial complex. There is a main building and a secondary building (mine) on the property. The main building is rented out to several different people, and also has an apartment inside. The owner used to live in that apartment and my building was his "private" garage. Now the previous owner is dead and his garage and apartment went up for lease seperately...

The current owner of the place couldn't give a **** about the condition of the building or whether it's up to code or not, if anything is done it will have to be forced by the county.

 

[MrMark]

OK, I see where you live. You ought to be able to get something accomplished. Talk to your City Council representative and fix this thing up.

 

[mrb]

your zoning is industrial. not mixed use. (the M in m-2 is for manufacturing) mixed use zoning typically allows a mixture of uses such as office and retail, retail and residential, etc. Industrial uses are usually not permitted in mixed use zoning.

In your M-2 the dwelling use is ancilliary to the permitted uses, and is standard in every M designation I have ever come across. They allow one dwelling unit per parcel/address.

Even if you got a CUP, or a modification to turn your building into a residential use you STILL could not do electrical work on it yourself because you do not own it.

This is all alot of time, trouble, and money to try to get out of spending a few hundred bucks fixing a light.

Have you reviewed your lease? What is the landlord responsible for?

edit: the application cost (which is not refunded if your application is denied) for a conditional use permit is going to be several times the cost of fixing your electrical problem. Last one I saw was a few thousand bucks.

 

[mrb]

i found where the OP lives. owner builder electrical only on one and two family buildings in which the owner lives.

the application fee for a CUP is over $1,400 plus there will be a TON of other costs and it could take 6 months to a year.

The permit you need to fix the outside lighting is all of $63.00 I really dont understand what the big deal is. Clean up any blatant violations inside the building, find a cheap lic electrical contractor, have him pull permit and install your light, you should be able to have this done and over with for ~$200

 

[gorilla]

How does your landlord feel about you modifying the electrical wiring in his building? Do you suppose that he might be concerned that it might effect his insurance and the safety of his building? It seems that the building inspector found some sub standard work and felt that it needed to be corrected. You seem to think that it's OK because you unplug it when your not using it? Did you not know that a permit was required for electrical work? Why should the rules that apply to all your neighboring buildings not apply to you simply because you don't want to pay for permit and inspection that keeps everyone safe? I don't like to be told what I can do on my property but it's not even your property.

 

[StaggeringGoat]

How does your landlord feel about you modifying the electrical wiring in his building? Do you suppose that he might be concerned that it might effect his insurance and the safety of his building? It seems that the building inspector found some sub standard work and felt that it needed to be corrected. You seem to think that it's OK because you unplug it when your not using it? Did you not know that a permit was required for electrical work? Why should the rules that apply to all your neighboring buildings not apply to you simply because you don't want to pay for permit and inspection that keeps everyone safe? I don't like to be told what I can do on my property but it's not even your property.

Obviously you didn't read the thread. The wiring was there when I moved in, the landlord is probably the one that did it.

 

[mrb]

Obviously you didn't read the thread. The wiring was there when I moved in, the landlord is probably the one that did it.

what does your lease say about who's responsible for what?