What would you do differently next time??

[Antoin]

I'd build a big shed BEFORE I got married and had children!

 

[Donald Cook]

I agree, plus , anything to the inside that would be easier before you move in, heat in the floor, drains, electric lines , footings for lift, internet , water & heater. exhaust fan, ceiling fans, shelving.

 

[Danno1]

.



If nothing else, insulate under the slab. It can't be done later.

Put the walls on a concrete stem wall. Important in snow country but also keeps rain off the siding in the summer. Large overhangs on the roof (unless you're in hurricane territory).


Also, run PEX for the infloor heat. Even if you don't connect it up. It'll be there if you need it, or a selling point if you don't.



.

 

[fartymarty]

Plugs every 6' on staggered circuits.

For a one-man hobby shop, what is the purpose of having outlets on staggered circuits?

I suppose this question was for GTFiero.
Until he responds, I can only guess that it's so you'll always have two high amp circuits reasonably available for any project location in your shop? (say for a portable electric heater for you on one circuit, and a heat gun and soldering iron for your project on the other circuit) ...or so it would be easier to use one of these thingies? (the latter was in jest, but then again...?)

 

[nzjkb5]

I suppose this question was for GTFiero.
Until he responds, I can only guess that it's so you'll always have two high amp circuits reasonably available for any project location in your shop? (say for a portable electric heater for you on one circuit, and a heat gun and soldering iron for your project on the other circuit) ...or so it would be easier to use one of these thingies? (the latter was in jest, but then again...?)

Yes, GTFiero mentioned staggered circuits first, and then gtae07 also mentioned it in the post right before mine. I couldn't figure out why one person would be using two high-amp tools at once, but I guess the portable heater makes sense if you don't have sufficient (or any) heat in the garage.

I'm planning a garage build too, and will be doing all of my wiring, that's why I asked.

 

[keith204]

Yes, GTFiero mentioned staggered circuits first, and then gtae07 also mentioned it in the post right before mine. I couldn't figure out why one person would be using two high-amp tools at once, but I guess the portable heater makes sense if you don't have sufficient (or any) heat in the garage.



I'm planning a garage build too, and will be doing all of my wiring, that's why I asked.

Staggered circuits for powering a shop vac and planer at the same time.

Absolutely.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

The biggest difference is that I would air seal, insulate, and finish the walls and ceiling first. Then I'd surface mount all the electrical in conduit.

 

[ZRX61]

Get divorced sooner...

 

[MushCreek]

I'm using my shop now, but it's not finished inside. I wish I had the luxury of finishing it first. I'm always adding/modifying electrical circuits as I set it up. I'm putting them in the walls, but I'm going to line the shop with painted OSB or plywood, hung with screws. At least then I can take them down for the next modification. Every machine shop I worked in, electrical work was common as needs and layout changed.

I'll probably do a bit of compressed air plumbing eventually. I've yet to find a battery substitute for an air gun, something machinists use many times a day. You do still need some compressed air in a shop. Right now, I just drag a hose around my fairly small shop, but it would be nice to have drops at the machine tools. I also use a cutting tool misting system which is cleaner and more efficient than an oil can, and also uses compressed air.

 

[PelicanPines]

Buy a condo and stick with mass transit and uber.

 

[acer66]

Like said before, I wish I had done painting, insulating before hand.
Right now I am installing the ceiling insulation and I am constantly moving stuff.
I also have to move my electrical conduit because I am furring out rafters for more insulation so they are in the way.

I keep reminding me of a quote from Jay Bates

I treat everything as temporary

Which keeps the level of frustration down for me.

 

[teal95]

A few things I'd do different, but mostly things I did right. Most of the things I'd do different stems from $hitty contractors. No break between slab and perimeter foundation and put the big garage door in front of the work bench instead of the 1/2 bath (would allow ~3' more for vehicle length.

Things I did right: Upstairs loft (even if it is currently and in-law suite. Half bath. Surface mounted conduit for electrical. Separate breaker panel in shop. Heated floor. Spare 2" conduit back to house for low voltage (internet and TV cable).

steve

 

[pbon]

Yes, GTFiero mentioned staggered circuits first, and then gtae07 also mentioned it in the post right before mine. I couldn't figure out why one person would be using two high-amp tools at once, but I guess the portable heater makes sense if you don't have sufficient (or any) heat in the garage.

I'm planning a garage build too, and will be doing all of my wiring, that's why I asked.

I thought about staggered circuits but the wiring seemed like a pain. My renovated carriage house is 23x29. I put each wall on a different breaker. I have a NG heater and welders and lift and compressor have dedicated circuits. I can always use an outlet on a different wall. I have several spaced along each wall. However, my work has not required 2 high amp devices to be plugged in next to each other. If I knew I needed that, I might have done the fancy wiring. Certainly no harm in it.

 

[keith204]

I thought about staggered circuits but the wiring seemed like a pain. My renovated carriage house is 23x29. I put each wall on a different breaker. I have a NG heater and welders and lift and compressor have dedicated circuits. I can always use an outlet on a different wall. I have several spaced along each wall. However, my work has not required 2 high amp devices to be plugged in next to each other. If I knew I needed that, I might have done the fancy wiring. Certainly no harm in it.

Conduit + shared neutral approach is sweet! (Google it as there are rules)

Even if not alternating, two rows of conduit along one wall, each on own own circuit, gets the job done simply without the shared neutral approach.

I mixed that with the shared neutral approach to have four circuits on the miter saw wall. Upper conduit L&R circuits as well as lower conduit L&R circuits.

Benefit: allows multiple people to work in the small shop without tripping breakers (or tripping over extension cords).

 

[bullnerd]

Aluminum trim around the o doors before installing them!

 

[buildingup]

Currently have a pole building that's 50'x80' enclosed with a 16' overhang where the access to the second floor will be. I put 5 over head doors along the long wall (north wall) with each bay being pre-determined for what would be inside. Have conduit under the concrete going all over the shed if I need to run anything in the future along with camper dump station inside where we park our unit. Have pex in the floor for in-floor heat so I can hook into that for the winters after I get insulation and natural gas ran to the barn.
Have 60' of pallet racking on the south wall for storage with large windows above that for natural light.
Only things I would change is doing stick built vs pole but thats higher cost along with maybe waiting another year or two to get it up but didn't have that option since the now wife wanted to have the wedding at our property and we didn't have a barn to host it in.
When designing I layed it out so its difficult to see the garage doors from the road and once I get a few more trees up you won't see them at all and had snow removal in mind as well since we get a decent amount here in Michigan. Also have a work station set up under the racking just to the right of the push box for the tractor along with a separate service ran to the shed. Have plumbing installed for bathroom as well right next to the utility room (electrical, boiler, compressor).

20190629_072252 by Julian Lopacki, on Flickr
20191013_202003 by Julian Lopacki, on Flickr

 

[Coolerman]

If I could do it again? Geez where to start!
Bigger of course.
Insulate under the concrete floor. (Ceiling and walls are insulated well)
Further from the property line so I could build a lean to for the trailers.
Floor drain preferably a "gutter with grate" down the center exiting outside.
Taller garage door. (It's 10' high but the camper I have is 11' 4" tall and I can't get it in to work on it! Should have gone with the 12' door...

Other than those things, thanks to Garage Journal input, I planned the shop fairly well.
I had electrical conduits run under the concrete from the breaker panel to each corner of the shop and two that come up in the center of each long wall.

I had two 2" PVC conduits, and a 1 1/2" conduit run from the main house basement where the electric and water services are. They all come up through the shop floor. I ran power through one 2", water through the other 2" using PEX, and alarm/Satellite/Cat5e Ethernet cables through the 1 1/2". I also had a 2" conduit buried under the shop floor concrete that goes from one side of the shop to the other for my air lines. All of that made wiring the shop SO much easier!

I heat the shop with a wood burner, but only when I am out there. I of course shut the water off and drain the line when I'm not there.

For light in the shop I have 4 4' x 6' translucent panels in the roof, 5 windows and 27 250 watt CFL bulbs mounted to the purloins on the ceiling. During the day, if the sun is out, I do not have to turn on the lights!

 

[Moose97]

Build it bigger!

Get rid of useless **** I think I'll need "someday". Someday never comes.

 

[polexican23]

Run gas line.
8foot doors at a minimum
would make a closed off 3rd bay with 12' celings (for lift) and the rest at 8 feet. Just wasted space dealing with higher ceilings in just a work area.
plan for speaker, tv, projector placement before closing up walls.

 

[KenC]

more insulation always my first response. No matter how much you plan, more is better. Underslab, walls, ceiling, max out everywhere.

All surface mounted wiring in conduit. Easy to reconfigure as needed, and you will need to. Nobody plans perfectly for the long haul. And, nothing in the stud bays to mess with the insulation.

 

[sweetk30]

Run gas line.
8foot doors at a minimum
would make a closed off 3rd bay with 14' celings (for lift) and the rest at 8 feet. Just wasted space dealing with higher ceilings in just a work area.
plan for speaker, tv, projector placement before closing up walls.

fixed it for bay with lift celing height .

i have a 12ft now and wish i had 2 extra feet .

 

[PhantomEB]

Not much I can change. I went to the max with what I was allowed.

 

[ngiovas]

Some really great suggestions. I was traveling all week and didn't get a chance to thank everyone for the ideas.

It looks like maybe I can attach a file. I was thinking of putting together a spreadsheet summarizing the suggestions just in case anyone else is interested in the future. I will attach it in the first post after I put it together.

Nick

 

[ngiovas]

I saw some university designs for farm shops a while back and I can tell the guy really never worked in one. Let alone dozens. Had you waking thru tools and all the welding grinding grit every time the building was entered. Forces all the foot traffic in to an isle for not knowing enough to put all the **** along the walls.
Shops are for people, to get around and work on cars and graph paper with a 3 ft ruler don't get it. If it wont break the start is the place to get all you can afford, you can fix other stuff later. Like no substitute for horse power none for square ft and having the building and doors oriented the right way. Often the front is in the back and the back in the front.
I seen a beauty a while back and the couple big regrets they had was didn't get the floor pour for the hoist right and while it was located somewhat fine they didn't account for wet **** and they already needed a steamer and paint bay.
Those are nice but most home brews don't have the space so it all needs to count. A couple minor features could allow for painting without booth that hogged space and not used but on occasion, besides all that **** gets old after a couple years and you want to do other things usually to stuff you really need to do which is maintain cars and living equipment.
Climate and location is a lot. I live in a wet dirty rugged worls and being able to clean, warm and dry is everything. I don't need cad tools, I use a pressure washer and a wire welder and a few hand tools, as few as I can on most days.
As for good ideas, a couple modest island fixed benches with electric on them with shelves under and some overhang to clamp to. Hose reel I can reach for the air and some lights on swinging booms right over the benches. Nite light so I can move without switching up local lights as needed or when I get there. A wash sink in convenient place, a urinal and a potty, a shower not so much. An office in the front, enter the shop, then the office with coffee maker and micro, fridge, desk, book shelf. TV

sberry,

Thanks for all of the replies and suggestions. I would be interested in finding out more about your thoughts on work flow, machine placement and also garage door placement.

 

[ngiovas]

Get your plans...then add 25%. It always looks bigger on paper [emoji3]

Make it bigger than you think you need. Mine is small at 20x24 (2 car size) and I wish I would have gone no smaller than 24x30.
By the time you get tools and shelves in you'll lose a lot of space.

wider,deeper,higher

If I could do it again? Geez where to start!
Bigger of course.

Build it bigger!

It sounds like everyone agrees that you should build bigger than you initially think. I was originally thinking 30x50, but started thinking that it would be better to go bigger now and wait on some of the tools/toys that go in the shop. What I am not certain about is the lean-to. Is it a lot cheaper to do it up front, or is that something that is easy to add later?

 

[ngiovas]

Plug outlets every 6 inches or so apart...., oh and 3-way switches at each door for the lights.

I agree with the suggestions on having lots of outlets. In my current shop, I installed outlets every 4 feet and they are on alternating circuits. I certainly have never regretted this decision. Electrical boxes, outlets, and wiring are cheap. Much easier to have more than you need.

Great suggestion on the 3-way switches. Never thought of that. With a large shop, will definitely have multiple entries.

 

[ngiovas]

60x80 is roomy. You could subdivide for heat. Heat is like sanctuary, once its inside its safe. In fact could sundivide and sub really. 45 degrees is better than freezing, 50 is bearable and 55 or 60 is workwise but cost goes up. The upside of some heat is simply nothing is as good to keep all your **** in and keep it in service or safe. It don't got to be hot but not good to let paint freeze, dont have to fussy drain some stuff, **** in the car doesn't freeze and cars don't build ice.
I have built in hi pressure washer and cut ice off outside and park in during bitter weather, will take the time to wash, park back in and keep my plow and work truck in. If its bitter out there is a big difference starting out dry, thawed at 50 degrees vs 10. Same parking can be converted to paint. Make a fan could shove in the rear walk door and a curtain for paint.

Heat will definitely be a requirement for Michigan winters. I just need to decide the best way to heat the space. In-floor radiant heat would be great, but I have a feeling it will be pretty expensive. Can anyone who has done radiant heat give me an idea of cost. Someone suggested plumbing for it even if I don't install the full system right away. This may be an option depending on cost.

It would be nice to have the option for using wood as a secondary heat source, but I don't know how practical that is with a large space.

I will likely divide off the woodshop and metal shop which will make it easier to heat these separate spaces.

I really like the idea of being able to wash vehicles/equipment in sub freezing temps.

 

[ngiovas]

I built a 40'x50' about 120' feet from the house.

I put in a small bath with toilet and sink. So glad I did and would never be without one.

The ceiling is 12'. In hindsight, I could have done scissor truss and had a higher ceiling. I don't have a motorhome, but when I sell, that might have been a selling point.

I did spend a lot of time and money on a high priced floor epoxy. I love that - so easy to mop up oil or other spills. No hot tire pull ups to date. Very happy and would do it again.

Hope that helps a little.

Thanks for the suggestions Skyking. I really like the idea of the toilet and sink in the shop. Initially, the shop will be the only structure on the property (may have a trailer or cabin to sleep in). In addition to the convenience of the toilet, I really like the idea of being able to wash up in the garage and not having all of the grease / dirt in the sink in the house.

I'm not 100% sold on epoxy floor coatings. I have seen to many epoxy floors that peeled up after a few years. I also don't know how it would hold up with tractors and other heavy equipment. Plus, with such a large space, I don't think it is practical from a cost perspective. With that said, once I get the shop out of the garage that is attached to my house, I am thinking of doing some sort of flooring (probably tiles).

 

[ngiovas]

Spend the money and install foam board under the concrete. If you use two layers, tapping and staggering the joints you won't need a vapor barrier.

I am guessing you will have a 36"-48" footer. After the footer is poured and the forms removed, make sure the inside of that footer gets 2" of foam board also.

If the foam board is out of the budget then you MUST use a vapor barrier.

theoldwizard1, excellent suggestion. This is yet another item I hadn't even considered, but makes perfect sense.

Where are you located in MI?

 

[ngiovas]

Plugs every 6' on staggered circuits. Three way switches for lights. Insulated garage doors for work areas. Couple of 220v outlets(compressor and lift). 24' deep apron out front so you can park a truck on it and walk around and unload without gettin off the cement, also great for washing vehicles. Make all man doors 36" wide. Have an out side facet or two, or a no freeze hydrant facet. Vapor barrier under cement prior to the pour. Wire mesh in floor. 6" cement under lift post. Floor drains to outside for vehicle work, or no drain for woodworking. LED area lighting (4000K, easy on the eyes, yet bright). Metal rodent guard at the bottom of your steel exterior if you use steel.

Did them all here on the 30x60', 12'wall, 24x30 shop, 36x30 storage area. Also did 2" foam under shop floor except where lift is and 4' x2" foam board around shop slab exterior.

I will definitely have several 220 outlets setup for tools and other equipment. Similar to standard outlets, the boxes, outlets and wiring aren't that expensive. Would rather have extras.

Exterior hose bibs is another one of those items that make perfect sense that I didn't even have on the list. I also wanted to have hot and cold water hose bibs inside for washing cars.

Do you have more info on the rodent guard? I am not familiar with it, but I like the idea. I get mice and chipmunks in my current garage and shed and it drives me crazy.

 

[ngiovas]

Pour a pad in front of the large doors when the slab is poured.

Another great suggestion. I will likely have a gravel drive going up to the shop and it will be nice to have a place to park and unload vehicles outside of the shop.

 

[ngiovas]

Depending on where you live and the climate,, insulate and install the interior sheeting
Wall finish before moving in. For obvious reasons .....

This is an excellent suggestion. When I moved into my existing house, I immediately did the electrical in my shop and then insulated and drywalled the walls, but after 18 years, still haven't insulated the ceiling or garage doors. Keep saying "I will get to it next year". I do have a pop up propane heater I use, but it is wasteful since I lose so much heat through the ceiling and doors.

I was thinking about not insulating right away so that I can afford a bigger garage, but based on current experience, I think that would be a bad decision.

 

[ngiovas]

Use jack shaft garage door openers .

A friend of mine just used these on his new garage and I love them. Super quiet and eliminate the chain/cable running below the ceiling. Definitely on the list.

 

[ngiovas]

No windows, makes it more secure.
Some provision for removable floor tie downs, makes pulling things in easier.

I was thinking the same thing about the windows. Plus, with LED lights being so cheap to operate, will add plenty of lights inside anyway.

Do you have picks of the tie-downs you are referring to? I'm not quite sure what they would look like.

 

[ngiovas]

I'd build a big shed BEFORE I got married and had children!

A little late for me on that one . I have been with my wife for 27 years. The good news is that she is supportive of my projects (even some of the crazier ones ). Kids are older now, so that isn't an issue.

 

[ngiovas]

Currently have a pole building that's 50'x80' enclosed with a 16' overhang where the access to the second floor will be. I put 5 over head doors along the long wall (north wall) with each bay being pre-determined for what would be inside. Have conduit under the concrete going all over the shed if I need to run anything in the future along with camper dump station inside where we park our unit. Have pex in the floor for in-floor heat so I can hook into that for the winters after I get insulation and natural gas ran to the barn.
Have 60' of pallet racking on the south wall for storage with large windows above that for natural light.
Only things I would change is doing stick built vs pole but thats higher cost along with maybe waiting another year or two to get it up but didn't have that option since the now wife wanted to have the wedding at our property and we didn't have a barn to host it in.
When designing I layed it out so its difficult to see the garage doors from the road and once I get a few more trees up you won't see them at all and had snow removal in mind as well since we get a decent amount here in Michigan. Also have a work station set up under the racking just to the right of the push box for the tractor along with a separate service ran to the shed. Have plumbing installed for bathroom as well right next to the utility room (electrical, boiler, compressor).

20190629_072252 by Julian Lopacki, on Flickr
20191013_202003 by Julian Lopacki, on Flickr

buildingup,

Nice setup!! We are neighbors (I am in Clarkston). Would love to check out your space sometime just to get a feel for size.

 

[GTFiero]

Staggered circuits for powering a shop vac and planer at the same time.

Absolutely.

As mentioned above is correct. In my case I run the vac on one box and the table saw on another box. Same goes for the compressor on one and the moveable lighting on another. My boxes are on staggered 20 amp lines. Never short of power here.

My boxes are spaced 6’ apart with 6 boxes on each circuit. Also put in a 220/30amp circuit and box close to your panel for compressor. Plan for a 220v for your car lift if your into the auto thing.

Jack screw door openers for the overhead panel doors are awesome!! The openers are really quite, work very well on large doors ( my 18’x10’H non-insulated and 10’x10’H insulated doors). Also very easy to install and very little amp draw(put two jack screw door openers on one 15 amp circuit).

 

[Bottlecapdigger]

I would have run more 220v outlets, forgot how many 220v equipment a person can have in there shop, lathe, compressor, welder plugs, mill, bigger sanders. Supply 220 at the ceiling also to drop down for a car hoist, if your planning to get one. Also some more air outlets. BCD

 

[ngiovas]

What have others done for an overhead hoist? I have been thinking about adding an overhead beam that would allow me to easily back in a truck or trailer and load/unload very heavy items. The issue is that I am not sure how practical it is to have a beam span the entire garage.

 

[MushCreek]

What have others done for an overhead hoist? I have been thinking about adding an overhead beam that would allow me to easily back in a truck or trailer and load/unload very heavy items. The issue is that I am not sure how practical it is to have a beam span the entire garage.

One of the best things I ever owned was an adjustable rolling A-frame. I've thought about building one for my home shop, but at my age, I doubt I would need one anymore. The adjustable height was great as I could lower it to move it outside. The rolling part is obvious. I even have a nice 2 ton single phase electric hoist, but I'm probably going to sell it. Now, I just use my trusty old engine hoist, and it lifts pretty much everything I anticipate moving. I recently moved my Bridgeport mill with it. It breaks down pretty small, and lives under the staircase until I need it.