Who uses US steel?

[RickyPetite]

I couldn't help but notice that the last set of Proto tools were labeled as made in US with global materials. Since the tools are stamped USA, I assume that the majority of the item comes from US sources. Anyone know if Proto tools are made with US steel? Wright makes a point of advertising that they do.

 

[bob15]

Honestly, I don't trust proto & stanley (owners of proto) from their past....even if it was 20 years ago. that being said, I believe SK uses US steel.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...turers-agree-settle-charges-making-misleading

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/pre...ey-made-false-made-usa-claims-about-its-tools

 

[RickyPetite]

My thoughts exactly. I sent Proto an email asking for clarification but have yet to hear back.

 

[RickyPetite]

I thought of this today in comparing comparable sets of sockets from Proto and Wright. In each case, the Wright's were around the same price but contained about 2 fewer sockets (11 vs 13 for example). It got me thinking whether Proto was cheaper because of scale or whether they used imported steel. If the later is the case, then I'll pay more for Wright.

 

[FMB4]

'Labeled as made in US with global materials' most likely answers your question. That said, I've been a very long time fan and user of Plumb, Plomb, and vintage Proto tools since the early '70s (up until the 80s or so). Today anything that's Black & Decker/Stanley is on 'do not buy list'.

 

[GrantCee]

I thought of this today in comparing comparable sets of sockets from Proto and Wright. In each case, the Wright's were around the same price but contained about 2 fewer sockets (11 vs 13 for example). It got me thinking whether Proto was cheaper because of scale or whether they used imported steel. If the later is the case, then I'll pay more for Wright.

A little of both, most likely.

Proto is a large company, owned by a huge company. Wright is (to the best of my knowledge) the only family-owned manufacturer of sockets and wrenches left in the U.S. They're much smaller and don't have the economies of scale that SBD can bring to Proto. Using only US-sourced steel raises their CoGS further.

Regardless of the steel COO, I think it's worthwhile to support non-conglomerate companies. Much as I like Proto (and always have), I'd rather give the folks at Wright my money — even if it costs a little more.

 

[RickyPetite]

" I think it's worthwhile to support non-conglomerate companies."
Totally agree.

 

[kelpaso1]

What is the difference in US steel or steel from other country's? Is there really much difference and how do you tell?

 

[RickyPetite]

I will let someone else more qualified expound on the quality of US vs imported steel. My issue is merely one of truth in advertising. IMO, if "USA" is stamped on a tool, the entire tool should be made here. Being transparent in such things allows consumers to make educated choices as to what companies and products to support.

 

[JunkBonds]

I will let someone else more qualified expound on the quality of US vs imported steel. My issue is merely one of truth in advertising. IMO, if "USA" is stamped on a tool, the entire tool should be made here. Being transparent in such things allows consumers to make educated choices as to what companies and products to support.

COO being restricted to one country for manufactured items is increasingly impossible to do.

 

[RickyPetite]

I can see your point in making a car (thousands of parts), but a wrench is just steel, fabrication, plastic bag, packing popcorn and a box (the main component of which is the steel). If the steel is imported, hard to stamp USA on it with a straight face.

 

[GrantCee]

What is the difference in US steel or steel from other country's? Is there really much difference and how do you tell?

I don't think the original question goes so much to the steel quality, but about supporting US businesses — including the suppliers of raw materials.

That being said, there are really only two reasons for a company to source raw or semi-finished materials overseas. First, they can't get a specific product or quality level here; or second, they can get something acceptable at a lower cost. I'll leave it for others to speculate wildly which is the case for any given company/product.

 

[JunkBonds]

I can see your point in making a car (thousands of parts), but a wrench is just steel, fabrication, plastic bag, packing popcorn and a box (the main component of which is the steel). If the steel is imported, hard to stamp USA on it with a straight face.

Even steel. Good chance the iron ore came from Labrador and the electricity to run the furnaces from Quebec.

 

[RickyPetite]

Good point...

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I believe snap on and wright both use US steel. More than one snap on rep have told me they actually use steel from a local mill for one of their hand tool lines. I have no evidence for that though, could just be a feel good story.

 

[zendriver]

IMO, this nonsense will continue on until the problem of our selfish obsession of "coo" is completely resolved.

Everything will be made in another country.

 

[JunkBonds]

IMO, this nonsense will continue on until the problem of our selfish obsession of "coo" is completely resolved.

Everything will be made in another country.

I agree. COO is a fun patriotic relic that rightly belongs in the 1950's.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I'll keep buying USA made tools even if it's only a fun patriotic relic because it keeps American money in America that pays American workers.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I agree. COO is a fun patriotic relic that rightly belongs in the 1950's.

For me, it works only as a positive factor. While chinese made tools can be of very good and very poor quality, I have not encountered any poor quality german tools, of any sort of recent vintage. In all fairness, I'd bet after the soviets took berlin the quality of tools produced in the bombed out city was pretty low for a while. The only country I consider a straight negative is Mexico, as I have anecdotally bought a few super-****** items that were made there. Maybe there's super high quality stuff they make there, but lawn and garden tools? No thanks, screw that mexican POS rake.

IME, playing the COO game can work out very well. Few companies are willing to pay for high first world labor costs while building products that compete on price alone, which are typically low quality items. Thus, if a company is willing to pay the higher production costs, and thus have a higher selling price, they typically don't produce junk. Nobody is paying for japanese labor to build garbage. I do want to emphasize -typically-, there is garbage made in every country on earth I'm sure.

While I am certainly not one to call COO the be-all-end-all, I think it's a fair factor to consider. Buying US and first world manufactured items, helps keep them manufactured here. Which means jobs. I work a trade job, I can't be outsourced. Somebody has to have their hand on the bolt. IDK why some don't feel production jobs are worth having in the US. Companies are finding out the third world can have college degrees too....

 

[RickyPetite]

Perhaps "COO" is too simplistic in this era of globalization. Nonetheless, I choose to support as many of my fellow Americans in the products I buy and COO is the only measuring stick available to me.

 

[American Locomotive]

I can see your point in making a car (thousands of parts), but a wrench is just steel, fabrication, plastic bag, packing popcorn and a box (the main component of which is the steel). If the steel is imported, hard to stamp USA on it with a straight face.

A wrench is forged, stamped, machined, heat-treated, ground, chromed and polished.

You can make a garbage, loose-fitting, soft wrench that bends easily from the very best U.S. alloy steel if you don't do the above procedures correctly.

 

[dnschmidt]

From the root for the home team point of view I understand the question. From the scientific point of view anybody that has the technology to build a steel mill anywhere in the world knows how to make whatever grade of steel you're willing to pay for. It's not the secret formula for Cola-Cola. TOPTUL for example gets their steel from Kobe Steel in Japan. When I worked in the semiconductor industry we bought our 316L stainless steel piping for our UHP gases from Kobe Steel as they had the best electropolishing technology and surface finish. There is likely at least 1,000 miles of this tubing in Intel's factories in Chandler, AZ.

 

[JunkBonds]

I believe snap on and wright both use US steel. More than one snap on rep have told me they actually use steel from a local mill for one of their hand tool lines. I have no evidence for that though, could just be a feel good story.

Then it must be true. Salesmen never lie.

 

[Ton ton]

Channel lock tongue and Groove pliers are made from US steel. It says that right on the packaging.

 

[Skin]

What is the difference in US steel or steel from other country's? Is there really much difference and how do you tell?

They cant stamp a tool (wrench/ratchet) USA if its not made with US steel or has any significant portion of imported components in its construction (ratchet with imported guts for example). They cant even say Made in the USA with domestic and global components if its not almost entirely made with US sourced materials. If it says Assembled in the USA then all bets are off-it could be 50% US components or 5%. No way to tell without a manufacturer revealing that fact.

In terms of use I dont think there is much of a tangible benefit anymore. A lot of the steels Taiwan manufacturers are using are of very good quality and they're probably importing it from another neighboring Asian country like China or Korea. There hasnt been a hidden secret formula for ages except for the claim you can find in some tool companies marketing. A foundry will simply manufacture a steel to the spec that is ordered. The formation and heat treatment done at the tool manufacturer is probably just as important.

 

[Xcursion88]

I couldn't help but notice that the last set of Proto tools were labeled as made in US with global materials. Since the tools are stamped USA, I assume that the majority of the item comes from US sources. Anyone know if Proto tools are made with US steel? Wright makes a point of advertising that they do.

SK is 101% USA...
MFG and materials!!!

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

What is the difference in US steel or steel from other country's? Is there really much difference and how do you tell?

The steel should be the same unless the manufacturer cheaps out. And that is where any difference would be because US producers are held to specific certification standards that the rest of the world may or may not abide by. When you buy US steel, you are basically buying into a quality guarantee.

That being said, you really shouldn't panic about non-US steel. We, as a nation, have been utilizing imported steel for so long that it's everywhere. The US steel industry struggles to meet export and domestic demands. It's also a highly, highly leveraged and protected industry. If you buy tools not using US steel, the industry won't care. They are more concerned about the big fish in the construction, machine building, and manufacturing industries. I'm not saying you shouldn't care because you should do whatever makes you feel comfortable as a free person. I'm just jaded because of all the **** the steel industry has saddled the machining world with.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Then it must be true. Salesmen never lie.

Agreed, thus "feel good story". We still have a few mills around here, mostly specialty metals from what I understand. I believe the supposed mill is about 30min away, not sure what product line it is supposedly used in.

 

[Sumboodie]

I've never asked, but I'm not ordering lots of steel either. Usually just a few pieces or sheets for a specific project.

 

[kngelv]

IMO, this nonsense will continue on until the problem of our selfish obsession of "coo" is completely resolved.

Everything will be made in another country.

I agree. COO is a fun patriotic relic that rightly belongs in the 1950's.

It’s more about looking out for our neighbors. A country that can’t make it’s own stuff is not a good thing. Offshoring production has not resulted in drastically lower prices. It’s just lined the pockets of the executives.

James

 

[Kscardsfan]

What is the difference in US steel or steel from other country's? Is there really much difference and how do you tell?

If it’s from Western Europe, Japan, and some of the better mills in Mexico it’s all about the same difference. Most of the structural steel in the United States is made in mini mills/electro furnace method. I can’t speak for alloy tool steel, but I’d imagine it’s not much different than structural steel in the big picture.

 

[Xcursion88]

If it’s from Western Europe, Japan, and some of the better mills in Mexico it’s all about the same difference. Most of the structural steel in the United States is made in mini mills/electro furnace method. I can’t speak for alloy tool steel, but I’d imagine it’s not much different than structural steel in the big picture.

In layman's terms all steel is not created equally.

A little less of this...a little less of that...less refined...you can't see it until deterioration is off and running.
Cast iron...
The filtering process before hand goes a long way. Skip that and you get casted material with all sorts of **** in it. Glass...crystals... jimmy Hoffa...

 

[CS454]

My snap on wrenches feel the same as my Taiwanese ones when I smack them with a hammer.

 

[zendriver]

It’s more about looking out for our neighbors. A country that can’t make it’s own stuff is not a good thing. Offshoring production has not resulted in drastically lower prices. It’s just lined the pockets of the executives.

James

I see it a little different.

In order to to compete globally, an expensive American factory with expensive American workers, probably has to save money somewhere to remain profitable, so they might use imported materials or components, which sometimes might be all that is available.

S-K Tool was "all American". They're doing pretty well.

We're literally going out of our way to punish these companies for their decisions, by not allowing them to state "made in USA".

Not sure how that's looking out for our fellow Americans, by driving their employers overseas.

As far as our friends that work in the American steel industry - that sector is booming.

 

[lardy1]

Just to further muddy the waters I'll point out that US Steel was bought out several years ago by Arcelor-Mittal. An Indian company. Recently an American company (Cleveland Cliffs) bought out Arecelor-Mittal which returns it to US ownership. However, how many stockholders in Cleveland Cliffs live elseswhere and their profits are sent to them where they live?

It's way more complicated than it appears. And, as for most of the ore coming from Labrador? Bull puckey. I spent years hauling ship loads of ore, coal and limestone to America's steel mills and every pellet came from mines in the good old U.S. of A. I'm no expert and I can't quote percentages but I can assure you there is very little, if any, foreign iron ore used in US steel production.

 

[KnurledNut]

Guys,
I only know one, (possibly two), domestic hardline tool manufacturers that use VIRGIN steel.
What im getting at is US steel is largely recycled.
Its basically a soup mix of global steel.
So even if its melted down here and ran through the cookie cutter, in the end its still chinesium.

 

[RickyPetite]

It is frustrating how nuanced the "Made in USA" vs "Made in USA with global components" vs "Assembled in USA" labels are. My goal is to buy the best tool available, sourced as much from the USA as possible. I consider myself lucky that I am able to afford a more expensive tool if it's what I decide to buy. Considering the depth of knowledge available on GJ forums, it's illustrative that we still don't know the sourcing of Proto steel. Interesting to see if they respond to my email inquiry.

 

[pfaustus]

The filtering process before hand goes a long way. Skip that and you get casted material with all sorts of **** in it. Glass...crystals... jimmy Hoffa...

Jimmy Hoffa just added a little carbon to the metal. All good.

 

[RoundedNut]

What is the difference in US steel or steel from other country's? Is there really much difference and how do you tell?

There are many formulas for making steel and many ways of categorizing them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_grades
There are a lot of overlaps in the different standards so the equivalent grade can be obtained from many places, which is good for a robust and competitive supply chain. Steel composition and properties are easy enough to test, and everyone should be testing batches prior to use.

...
S-K Tool was "all American". They're doing pretty well.
...

That's the laugh of the day.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Keep in mind that some (I would say most) companies use recycled steel - so it may not be possible to trace the origins of the content. So they may use the "...with global materials" disclaimer just to cover their bases. The steel may be recycled, cast, forged, heat treated and tested in America, which I think still counts for something. As long as the steel meets specs, it's good. Also keep in mind that there are thousands of grades of steel, intended for various purposes.

Low quality tools from China may be made of poor steel (assuming it actually is steel and not aluminum or some other metal) with lots of impurities, or may not be properly treated at all. They are probably not as careful about the materials they source whether it's "virgin" or recycled. The latter of which could have anything in it, including lead or other toxic materials. A more reputable company may do QC and materials checking, but all of the endless Ebay/Amazon sellers with nonsensical "brand" names are very likely not doing so. Keep that in mind when shopping.

Companies that make a point to use all US steel are fine, but the actual manufacturing and finishing processes are probably more important.