Which breaker panel is most common?

[BirksToyBox]

Hello all. I have been reading hundreds of these threads and have learned a lot. My garage has a 45 foot run of 1.5 and 2 inch pvc conduit. My electrician wants to use 2224 al wire. (which I'm good with). We plan on putting a 100 amp breaker in my main house panel to feed the new garage. My question is which panel type (Square D or Homeline) are folks most using. He also wants me to get this panel https://www.menards.com/main/electr...ck/hom2040m100pcvp/p-1444444027912-c-6437.htm
Whatcha think...a good choice??
thanks, kurt

 

[Jlanciani]

Homeline is the lower cost line from Square D. If I'm spending someone else's money I prefer Square D QO. More importantly, what brand of main panel do you have in your home? If you use the same you need less spare breakers to cover both.

 

[BirksToyBox]

Got both. 200 main is a QO n a 100 sub that’s homeline. And spare breakers of each.
He wants these breakers installed. Pricey little frks

 

[whateg01]

It's his money but I chose a homeline panel for my garage recently. I keep reading that the afci are more problematic than they are worth so I went with standard GFCI even though the cost is about the same.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It's his money but I chose a homeline panel for my garage recently. I keep reading that the afci are more problematic than they are worth so I went with standard GFCI even though the cost is about the same.

AFCI and GFCI have different functions. They are not interchangeable

If the circuit location calls for an AFCI you dont put a GFCI in its place

 

[u2slow]

It varies regionally. I prefer QO equipment. QO has been around for half a century but Homeline only just showed up in Canada some 15 years ago.

FPE is probably still the most common out there

 

[MovingAlong]

He also wants me to get this panel ...

If that is what he wants to stand behind and warranty, I'd go with his recommendation. Change it and when a problem arises you'll hear "well, that's why I recommended the other one"...

They do sell a few of those.

 

[Jim greengo]

It varies regionally. I prefer QO equipment. QO has been around for half a century but Homeline only just showed up in Canada some 15 years ago.

FPE is probably still the most common out there

Home line has been available for not quite 30 years around the omaha area,when they 1st showed up around here there was an open house at electric fixture and supply.
3E supply these days.
Anyway I was talking to a rep from Sq-d who was there,he told me the home line breakers were identical internally to the qo breakers other than the vis'a trip.
It was square d's way of competing with the other brands in the residential market.
I've used a lot of them over years,I've even used a few in small commercial projects when qo stuff was hard to come by.
I've never had a problem with them.

 

[mike93lx]

My house has two homelines in it, and I'd have no qualms with grabbing another.

 

[whateg01]

AFCI and GFCI have different functions. They are not interchangeable

If the circuit location calls for an AFCI you dont put a GFCI in its place

Never said it did, just that I chose not to use afci because of the problems I've read about other people having. If op ahj requires afci, then use it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Homeline is the lower cost line from Square D. If I'm spending someone else's money I prefer Square D QO.

Probably the most common in commercial/industrial installations.

 

[Kezorm]

My electrician wants to use 2224 al wire. (which I'm good with). We plan on putting a 100 amp breaker in my main house panel to feed the new garage.

2AWG aluminum is only good for 90A to a sub-panel.

 

[mike93lx]

2AWG aluminum is only good for 90A to a sub-panel.

Good catch

 

[u2slow]

Probably the most common in commercial/industrial installations.

QO used to be the next most common after FPE for residential and commercial around here. Siemens largely replaced FPE for newer installations. Homeline has been late to the game.

 

[micromind]

I don't do a lot of resi but around here, FPE is the most common by far. Most new stuff is Square D Homeline, all-in-ones mounted outside on a garage wall.

 

[Norcal]

QO used to be the next most common after FPE for residential and commercial around here. Siemens largely replaced FPE for newer installations. Homeline has been late to the game.

As long as Eaton BR, & GE, are avoided any other panel is fine, Eaton CH, & SQ D QO, are the premium panel lines, SQ D, Homeline, Siemens, are good choices too,around here FPE was not used much, but some SQ D, plus Zinsco, Cutler-Hammer, ITE (Siemens), GE.

 

[Innovate1]

The Homeline value packs are a good way to go IMHO. That's what I used. 90A is fine for most shops unless you have some big machines and more than one person really going at things. The 100A main on the sub panel is fine - it's the feeding breaker that needs to be sized for the feed wire size. If you have any hint you might need a few more spaces some day I think you can get slightly more spaces for very little more - cheap and easy to do up front.

 

[alfredeneuman]

The internal "workings" of a Homeline breaker is exactly the same as a QO with the exception of the visible trip (red flag) indicator.
They're wider (1" vs 3/4") so should dissipate heat more efficiently.
The 2 plug into the bus differently.

 

[sparky 1971]

I do my best to use SQD exclusively, there are exceptions like service work where a different brand is used and during Covid when SQD was almost non existent. I have no problem using Homeline and put a 200 amp HOM panel in my own house and a 100 amp HOM in the garage. The breakers have the same guts, but busbar is where the bid difference is. QO is tinned copper and HOM is tinned aluminum.

Siemens is good stuff too, but the SH that carries it is a pain for me to get to and I don't want to install a Siemens panel in a new build only to find out I need a QP225 for the AC, which the box stores won't have. Most of the places I work would require an hour to get the the SH and back. Eaton BR is pretty popular due to the cheap price, but I don't have any experience with it, Eaton CH is pretty much non existent but I don't know why, and nobody carries GE anything outside of a few breakers and that is the same SH I have to go to for Siemens.

 

[SouthernIllinois]

As long as Eaton BR, & GE, are avoided any other panel is fine, Eaton CH, & SQ D QO, are the premium panel lines, SQ D, Homeline, Siemens, are good choices too,around here FPE was not used much, but some SQ D, plus Zinsco, Cutler-Hammer, ITE (Siemens), GE.

I know NOTHING about wiring and my electrician gave me a shopping list of everything I would need for my pole barn.
One of those items was a 200 amp, 40 hole breaker panel.
The only one Menards had was a an Eaton - pictured below.
What is the issue with it?
I haven't opened it yet and I can always return it IF there is a valid reason.
Any input would be welcome - like I said, I don't know much about wiring or the associated components.

 

[MovingAlong]

I know NOTHING about wiring and my electrician gave me a shopping list of everything I would need for my pole barn.
One of those items was a 200 amp, 40 hole breaker panel.
The only one Menards had was a an Eaton - pictured below.
What is the issue with it?
I haven't opened it yet and I can always return it IF there is a valid reason.
Any input would be welcome - like I said, I don't know much about wiring or the associated components.

Believe he was warning against the Eaton BR series only. What you're showing is the Eaton CH series, part of their acquisition of Cutler-Hammer...

More details here:

 

[SouthernIllinois]

Believe he was warning against the Eaton BR series only. What you're showing is the Eaton CH series, part of their acquisition of Cutler-Hammer...

More details here:

Gotcha - thanks. I recognized the Cutler-Hammer name on the box and assumed it was okay.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Nope that is a BR panel and breakers. Not sure why it says cutler hammer series. CH breakers have tan handles and a CH P/N

 

[sparky 1971]

Believe he was warning against the Eaton BR series only. What you're showing is the Eaton CH series, part of their acquisition of Cutler-Hammer...

More details here:

Looks like a BR series to me, as evidenced by the part number beginning with BR in the lower right hand corner as well as the pictures of BR breakers on the label. That being said, I don't know of any real issues with them. They trace their roots back to the crappy Zinsco's from a long time ago which may make some people biased against them. My biggest problem with them is the aluminum bus, some say it's coated but it sure looks like bare aluminum to me. When I have install a breaker in one I squirt some noalox in the breaker slots if for nothing else, to make me feel better about it. I do the same with Siemens aluminum, that way I can't be accused of discrimination.

 

[mark-NJ]

QO panels have plated copper busworks. Homeline is aluminum. Read the specs...it's true.

I'll take the copper....

 

[mike93lx]

QO panels have plated copper busworks. Homeline is aluminum. Read the specs...it's true.

I'll take the copper....

Wait til you find out what most of the feeder wire is made from...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Looks like a BR series to me, as evidenced by the part number beginning with BR in the lower right hand corner as well as the pictures of BR breakers on the label. That being said, I don't know of any real issues with them. They trace their roots back to the crappy Zinsco's from a long time ago which may make some people biased against them. My biggest problem with them is the aluminum bus, some say it's coated but it sure looks like bare aluminum to me. When I have install a breaker in one I squirt some noalox in the breaker slots if for nothing else, to make me feel better about it. I do the same with Siemens aluminum, that way I can't be accused of discrimination.

Actually, their roots are to BRyant (hence the BR) that was a subsidiary of westinghouse, which had the same breakers with colored handles.

Zinsco was never part of the lineage and only gets mixed into the history because westinghouse bought challenger in the 80s. challenger was the successor to zinsco. Westinghouse then sold their electrical division to eaton in 1994.

Challenger and T&B actually continued to make zinsco breakers until 2005

But again, the BR design does not have any home-age to zinsco breakers…

You can read some of the history here

Zinsco - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

And bryant history here

Bryant Electric Company - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As you can see, Bryant was founded (1888) long before zinsco (1930)

 

[sparky 1971]

Actually, their roots are to BRyant (hence the BR) that was a subsidiary of westinghouse, which had the same breakers with colored handles.

Zinsco was never part of the lineage and only gets mixed into the history because westinghouse bought challenger in the 80s. challenger was the successor to zinsco. Westinghouse then sold their electrical division to eaton in 1994.

Challenger and T&B actually continued to make zinsco breakers until 2005

But again, the BR design does not have any home-age to zinsco breakers…

You can read some of the history here

Zinsco - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

And bryant history here

Bryant Electric Company - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As you can see, Bryant was founded (1888) long before zinsco (1930)

I stand corrected, thank you for clarifying that. I did know that BR came from BRyant somewhere along the line, but didn't know about Challenger or anything else before that. My statement was based on info that has been put on this forum several times with BR being referred to as Zinsco 2. I also know that Eaton goes back to Westinghouse only because I have one customer with a 22 bay tractor trailer shop full of Westinghouse gear and I occasionally have to make the trip across town to the Eaton SH to pick up a breaker, but not often enough to know the part numbers, I know the 120/208 is BAB, but have no clue as to the 277/480 so I usually take a breaker with me and tell them to get me one of those in whatever size I need. Personally, I don't have a problem with BR, nor do I know of any known problems. I just don't use it because, like Siemens, it's a little more effort for me to source the oddball breaker sizes, a two pole 25, 35, 45, 70, 80, and 90 aren't in the box stores and it's a PITA for me to get to the SH's that do have them. Square D for the win in that department, for me at least. I know others that say the same thing about using SQD which means, like real estate, location is everything.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

@Norcal is the one that refers to BR as being zinsco 2 but its not because of lineage. Its because its a low cost budget line of breakers and they are garbage just like zinsco was.

Ive seen BR breakers melt at the stabs. Ive also seen challenger breakers melt at the stabs and crumble

Ive also seen zinsco breakers not trip when they should have

 

[Norcal]

Westinghouse adopted the Challenger panel design & had Westinghouse breakers listed for Challenger, dumping Challenger breakers.

 

[mike93lx]

@Norcal is the one that refers to BR as being zinsco 2 but its not because of lineage. Its because its a low cost budget line of breakers and they are garbage just like zinsco was.

Ive seen BR breakers melt at the stabs. Ive also seen challenger breakers melt at the stabs and crumble

Ive also seen zinsco breakers not trip when they should have

The house my folks are renovating has two BR panels from the late 80's...how hard do I need to push for replacement? They're going to argue against, so if you have anything I can use to support, I'd appreciate it

 

[MovingAlong]

Looks like a BR series to me, as evidenced by the part number beginning with BR in the lower right hand corner as well as the pictures of BR breakers on the label. That being said, I don't know of any real issues with them. They trace their roots back to the crappy Zinsco's from a long time ago which may make some people biased against them. My biggest problem with them is the aluminum bus, some say it's coated but it sure looks like bare aluminum to me. When I have install a breaker in one I squirt some noalox in the breaker slots if for nothing else, to make me feel better about it. I do the same with Siemens aluminum, that way I can't be accused of discrimination.

@SouthernIllinois I think @sparky 1971 has a point with the part number, I zero'd in on the name and missed the items in green:



Think a phone call might be in order...

 

[BreeStephany]

If I were building a shop, I would personally go with either a Square D QO panel or a Eaton PRL panelboard. I do like Eaton PRL panels in that they use BAB bolt-on breakers and the bussing is modular, so if there is ever a bussing failure at a breaker, you are just replacing the bussing riser at the breaker and likely not the entire panel bussing. PRL panelboards are also VERY roomy compared to most traditional recessed panels... but they are panelboards, so they are surface mounted and you bring in your NM / MC in-wall circuits through the back and then have the panelboard's top for surface-mounted conduit.

Eaton BAB breakers are common, but not all that common in residential, so they are more costly and AFCI / GFCI breakers, surge suppression devices ARE more costly than Eaton BR, Square D QO or Homeline and are definitely going to have to be ordered from a distributor.

In regards to which would be more common for a residential shop, Square D QO and Eaton BR Plug-On-Neutral (PON) panels are the most common.

I would highly recommend sizing the bussing of any sub panel 30~50A over the size of the intended feeding branch circuit / OCPD. This allows for your bussing to be rated for future expansion such as solar, battery backfeeding, etc.

Just my two cents.

 

[PCustoms]

If I were building a shop, I would personally go with either a Square D QO panel or a Eaton PRL panelboard. I do like Eaton PRL panels in that they use BAB bolt-on breakers and the bussing is modular, so if there is ever a bussing failure at a breaker, you are just replacing the bussing riser at the breaker and likely not the entire panel bussing. PRL panelboards are also VERY roomy compared to most traditional recessed panels... but they are panelboards, so they are surface mounted and you bring in your NM / MC in-wall circuits through the back and then have the panelboard's top for surface-mounted conduit.

Eaton BAB breakers are common, but not all that common in residential, so they are more costly and AFCI / GFCI breakers, surge suppression devices ARE more costly than Eaton BR, Square D QO or Homeline and are definitely going to have to be ordered from a distributor.

In regards to which would be more common for a residential shop, Square D QO and Eaton BR Plug-On-Neutral (PON) panels are the most common.

I would highly recommend sizing the bussing of any sub panel 30~50A over the size of the intended feeding branch circuit / OCPD. This allows for your bussing to be rated for future expansion such as solar, battery backfeeding, etc.

Just my two cents.

Man I don't even know where to start to decipher this post...

 

[SouthernIllinois]

Man I don't even know where to start to decipher this post...

Me either

 

[micromind]

Man I don't even know where to start to decipher this post

Made perfect sense to me......on the other hand, I've installed many panels like this.

The Eaton PRL is a panel with bolt-on breakers. It's more of an industrial model but it'll work perfectly well for just about any application.

One advantage to bolt-on breakers is they almost never burn up. In all my years of industrial electrical installation, maintenance and repair, the only bolt-on breakers I've seen burn up were GE and that was because the factory cross-threaded the screws.

A typical resi panel is 14" wide. An industrial one (like the PRL) is 20. Lots more room.

 

[PCustoms]

Seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist residentially.

 

[u2slow]

Some of the larger 100A panels (say 32 space) have 125A bus and can accept the 125A breaker.

Just leaves another upgrade path open for minimal extra cost.

 

[sparky 1971]

Man I don't even know where to start to decipher this post...

Me either

Translation: Panel boards are always better. Those are the big commercial panels, 20" wide, 6" deep, and height dependent on what the guts are. They come in pieces, separate tub, bus bar assembly, dead front, cover, and whatever else is needed and get put together on site. Of course, there's always a downside and in this case, they are expensive. The last time I did anything that I used a panelboard was in 2018, so pre Covid. I bought a SQD 200 amp main breaker 40 space single phase board with I think 10 QOB120, two QOB230, and QOB240 and two QOB250 breakers and it was about $1000.00. I can't speak for all contractors, but I can't even call up the supply house and get an immediate contractor price. The salesman takes the info and submits it to SQD for pricing. Anyone can go in off the street and buy one, but it's going to be an arm and a leg, or two. If I ever get around to building my big shop it will probably have a panelboard, but in all honesty, a load center is more than sufficient. But a panelboard looks way better...

 

[Norcal]

If I was buying a panelboard for my shop would lean towards a SQ D NQOB, accepts plug in and bolt on breakers, Cutler-Hammer had their PB panelboard that did the same, but it went away with the Westinghouse acquisition.