Which two post lift should I get?

[jcs_in_ky]

I've got a four post lift now but am going to add a second lift to my shop and want to put in a two post. I'm looking at two Bendpak models. Thee first model is the XPR-10ACX which is Asymetric but uses the new "Tru-metric" arms which Bendpak says allows it to be used as a Asymetric and Symetric. That sounds like the best of both worlds but when I contacted Bendpak they told me it's still primarily a Asymetric lift. The second model is the APR-10CX which is a Symetric but they say also works as an Asymetric. I will mainly use the lift for SUV type vehicles (Ford Explorer, Jeep Cherokee, etc), a F-350 pickup for wheel and brake work (I'll probably do most of the other work on the larger vehicles on the 4 post) with some occasional use with smaller cars (Nissan, Toyota, etc). I realize no one lift (or two in my case) will be ideal for every vehicle but which of the two would you go with for my uses? I've got plenty of space both floor and ceiling so that won't be a factor in the decision.
Thanks, John

 

[Industrial Concepts]

Have you considered a Challenger Lift, they are made in Louisville?

 

[SteveU]

Given that you will use it for SUV/pickup trucks I would get a symmetric with wide spacing between the posts. My Mohawk has 120" spacing on the posts and it isn't that hard to get into or out of a car without dinging the door as long as you don't just fling it open which is one of the reasons given to get a asymmetric. I have picked up my daughter's wagon with mine so a narrow vehicle shouldn't be a problem. I drive a 93 corolla wagon & it does good on that.

 

[jcs_in_ky]

I looked at Challenger, they look like a nice lift. I've got some credit with the company I bought from last time and they sell Bendpak so I need to go with one of their models so I can use the credit.

SteveU, Thanks for the info. I was thinking the same thing, that if I went with a wide symmetric I'd probably be ok with the cars if I was careful getting in and out. It seems like the way they lift the weight would be distributed better for a pickup or van.

 

[OldCarGuy]

I own a BendPak XPR-10ACX and it has no trouble handling my 3/4 ton Avalanche 2500 that weights in at 7,100 pounds empty. In the past I thought that an asymmetrical style lift would have problems handling larger SUV’s and trucks. The XPR-10ACX made a believer out of me. They can handle larger vehicles as well as conventional front wheel drive cars.

If you haven’t noticed I just posted an evaluation of it along side of a Ben Pearson and Mohawk lift. The second link goes to the installation of the XPR.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19456

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18309

 

[jcs_in_ky]

Old Car guy, have you ever tried to put a 1 ton dually (F350 or similar) on yours? Like I said I'd probably only use the 2 post to do tires and brakes on a truck like that and do the other work on my 4 post.

 

[OldCarGuy]

No I haven’t put anything heavier than my Avalanche on my BendPak. Though length of the front arms have long enough reach that I would believe that the centerline of the dually could be situated forward enough to handle it safely. Best to have BendPak confirm that though...

I'll see if I can find someone to volunteer their dually...

 

[jcs_in_ky]

I talked to a couple of people at Bendpak and got different answers from both of them. They told me they have some customers that go either way symetrical / asymetrical for larger trucks and it depends on which they prefer. I'm not sure what the empty weight of an F350 is but I don't think it's much more than your Avalanche, maybe not quite that much. The one I work on the most is one I recently bought, it's a single cab, dually with a flatbed which probably weighs slightly more than a regular box type bed. If I was a little closer to you I'd volunteer my dually for a test on yours.

 

[OldCarGuy]

From what I’ve found on the web, a Ford F350 weighs anywhere from 5,6800 to 6700 pounds. Depending on cab style, engine, and the source. With that in mind, and knowing that the BenPak handles my Avalanche, I’d imagine that it would handle an F350 as well.

 

[jcs_in_ky]

I was doing a search and that's about what I came up with as well. I've been meaning to weigh this truck and see what it comes out at. I'd say it's probably not quite as nose heavy as an average pickup because of the weight of the flatbed and the dual rear wheels. That should be a good thing when it comes to lifting it though.

I noticed some people have complaints of their lift arms being almost too short when it comes to lifting a very narrow vehicle. Have you noticed any problems or potential problems like that?

John

 

[FunfDreisig]

One of the most frustrating things I found about deciding whether to get a symmetric vs asymmetric 2 post lift was how little real information is available on the manufactures web sites. Oh there is a lot of "descriptive" info but almost no hard engineering facts.

For example, where exactly does an asymmetric lift expect to have the center of mass? And how far off can you be before you exceed the design specs?

I really expected the manuals to have detailed diagrams of how to position various types of vehicles on the lift (e.g. sedans, wagons, rear engine sports cars, SUVs, pickup trucks, etc.. But like most manuals these days, the part about how to actually use the product is a meager few sentences* sandwiched between the CYA safety warnings and the limited warranty info

Funf Dreisig

* The 39 page BendPak manual includes 8 sentences about how "To Raise Lift" and 6 about how "To Lower the Lift".

 

[jcs_in_ky]

That's the kind of information I'd like to see as well. I was hoping I could find some but my experience trying to find the information has been the same as yours.

 

[OldCarGuy]

I noticed some people have complaints of their lift arms being almost too short when it comes to lifting a very narrow vehicle. Have you noticed any problems or potential problems like that?

John

Assuming that both the wide and narrow versions of the BendPak lift have the same arms, longer reaches on a narrow vehicle would become more of a problem on the wider model. However the arms on my lift seem to have enough reach to overcome that.

The reference guide for lift points that came with my lift shows the lift points on a F350 to be rather close together (front to rear) compared to most vehicles. Seeing that, you would be able shift the position, relative to the columns, more than most vehicles to balance the truck better.

 

[OldCarGuy]

One of the most frustrating things I found about deciding whether to get a symmetric vs asymmetric 2 post lift was how little real information is available on the manufactures web sites. Oh there is a lot of "descriptive" info but almost no hard engineering facts.

For example, where exactly does an asymmetric lift expect to have the center of mass? And how far off can you be before you exceed the design specs?

I really expected the manuals to have detailed diagrams of how to position various types of vehicles on the lift (e.g. sedans, wagons, rear engine sports cars, SUVs, pickup trucks, etc.. But like most manuals these days, the part about how to actually use the product is a meager few sentences* sandwiched between the CYA safety warnings and the limited warranty info

Funf Dreisig

* The 39 page BendPak manual includes 8 sentences about how "To Raise Lift" and 6 about how "To Lower the Lift".

Both my BendPak and Mohawk came with a reference guide of vehicle lifting points. That is a big help. But it's still up to the operator to position the vehicle properely not to exceed the load on any arms.

 

[jcs_in_ky]

Thanks again for the info. That looks like a nice lift. I think that's probably the one I'll end up with at this point. I like my HD-12 but really need to get this 2 post soon for doing brake and tire work. Just need to sell a extra rolling jack I have and I'll be ready to place an order.
John

 

[FunfDreisig]

Both my BendPak and Mohawk came with a reference guide of vehicle lifting points. That is a big help. But it's still up to the operator to position the vehicle properely not to exceed the load on any arms.

Hmmm... I've downloaded lots of stuff from both the BendPaK and Mohawk sites. But maybe I haven't searched these two websites hard enough. This would seem to be the kind of info that any prospective buyer should be able to find easily.

BTW did these "reference guide of vehicle lifting points" simply tell you where on the vehicle to place the lift pads? Or did it also tell you where to position the vehicle with respect to the posts?

For example, the BendPak manual I downloaded says to...
* Position vehicle between columns
* Adjust swing arms so that the vehicle is positioned with the center of gravity midway between the pads.

I assume with a symmetrical lift you would also want the pads centered (fore and aft) on the columns. But it is not as clear exactly where to locate the center of the pads on an asymmetrical lift.

Funf Dreisig

 

[jcs_in_ky]

I bet this book is the book that came with his lifts http://www.partsandpeople.com/article/2077
I see it's listed in the store part of the Automotive Lift Institute website for $10.00. It's not specific to one lift though. I guess you can go by the information in that book and try to get some answer out of Bendpak or whatever lift you choose as to exactly where they want the balance point of the vehicle located in respect to the posts.

 

[OldCarGuy]

I bet this book is the book that came with his lifts http://www.partsandpeople.com/article/2077
I see it's listed in the store part of the Automotive Lift Institute website for $10.00. It's not specific to one lift though. I guess you can go by the information in that book and try to get some answer out of Bendpak or whatever lift you choose as to exactly where they want the balance point of the vehicle located in respect to the posts.

That’s the book. It covers cars and light trucks from 1987 to 2008. And only has the recommended lifting points.

It’s up to the operator how far to position the car into the lift. I’ve never read anywhere where a lift manufacturer determines this other than a vague statement of balancing centerline of the vehicle. And never to put more than a quarter of the lift’s capacity on any lift arm. Plus cargo loads in the vehicle or added accessories will change the balance point.

 

[jcs_in_ky]

OldCarGuy, If it's not too much trouble would you mind looking up the following vehicle in your book and letting me know what they list for the lift points?
2002 Ford F-350, single cab, dual rear wheels, V-10 engine. I'm not sure what other info you'd need.
John

 

[JSK]

All good stuff.

A lift that undergoes ALI/ETL testing will be loaded worst case scenario always.

That means the rear arms extended to maximum reach and the rated load capacity centered between the lift pads.

On asymmetric models, the rear long arms are pulled all the way out (extending towards the rear of the lift) and the front arms positioned at 90-degrees with the load centered between the lift pads. So the lift is literally loaded cantilevered to the rear.

We are then required to raise 150% of load capacity up and down 5 times. A special power unit is used for this test. The lift is then torn apart and checked for any "permanent signs of deformation or wear". If permanent deformation of any component is detected, the lift does not pass the test.

In addition to physical testing, all designs and materials must be calculated using engineering formulas and FEA to withstand 300% rated load. Some components 500% based on ultimate tensile.

I have physically seen our 10K asymmetric two-post lifts raise 30,000-pounds with no failure of parts even when loaded rear cantilevered.

Non-approved lifts, non-ALI lift companies, who knows?

Hope this eases your concerns.

Jeff Kritzer
SR. VP.
BendPak Inc.

 

[jcs_in_ky]

Jeff, In your opinion how would the XPR-10ACX do lifting a 1 ton dually like a F350? Would I be better off with the symetric model? If I did go with the XPR-10CX would I have a hard time positioning smaller cars so that I can get in and out of them? Thanks, John

 

[JSK]

jcs – The asymmetric models will surely make exiting the car much easier. Either lift will balance the truck at the exact same four lifting points.

Can a BP asymmetric lift withstand the loads being induced on the arms, carriages and columns when loaded back-heavy all the time? For a BP or any other certified lift product, or one that has gone ETL testing, the answer is - no problem - the lifts are built plenty strong enough.

Does an F350 balance better on one than the other? No, an F350 will balance the same on either a symmetric or asymmetric lifts. (Same four lifting points). On non-certified lift products, or bargain lifts that are not as heavy-built I would strongly reverse the claim as they tend to have weaker long rear arms / carriages that may sag excessively putting the truck in an off-balance position.

All Ford trucks from 150 up can be tricky to load and lift due to their frames and the black rust-proof coating applied to the undercarriage. I would strongly suggest ordering a set of frame cradle pad adapters specifically designed for lifting trucks.

Jeff

 

[FunfDreisig]

....On asymmetric models, the rear long arms are pulled all the way out (extending towards the rear of the lift) and the front arms positioned at 90-degrees with the load centered between the lift pads. So the lift is literally loaded cantilevered to the rear.....

Thanks for the good test info Jeff

I would assume that the failure point on a lift over loaded as you describe would be the front bolts holding the posts down. It would seem that at some point you could get enough weight on the rear arms to literally tip the whole lift backward, pulling them out of the cement. Is that correct?

Or does keeping at least half the load centered between the posts take enough strain off these bolts to keep them from pulling out?

Thanks in Advance - Funf Dreisig

 

[JSK]

I can honestly say that we have never experienced anchor failures during the testing.

The anchors have a load rating of 12K each assuming proper embedment and 3000 PSI concrete at recommended depth.

Most people do focus on the anchors, but they would be the least to fail at extreme loads.

The largest loads are placed at the lift arm pivot points. Moment loads in this area can be as 150K pounds each on a 10K lift.

Nice chattin with you guys.

Jeff
BendPak

 

[SteveU]

Old Car guy, have you ever tried to put a 1 ton dually (F350 or similar) on yours? Like I said I'd probably only use the 2 post to do tires and brakes on a truck like that and do the other work on my 4 post.

My buddy has a 3500 Dodge ram dually with the 5.9 diesel, according to the weight gauge on my lift it is about 7500 lbs but he has a 250 gal tank on the front part of the bed. The Mohawk lifts it no problem as I'm sure a 10K Rotary or Bendpak would, wouldn't try it on a cheap import/non certified lift.

 

[OldCarGuy]

OldCarGuy, If it's not too much trouble would you mind looking up the following vehicle in your book and letting me know what they list for the lift points?
2002 Ford F-350, single cab, dual rear wheels, V-10 engine. I'm not sure what other info you'd need.
John

The four contact points listed in my book are on the main frame rails. The rear pair are placed just forward of the front of the rear leaf spring anchors. The front pair are set just behind what looks like front axle stabilizer bar frame mounts. And just forward of the cross member. The four lift pad looks as if they form a perfect square.

Two caution notes on drawing:
Position the hoist adapters to avoid contact with the fuel tank.

Damage to the suspension, exhaust, or steering linkage components may occur if care is not exercised when positioning the hoist adapters pror to lifting the vehicle.

 

[jcs_in_ky]

OldCarGuy, Thanks for the info.

 

[FunfDreisig]

....Most people do focus on the anchors, but they would be the least to fail at extreme loads.....

That's good news. Thanks for taking the time to answer these nOOb questions

Funf Dreisig

 

[Insomnya3AM]

I've got three Rotary 9,000 pound two-post lifts in excellent shape for sale. If you're interested, give me a call at 313-903-2963.

 

[jcs_in_ky]

Insomnya, Thanks for the info. I looked up your area code to see where you are located and that's too far for me to travel right now to see them or purchase one.

 

[OldCarGuy]

A nice accessary when lifting trucks on a two post lift would be BendPak’s P/N 5174006 Frame Cradle Adapter Set pictured below. They’ll set you back about $135.00. But makes setting the lift arms easier and safer. They can be purchased from any BendPak dealer.

Standard lift pads for BendPak two-post lifts on left. The Frame Cradle Adapter on the right.

View of Adapters lifting my Avalanche 2500...

 

[pattenp]

I have a Challenger Versymmetric® CL-9 (9000lb)2-Post Lift. Very happy with it. I've had it for about two years now, paid $2950 + $500 for delevery and install. Does both symmetrically and asymmetrically.