Who would ever need a 12-point socket?

[jrlp]

To me, spline (or "universal") stuff is one of those "Jack of all trades, master of none" kinda tools.

If spline/universal stuff ever ends up in my toolbox, it'll be either because it was free, or I finally had something that had a spline fastener.

I picked up the cman spline sockets on black Friday a few years ago. Truthfully they work for me. I almost never use them, but when they come out they have never failed me. The 2 largest sizes get hammered on wheel lug locks and have never failed to remove one or crack the socket, even though they are 3/8 drive and I use an 18 inch tbar with them. They also work well on banjo bolts with the tbar. For the 20 I spent, I've probably earned 300 on them. They work especially well on smaller e-torx bolts

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[KinzeMech]

I knew better than to post in a 6pt vs 12pt thread, but I just couldn't help myself. Now that I'm here, I just have to ask my main question.

WHAT HELL ARE YOU ALL LIVING IN THAT YOU ARE FORCED TO CHOOSE AND CAN'T JUST HAVE BOTH? Last time I checked, almost anything was a good enough reason to double down on tools.

Why are (almost?) all impact sockets 6-point then?

All? Thumbing through my Snap On and NAPA Tool catalogs, I see about as many impact sockets listed in 12 point as in 6 point (NAPA has a slightly reduced selection of sizes in 12 pt).
I don't have a logical explanation for it, but I prefer 6 point in my impact sets.

I understand the 12pt argument, but in my own personal experience, you know stuff that actually has happened, I have witnessed 12pts round off bolts that were in rough shape that a 6 pt simply would not. Ever since I put the 12 pts away, and only bring them out for 12 pt bolts, I have had a lot less rounded off bolts at work.

I do think it's a good idea to use 6 points on damaged 6 point fasteners, but seeing as fasteners damaged to the point of rounding off are rare, I don't usually bring the 6 points out.

12 pt sockets do not fit square fasteners.

8 point is the proper socket, but 12 point does work. You just have to go oversize. The planters I work on have some 3/8 and 5/16 square headed set screws, and rather than dig the 8 point socket stringer out of the back of the "rare use tool drawer", I routinely grab the 12 pt gearwrench right off my bench. 5/16" square head takes a 3/8" 12pt and 3/8" square head takes a 7/16" 12pt. Grips really good.

 

[351-C]

12 points will fit the square end of a tap to chase threads in tight places.

 

[KinzeMech]

I forgot about that. That is very handy, especially with ratchet wrenches.

 

[03protege]

All? Thumbing through my Snap On and NAPA Tool catalogs, I see about as many impact sockets listed in 12 point as in 6 point (NAPA has a slightly reduced selection of sizes in 12 pt).
I don't have a logical explanation for it, but I prefer 6 point in my impact sets.

Having both types listed has nothing to do with how common an item is.

If I saw a polka-dotted car and a black car it would not be wise to say there are as many polka-dotted cars as their are black cars.

 

[justanengineer]

I guess my next question that probably cannot get answered is... Why would manufacturers
make triple square 12 point bolts when nearly every single 12 point socket on the planet
is Bi Hex... Some smart GJ'er must know...

Smart GJ'er who designs engines daily for a major OEM here....and contrary to what many have posted here you were very correct in your original belief, the standard 12 point wrench/socket is NOT for use with any of the 12 point fasteners I am aware of bc the geometry is slightly different. There are special 12 point sockets similar to an external torx that are supposed to be used with these which come to a rather sharp internal point (compared to the relatively round standard 12 pt socket) and provide near 100% contact with the fastener, which is the entire reason why we spec 12 pt fasteners instead of 6, for high torque applications.

 

[alpinewhite]

Smart GJ'er who designs engines daily for a major OEM here....and contrary to what many have posted here you were very correct in your original belief, the standard 12 point wrench/socket is NOT for use with any of the 12 point fasteners I am aware of bc the geometry is slightly different. There are special 12 point sockets similar to an external torx that are supposed to be used with these which come to a rather sharp internal point (compared to the relatively round standard 12 pt socket) and provide near 100% contact with the fastener, which is the entire reason why we spec 12 pt fasteners instead of 6, for high torque applications.

I guess all this talk about common 12-point sockets to be used for 12-point fasteners all went down the drain.

 

[MPOWERD]

I guess all this talk about common 12-point sockets to be used for 12-point fasteners all went down the drain.

I don't think you are understanding the information presented... 12 pt sockets fit 12 pt bolts perfectly. I use them on 12 pt bolts all the time. You just have to apply them properly...

They do also fit 6 pt nuts and bolts and are (of course) easier to mount to the 6 pt nut or bolt, but they do not apply equal pressure across the face of the 6 pt nut or bolt evenly like 6 pt sockets do...

Doesn't mean that you cant use 12 pt sockets on 6 pt bolts, it just means you need to understand the application of the 6 pt nut or bolt before deciding if its a good idea to do so...

For torquing I wouldn't recommend 12 pt sockets on 6 pt nuts or bolts. For regular use it shouldn't make that much of a difference unless excessive force needs to be applied in which case 6 pt sockets should be used...

 

[KinzeMech]

Having both types listed has nothing to do with how common an item is.
If I saw a polka-dotted car and a black car it would not be wise to say there are as many polka-dotted cars as their are black cars.

I made no statement to commonality, but if you want one, I can give you one. I can walk out of NAPA or off the truck (my two nearest tool sources) with an impact socket in 6 or 12 point in the size I need, today (or on days when the truck is here). They are both commonly available.

They are less common, but not to the point of being rare.
They are nonexistent, IF the only place you shop is HF.

 

[KinzeMech]

Smart GJ'er who designs engines daily for a major OEM here....and contrary to what many have posted here you were very correct in your original belief, the standard 12 point wrench/socket is NOT for use with any of the 12 point fasteners I am aware of bc the geometry is slightly different. There are special 12 point sockets similar to an external torx that are supposed to be used with these which come to a rather sharp internal point (compared to the relatively round standard 12 pt socket) and provide near 100% contact with the fastener, which is the entire reason why we spec 12 pt fasteners instead of 6, for high torque applications.

That is interesting. Where does one source the technically correct tool for this kind of 12 point fastener? Are they specially named/marked, or how does one discriminate between those tools and common 12 point sockets?

 

[MG44]

um 12pt sockets are for 12 pt bolts, what the hell are you designing? I think I see a big cloud of smoke being blown here.

I have never seen a marketed set of "unique/special" 12 pt sockets for 12 point fasteners. They are the same plain jane sockets you find at any store in 12 pt variety.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

12 points will fit the square end of a tap to chase threads in tight places.

Tap sockets are the correct tool for that job.

 

[351-C]

Exactly. We've all made do with our little tool kits, figuring out what we really need and why along the way. Then we add the correct tool as needed. You may have never needed a 12 point in your life, but when you do, you'll know.

 

[NathanC]

used 7/16" 12pt socket on the head bolts when rebuilding the top end of a H-D sportster today.

 

[brownbagg]

i will grab a 12 point before I will a six point just for ease of getting on the bolt

 

[deerhaven]

there are bolts all over caterpiller equipment that use 12 point

 

[skyking]

Thats like asking why anyone would have more than one screwdriver !

 

[unslow1]

I have a lot of ARP fasteners. They are mostly 12pt. I won't even grab a 6 pt unless I fear rounding a bolt/nut off.

 

[truckwrench1]

I am a diesel tech.. 12 point sockets are my first line of go to tools after a bolt head has rounded grab the very next size smaller ( if was a 10 mm grab a 3/8 12 point beat it on a usually it comes out).

 

[airbatica]

The GE CF6-80C2 jet engines we have hanging on our 767s are all 12 point. I don't like carrying extra weight around in my tool bag, so the 6 point sockets stay in my tool box. In my line of work, if I run across something that needs a 6 point to get it off then odds are fastener needs to be replaced anyways. I run into way more boogered up #2 Phillips screws than anything else.

 

[er3456df]

Smart GJ'er who designs engines daily for a major OEM here....and contrary to what many have posted here you were very correct in your original belief, the standard 12 point wrench/socket is NOT for use with any of the 12 point fasteners I am aware of bc the geometry is slightly different. There are special 12 point sockets similar to an external torx that are supposed to be used with these which come to a rather sharp internal point (compared to the relatively round standard 12 pt socket) and provide near 100% contact with the fastener, which is the entire reason why we spec 12 pt fasteners instead of 6, for high torque applications.

Are you talking about triple-square fasteners? Or something else? Is there an older 12-pt bolt standard that regular 12-pt sockets are designed for?

Bring the tech, I'd love to know more about this.

 

[er3456df]

I guess all this talk about common 12-point sockets to be used for 12-point fasteners all went down the drain.

So this means that your original point is valid, but only accidentally? Go you.

 

[bimmer630]

Just to make sure i understand what u mean, u r saying a &2 point sockets grips a 12 point nut/bolt vs a 6 point on a 12 point nut/bolt right?

a six point tool will never fit on a 12 point bolt head

 

[ganymede]

When were 12 pt fasteners invented ?

 

[Armstrong1720]

U mean bolt with twelve point head ? My dad has a tractor made around 1965 it has some 12 point bolts in the engine. Here 12 points is all we buy. Even my friend was pissin and moaning about 6 point sockets last night.