To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Whitworth BSF Tools.

westcoastkevin

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
49
Hi,
Does anyone here have any Whitworth or BSF tools? I have an old british project and I have a modest collection at this point.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Gmonkee

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,774
I have a near complete set of Fukung whits and a spattering of car kit tools.

No projects present or planned but I am ready anyway.
 

mikegt4

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
3,266
Location
sw ohio
Craftsman made BSW years ago in several varieties. Received a complete set of 12 pt. boxed, offset wrenches in the factory pouch for a 1/2 hour welding job back in the 80's.
Good stuff.

I have Craftsman BSW wrench and socket sets that I bought back in the late 1960's. I still find a use for them every once in a while.
 

snapmom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
3,519
Location
Florida
I have a few too.
003-10.jpg


002-16.jpg


001-24.jpg
 

6PTsocket

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
4,593
I had a Canadian built sailboat with a lot of British hardware. The turnbuckles that adjusted the mast rigging were Whitworth. I ground a little off an SAE 7/16 wrench and that is the extent of my Whitworth collection.You can't get much smaller than that.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

Elsinore13

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Messages
504
Ended up with a really nice 1970 BSA 441 Victor Special quite a few years back that needed some carb work to get going. Neither a 13mm or 1/2 inch would get that fugger off. My old motorcycle friend was laughing at me. First time I had ever hear of a Whitworth.
 

F124C

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
1,829
Location
Ireland
Before you rush out to buy Whitworth tools, keep in mind that most WW, BSF and BA sizes are either the same or very close to metric plus some standard (inch) sizes, as I've listed below.

So you don't absolutely have to buy a set of Whitworth sized tools. (plus you might have to search a bit for them in the U.S.). Some suppliers of parts for classic British cars/motorcycles can also supply sets of W/BSF wrenches, sockets.

8BA = 5/32"AF = 4.00mm
7BA = 4.50mm
6BA = 3/16"AF =5.00mm
5BA = 7/32"AF = 5.50mm
4BA = 1/4"AF = 6.00mm
3BA = 9/32"AF = 7.00mm
2BA = 5/16"AF = 8.00mm
1/8"W = 11/32"AF = 9.00mm
1BA = 3/8"AF
0BA = 13/32"AF = 10.00mm
3/16"W = 7/16"AF = 11.00mm
1/4"W = 1/2"AF = 13.00mm
5/16"W = 19/32"AF = 15.00mm
3/8"W = 18.00mm
7/16"W = 13/16"AF = 21.00mm
1/2"W = 23.00mm
9/16"W = 26.00mm
5/8W = 28.00mm
11/16"W = 1. 3/16"AF = 30.00mm
3/4"W = 1. 5/16"AF = 33.00mm
13/16"W = 1. 3/8"AF
7/8"W = 1. 1/2"AF = 38.00mm
1.0"W = 1. 11/16"AF

In case you don't already know-
AF = means measured across the flats of the bolt or nut.

BA (British Association) sizes are used for the very small fasteners on old British motorcycles, cars. They're usually found on electrical equipment. Most common sizes are 6, 4, 2 and 0 BA. You'll see from the above that the larger the BA number, the smaller the size. OBA is the largest.

BSF and Whitworth wrenches are the same except that the BSF sizes are 1/16" larger. e.g. 1/4"W = 5/16" BSF. Often both sizes are marked on each end of the wrench. Whitworth sizes refer to the diameter of the thread not the bolt head size. You won't need all the sizes listed above, really depends on the make/model of car/bike and as shown you could manage without any - your choice. :)

Hth,

AL.
 

F124C

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
1,829
Location
Ireland
Ended up with a really nice 1970 BSA 441 Victor Special quite a few years back that needed some carb work to get going. Neither a 13mm or 1/2 inch would get that fugger off. My old motorcycle friend was laughing at me. First time I had ever hear of a Whitworth.

Must have been the infamous 1/4" W (5/16"BSF), that catches most people out the first time they encounter one. A worn 13mm or a badly worn 1/2" might fit...

I started off my career with hand-me-down well worn wrenches - that's how I know this....:)

AL.
 

Dave455

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
5,803
Location
Sussex, England
Well, as I’m in the U.K. and work on a lot of stuff that uses them, I’ve got a load!

Most of my wrenches are older British made ones, mostly Britool, but some Bedford, Gordon and Garrington too. I have fairly complete sets of open ender’s, ring spanners (box end if you live in the U.S.) and combination wrenches.

I also have a nice set of Snap On combination wrenches which I tend to reserve for aircraft applications!

Socket wise, again it’s mostly older British makes, primarily Britool, but I do have some more modern KoKen (very nice quality, and one of the few makers to offer a good selection of sockets in Whit / BSF, including 6 and 12 point, deep and universal). I also have, again, Snap On sockets in both 1/4 and 3/8 drive for aircraft applications.

Much advice here is good. Yes, BSW and BSF use the same range of sizes (BSF fasteners are one size smaller) but only on pre war equipment! After that both BSF and BSW use the same (smaller size), and 3/16 and 1/8 use BA sizes!

Personally, I would avoid using ‘something close’ and get the correct tools. I knew a guy who was restoring an old fire engine. He was using a metric socket set and wrenches and just picking the nearest, but of course if a metric size doesn’t quite fit, you end up using a size nearly a whole millimeter bigger, which is too big! Every nut he attacked seemed to be rounded off!

When you have the correct tools life gets easy - measure the thread, pick up the wrench so marked - easy. You will only need about 4 sizes for a bike, and probably only one more on a car!

Good advice to get some BA sizes as well. When the U.K. adopted Unified threads (SAE) the smaller numbered threads were not generally adopted, so BA sizes were used much later. 2, 4, and 6 will probably do most things!

If you’re looking to buy new, I’d probably go for King **** or Elora wrenches. There are many others, but these are probably the best quality for the price. Snap On are very nice but very costly! For socket wrenches it pretty much has to be KoKen, though the King **** are pretty good too, and certainly rugged!

There are a lot of British Standard sizes out there. Although I use them on vehicles, and even aircraft parts, I use them most on machine tools. I’d say the majority of machines I work on use BS fasteners. Even relatively new machines have them. The biggest single use, worldwide, is probably pipe threads, and you find these everywhere - except of course the U.S.
 
Last edited:

stonesg

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
249
Location
SE Georgia
I second the "get the right tools" motion.

I'm rebuilding a BSA B25 motor right now and I was very happy to have a W socket and wrench set particularly when it came time to split the cases.

The case nuts and bolts were particularly tight and a tight fitting socket is just what was needed.

TG
 

MShaw

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
1,013
Location
York, Pa.
That reminds me of when my company purchased a Platarg transfer press made in London UK. I questioned why all the fasteners seemed to be SAE when the UK was supposed to have "gone metric" before I was there in 1987.

The answer was "do you know how hard it is to run out of bolts, nuts, taps, dies, wrenches, and gages all at the same time?"
 

davethorik

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
4,992
Location
Norka, Ohio
I just saw a set of Snap-on whitworth wrenches in the roll for $40. I was thinking about scooping them, but I have zero need.
 

F124C

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
1,829
Location
Ireland
Siegen Tools do an 8 piece Combination Wrench set with 'WallDrive' on the ring (box) end, covering 1/8" - 9/16" Whitworth.

Moss USA (www.mossmotors.com) do sets of Combo Wrenches, 1/8" - 9/16" made by Laser Tools, available with or without a leather tool roll. They also have a 1/4" sq.dr., 9 piece deep socket set covering 0BA- 9BA. Plus some individual Whitworth sockets by Elora.

You could also investigate the possibility of using those new-fangled spline? type sockets which are supposed to fit all types of fastener.......

AL.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

southalabama

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
5,535
Location
Brewton AL
I've gotten tired of googling. Been working on a older yazoo high wheel mower. With much aggravation I've finally figured out the rear axles are 3/8x26 tpi. You can't find them at a hardware store and online prices are $$$. Is that more common in Britain or what gives?? I really hate paying a couple bucks for a single flange nut.
 

Dave455

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
5,803
Location
Sussex, England
I've gotten tired of googling. Been working on a older yazoo high wheel mower. With much aggravation I've finally figured out the rear axles are 3/8x26 tpi. You can't find them at a hardware store and online prices are $$$. Is that more common in Britain or what gives?? I really hate paying a couple bucks for a single flange nut.

3/8 x 26 is a cycle thread.

These things came about because threads were being cut on lathes that needed gears swapping to change thread pitches, so there’s a whole range of thread sizes that use 3 or 4 thread pitches.

It will be a 3/8 BSC (British Standard Cycle)
 

Dave455

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2013
Messages
5,803
Location
Sussex, England
They’re not as common as BSW or BSF, even here!

You can find ‘em easily amongst the classic bike crowd though - chrome and stainless too - and nothing like the prices you’ve found!

I’d chuck you a couple in the post, but the shipping to the U.S. would probably cost more than you can find ‘em for locally!
 

2oolhound

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
5,918
Location
BC Canada
I've gotten tired of googling. Been working on a older yazoo high wheel mower. With much aggravation I've finally figured out the rear axles are 3/8x26 tpi. You can't find them at a hardware store and online prices are $$$. Is that more common in Britain or what gives?? I really hate paying a couple bucks for a single flange nut.

If it's not BSC it could be BSB (British Standard Brass) which makes all sizes at 26 tpi also but in a whitworth thread form (which makes it perfect for this "Whitworth BSF Tools" thread we're in here). BSC is actually a 60' pitch whereas BSB is a 55' pitch with round peaks and valleys. It is used for tubing where you can't cut too deeply into the metal because of the thin walls.
 

Gmonkee

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,774
Right or wrong we would have run a tap or die on or into it the bring it to a more common standard. A castle nut with cotter pin just to make sure.

Hack is one word but if getting it back in service was reall important...
A trophy grade restoration would require finding that magical correct bit.
 

MacMcMacmac

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
1,583
Location
canada
What's really fun is finding that 1/2" UNC and 1/2" Whitworth are 1 TPI different.

Then all those heavy, water filled aftercoolers on your 12,000hp GEC turbo-compressor you spent 2 weeks repairing, immediately begin to leak in service because several hundred fasteners you thought were properly torqued were just thread-bound due to the different pitches.

Good times.
 

Tonyuk

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
1,539
Location
Scotland
You'll need metric, imperial and whitworth working on any old landrovers about here, what steaming piles of **** they are.

My dad has a set, i only deal with metric now thankfully.
 

bimmer630

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,071
Anyone have kids? Seen Cars2? I laughed in the theater when Mater figured out who the bad guy was, when he found Whitworth bolts on the bomb..
 

Jim C.

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
2,598
As mentioned above, Sears/Craftsman did carry Whitworth tools. They were listed in their catalogs from about 1960 to 1962. There were four DOE wrenches, four DBE wrenches and ten sockets. The set is relatively tough to complete, but not impossible. During the same time period, Sears/Craftsman also offered a less commonly known Whitworth tap and die set. I think it's more difficult to find than the wrenches and sockets. The pages depicted below are from the 1960 Craftsman hand tools catalog.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2128.jpg
    IMG_2128.jpg
    134.6 KB · Views: 15
  • IMG_2124.jpg
    IMG_2124.jpg
    152 KB · Views: 16
  • IMG_2432.jpg
    IMG_2432.jpg
    156.4 KB · Views: 19
  • IMG_3135.jpg
    IMG_3135.jpg
    149.7 KB · Views: 17
  • IMG_3137.jpg
    IMG_3137.jpg
    155.5 KB · Views: 16

KnurledNut

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
8,117
Location
n/a
Figured I’d resurrect an old thread.
Rescued this little guy from a life of neglect:

51521646159_c3d1123134_b.jpg
 

DAustin

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
5,160
I have some Britool, Snap-on, King ****, and a few other Brands. I had a few British Cars and Bikes that were old enough to need them. My last British Triumph bike didn't need any as I remember it was all SAE. I don't know why I've kept them all these years. But I know if I sell them I'll find an old British bike or car that will need them.
 

Downwindtracker 2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,715
Location
BC
Old Japanese machinery was Whitworth. As far as wrenches and sockets, we used what fit, which was mostly SAE, except for a couple of bolts that needed 21mm. I bought a socket and a wrench just for them.

1/2" SAE, 1/2" Whitworth and 12mm bolts caused some confusion. It was not uncommon to find all them on the same machine. Depending what the jobbers over the years had made.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom