When/When not to- use Loctite vs. Anti-seize

[VH5150]

I'm sure this has been covered somewhere here in GJ already, but since I'm fairly new I'll start this again:

I recently replace front and rear shocks/struts on both my '04 Jeep Rubicon and my wife's '11 Kia Sorento.

I ended up breaking one of the rear upper shock retaining bolts on my jeep and spent the following two days grinding out the rest of the rust-welded bolt with a Dremel and about $60 worth of grinding stones. I didn't want to do anything more aggressive heat/spark-wise because the fuel tank was only about 6" away. On the Sorento, I had to grind both of the rear shocks away from the knuckle - and very carefully because I didn't want to have to replace the knuckles or spend even more time trying to press a damaged bolt out.

Here is my question: Would an anti-seize compound have been recommended when I installed the new shocks or is this not recommended on suspension parts? On the contrary, when is it appropriate to use Loctite - if ever?

 

[Farmall450]

Loctite on brake caliper brackets and internals.

Anti seize on studs, sparkplugs, things you know you'll have off in the future. Normally use it on small engine/tractor heads etc that are torqued.

 

[visionguru]

.....Here is my question: Would an anti-seize compound have been recommended when I installed the new shocks or is this not recommended on suspension parts? On the contrary, when is it appropriate to use Loctite - if ever?

You should use anti-seize on all suspension bolts, which are hold together by big torque force, with lock nuts or cotter pin to prevent the possibility of getting loose.

Loctite is used on some low torque bolts on the engine, such as timing belt idler pulley.

 

[sk farmer]

anti-seize on things you want to take apart that like to get stuck.

loctite on thing you want to stay together that like to come apart.

 

[BuffettFan]

anti-seize on things you want to take apart that like to get stuck.

loctite on thing you want to stay together that like to come apart.

Exactly.

 

[wkndwarrior29]

Just remember that lubricating bolts changes the required torque.

Also, not to get off topic - but I was in a similar situation and used one of these saws. You can use long flexible hacksaw blades to flush cut bolts in tight areas. Takes a few minutes...

https://www.target.com/p/stanley-17...nH0UfoTkns6gU8h6JYcaArr1EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[skruft]

A good place to use anti-seize is with any so called countersunk bolts - basically like flat head screws except used in metal rather than wood. If they are exposed to water they will rust in place and are very hard to remove. I found these in a Warn winch mount and had a terrible time.

 

[mbshop]

I rarely used either. Had to be very specific areas that actually required it. Course I never lived in the rust belt.

 

[ItsNemo]

anti-seize on things you want to take apart that like to get stuck.

loctite on thing you want to stay together that like to come apart.

This is a good answer.

Usually if you reference the shop manuals for the vehicles, they will specify the appropriate assembly methods...where to apply loctite, anti-seize (and what variety), di-electric grease, regular grease, specialty lubes (caliper pins for instance), etc.

Of course for anything big and directly exposed to spray (suspension, frame, etc) I will anti-seize regardless. Nickel (rather than silver) for most exhaust components and heat shield bolts as well.

 

[Schurkey]

Would an anti-seize compound have been recommended when I installed the new shocks or is this not recommended on suspension parts? On the contrary, when is it appropriate to use Loctite - if ever?

Loctite on brake caliper brackets and internals.

Loctite is used on some low torque bolts on the engine, such as timing belt idler pulley.

loctite on thing you want to stay together that like to come apart.

Usually if you reference the shop manuals for the vehicles, they will specify the appropriate assembly methods...where to apply loctite, anti-seize (and what variety), di-electric grease, regular grease, specialty lubes (caliper pins for instance), etc.

You guys know better.

"Loctite" is a brand name, not a product. "Loctite" has dozens if not hundreds of different products.
http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/loctite-industrial-assembly-repair-13281.htm

Adhesives
Equipment and Engineering
Functional Coating and Metal Pretreatment
Gasketing Sealants
Instant Adhesives
Lubricants
Machinery Adhesives
Molding Compounds
Mold Release Agents
NVH and Metal Reinforcement
Retaining Compounds
Sealants
Structural Adhesives
Surface Technologies
Thread Sealants
Threadlockers

If you mean "thread locking compound", say "thread-locking compound", or "threadlocker". That narrows the list from hundreds to something like a dozen specific products, the most-common would be 242 (medium-strength, blue) and 271 (high-strength, red).

For the record, there's other brands of threadlockers, 3M even uses similar numbers, along with blue and red to color code medium- and high-strength. (TL42 medium strength, TL71, high strength)
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company...0815+8711017+8711736+8745694+3294857497&rt=r3




To specifically answer the question posed originally, "I" would have used anti-seize. However, a medium-strength threadlocker would accomplish approximately the same thing by preventing any water from getting in between the male and female threads. There'd be no corrosion holding the threads together later. A medium-strength threadlocker wouldn't be so secure you'd have trouble getting the fasteners loosened.

Just remember that lubricating bolts changes the required torque.

^^^ Wisdom. The trick is to figure out HOW MUCH the required torque changes.

 

[Fcvapor05]

DO NOT put anti-seize anywhere your factory service manual doesn't specifically call for it. Period.

You are drastically reducing that fastener's ability to resist vibration and stay put.

This applies even more to anything safety critical- namely suspension and brake components.

 

[ChrisLS8]

I use anti seize on brake hardware and trans input and axle shafts.
Loc Tite on flywheel and pressure plate bolts, that's about it for me

 

[anndel]

anti-seize on things you want to take apart that like to get stuck.

loctite on thing you want to stay together that like to come apart.

exactly +2 but only per shop manual's instructions. If it doesn't call for any then nothing.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

DO NOT put anti-seize anywhere your factory service manual doesn't specifically call for it. Period.

You are drastically reducing that fastener's ability to resist vibration and stay put.

This applies even more to anything safety critical- namely suspension and brake components.

I've been using it on most of the suspension of my 4x4s for years. Only down side is ball joint and tie rod services are easy.

 

[kctyphoon]

I usually put anti seize on brake caliper bolts. You kinda know your gonna be removing those in the future.. put it on the studs for my trucks wheels also.

In my mind it's fine for anything you know will be repeatedly serviced. Haven't found any need for locktite on my cars.. motorcycle YES.. rear sets, rear pegs - definitely.

 

[Tonyuk]

I don't really use thread locker on anything, never found it necessary if you tighten to the correct torque with clean threads, i hate having to deal with a bolt that had been covered in threadlock its a pain to wire wheel off. Sometimes i'll use it on the guide pin bolts or brake carrier bolts, but only a bit.

I use anti-seize on caliper and clutch bleed screws, brake disc/drum screws, exhaust sensors, spark plugs, glow plugs, wheel bolts, clutch splines, brake hardware and a few other places... anything you want to come back out again or not seize in place.

 

[Htscheg]

Only use locktite or anti-seize if the manual or instructions call for itand follow the manufactures torque specs, .02

 

[joe_pinehill1]

Follow your Factory Service Manual.

You can find them on line, eBay, some Car Manufactures sell them on line like Subaru and Honda, I don't know if Chrysler Fiat does for the Jeep.

 

[sk farmer]

For those that got their ******* in a wad about loc-tite. Go back and read the op's question. He specifly asks about loc-tite. Did he mean thread locking compound? Maybe but i dont know so i gave an answer that fit his question. No need to get all high and mighty with us for answering the question he asked rather than the one you wanted to answer showing your vast knowledge.

 

[sberry]

I use them sparingly but we use penetrating spray on almost every by we install. It has about eliminated seizure problems, have even used it on stuff that was submerged. A dry thread doesn't torque proper and can go so far as to seize on installation.

 

[Maui]

Any components that are made from titanium alloys that require assembly with steel or other titanium components (my road racing bike is an example of this) should always be coated with anti-seize. If they aren't, then you will NOT get them apart down the road.

Maui

 

[kythri]

You should use anti-seize on all suspension bolts, which are hold together by big torque force, with lock nuts or cotter pin to prevent the possibility of getting loose.

Loctite is used on some low torque bolts on the engine, such as timing belt idler pulley.

Having just disassembled the rear suspension of my '00 Expedition, most of the bolts on that have blue Loctite on them.

Replacement factory bolts have an orange/red-colored dry thread substance on them.

 

[Boilerhouse]

Working on my old rusted out cars for a lifetime, I am admittedly the President of the Overuse of Antiseize Club. But Loctite TLC does help act as an anti-seize... And...Loctite 243 Thread Locking Compound tolerates small amounts of actual anti seize.

 

[MoonRise]

From Doc's WhiteBoard on-line comic (he posts here on GJ sometimes):

 

[Billy Jack]

Working on my old rusted out cars for a lifetime, I am admittedly the President of the Overuse of Antiseize Club. But Loctite TLC does help act as an anti-seize... And...Loctite 243 Thread Locking Compound tolerates small amounts of actual anti seize.

I guess I'm a member of the same club, but no regrets. It started with my first bike 40 years ago, when I discovered the Japanese motorcycle companies all had proprietary fasteners, combining a steel shank with a soft lead phillips head. Then I started wrenching on Sprint Cars, where other than the frame, axles, engine internals and fasteners, the whole damn thing is aluminum and it travels in calcium chloride-infused wet dirt.
Working in a rust belt auto shop environment, I've seen too many snapped wheel studs, alloy wheels frozen to brake rotors etc., to not keep a bottle of anti-seize close at hand in my home garage.
I try and be careful with the amount of A-S that I apply, but I've never had any kind of failure that I can attribute to insufficient clamping torque caused by A-S.
I agree that a TLC would probably be a better choice in many applications, but the time involved for proper preparation keeps me from using it more often.

Bill

 

[ghnl]

You guys know better.

"Loctite" is a brand name, not a product.

If you mean "thread locking compound", say "thread-locking compound", or "threadlocker".

If I hab a bad code, should I use a "Kleenex" or an "absorbent disposable paper tissue"?

 

[unslow1]

If I hab a bad code, should I use a "Kleenex" or an "absorbent disposable paper tissue"?

Exactly! No one cares. It's just a short-hand similar to Crescent wrench.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Flywheel bolts, I locktite every time.

 

[6PTsocket]

A good place to use anti-seize is with any so called countersunk bolts - basically like flat head screws except used in metal rather than wood. If they are exposed to water they will rust in place and are very hard to remove. I found these in a Warn winch mount and had a terrible time.

I couldn't agree more. I was trying to remove the the flat heads that held the rotors in place on my Santa Fe. Rust buster, impact screw driver... still stuck. After drilling the heads I could remove the broken stubbs bare handed. All the rust was under the heads. I replaced the screws and used anti seize. Those screws are not really necessary and can be left off but those flat heads are a PIA.

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[Fcvapor05]

I've been using it on most of the suspension of my 4x4s for years. Only down side is ball joint and tie rod services are easy.

Just because you do it doesn't make it safe.

 

[dr_clyde]

If I hab a bad code, should I use a "Kleenex" or an "absorbent disposable paper tissue"?

You must really like Calvin and Hobbes. Not only is your profile picture Calvin, but your "hab a bad code" is a quote from a strip. Nice.

To answer the OP. In my world, it gets one or the other. Nothing stainless get even hand tight without anti-seize. You're gonna have a bad day if you ever need to undo any SS fasteners with no anti-seize.

I tell the workers in the plant " it gets either anti-seize or loctite, NOTHING goes together dry."

My first boss followed this rule in his shop. Working on repeat customers cars was way more pleasant because of this. When he worked for a motor freight company as a semi mechanic, he once had to take apart a brand new Peterbilt truck and anti-seize everything and put it back together. Saved hours and hours through the service life of a long haul truck.

 

[WVBrady]

...he once had to take apart a brand new Peterbilt truck and anti-seize everything and put it back together. Saved hours and hours through the service life of a long haul truck.

I wonder how much it would cost for the manufacturer to do this for the original assembly.

 

[Jim c]

Really those shock studs should probably not be snapping off as you described. If you are removing them by hand, it can be a lot easier and more successful using an impact wrench with swivels ( they apply a pure torque: less tendency to snap off ). You describe using a dremel Stone; please, if you end up needing to grind out something similar in the future, you can purchase carbide cutting bits at FASTENAL for 50 dollars, and using a cheap angle or die grinder, they cut/ remove steel like butter (seriously, you will be done in no time). As for anti-seize, it is something that you will learn to use over time. I would say that once you are properly outfitted with air tools, you will learn that you can ( and probably should) forget anti-seize for shock bolts. You might apply it to things that really rust stuck ( maybe apply a little around the perimeter of sealed bearings prior to inserting them in to the spindle). Lug nuts etc... as mentioned above. Loc-tote blue in MHO should be in every tool box everywhere, but once again, you have to use it based on experience. Heck, I have had distributor rotor screws back out at highway speed ( yeah, had to get a cap and rotor plus more... walking etc... ) prior to that, never even thought about applying loc-tite to such things. Nowadays, I pretty much ask myself what are the chances of this part vibrating loose going down the road and what are the consequences? Try to use it proactively rather than reactively.

 

[Lotek]

...




To specifically answer the question posed originally, "I" would have used anti-seize. However, a medium-strength threadlocker would accomplish approximately the same thing by preventing any water from getting in between the male and female threads. There'd be no corrosion holding the threads together later. A medium-strength threadlocker wouldn't be so secure you'd have trouble getting the fasteners loosened.


^^^ Wisdom. The trick is to figure out HOW MUCH the required torque changes.

 

[trashmanssd]

 

[johnyg]

its like roof mastic.....that **** gets every where!!!!

 

[gregpack]

its like roof mastic.....that **** gets every where!!!!

Yes, it does! No matter how careful I am it gets on my tools, and before you know it's everywhere!

 

[unslow1]

A guy suggested keeping a box of Q-tips next to the anti-seize a few years ago. Using those really helps keeping the mess under control.

 

[kelpaso1]

Hub bearings. Both on the bolts and where the hub slides into the knuckle. I like to think about the next guy that has to take those bastards off years down the road.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Funny this came up - I was looking at the wheel changing instructions of the U-haul, and it specifies copper anti-sieze between the dualies. We always used it on spark plugs (especially into aluminum heads), and also on the connection between a rock drill bit and the impact motor shaft.

And I use Loctite on damn near everything on a motorcycle... because you really want to not have some nuts and bolts fall off. I've also used nail polish as an "emergency loctite", better than nothing IMO.

"Loctite" is a brand name, not a product. If you mean "thread locking compound", say "thread-locking compound", or "threadlocker".

If I hab a bad code, should I use a "Kleenex" or an "absorbent disposable paper tissue"?

I'll down a couple aspirins and grab a band-aid to fix my finger cut while opening a coke. Guess I could use some super glue, but then someone would accuse me of drinking the Kool Aid... All the while if vaseline will protect me from 110...

And we girls have even more that I know would cause most guys to have willies...

I wonder how much it would cost for the manufacturer to do this for the original assembly.

Some do. I've bought fasteners that already have a dollop of the factory approved thread locking compound applied. One really common one is the shear bolts on my snowthrower.