What recession? Flaky contractors...

[Deschodt]

I've been trying to get my garage extended. I know exactly what I want, I've got the money set aside, I need a contractor to write up an estimate, file the permit and get going... I guess it's looking like the construction business is not as hungry for work as the media would have you believe...

Contractor#1 took 3 weeks to get me a ball park estimate (I asked for that to make sure I was not wasting his time... I wasn't). Then he doubled it with his final estimate, 4 weeks later. Oops.

Contractor #2 took 10 days before he could finally come by, 2 weeks for a ballpark estimate, got a green light to do a detailed one, it's been a month since, nothing.... "I passed by to look at something, I'm almost there"...

That's just the estimate, I can't even imagine how long it'll take them to actually build this, given the current speed. I guess my garage is not as juicy as a new home build... They're certainly not hurting for work in FL...

Too bad, I had it all set to go 4 months before my wife gave birth, now there's only 2 months left, and I'm screwed, won't happen in time (too noisy/messy) and this'll have to wait 6 months. Maybe they'll have an estimate by then ;-) Not impressed by the profession so far.

 

[LoanRebel]

thats not only in florida but everywhere... contractors got so used to making huge profits & having more work than they know what to do with that they can't be bothered with the " small stuff". however thye will be the first to admit how slow they are & how bad everything is...

 

[ScaldedDog]

It's just not a business that attracts high quality people.

Mark

 

[Carl B]

Needless to say - - Florida is a "Deadbeat Contractors" paradise - most of the laws on the books protect THEM not you. Be VERY careful with estimates and contracts - it pays HUGE to have a lawyer review any contract BEFORE you put any money out for anything. Assume that you will have to wind up in court suing them... and that the contract will rule. KNOW for sure that NOTHING will get done if they already have your money. Pay only for materials delivered and work DONE... NEVER pay in advance for anything. If the contractor can't use his own capital to get work done or materials delivered - then collect from you - - then don't use that Contractor. He obviously doesn't know how to manage his money...

There are so many crooked Contractors in this State - that I would pull my own permit as the home owner - and then sub-contract the job out myself. That way you don't pay for anything that isn't delivered to your property, or for labor that hasn't been done.

You simply can not be too careful - at least 8 out of 10 people I know - that contracted any building or remodeling out - wound up getting screwed because the "trusted" what the Contractor said. The only control you have - is to have your money only in your hand until things are done. Payments for Progress only when specified work is completed and lien releases are properly signed and in your hands.

good luck,
Carl B
here in Florida for the past 38 years..

 

[Mike007]

I just don't get it. I'm a contractor. I'm commonly told by customers they ve called X number of contractors and I'm the only one to return their call. Everytime I try to have something done by a contractor, I have issues. And these are guys I know. It took my electrician who is a personal friend of mine 6 weeks, 5 trips to my job, and dozens of phone calls from me to do a 1-1/2 days work. None will just take an entire job on and just do it. There is always things I have to do. I tried to hire a plumber I know to run drainage pipes from my back yard to the storm sewer in the street. No problem. All I have to do is call the town and find out exactly what permits are needed, get the permits, rent a machine to dig the trench, dig the trench, cut the street, dig up the storm sewer, and he'll do the rest. All the other stuff he doesn't do. I laughed, at that point I might as well just run the pipe myself and be done with it. And he complains he has no work. I could go on and on. I just don't get it.

 

[big.jim]

too much "not my job"im an electrician /gas engineer /plumber and i can lay blocks and roof, provided everything is done legal why wont people multitrade

 

[Cobra4B]

Dude who just moved in accross the street from me is trying to sell pyramid scheme phone/internet services. He keeps telling me he used to be a contractor making mid 6-figures but had to move to my part of town because he's going through a nasty divorce and gave up his $1,000,000 house on the beach. Guys seems sheisty... and way to try to sell my by telling me how much it ***** to have to move where I live.

**** like this is why I'm almost never satisfied when I don't do it myself. On my kitchen remodel I didn't want to do the backsplash. The guy who got the job was the only one who called back and asked for the business. Being in sales at one point in my life I respect that big time.

 

[4t64rd]

Get a contract where they get fined $50 a day after an agreed upon time frame for finishing the project... saved $4500 on a room addition because the contractor was a one of those contractors who would rather hook his boat trailer up to his truck than his construction trailer... He forgot that was in the contract and wanted to negotiate when he came for the last dispersment...

90 days over x $50 = $4500


Oh yeah, have them get their money from the bank as the inspections are done and you sign off on them... Otherwise, you get a half done building, they split...

Make sure the contractor has workmans comp on every sub that he hires, and provisions for the subs to go to the bathroom... you don't want roofers peeing in your bushes.

Speaking of subs and suppliers, get a list of all the subs and suppliers he plans on using, check to see if he pays them in 30 days... If he doesn't pay them, guess who gets to.... yup YOU!!!

Best thing you can do is be your own contractor here...

Welcome to Florida.

 

[HVAC Phil]

I almost never go out on estimates that was from the phonebook. Most of those are just cheap people getting tons of estimates to save $10. All my work comes from refferal, no flakes that way. When they call you, you know you will get the work. Customers who thumb thru phonebooks, most of the time are just kicking tires, looking for cheap. Not worth my time to look at the job.

 

[ddawg16]

Part of the problem is they can't find you.....can't even tell what state your in......

Put your location in your profile and you just might get some of the guys here to send you some contacts.....

 

[tonydanzah]

Part of the problem is they can't find you.....can't even tell what state your in......

Put your location in your profile and you just might get some of the guys here to send you some contacts.....

he said he was FL in his post

 

[ddawg16]

he said he was FL in his post

I've been trying to get my garage extended. I know exactly what I want, I've got the money set aside, I need a contractor to write up an estimate, file the permit and get going... I guess it's looking like the construction business is not as hungry for work as the media would have you believe...

Contractor#1 took 3 weeks to get me a ball park estimate (I asked for that to make sure I was not wasting his time... I wasn't). Then he doubled it with his final estimate, 4 weeks later. Oops.

Contractor #2 took 10 days before he could finally come by, 2 weeks for a ballpark estimate, got a green light to do a detailed one, it's been a month since, nothing.... "I passed by to look at something, I'm almost there"...

That's just the estimate, I can't even imagine how long it'll take them to actually build this, given the current speed. I guess my garage is not as juicy as a new home build... They're certainly not hurting for work in FL...

Too bad, I had it all set to go 4 months before my wife gave birth, now there's only 2 months left, and I'm screwed, won't happen in time (too noisy/messy) and this'll have to wait 6 months. Maybe they'll have an estimate by then ;-) Not impressed by the profession so far.

I guess I didn't look close enough....

 

[Zeke]

I've been a contractor for over 40 years. I got laid up with a bad back about 8 years ago and sold doors and windows to other contractors. Worst bunch of jerks I ever met. It wasn't that way when I was young and the job had lots of older guys there. Now, I'm the old guy and I hate most of the others that might show up.

Now, lets's take the customers. Since I am older, most of the customers will be younger. POS's, all of them. I've worked hard, been honest and done some nice work. Never been in court (except to sue another contractor) and never had a complaint to the state board. I deserve a modicum of respect. If I sense that someone is just gonna use me, I walk.

For example, I have been installing doors and windows since 1985. For a few years prior to that, I built some room additions and did interior remodeling. I also spent a couple years in commercial work. But it's been mainly residential work. During all those years I had countless numbers of neighbors stop me and ask for a card and to come over to give them a price. I never got any work that way, so I started telling folks to call me and we'll set up a time for that estimate.

Turns out, after I finally figured people out, that all most wanted was to know what their neighbor was spending. They just wanted to use me to get that information. That's how I see people any more.

You want some old cat like me to do nice work, be nice to me. If someone calls me and says that they've seen some of my work and they really like it, I listen. If the first thing out of their mouth is not how much will it cost, I listen. If they indicate that they are getting estimates to compare price against price, I tell them they should call Sears, Home Depot and Lowes.

I'll be busy hooking up my boat instead of my construction trailer.

 

[59 wagon man]

from a contractor's point of view
1- bathroom brought into job for a few days on the same job you want me to be the lowest priced guy but give you the best quality work.
2 - want your estimate quick tell the contractor whether or not i hire you present me with an estimate ill give you $100 cash. i'm pretty sure if a cust offered me that then i would be more inclined to believe he is serious and not wasting my time

 

[Goobzilla]

In before thread lock, we're already headed towards "all contractors are flakes" and "all customers are stupid" in only 16 posts. FWIW, I called 5 people that were actively advertising for work. I needed a day's worth of skid steer work and only one called me back and came out to see what I needed done. He did a great job and will be the only one I call when I'm putting my road in.

 

[denis4x4]

I've built or remodeled several homes that my wife and I have lived in over the years. Met with an architect yesterday to do one more remodel on our current home. We will be the general contractors and everything will be T&M. Since fast pay makes fast friends, we'll be using guys that have worked with us in the past. My rule of thumb is to double the estimate and add 50% and we'll be in the ball park! Too, we have preprinted lien releases and unless your dog can pound nails, leave him at home.

One last thought....a good contractor/builder is entitled to make a profit. Beat him too much and even if you don't see it right off, he'll get his pound of flesh.

 

[Zeke]

My T&M work is always cheaper than I'd like. I used to hear the joke about double and add a third. You must live in the high rent district.

 

[ForceFed70]

Have only had to deal with 2 different trades on the garage build so far and can see both sides.

Contractors: Please be honest and blunt. If you don't plan to put together a quote just say so. Yes, the yellow-pages referal might be a flake, but not always. Don't advertise if you don't want the customers your advertising brings in. Also... if you think I'm only going to get one quote then you're crazy. Maybe for a simple/inexpensive job, but if we're talking 1000's of dollars then I'm going to be talking to at least a couple of trades/contractors.

Customers: Please keep in mind that contractors/trades do get a lot of people wanting quotes who are not serious, or who have literally called everyone in the phone book. Finding out material prices, total work involved, etc for an accurate quote takes a lot of time. Time that they don't want to spend unless they think there is a good chance that they will get the job. Prove to them that you are a serious customer. Take out the permits, get drawings done (or do them yourself), etc. This is how a contractor knows if you are a window shopper or someone who is actually going to spend some money.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Have only had to deal with 2 different trades on the garage build so far and can see both sides.

Contractors: Please be honest and blunt. If you don't plan to put together a quote just say so. Yes, the yellow-pages referal might be a flake, but not always. Don't advertise if you don't want the customers your advertising brings in. Also... if you think I'm only going to get one quote then you're crazy. Maybe for a simple/inexpensive job, but if we're talking 1000's of dollars then I'm going to be talking to at least a couple of trades/contractors.

Customers: Please keep in mind that contractors/trades do get a lot of people wanting quotes who are not serious, or who have literally called everyone in the phone book. Finding out material prices, total work involved, etc for an accurate quote takes a lot of time. Time that they don't want to spend unless they think there is a good chance that they will get the job. Prove to them that you are a serious customer. Take out the permits, get drawings done (or do them yourself), etc. This is how a contractor knows if you are a window shopper or someone who is actually going to spend some money.

This is the best approach. realism.

 

[jay50]

Remember the from three letters in contractor is CON....and you will know who you are dealing with.

 

[Zeke]

Have only had to deal with 2 different trades on the garage build so far and can see both sides.

Contractors: Please be honest and blunt. If you don't plan to put together a quote just say so. Yes, the yellow-pages referal might be a flake, but not always. Don't advertise if you don't want the customers your advertising brings in. Also... if you think I'm only going to get one quote then you're crazy. Maybe for a simple/inexpensive job, but if we're talking 1000's of dollars then I'm going to be talking to at least a couple of trades/contractors.

Customers: Please keep in mind that contractors/trades do get a lot of people wanting quotes who are not serious, or who have literally called everyone in the phone book. Finding out material prices, total work involved, etc for an accurate quote takes a lot of time. Time that they don't want to spend unless they think there is a good chance that they will get the job. Prove to them that you are a serious customer. Take out the permits, get drawings done (or do them yourself), etc. This is how a contractor knows if you are a window shopper or someone who is actually going to spend some money.

That might be only part of the picture, but it's a good start. Let me add one:

Customers: Don't act like you could do this better yourself but you just don't have the time and it's really a favor to let someone else in on the job. Don't ask a painter how many gallons he is going to buy and how long he intends to spend on the job (anyone will see your little wheels turning in your little head). But do ask good questions like what brand of paint and how much should be stripped or simply sanded and how much needs to be primed. Then hold your painter to the agreement. (It was an example that can be used for many trades.)

Contractors: Be specific and detailed. Be prompt and call back when asked. Ask if any more information can be provided either by literature or references.

 

[6530]

It's just not a business that attracts high quality people.

Mark

You got that right.

 

[dlenkewich]

I almost never go out on estimates that was from the phonebook. Most of those are just cheap people getting tons of estimates to save $10. All my work comes from refferal, no flakes that way. When they call you, you know you will get the work. Customers who thumb thru phonebooks, most of the time are just kicking tires, looking for cheap. Not worth my time to look at the job.

Unfortunatley this speaks truth.

I used to put ad's out. Probably 1 out of 20 contacts would turn into a job. The rest were just looking to get a quote to use against the next guy. I don't mind answering questions and peoples concerns, but you put an ad out and you can spend most of your day on the phone to end up without the job. It doesn't pay to be on the phone, and I won't allow my work/schedule to suffer because of it.

That being said, I've never not returned a call from someone who left me a message. I spent 2 weeks playing phone tag with someone who wouldnt leave a message, and any time I called back, I didn't know who I was looking for, and the answer was "Well it was probably 'soandso', he's out right now.".

 

[dlenkewich]

I'm with you on that Milt, 100%.
Work for people that consider you a friend yet pay you like a professional.

Spot on sir!!!!!

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I think anybody hiring out work should always get 3 prices, because in this business the prices vary a lot as much as 100% I don't think that it is unfair to the contractors.
when i had my 36x64x14 barn build last fall I got 3 prices: 21,800, 22,800 and 31,500.....i don't like taking the lowest price so I call the 2nd guy at 22,800 and told him I had a price of 21,800 and I just wanted to compare apples to apples , never once did I ask him to lower his price, after we were done comparing his quote to the first guy he was giving me a door that was worth $500 more and since he was a local guy I thought I'd go with him. I called him 4 times to give him the job, he never called me back......I don't think asking what he had in his quote was unfair, but after I thought about it I think he missed something in his bid and just didn't want the job.........but hey he could have called me back.
So I went with the lowest price and it worked out ok. The difference I think was the lowest guy builds 20-30 barns a year and the highest guy told me he only builds a few so he's not going to be efficent.

 

[jcp907]

They certainly aren't all flaky. My dad was a contractor in CT for many years. In the several years that it took me to realize I didn't want to follow in his footsteps, MAYBE 3 jobs came from the phone book. The majority of his customers came from referrals, and repeat business, including Stew Leonard and Paul Newman. Ring up the people you know and ask if they have had work done, or if they know of someone that has had work done, that they are happy with. Find out what they did, and who, then give those guys a call.

With that said, I have a lot of friends in construction. PM me if you are in Central Florida (Seminole/Orange/Volusia/Lake Counties). I can put you in touch with a GC, or subs, that I have or would use, if you want. If you are in South FL. I have friends down there that might be able to refer someone to you.

 

[Beaumont67]

As a home owner, anything I build (custom garage, sun room, cedar deck, new floors, roof, windows, doors, insulation, siding, kitchen, bathroom, tile work, etc.) I am the general contractor and get involved too an **** degree.
- I do my own design work
- I pull my own permits, and meet the building inspector directly
- I do my own bill of materials
- I spec out all materials, and purchase with a contractor discount, from the lumber yard
- I pickup all materials, with my 3/4 ton truck
- I make trips to the garbage dump, with my truck & gas (no garbage bin rentals)
- I make decisions quickly, on the spot
- I have also put on free lunch BBQ daily, for my good workers / and provide coffee &/or cold pop
(a way of showing my sincere thanks and respect, for the trades)

I KEEP-IT-SIMPLE, for the skill trades, working for me.
They can concentrate on the job at hand, as I do the running around, to keep my costs down.

I have never-ever entered into a legal signed contract or asked for a waste-of-my-time inflated quote.
Professionals like working for me because they get paid in cash (daily or weekly, their choice).
Paying T&M works for me and I've made some great personal friends, in the carpenter trades.
- they don't get rich off me, but they get paid very well and quick / everyone wins and nobody gets stiffed $$
- I tend to over-spec. build and I have never asked a professional to cut corners / just the opposite & they like the skill set I seek and challenges of the job and my appreciation, in a job well done
- I own the materials and everyone always gets paid for their labor, the way I do it and I'm not wasting contractors time or effort on free estimates

My last finish carpenter had 4 rescue dogs and insisted my Dobe AMY, come to the hickory plank floor install.
How nice to meet special people and build a lasting friendship...Very rewarding to be involved, in the projects.


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1965 Malibu S/S, 1966 Beaumont Custom original paint, 1967 Beaumont Custom, 1967 Beaumont Custom original paint, 1967 Beaumont 396-350HP Sport Deluxe M21-411's - SOLD 1970 Judge

 

[Mike007]

As a home owner, anything I build (custom garage, sun room, cedar deck, new floors, roof, windows, doors, insulation, siding, kitchen, bathroom, tile work, etc.) I am the general contractor and get involved too an **** degree.
- I do my own design work
- I pull my own permits, and meet the building inspector directly
- I do my own bill of materials
- I spec out all materials, and purchase with a contractor discount, from the lumber yard
- I pickup all materials, with my 3/4 ton truck
- I make trips to the garbage dump, with my truck & gas (no garbage bin rentals)
- I make decisions quickly, on the spot
- I have also put on free lunch BBQ daily, for my good workers / and provide coffee &/or cold pop
(a way of showing my sincere thanks and respect, for the trades)

Thats great, if you have that kind of time. As a contractor myself, I don't. When I need something done I can't hold the hand of another contractor and lead them. I just need the job done. Thats how I operate my business, unfortunately most contractors do not. I needed some tile work recently on a rental property. I picked out the tile and called a guy who was recommended to me. He gives me a price and then proceeds to tell me this long list of materials and supplies I needed to acquire. I ended up going with someone else because he was willing to just do the job without my help.

 

[Mike007]

And how about this. This is not BS. Same condo, its summer I'm busy as hell, I hire a sheetrock contractor. The guy comes out and rocks the place, calls me to get paid. I meet him at the job and no taping or spackling is done. I ask what the deal is and he informs me he only installs sheetrock, he does not tape or spackle. And in fact cannot do it. Would have been nice if he told me in advance, but whatever. I hire a guy to tape and spackle. He's done, go to pay the guy, he didn't do any sanding. He doesn't do that, he only tapes and spackles. I guess it's my fault for not asking.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Mike, what the heck kind of nuts are you hiring?
Do they have will work for food signs on them? Jeez.

 

[Mike007]

Mike, what the heck kind of nuts are you hiring?
Do they have will work for food signs on them? Jeez.

It wouldn't surprise me. I had to fire the painter too. He was a close friend of mine literally since 1st grade. He was holding the job up and would not return to finish. Everyday was different excuse. I hired a contractor to put down flooring and install kitchen cabinets. Another friend of mine. Said he really needed the work. Worked 1/2 a day in 3 weeks. He lived 1/2 mile from the job, so on my way there I would pass his home and see his truck was there. Same thing, one excuse after another. Finally hired someone else to finish. I settled up with him and he was angery about it and we are no longer friends.

The State of NJ got involved in home improvement contracting a few years ago because of nonsense like this. We now have a HIC license. Certain things are required to be on all contracts or they are not legal. One is a start and completion date. If thats not on the contract and it goes to court, the contractor automatically loses.

 

[Deschodt]

The problem is YOU. YOU need to be persistent. YOU need to get your permit process rolling. YOU need to get multiple estimates.

Pissed? Good now use that to get your *** motivated and rolling.

[...] This guy lost me straight away with the insinuation that all contractors are sitting per Nancy Grace or CNN. Most contractors that have been doing this for a few years have more skill at detecting exactly what kind of guy you are than Sigmund Froid

Who, me ? Well excuse me for insinuating, and excuse you for assuming I project the wrong vibes somehow... All I meant was that all we hear in the news is that the construction sector is in the crapper, yet here I am, serious customer, project funded, *not* looking for a cheapie job, ready to go. Yet it's been over 2 months and I still don't have the inkling of a beginning of a build. I think it might be easier to sell my house and buy one with a bigger garage.

As for "you should do this, You should do that", well, I disagree... I am a professional at what I do, and that is NOT construction. I know enough to hire professionals at what they do. I expect the contractor to have something for me in order to pull the permit, like, I don't know... maybe a blueprint or something? I don't build home additions for a living.
I should also point out it's not a hard one. One wall, one flat roof, one hole in my garage back wall to pass-thru, a concrete floor. I've got everything else lined up (plumbing and A/C) awaiting the construction.

Good to see Milt in that thread, I'd hire him in a heartbeat because I know him from lots of years on Pelican...

I'm not taking a shot at the entire profession, I'm (rightfully, I think) expressing my surprise that it's been almost 3 months now and I still haven't got the second estimate, or the beginning of a project. I thought people wanted to work ;-) From this thread, I see I am not alone.

Other than that, thank you everyone else for the useful info on legal aspect and time to pull a permit. If it really takes 6 months, $%#$% me !!!!! I was hoping for a quicker turnaround. Damn !

 

[ddrewyor]

Had to jump in on this one -
I have had good luck and bad luck with contractors and I typically work the same way. I figure out a rough design, look at material prices, and try to estimate labor. This way I have an idea of the cost and save accordingly. Then I get with 3-5 contractors to get timing, an estimate and references. Its a tossup on whether I pull the permits. I usually come close and have the money in hand for the project and pay as we go. Sometimes it worked out and sometimes not so much.
I finally came up with a solution that works every time - I hire the same Amish crew that has a great work ethic, sense of pride, and does quality work. I find that they are never the cheapest or the highest, but that's okay because they get it done, done right, and done right on time.
Forget the other clowns that say they are builders or contractors. They can go fish and the world will be a better place.

Dave

 

[59 wagon man]

try servicemagic.com it is how i get a lot of work and at least a contractor needs to provide proper paperwork to advertise unlike the yellow pages

 

[brslk]

Yeah YOU!
YOU want something? YOU have to figure out how to get it. YOU can not just wait for another to get his ducks in line, They're your ducks.
You can't get frustrated, you have to push through the thing, you have to make it happen.
Yes I'm harsh, You're not in this profession is no excuse. And yes it may take months, persistent months of back and forth and negotiations with the city contractors etc.
And the most challenging thing is that through all of it, those that get the most done have a calm and serene outer corona that keeps from scaring off all of the potential partners in the project.
So yes YOU, all intended as insight not insult.
Now gather yourself and get YOUR project accomplished.
If you wait for others to call you back you will never get anything done.
Put a date target reward upon your project. A compensation for a project done on time on budget and per spec of 5 to 10%.
Get in the car and go hunting good contractors.
Get in the car and go ring door bells on recently completed projects and get the names of the guys who did them.
YOU can do IT.

I am amazed you have any customers... or friends...

I hire someone to do things I don't have the time or skill to do.

When I am paying someone, It isn't my job to sell myself to them. It is their job.

YOU failed business 101.

Do YOU go out and research what restaurant has the best beef and the best servers and then put out quotes when you want a burger?

I shake my head at you Frank...

 

[isaac338]

I am amazed you have any customers... or friends...

I hire someone to do things I don't have the time or skill to do.

When I am paying someone, It isn't my job to sell myself to them. It is their job.

YOU failed business 101.

Do YOU go out and research what restaurant has the best beef and the best servers and then put out quotes when you want a burger?

I shake my head at you Frank...

Agreed. Not many other industries would be cool with the customer taking charge like that.

How often do techs gripe on here about customers that "know it all" about their car repairs?

 

[scott_one]

I had a salesman from a window company stop by my house one day, they were installing windows in another house in the neighborhood. Ask me if I wanted a price on new windows.
I had only been in my house for about 4 months, it's 38 yrs old so I said yea I might consider new windows. So he looked around at how many I had and said he would send someone over for measurements and quote it for me.

...nobody ever came back...

 

[dlenkewich]

Frank isn't telling you to do the job.

He's saying be pro-active about finding the right people to get the job done.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I had a salesman from a window company stop by my house one day, they were installing windows in another house in the neighborhood. Ask me if I wanted a price on new windows.
I had only been in my house for about 4 months, it's 38 yrs old so I said yea I might consider new windows. So he looked around at how many I had and said he would send someone over for measurements and quote it for me.

...nobody ever came back...

Maybe he died or something.

 

[scott_one]

Maybe he died or something.

I guess that's a possibility I hadn't considered.....