What recession? Flaky contractors...

[John in OH]

I almost never go out on estimates that was from the phonebook. Most of those are just cheap people getting tons of estimates to save $10. All my work comes from refferal, no flakes that way. When they call you, you know you will get the work. Customers who thumb thru phonebooks, most of the time are just kicking tires, looking for cheap. Not worth my time to look at the job.

You gotta be kidding!!

First, I assume the "phonebook" that you refer to is the yellow pages. If you don't respond to calls from the yellow pages ad, why bother putting an ad in the yellow pages??

Second, I recently moved to a new area and I don't know any local contractors. I have a substantial detached garage to build and the only way for me to find a contractor is to find one from the yellow pages ... I don't know anyone local to ask for referrals. So, assuming that I'm not a flake, you must not be interested in doing my work since I don't have a referral.

Third, you say, "When they call you, you know you will get the work." Don't you have any courage to go out on a limb and make bids on jobs where you aren't guaranteed of winning the bid? Any REAL business professional knows that you win a few bids and you lose a few bids. That's the way life is. If you are good at what you do, your wins will outnumber your losses and your business will grow. But ya gotta grow a pair and take some chances.

Fourth, I can assure you that I will only give a job to a contractor that appears competent, honest, provides a competitive bid, and SHOWS INTEREST IN DOING MY JOB! If you don't show an earnest interest in my job, I'm sure not going to be interested in hiring you.

 

[Colonial Cobra]

Your permit process is going to take longer than 6 months in most cases.

The recession does not have as many of us awaiting your call with baited breathe as is blogged on the main page of your computer.

The problem is YOU. YOU need to be persistent. YOU need to get your permit process rolling. YOU need to get multiple estimates. YOU need to get the job done when it can be done, no excuses, a baby could sleep through anything.

One thing that will not work is being a guy who blames all others. No one wants to work for one, deal with one, read about one.

Hike them up, get out there and find your contractors and get your job done. Start asking all your pals who they used. Look in the church bulletin, cruise your hood looking for ongoing jobs, they're already in your area, keep them there for another week or so.

**** starts, finishes and ends with YOU. If YOU do not have the drive, bravado and initiative to get your **** done for your own benefit, WTF would anyone else?

Pissed? Good now use that to get your *** motivated and rolling.
Get going so we can read about your build thread.

Wow, That may work in Chicago,, But you'd be out of business in months down here.

We get permits in a few weeks not months. Most are issued within days.

This is a very high income area,,,If you don't cater to your customers you will not get the job, and you better be done on time or have obvious reasons that you are not.

And the prblem is NEVER the Customers. It's always the contractors. #1 rule in business.

Good luck,,,Just don't move away from Chicago with that attitude.

 

[Zeke]

You gotta be kidding!!

First, I assume the "phonebook" that you refer to is the yellow pages. If you don't respond to calls from the yellow pages ad, why bother putting an ad in the yellow pages??

Second, I recently moved to a new area and I don't know any local contractors. I have a substantial detached garage to build and the only way for me to find a contractor is to find one from the yellow pages ... I don't know anyone local to ask for referrals. So, assuming that I'm not a flake, you must not be interested in doing my work since I don't have a referral.

Third, you say, "When they call you, you know you will get the work." Don't you have any courage to go out on a limb and make bids on jobs where you aren't guaranteed of winning the bid? Any REAL business professional knows that you win a few bids and you lose a few bids. That's the way life is. If you are good at what you do, your wins will outnumber your losses and your business will grow. But ya gotta grow a pair and take some chances.

Fourth, I can assure you that I will only give a job to a contractor that appears competent, honest, provides a competitive bid, and SHOWS INTEREST IN DOING MY JOB! If you don't show an earnest interest in my job, I'm sure not going to be interested in hiring you.

You make some good points. Do know though, that phone companies and now a slew of Internet sites will list a business name whether they pay or not. Those listings build the book and are usually not in bold type, in a box or otherwise enhanced. But, they are there.

I've practiced much of what you say for 40 years. I think what Frank and HVAC are saying it that seasoned contractors learn to read customers. Now you may very well know what to say when you call someone from the Yellow Pages, but when I hear, "Do you give free estimates?" as the first question, I think of how many times I went out in the first few years on these call and how few, if any, jobs I got at any cost.

Mostly, people who make those calls already have someone in mind, they just want to verify the price they already have. And they will find any reason to not hire the "yellow page" guy even if he is cheaper. In fact, being cheaper is one of the ways to lose the job. But, if you're higher, well.... You can't win if they have pre selected someone.

As you can see, it's not a matter of courage, it's a matter of experience and wisdom.

BTW, if you have something to build, why not ask each contractor about other contractors? You don't have to blindly "let your fingers do the walking."

 

[Zeke]

I had a salesman from a window company stop by my house one day, they were installing windows in another house in the neighborhood. Ask me if I wanted a price on new windows.
I had only been in my house for about 4 months, it's 38 yrs old so I said yea I might consider new windows. So he looked around at how many I had and said he would send someone over for measurements and quote it for me.

...nobody ever came back...

He wasn't a salesman if he didn't take the info on your windows right then and there and ask you what you wanted to buy.

 

[JohnFreeman]

"The problem is YOU. "

The customer is always wrong.

 

[danski0224]

And the prblem is NEVER the Customers. It's always the contractors. #1 rule in business.

Uh Huh.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

I have been a contractor for 19 years and 3rd generation Plumber.

We do mostly Commercial work. Our residential Customers are referals, we have a small line in the phone book.

As soon as we hear Home Depot, Lowes, etc we know we have a shopper with out the funds to do the job properly. I say save up a few more dollars and hire a professional ..they are out there but they are difficult to locate because they have isolated them selves from the shoppers and free estimates.

First hire someone with a license to protect YOU.

Next ask friends and family for referals ... and look for a quality job ... if your budget is shy ask what LABOR you can perfrom your self .. a plumber will be happy for you to dig or chop or cleanup.

Business are running lean in offices and the field because money is tight. Pay on time and get lien waivers and inspections.

My 2 Cents.

 

[fyrlt1]

The customer who calls two guys does no follow up calls and then is perplexed about why the his job is not getting done is absolutely wrong.

You can not expect to get anything done in this world without being persistent.

If you think your work is going to get done just because you have some to do, it's not.

My point to the OP is that he has to put some effort into hunting down some one who will do a quality job for him. The less time and effort he puts into finding quality the less quality he will get. I'm trying to inspire him.

Every one wants to be GC to save the money. They want to call the GC a thief for making a living. Then when they can't get their job done they want to moan about it. Well maybe that GC actually did something for that mark up.

Oh and I love these guys who think that just cause they live in an area where there's a few bucks that they should get special treatment. OOOHHHH I have a driveway with white marble pavers...OOOOHHhhhhhhhh.....It's your privilege to be in my presence....kiss my ring....peasant.....I'm a distant relation to Lord Frothy Buns.
Those guys are the last ones you want to work for. They got all that coin cause they never let any of it drop.

you should probably check the phone book for mental health professionals in your area. I can't believe that anyone with your attitude toward the customer could earn a living in a customer service trade. You seem to be the one with the elitist attitude, not the wealthy people you so casually dismiss in your post above. Based on your declarations you only want to deal with poor people that are willing to chase you down, heap praise upon you, ask no questions of you and be ready with an open checkbook and tons of gratitude. Nice business model dude. By the way, you are averaging about 200 posts per month on this forum, no wonder you don't go out on estimates, who has the time?

 

[mrobins297aaa]

Frank I think you've set a few to many toilets........Time to retire?

 

[Worsedog]

Your permit process is going to take longer than 6 months in most cases.

The recession does not have as many of us awaiting your call with baited breathe as is blogged on the main page of your computer.

The problem is YOU. YOU need to be persistent. YOU need to get your permit process rolling. YOU need to get multiple estimates. YOU need to get the job done when it can be done, no excuses, a baby could sleep through anything.

One thing that will not work is being a guy who blames all others. No one wants to work for one, deal with one, read about one.

Hike them up, get out there and find your contractors and get your job done. Start asking all your pals who they used. Look in the church bulletin, cruise your hood looking for ongoing jobs, they're already in your area, keep them there for another week or so.

**** starts, finishes and ends with YOU. If YOU do not have the drive, bravado and initiative to get your **** done for your own benefit, WTF would anyone else?

Pissed? Good now use that to get your *** motivated and rolling.
Get going so we can read about your build thread.

Who, me ? Well excuse me for insinuating, and excuse you for assuming I project the wrong vibes somehow... All I meant was that all we hear in the news is that the construction sector is in the crapper, yet here I am, serious customer, project funded, *not* looking for a cheapie job, ready to go. Yet it's been over 2 months and I still don't have the inkling of a beginning of a build. I think it might be easier to sell my house and buy one with a bigger garage.

As for "you should do this, You should do that", well, I disagree... I am a professional at what I do, and that is NOT construction. I know enough to hire professionals at what they do. I expect the contractor to have something for me in order to pull the permit, like, I don't know... maybe a blueprint or something? I don't build home additions for a living.
I should also point out it's not a hard one. One wall, one flat roof, one hole in my garage back wall to pass-thru, a concrete floor. I've got everything else lined up (plumbing and A/C) awaiting the construction.

Good to see Milt in that thread, I'd hire him in a heartbeat because I know him from lots of years on Pelican...

I'm not taking a shot at the entire profession, I'm (rightfully, I think) expressing my surprise that it's been almost 3 months now and I still haven't got the second estimate, or the beginning of a project. I thought people wanted to work ;-) From this thread, I see I am not alone.

Other than that, thank you everyone else for the useful info on legal aspect and time to pull a permit. If it really takes 6 months, $%#$% me !!!!! I was hoping for a quicker turnaround. Damn !

Yeah YOU!
YOU want something? YOU have to figure out how to get it. YOU can not just wait for another to get his ducks in line, They're your ducks.
You can't get frustrated, you have to push through the thing, you have to make it happen.
Yes I'm harsh, You're not in this profession is no excuse. And yes it may take months, persistent months of back and forth and negotiations with the city contractors etc.
And the most challenging thing is that through all of it, those that get the most done have a calm and serene outer corona that keeps from scaring off all of the potential partners in the project.
So yes YOU, all intended as insight not insult.
Now gather yourself and get YOUR project accomplished.
If you wait for others to call you back you will never get anything done.
Put a date target reward upon your project. A compensation for a project done on time on budget and per spec of 5 to 10%.
Get in the car and go hunting good contractors.
Get in the car and go ring door bells on recently completed projects and get the names of the guys who did them.
YOU can do IT.

You know Frank most of the time I agree your opinions, but your attitude about what I should do is way wrong. When I call somebody to do work for me it is because I cannot do it. The reason is immaterial.

If I call a contractor to do a job, I expect him/her to do the entire job. From providing an estimate to putting the last screw in. When that last screw is in I'm right there ready to pay for a job well done. I don't expect to manage the job, worry about material delivery, etc. that is what I expect that I am paying for.

I expect an estimate so I will have a close idea of what the project will cost, I can ballpark **** on my own, but we all know how close those estimates are. I want properly specified materials, scopes of work, timelines,etc. It's not like building something is troubleshooting some screwy symtoms. I would not necessarily expect the cost to match the estimate exactly because I understand the real world of change. But I also am not handing out blank checks and saying go to it.

As far as permits, prints, and codes, that is what I'm paying for your expertise. That is your job, not mine. My job is to pay for it when it's done.

I design and build radio and telephone system that span states. If I were to build one for you would you expect to design it? Would you pull permits and worry about codes and enviromental issues, land use rules, etc. in 40 or 50 counties or two or three states? I didn't think so. You would tell me what you wanted it to be capable of and I would build it. But wait you would expect a quote wouldn't you? You wouldn't just hand me your check book and say go to it.

Sorry for the rant, it is just that when I am paying for the job, that is what I want, the whole job, no chasing around, no repeated call backs, basically no ********.

My garage re-roof I just had done is what sets me off about poor customer service. I called three local contractors, because three estimates is the standard I am used to, because I know when I quote a system there will be a minimum of three bidders.

The garage is 1450 sqft so its like roofing a small house not a 20x20 shed. We set appointments, I took time off work to be sure I was there so there would be no questions or confusion. The first two never showed, not even a courtesy "I can't make the appointment" call. After waiting two hours I called their offices, I got every excuse from the truck broke down to "oh we couldn't find which house on the street" it was. Hmmm, two houses on my street and only one has a huge garge in the back yard.......... I guess your cell phone broke too because it felt sorry for the truck.

The third guy I called made the appointment five minutes early, measured, asked what I wanted, and said he would send me the estimate with options within the week. Two days later the estimate was actually hand delivered. It was for the whole job, permit, debris removal, all materials, clean up, everything. My part of the job was to pay for it at completion. The cost was less than 2/3 of what I thought it would and the job was beautifully executed.

You can bet your *** I have recommend him repeatedly. As for the other two, I wouldn't piss on their shops if they were on fire.

I pride myself on thorough proffessional design and build in my job and I see no reason not to expect it from those that I hire.

 

[srmofo]

I would just like an honest response if they are not interested in giving me a quote. Thats all.

I must have called 15 concrete guys to do my garage foundation. Only 2 showed up to take measurements and see the grade. A couple answered my call but were rude. Several others wouldnt return any of my 4 calls. Yes I made 4 calls to each guy before I axed them off the list. Several days between the first 3 calls and then 1 final call the day after. I dont think I got a single returned phone call to be honest

I let them all know I had the money ready to go and wanted it down by "x" date. I told them I had already demo'd the old garage and wanted the new one up before bad weather hit.

The guy that got the job had a nice color brochure with alist a references and pics. He came with all the legal peperwork for insurance and lien stuff. I read through the contract and contacted him the next day. The foundation was done in 10 days.

Good guys are out there just keep looking. IMO if they cant get back to you in a timely fashion then you dont want them anyway.

 

[brookscooper]

Just a quick data point - started excavation for my garage basement Friday. (I will open a build thread soon).
Concrete guy is my designer's BinLaw so I said to him "who should I use to excavate?" He says "this guy - already called him - it's an $8,500 job to excavate and dispose of the fill." I said - "if you say he's the guy - tell him to start."

During the job he comments that we haven't hit any rock like he expected so it's going faster than he estimated and will thus be cheaper. yeah! says I.

During the job the alternator fails on his bigger excavator - while he runs the small one I extract the alternator and start calling around to find him a replacement.
And I had coffee and donuts for him and his crew both mornings of the dig and beer at day's end.

My deal with concrete guy is he owns all aspects of getting the basement and main deck poured, waterproofed and inspected and I pay at the end. Wellll, excavator figures I'm a rich guy (I live in the poor part of town but I do ok salary wise so I'm not rich but I have some expendable cash - I wouldn't be doing a basement in my garage otherwise!) and totals up the "cost of the job" and tells me - 1) He needs to be paid right away; 2) The cost is $16,400 but he'll give me a break and let it go for $12,00.

I say "what about $8,500 as quoted to concrete guy?" He says "mumble mumble - truck charges, mumble mumble extra rock at dump site." I say "you said it was going better so shouldn't it be LESS than $8,500?" He finally says "$10,000 is the bottom line number."

You have to be kidding - right? No. He's serious. He's made me for a mark and wants his cut.

Un be F@#$ lievable.

Called the concrete guy, told him the tale. Last time he'll ever use this guy and I'm paying him $8,500 - which, according to him is a bit on the high side.

WHY would you do that in this economy, if ever???

OH, AND - he never gave me the required lien notices so if he's unhappy with $8,500 his only recourse is a plain old lawsuit with no lien foreclosure rights.
Geez

 

[HVAC Phil]

You gotta be kidding!!

First, I assume the "phonebook" that you refer to is the yellow pages. If you don't respond to calls from the yellow pages ad, why bother putting an ad in the yellow pages??

Second, I recently moved to a new area and I don't know any local contractors. I have a substantial detached garage to build and the only way for me to find a contractor is to find one from the yellow pages ... I don't know anyone local to ask for referrals. So, assuming that I'm not a flake, you must not be interested in doing my work since I don't have a referral.

Third, you say, "When they call you, you know you will get the work." Don't you have any courage to go out on a limb and make bids on jobs where you aren't guaranteed of winning the bid? Any REAL business professional knows that you win a few bids and you lose a few bids. That's the way life is. If you are good at what you do, your wins will outnumber your losses and your business will grow. But ya gotta grow a pair and take some chances.

Fourth, I can assure you that I will only give a job to a contractor that appears competent, honest, provides a competitive bid, and SHOWS INTEREST IN DOING MY JOB! If you don't show an earnest interest in my job, I'm sure not going to be interested in hiring you.

I can always tell which customers are dead leads. There are alot that are just price shopping, putting tons of bids against each other.
Winning and losing bids is one thing, but having my estimate in the pile with tons of others is another thing. I've had people call and say, "the last guy gave me this for this price", which seems low, without even seeing the job. I tell them, "that's a good price, go with that". There isn't a reason to even look at the job, i know i'm dealing with a tightass.
Oh by the way, i keep the add in the yellowpages to be proffessional, 75% of my work comes from past work. I started my business off of side work, one job led to another. Before i knew it, i didn't have time to work the regular 40hr a week job. I went on my own, never looked back.

 

[tj2]

Yeah YOU!
YOU want something? YOU have to figure out how to get it. YOU can not just wait for another to get his ducks in line, They're your ducks.
You can't get frustrated, you have to push through the thing, you have to make it happen.
Yes I'm harsh, You're not in this profession is no excuse. And yes it may take months, persistent months of back and forth and negotiations with the city contractors etc.
And the most challenging thing is that through all of it, those that get the most done have a calm and serene outer corona that keeps from scaring off all of the potential partners in the project.
So yes YOU, all intended as insight not insult.
Now gather yourself and get YOUR project accomplished.
If you wait for others to call you back you will never get anything done.
Put a date target reward upon your project. A compensation for a project done on time on budget and per spec of 5 to 10%.
Get in the car and go hunting good contractors.
Get in the car and go ring door bells on recently completed projects and get the names of the guys who did them.
YOU can do IT.

Are you serious?

I'm in business for myself (own my own company), and that attitude wouldn't even *begin* to fly around here. And I deal with customers who are way flakier than you'd even believe.

If he knew enough to do all that you suggest, he'd be in the business. When I have work done, I get bids. People who don't submit a bid, don't call back, etc., don't get the work. Simple as that.

Since you sign yourself as a plumber and you live in Chicago, I'm going to guess you're a member of the local union. Maybe I'd have your approach if I was part of a group that had a lock on all work in an area, and we could approve or not approve any competition (i.e. new members). But I have to compete out in the real world, against anyone who feels that they have the skills to do the same work. I'm no union-basher, but it's stuff like this that gives them a bad name.

 

[porphyre]

The customer who calls two guys does no follow up calls and then is perplexed about why the his job is not getting done is absolutely wrong.

You can not expect to get anything done in this world without being persistent.

If you think your work is going to get done just because you have some to do, it's not.

My point to the OP is that he has to put some effort into hunting down some one who will do a quality job for him. The less time and effort he puts into finding quality the less quality he will get. I'm trying to inspire him.

Every one wants to be GC to save the money. They want to call the GC a thief for making a living. Then when they can't get their job done they want to moan about it. Well maybe that GC actually did something for that mark up.

Oh and I love these guys who think that just cause they live in an area where there's a few bucks that they should get special treatment. OOOHHHH I have a driveway with white marble pavers...OOOOHHhhhhhhhh.....It's your privilege to be in my presence....kiss my ring....peasant.....I'm a distant relation to Lord Frothy Buns.
Those guys are the last ones you want to work for. They got all that coin cause they never let any of it drop.

Damn. Remind me not to hire you for anything. Your first three paragraphs show your lack of pride in your work. Combine them with the last sentence of your post and it really seems like you want to do the least amount of work possible, have your customer twist your arm to do that work, then get paid richly for it.

Reminds me of that thread in Free Parking a couple weeks back about the guy who had some migrant doing yard work and the migrant asked for a tip!

 

[lynam]

here's a cookie because your the best.

 

[porphyre]

Guess you can't argue with a union guy...they live in a different world...

 

[pprince]

In the last year I have fired:

- my hvac guy, who was a friend. Never could: complete job, start another job. New guy is fantastic. I need him I get him. I never ask for prices. I just pay what is bills me.
- fired my lazy ***, incompetent lawyer. I have not found a good replacement.
- fired my lazy real estate agent. New guy is fantastic. Bought 2 more rental properties using him
- fired my incompetent insurance broker after finding my last property was not insured for 8 months after I bought it. New broker is so far is going fine.
- my mortgage broker, who was a friend. I almost lost a deal over his screw ups. Got a new one all lined up.

I cannot understand how any and all of these people stay in business. I pay good money and expect people to do what they are paid for. They are the experts at what they do. Do it! And communicate when you can't so we are a team solving problems.

 

[Zeke]

And the moral to this whole thread is people get burned out, complacent or whatever but forget to know when to fold their hand.

If you can hire the experience and get all the other things you wish contractors would do for a good price, don't wait around to see if it will get any better.

I just wish I could get all customers to answer the door and/or the phone when I'm expected, pay w/o comment and leave the immediate area of the work to the workers. Amongst other things.

I can tell you story after story all day and night, but I'll share just one to make a point.

Years ago, I was a painting contractor. When doing interiors I, of course, laid out drop cloths throughout the work area. Most of the time customers thought nothing of parading through the area going about their business as if nothing was going on.

They'd walk over small drops of wet paint but not scuff their feet at the cloth's edge tracking paint on to bare floors. Then they'd blame the painters for the mess. They let their dogs do this too and more than once a dog has brushed a wet area. This has to be let to dry, sanded and recoated. Do painters get an extra for that? F no.

People are basically numb and stupid when it comes to having anything different going on at their home. It gets worse every year. A few out of a hundred actually go out of their way to accommodate contractors but most consider having work done a big nuisance.

After a couple dozen years at it, you can pretty much tell which ones will and which ones won't. Or as the rock group Supertramp sang, "Some they will and some they won't and some you just can't tell."

 

[sberry]

I would do it myself you understand,,, but I don't have the tools and don't know how,,,, but other than that I would do it myself you understand,,,,, and I don't have a garage either,,, but other than that I would do it myself.

 

[southpier]

It's just not a business that attracts high quality people.

Mark

as clients or workers?

 

[srmofo]

Frank, I understand where you are coming from completely, I just wish I could get some honesty. All they need to say is "im not interested" No reason needs to be given.

Ive done this several times in the past with my lawn business and auto work on the side. And you know I will still get phone calls back for other work later down the road. You think they would find someone else, but they just keep coming back...I guess being honest with your customers earns something money cant buy.

 

[neonnblack]

Oh and I love these guys who think that just cause they live in an area where there's a few bucks that they should get special treatment. OOOHHHH I have a driveway with white marble pavers...OOOOHHhhhhhhhh.....It's your privilege to be in my presence....kiss my ring....peasant.....I'm a distant relation to Lord Frothy Buns.
.

To lighten the mood in this thread: thanks for the new sig.

 

[Holedgr]

From a homeowners point of view.....Frank is an arrogant jackass. I see why you guys are commenting the way you are. However, after 20+ years of dealing with what he posts about.....

I am right there with him. I have NO trouble getting work. I do however have trouble with getting work with snobs. I show up not looking like a salesman, but a guy who's gonna be there working alside my guys. Don't like it. DON'T hire me.

You guys who seem to be so ethical and all, try putting yourself in a contractor's shoes...for a change.


Kind Regards,

Tony

 

[padstack]

As much as I think I probably should just stay out of this, it all comes down to how you go to market. Do you want to cater to a specific group (i.e. Frank and the elderly women)? That's cool. It's your right. Are you a homeowner who is trying to get it done for the lowest price? That's cool too. Just like there are Kia's and Bentley's out there, there are people who perform services at different levels/prices. What I don't get it why people feel the need to turn it into a ******* contest. At the beginning of this thread, a guy wanted to know why people wouldn't call him back. Obviously several people have had a similar experience. An isolated few contractors got mad and took it to heart. In my job, I have a certain customer niche that I cater to. Occasionally customers outside that niche come asking me for help with either design or product (several of which I know are trying to use me to design a system and go somewhere else to buy product). I don't get all pissed when people shop me. It's just how it is (although I'm lucky enough that in my line of work I have the ability to design in proprietary product that only my company can provide). I just don't play the game, and yes there are some that I will just tell up front that I'm probably not their best option. Rarely does either myself or a customer get this angry over it.

In the end, both parties have to win or it isn't worth it for either. This thread is full of anecdotal information about the best and worst of both sides, but when it boils down to it, isn't helpful for anyone since unless another member is going to use a specific contractor (or work for a specific customer) mentioned in this thread, their experience will differ. I'm lucky. I've yet to have a bad contractor experience, but does that mean anything to anyone on here? Probably not.

I would just consider it unfortunate if this a newbie's first impression of this forum was this thread.


**edited b/c I quoted another post instead of replied to the thread and didn't want that person to think I was specifically talking to him**

 

[porphyre]

I do however have trouble with getting work with snobs. I show up not looking like a salesman, but a guy who's gonna be there working alside my guys. Don't like it. DON'T hire me.

It's not snobbery to expect a service provider to call back someone's who's looking to pay for a service.

It's not snobbery to expect a service provider to follow his word on timelines for project deliverables.

It's not snobbery to expect a service provider to have pride in his job and to not require hounding by the customer who is paying him to get the job done or deliverables delivered.

I guess the bottom line is that when you hire a contractor you're paying for his skills, experience, and PROFESSIONALISM. The contractors contacted by the OP displayed a complete lack of professionalism.

 

[Holedgr]

It's not snobbery to expect a service provider to call back someone's who's looking to pay for a service.

It's not snobbery to expect a service provider to follow his word on timelines for project deliverables.

It's not snobbery to expect a service provider to have pride in his job and to not require hounding by the customer who is paying him to get the job done or deliverables delivered.

I guess the bottom line is that when you hire a contractor you're paying for his skills, experience, and PROFESSIONALISM. The contractors contacted by the OP displayed a complete lack of professionalism.

I was actually referring to the 'snobs' that Frank was referring to, my friend.

I agree with you on your points however, there is always two sides to the story, as I sure you know.


Kind regards,

Tony

 

[tj2]

Ha hahaha.

You guys are funny.

You missed the class about the true meaning of life and went right to business 101, as taught by the rich snobs who want you to give it a big kiss.

Why did you go into business? Money? To exist as a servant to some one? Money? Independence? To reduce stress? Cause you enjoy poo nose?

My customers consist almost entirely of the elderly, 75% ladies.
My customers need me, and I need them. I charge them a very fair fee. In some cases I do not charge them at all.
I respect all of my customers, and they respect me.
If they want to play games, they can move along, I don't have time for games.
I explain every single thing to all of my customers in detail, I many times will refer them to a specialist that needs to do the work due to it's size or etc. I often will check up on this situation for no fee just to be certain that no one is over charging them or misleading them.
I could move my operation into the high priced areas and make more money off of the crabby house wives, the spoiled country club boys. But why? So I can get a soot full of this misconceived drama? Been there done that.
I'm sick of the people who think you should be a diminutive servant, park your van six blocks away so as not to spoil the view.
If you don't like my philosophy that's just fine, don't call me, ever.
I'll be at your Mom's house fixing her faucet and hearing stories about you while I eat lunch with her that she lovingly made for me because she thinks I am the best plumber in the world.
When you hear the story about the guy who Mom called at 2 AM and was crying because the basement was flooding and all your baby pictures were gonna get ruined and the guy saved them. There you go, that might be me, keep your fancy mansions, I work for real people.

Okay, tell me, how do you reconcile this post with your previous points about the client having to be persistent to the point of insanity to get someone to come and give them a quote, let alone do the work? Do you insist that all these elderly ladies call you 4, 5, 6 times before you'll talk to them, just to prove they are 'serious'?

I've seen some of your other posts, and a lot of them seem pretty well thought out. The stuff on this thread doesn't seem to jibe.

And where does all this anger about "servants", "white marble pavers" and (my favorite) "Lord Frothy Buns" come from? I grew up in a summer resort area, and I've dealt with more than my share of the congenitally wealthy, and I'll agree that they are disproportionately assholes. But I got over it.

The issue is professionalism. If you are in business and someone asks for a quote, you should either provide one in a reasonable timeframe or tell them you are too busy/job's too small/a dingo ate your baby/whatever, so they can cross you off the list of people they are waiting on. No harm, no foul. There's no crime in not wanting to bid a job. I pass up jobs all the time. But I let them know.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Business treat customers this way because in business its very easy to become burned out, complacent, stressed, take advantage of ... friendship & family, pissed off, depressed ..and all those good things.

Years ago i found the answer .. raise your prices and do 1/2 the volume of work and you will make twice the profit.

I have a question and be honest ... give me a list of how you select a contractor ? Tell me it isnt just the price ? Because if your not skilled enough to do the job .. what questions are you going to ask ? Is it the way the man speaks, looks, responds ... etc what it is ?

Ron

 

[padstack]

Business treat customers this way because in business its very easy to become burned out, complacent, stressed, take advantage of ... friendship & family, pissed off, depressed ..and all those good things.

Years ago i found the answer .. raise your prices and do 1/2 the volume of work and you will make twice the profit.

I have a question and be honest ... give me a list of how you select a contractor ? Tell me it isnt just the price ? Because if your not skilled enough to do the job .. what questions are you going to ask ? Is it the way the man speaks, looks, responds ... etc what it is ?

Ron

My father in law is a contractor so I ask him. I refuse to hire family b/c that never ends well, IMO. Plus, I go on forums like this and ask questions.

 

[Deschodt]

Wow, that went in 20 directions real fast ;-)

Well, contractor #2 *finally* got back to me with good news, in terms of plans, pricing, schedule, etc... he also had a few good ideas making him > contractor #1. I guess he finished whatever he was working on, because all of a sudden I've got his attention, he replies to emails, just a guess but things are finally happening.

I *think* also that once he realized I understood the process better (thanks to his explanations, in fairness), he should get his *** in gear before I played GC myself based on the info he gave me ;-)

For instance, the A/C units needed to be relocated, and while I was growing tired of waiting for him I had my A/C guy do it already, it had to be done either way. That subtracted one line item from his budget and profits, and triggered a lot more attention from his part all of a sudden ;-)

So in that regard I suppose I sort of "get" what Frank was saying, but I still think that is kinda wrong in principle. I knew squat about this kind of work and *should* have been able to hire someone to do the job fast and well, or at least respond quickly without scaring them. And.....I've still not gotten a contract to sign! Incredible !

 

[porphyre]

And.....I've still not gotten a contract to sign! Incredible !

Don't let him or any of his subs on your property with the intent to work until you get one signed.

Make sure the contract addresses lien releases. Check insurance and bonding, etc etc etc.

 

[ishiboo]

I had an earlier thread on this, so I know how it goes.

Interestingly, only one contractor ever ended up calling me back and bid. He got back in touch. Then, unfortunately, I had to delay the project.

He called me this morning and left me a voicemail, asking if I needed an updated quote or if I had already had it done with someone else, needed any help, etc.

Guess who's getting my business?

 

[thrifty bill]

FWIW, I am getting a different response. Contractors that would have ignored me three years ago are now very motivated to do jobs of any size.

 

[dlenkewich]

You gotta be kidding!!

First, I assume the "phonebook" that you refer to is the yellow pages. If you don't respond to calls from the yellow pages ad, why bother putting an ad in the yellow pages??

Second, I recently moved to a new area and I don't know any local contractors. I have a substantial detached garage to build and the only way for me to find a contractor is to find one from the yellow pages ... I don't know anyone local to ask for referrals. So, assuming that I'm not a flake, you must not be interested in doing my work since I don't have a referral.

Third, you say, "When they call you, you know you will get the work." Don't you have any courage to go out on a limb and make bids on jobs where you aren't guaranteed of winning the bid? Any REAL business professional knows that you win a few bids and you lose a few bids. That's the way life is. If you are good at what you do, your wins will outnumber your losses and your business will grow. But ya gotta grow a pair and take some chances.

Fourth, I can assure you that I will only give a job to a contractor that appears competent, honest, provides a competitive bid, and SHOWS INTEREST IN DOING MY JOB! If you don't show an earnest interest in my job, I'm sure not going to be interested in hiring you.

Don't recall HVAC Phil telling you how to conduct your business...

Just a quick data point - started excavation for my garage basement Friday. (I will open a build thread soon).
Concrete guy is my designer's BinLaw so I said to him "who should I use to excavate?" He says "this guy - already called him - it's an $8,500 job to excavate and dispose of the fill." I said - "if you say he's the guy - tell him to start."

During the job he comments that we haven't hit any rock like he expected so it's going faster than he estimated and will thus be cheaper. yeah! says I.

During the job the alternator fails on his bigger excavator - while he runs the small one I extract the alternator and start calling around to find him a replacement.
And I had coffee and donuts for him and his crew both mornings of the dig and beer at day's end.

My deal with concrete guy is he owns all aspects of getting the basement and main deck poured, waterproofed and inspected and I pay at the end. Wellll, excavator figures I'm a rich guy (I live in the poor part of town but I do ok salary wise so I'm not rich but I have some expendable cash - I wouldn't be doing a basement in my garage otherwise!) and totals up the "cost of the job" and tells me - 1) He needs to be paid right away; 2) The cost is $16,400 but he'll give me a break and let it go for $12,00.

I say "what about $8,500 as quoted to concrete guy?" He says "mumble mumble - truck charges, mumble mumble extra rock at dump site." I say "you said it was going better so shouldn't it be LESS than $8,500?" He finally says "$10,000 is the bottom line number."

You have to be kidding - right? No. He's serious. He's made me for a mark and wants his cut.

Un be F@#$ lievable.

Called the concrete guy, told him the tale. Last time he'll ever use this guy and I'm paying him $8,500 - which, according to him is a bit on the high side.

WHY would you do that in this economy, if ever???

OH, AND - he never gave me the required lien notices so if he's unhappy with $8,500 his only recourse is a plain old lawsuit with no lien foreclosure rights.
Geez

I think anyone could relate to that, but I'm wondering, did you every get a contract or written quote from the guy? All you talk about is what was relayed through the concrete guy...

I can always tell which customers are dead leads. There are alot that are just price shopping, putting tons of bids against each other.
Winning and losing bids is one thing, but having my estimate in the pile with tons of others is another thing. I've had people call and say, "the last guy gave me this for this price", which seems low, without even seeing the job. I tell them, "that's a good price, go with that". There isn't a reason to even look at the job, i know i'm dealing with a tightass.
Oh by the way, i keep the add in the yellowpages to be proffessional, 75% of my work comes from past work. I started my business off of side work, one job led to another. Before i knew it, i didn't have time to work the regular 40hr a week job. I went on my own, never looked back.

I don't know how you afford the yellow pages. Here, to get an ad that would just mimick the size and attraction of the competition, it would cost me over $300 a month just to be lost amongst the rest. We aren't talk a page-ad here, either. That's the price for a 2"x5" ad or something.

In the last year I have fired:

- my hvac guy, who was a friend. Never could: complete job, start another job. New guy is fantastic. I need him I get him. I never ask for prices. I just pay what is bills me.
- fired my lazy ***, incompetent lawyer. I have not found a good replacement.
- fired my lazy real estate agent. New guy is fantastic. Bought 2 more rental properties using him
- fired my incompetent insurance broker after finding my last property was not insured for 8 months after I bought it. New broker is so far is going fine.
- my mortgage broker, who was a friend. I almost lost a deal over his screw ups. Got a new one all lined up.

I cannot understand how any and all of these people stay in business. I pay good money and expect people to do what they are paid for. They are the experts at what they do. Do it! And communicate when you can't so we are a team solving problems.

No need to try and impress peple here, pal. We're all human and living on the same earth. Fired brokers, agents, etc? We all know life isn't like TV, and we don't all have a corner office on the 14th floor with an ocean view. Stop making your life out to be so glamorous. It's not fooling anybody here.

Frank, I understand where you are coming from completely, I just wish I could get some honesty. All they need to say is "im not interested" No reason needs to be given.

Ive done this several times in the past with my lawn business and auto work on the side. And you know I will still get phone calls back for other work later down the road. You think they would find someone else, but they just keep coming back...I guess being honest with your customers earns something money cant buy.

Agreed. I have actually had return work from clients I had to 'let go' for lack of a better term (The result of to much work piling up at once and needing to keep the tried and true clients happy and having to say respectably turn away the new ones that I just couldn't fit in.) People do respect a guy who can just be honest.

Business treat customers this way because in business its very easy to become burned out, complacent, stressed, take advantage of ... friendship & family, pissed off, depressed ..and all those good things.

Years ago i found the answer .. raise your prices and do 1/2 the volume of work and you will make twice the profit.

I have a question and be honest ... give me a list of how you select a contractor ? Tell me it isnt just the price ? Because if your not skilled enough to do the job .. what questions are you going to ask ? Is it the way the man speaks, looks, responds ... etc what it is ?

Ron

Hit the nail on the head, Ron. I personally found that it seems that unless your not connected to the work - Don't get your hands dirty and run a bunch of employee's, that work load, dealing with people can burn you out in a hurry. Just makes you second paragraph even truer. If you knotice, large companies will deal in volume versus small business who will deal with less volume but make a fair share due to quality and personable work.

On your last point - It's unfortunate that perseption is a big factor in these relationships. It's nice to think that you could run your business on the cheap, but people, wether they know it or not, are turned on or off by the appearance of clean/new equipment and vehicles, as well as the kemptness of the individual they are speaking with. As we know, just because a clean cut guy shows up, doesn't mean he knows what he's doing, but presentation is everything.

 

[HVAC Phil]

I don't know how you afford the yellow pages. Here, to get an ad that would just mimick the size and attraction of the competition, it would cost me over $300 a month just to be lost amongst the rest. We aren't talk a page-ad here, either. That's the price for a 2"x5" ad or something.



I have a small one line add, not flashy or circus looking like "AAAAAAAAAAAAA heating and cooling". Love the ones that have all the "A's" so they can be first. Honestly i don't get many calls from the phonebook. I keep the add for proffessionalism. Some customers don't have anymore cards to hand out, so they say to look him up in the book. Most of my customers refer me. They know i'm not the cheapest guy in town, but fair. I keep plenty busy, even in these tough times. That's why i don't feel the need to play games with the cheap people thumbing thru the book collecting quotes, you would think they were invested in the paper market. When i show up at your door, i look like a contractor, not some chump in a suit. You can clearly see i work, not push a pencil.

 

[jay50]

Frank I think you've set a few to many toilets........Time to retire?

Agreed. Frank has huffed too many fumes from the open ******* hole.
He is a legend is his own mind.

 

[Jeff]

I'm in Florida, and had a new back porch built 2 years ago. I called 6 contractors, only 2 responded. Then only 1 gave a quote. Damn I thought, they must not want any work. Turns out they lost most of the help when the housing market bottomed out. Getting good, legal workers is hard for the contractors.

I wasn't happy with the 1 quote, so I went down to county building office and asked what contractor has received the least amount of complaints and has the most permits in the past 365 days. They gave me two names. I never heard of either, but I called. Holy **** batman, both companies were out the next day and submitted bids. After choosing one of them, the work was done in 7 days. They came out every day and were usually waiting for the inspector to sign off so they could continue.

Think outside the box.

 

[porphyre]

Wow.... I really need to get into a union protected trade.

 

[fyrlt1]

Where do you get that these 'contractors' are union? Maybe it's your preconceived notion of unions but I can tell you that you are way off base. How would a union be 'protecting' them? They are obviously the owners (or owners son) of their company. This is what allows them to conduct themselves in such a manner as it pertains to dealing with potential customers.