What Welder to Get?

[sberry]

I should say that welding aluminum is a bonus, not a must. If I could seal cast aluminum it would be nice peace of mind, thats it. Transfer cases and transmissions dont really need to hold pressure as most of you know, just fluid. The stress on them is minimal besides the heat. Also, If I break one every couple of years that is a lot, and I can replace the parts I break for about $100.

Welding steel that I can abuse is my primary concern, as well as a reasonable cost. If stick is the best option I have a brother in law that would be happy to teach me how to use a stick welder. Is it really that hard?

You are on the right track. What you see here is,,, well,,, some personal experience,, this si what I did kind of thing. The right machine for you is a 211 period. Any salesman that comes to anuy other conclusion is doing you a dis service. If there are other reasons you want a machine besides what you need than there are, if you want to fart with alloys and hi end racing and ALREADY have a mig then a tig can be a good idea.

While I come from a stick background (own a tig also) I don't think its the ideal machine for the one unit shop, small garage diy etc, this is why they invented the 200A compact and why the competition followed.

 

[sberry]

Owning a welder, taking classes with them, using etc does not make for good advice in selecting a welder for someone. Actually from my background the smart selector from Miller seems goofy but its got its points.

The reason I say this is that the team from Miller sat around with this guys pic o0n the wall and said,,,, what can we come up with in price, ease and to have enough power to fill the need of a guy with a Jeep that comes to a forum asking this very question,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the 211 is what they came up with.

Only the most deranged would ever see more types of general tasks than I do which only a portion is on 2 or 300 cars/light trucks a year (I have to replace a muffler this morning) and I likely wont need a tig like I havnt the last 10 years but will fly with a small mig I have used fundamentally every day, some days multiple times, I throw a stick in on occasion to keep it real. On the occasion I need to do aluminum its not a hobby and the spool gun has replaced the tig, 4 eze go golf carts, 10 miles or more of alum pressure piping and hundreds of fittings, I weld up 20 or 30 joints in well less than a couple hrs for a pound of wire at 10$

Yes, the last tig is neater in the last pic but soon after no one cares here. Alum is a discipline thing no matter what the process if you want it neat.

 

[bsaint]

??? I hope that's a joke lol besides Fanuc doesn't build welders they build robotic systems for all sorts of applications, and their welding bots use Lincoln welders

I'm thinking a robotic welding system is a little too advance for him and impractical for his applications.

They are fun to use and are fairly easy to program once you get the hang of it. I wanted to program a couple of em to look like they were sword fighting but didn't want risk getting into trouble doing it. I would love to have one if I had the room and the greenbacks to buy one.

We call them here at my tier one customers (fanuc robot welding cells). When we stick a power supply on a robot its now a welder lol.

 

[dr_clyde]

Millermatic 211 with a spoolgun. Put .023 wire in for body work, put .030 or .035 in for the big stuff. If you are feeling frisky then hook up the spoolgun and go to town on the aluminum.

Yes, TIG is nice. I love my dynasty. But it's not what you need. It flat out is hard for body work, and can get super spendy if you want a nice one.

If you want to stick weld, pick up a Lincoln buzz box off craigslist for $200 bones. Boom. Done.

 

[chevy2]

Millermatic 211 with a spoolgun. Put .023 wire in for body work, put .030 or .035 in for the big stuff. If you are feeling frisky then hook up the spoolgun and go to town on the aluminum.

Yes, TIG is nice. I love my dynasty. But it's not what you need. It flat out is hard for body work, and can get super spendy if you want a nice one.

If you want to stick weld, pick up a Lincoln buzz box off craigslist for $200 bones. Boom. Done.

I've been thinking about a diversion 180 for my shop mainly due to the increased number of parts on the new cars that are aluminum. I have a miller 252 & love it. I've just been toying around with idea of getting a new toy I mean tool. What makes the tig welding hard on auto body panels to much heat or takes to long?

 

[dr_clyde]

TIG welding has a greater heat input to the amount of weld metal deposited versus MIG. On body panels, you can quick zap them with the MIG and pretty much touch the weld right away. Almost no heat input and thus no warp. If you cool the weld as you go, there really isnt a limit to how long a weld you can mig on a panel. Plus, the filler is deposited at the same time, so one hand can hold clamps, ect.

If you were to try to TIG a body panel, not only would you chase your tail trying to not burn through, you would warp the **** out of the metal. The exceptions being hammer welding and TIG brazing, but that's a different ball game.

 

[zkling]

If you were to try to TIG a body panel, not only would you chase your tail trying to not burn through, you would warp the **** out of the metal.

This is a common misconception, the base metal is going to melt at the same temp no matter which process you use. The issue is that it takes greater skill than most want to devote to learning how to weld. Most high end restoration and custom shops use tig or the true purists use a gas torch. Biggest downside is that fitup and weld prep is paramount.

 

[dr_clyde]

I'm not confusing melting point with overall thermal input, however. Notice I mentioned hammer welding. The purists using a gas torch are using a body hammer to peen the weld and stretch it out, this negating the warp from the heat.

I am also not talking about running beads. When welding a body panel, welds are done in short bursts, with almost no continuous beads. With a mig welder, the weld is over and done before the surrounding metal gets very hot. With a TIG, the weld takes a little bit longer to happen, thus the overall heat input is greater. Plus, unless your fit up is absolutely perfect, you are going to have to take a couple seconds and dip rod. All the while, heat is going into the metal.

Not to mention the fact that a TIG weld on thin sheet will tend to under fill, causing for more body filler work. The mig wire adds metal to be ground away.

I'm not saying its not possible with a TIG, because it is. I've done it. Mig is just so much easier, faster, more forgiving, I would be remiss if I recommended a TIG to a beginner to weld body panels.

I worked in a custom car shop for several years, and we MIG welded most things. The only time we busted out the TIG was when we needed a super precise weld, like trying to imitate factory knockout panels.

 

[OverkillYJ]

Alright I am going to go with the 210 size. I was talking with my Father in Law who's welder I was using and he has a Miller 210. I did not know that because I didnt pay attention to that before. He has a 250 something at work and says that is well beyond what I need. I am glad I checked on here though because this thread has taught me a lot of differences. Seems anything smaller then that will not cut it for my needs. Either that or the duty cycle is so low that I would be stopping all of the time for this thicker stuff I do.

 

[HAP]

With the spool gun you will love the ability to just grab either guan and weld at will. Of course, you will have to ajust the dials accordingly...

 

[theknurl]

This is a common misconception, the base metal is going to melt at the same temp no matter which process you use. The issue is that it takes greater skill than most want to devote to learning how to weld. Most high end restoration and custom shops use tig or the true purists use a gas torch. Biggest downside is that fitup and weld prep is paramount.

+10...... quite true

 

[chevy2]

Alright I am going to go with the 210 size. I was talking with my Father in Law who's welder I was using and he has a Miller 210. I did not know that because I didnt pay attention to that before. He has a 250 something at work and says that is well beyond what I need. I am glad I checked on here though because this thread has taught me a lot of differences. Seems anything smaller then that will not cut it for my needs. Either that or the duty cycle is so low that I would be stopping all of the time for this thicker stuff I do.

I now have been thinking about the 210 over the diversion 180. If you get this or if any one else has the 210 let me know what you think of it.

 

[trboxman]

I don't think that they make the 210 anymore. They do make the 211, 212, and 252, all things considered if you're looking at the 212 over the 211 you should just go ahead and step up to the 252 and be done with it.

 

[HAP]

I now have been thinking about the 210 over the diversion 180. If you get this or if any one else has the 210 let me know what you think of it.

It's a great machine. Only one better in its class would be the 252...

Here's mine:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147341

HAP

 

[chevy2]

I don't think that they make the 210 anymore. They do make the 211, 212, and 252, all things considered if you're looking at the 212 over the 211 you should just go ahead and step up to the 252 and be done with it.

I was talking about the syncro wave 210 it just came out this year. I have the 252 & it is one of the best welders I have used. Any body have the syncro wave 210 on here?

 

[gnm109]

I was talking about the syncro wave 210 it just came out this year. I have the 252 & it is one of the best welders I have used. Any body have the syncro wave 210 on here?

Hello,

I don't have the Syncrowave 210 but I considered replacing my Syncrowave 200 with a 210 recently. I looked at the specifications for the 210 and it looked very nice, except it appears that in stick mode it does not have AC. Is this correct? It would be a deal-breaker for me since I also do stick and have to have AC and DC capability.

My other machine is a Millermatic 252 which I just purchased last month. I had a Lincoln SP 175 Plus which was OK but would only go to 1/4" plate. I gave that to my son to get him started in welding and got the MM 252. I did some 1/2" plate with it today and it's really got a lot of power available to make nice wet welds on heavy stock. Like other Millermatics it has spool gun capability, although I really don't need one at this time.

Any of the 240 v Lincolns or Millers with spool gun capability would be a good addition to any garage.

 

[zkling]

I was talking about the syncro wave 210 it just came out this year. I have the 252 & it is one of the best welders I have used. Any body have the syncro wave 210 on here?

I asked the same question a while back when, after browsing the miller site for info, I had a double take. Syncrowave 210 There is a pretty good discussion over on the miller forum and at least one person over on welding web bought one.

I compared the specs to taht of the standard Syncro 200 and found the following.

Benifits over the standard syncro 200

-~1/2 weight, but about same size. So it will be easier to move, but not portable.
-Ability to use on 120v and 240v input, much less amps needed for output compared to the transformer 200.
-10 more amps output on top end, but same 20% duty cycle.
-future upgrades with the software card available, talk of this being proprietary though ($$$$).

Personally I can't see what hole in the market it fills. It is kind of a mix between the syncro 200, diversion series and all stuck into a MM210 chassis.

 

[Nestor]

I have the Miller 210. No spool gun though. Very happy with it.