Who's got lathes?

[bts]

As a proper "A" size quick change toolpost for my mostly 3/4" or 1" tooling was beyond my reach I had given up on the idea. Then I came across four of these tool holders cheap on ebay two weeks ago.

Machined up a new post and remachined some of the holders to fit.

We will see how it goes.

 

[Kevin54]

As a proper "A" size quick change toolpost for my mostly 3/4" or 1" tooling was beyond my reach I had given up on the idea. Then I came across four of these tool holders cheap on ebay two weeks ago.

Machined up a new post and remachined some of the holders to fit.

We will see how it goes.

That's the style of holder that comes on most of the lower to mid prices lathes, and that is what mine came with that I'm trying to get away from. You wither have to buy holder specific tools for the size, or you have to shim. You don't have any up and down adjustment. I seriously hope you didn't have to pay too much for those.

 

[Nelson58]

Kevin,

What type of holder do you recommend?

Nelson

 

[Falcon67]

Yeah, that's what I figured.

Thanks.

It would have been nice to get some more holders for those other tools cheaper then what LMS is selling the holders for.

Hell, what am I saying, It's awesome just to have a lathe let alone to have the tooling package available and get extra accessories.

It's a good package for sure. The AXA-Phase II I have on my 9x20 is just barely short enough. In fact, some folks mill a little on the compound around the tool post mount to give a little more adjustment. My tool holders are right at the bottom of travel to be centered on the spindle. And I had -scratch that, got to- build and adapter to mount it.

 

[tdkkart]

That's the style of holder that comes on most of the lower to mid prices lathes, and that is what mine came with that I'm trying to get away from. You wither have to buy holder specific tools for the size, or you have to shim. You don't have any up and down adjustment. I seriously hope you didn't have to pay too much for those.

I wouldn't discount ALL 4-way toolposts based on the Chi-com pieces of ****. I've got an Enco post, from back when Enco actually made stuff(I think??), that works really well once you get past the need to shim, which really isn't a big deal once you have a handful of shim stock.
We've got a bunch of these on lathes at work, and the Clausing I picked up last fall happened to have one as well:

Even with the best of the quick change posts you give up some rigidity. This will always be the case, the further that tool is cantilevered off to the side of center the more leverage it has to flex the toolpost and compound. Not a big issue on larger lathes, but the machines us hobbie folks typically run can use all the help they can get.
There's some huge differences in the Chi-com QC posts on the market. If you're buying a Phase II set you can get by with the piston style because holders fit the post much better. Once you go to the cheaper ones, the dovetail specs are much looser and they don't fit as nicely, the wedge style posts will make up for this.

 

[Kevin54]

Kevin,

What type of holder do you recommend?

Nelson

A quick change tool holder like this one. With this style of tool post and an assortment of holders, all you have to do is raise it up or down to put it on center. If you set the stops on the holders, and you have multiple operations using different tools, you just loosen the handle, slide one off, then slide the other on. You can go from facing a part to boring the part in just a matter of seconds. Two of the better ones are Aloris and Dorian, but they are the costliest too. I bought a China brand and I should receive it this afternoon and I'll report as to what it's like. It's not the brand that I really wanted, but it's all I can afford right at the moment. Once I get a couple of doctor bills knocked out of the way, I'll pick up a better brand name, although more than likely it will be used. A new Aloris tool post with about 5 holders go for around $1500 new I'll have to keep an eye out for auctions, CL, and EvilBay for a cheaper priced one. But if you can get one for a good price, it will last a lifetime.

 

[NASTYZEN]

I wouldn't discount ALL 4-way toolposts based on the Chi-com pieces of ****. I've got an Enco post, from back when Enco actually made stuff(I think??), that works really well once you get past the need to shim, which really isn't a big deal once you have a handful of shim stock.
We've got a bunch of these on lathes at work, and the Clausing I picked up last fall happened to have one as well:

Even with the best of the quick change posts you give up some rigidity. This will always be the case, the further that tool is cantilevered off to the side of center the more leverage it has to flex the toolpost and compound. Not a big issue on larger lathes, but the machines us hobbie folks typically run can use all the help they can get.
There's some huge differences in the Chi-com QC posts on the market. If you're buying a Phase II set you can get by with the piston style because holders fit the post much better. Once you go to the cheaper ones, the dovetail specs are much looser and they don't fit as nicely, the wedge style posts will make up for this.

Thats the same one I have on my ol CVA lathe. I have shimstock en mass in a box for adjusting the tooling in it. I like that quick change style that Kevin is looking for.
One day.

 

[Bob-B]

I had one of those Enco 4 way tool posts on my 10" South Bend when I first got the lathe. It was a PITA shimming everything. I finally bought a Phase II AXA wedge style from Enco when they had a sale. It was a night and day difference, as I was used to the Aloris we had at work on a Hardinge. A few years later, I picked up a used Aloris AXA tool post on the cheap and put that on the lathe. The Phase II holders fit just fine.

 

[WILD-BILL]

It's a good package for sure. The AXA-Phase II I have on my 9x20 is just barely short enough. In fact, some folks mill a little on the compound around the tool post mount to give a little more adjustment. My tool holders are right at the bottom of travel to be centered on the spindle. And I had -scratch that, got to- build and adapter to mount it.

I have to agree it's a great starter package. I just wish it had enough holders to hold everything

Maybe I'll just add those to my christmas list this year

Have you given any thought tp machining the bottom of the tool post to gain some more height adjustment? Or maybe a combination of the milling the compound and the TP?

 

[Kevin54]

I wouldn't discount ALL 4-way toolposts based on the Chi-com pieces of ****. I've got an Enco post, from back when Enco actually made stuff(I think??), that works really well once you get past the need to shim, which really isn't a big deal once you have a handful of shim stock.
We've got a bunch of these on lathes at work, and the Clausing I picked up last fall happened to have one as well:

Even with the best of the quick change posts you give up some rigidity. This will always be the case, the further that tool is cantilevered off to the side of center the more leverage it has to flex the toolpost and compound. Not a big issue on larger lathes, but the machines us hobbie folks typically run can use all the help they can get.
There's some huge differences in the Chi-com QC posts on the market. If you're buying a Phase II set you can get by with the piston style because holders fit the post much better. Once you go to the cheaper ones, the dovetail specs are much looser and they don't fit as nicely, the wedge style posts will make up for this.

I don't think rigidity is given up. I've done some heavy hogging with quick change post. And I don't like to shim something. With a quick change, you can make a face cut, see where you're at, and the second change you're on center. I also use a variety of different size of tools and different shapes, so a quick change is way more useful for me.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Makin holes on the new (old) Gisholt! It's a beast!

 

[vegar]

I have an old TOS SN45 from 1964

A couple of pics from the day I picked it up. Green and very dirty

A pic of a not so dirty lathe in its final position

The lathe is really to big (is that possible??) and I have not connected it yet. I also have almost no tools for it, so are searching around.

 

[EOC_Jason]

The lathe is really to big (is that possible??) and I have not connected it yet. I also have almost no tools for it, so are searching around.

No such thing as too big, but definitely a such thing as too small...

 

[Kevin54]

I received my new tool post and holders yesterday, The bottom plate on the tool post had to be machined down to fit the compound on the lathe. I got that done and got it mounted. I have to say, that for $89 I'm fairly impressed for China stuff.

Occupant....the thing you mentioned about the height adjustment screws...that was the very first thing I looked at. They all appear to be straight, although they feel a little bit "grainy" from the Black Oxide finish on them. Hopefully they will smooth out after a while. But then again, probably by the time they smooth out, they'll be wore out.

I was going up to a scrap metal place today and pick up some material, but I was halfway there this morning and it was ******* and pouring rain so hard I said to heck with it and came back home. It's supposed to be half way decent tomorrow so I may run up in the morning. I need some stock just to practice with believe it or not. Yesterday was the first that I have ran a machine in almost a year and a half. And running a non-CNC is a little different due to the fact that the last 13 years I either ran two axis Bridgeports or three axis Prototraks. Cranking a handle for everything seems a little different. Especially since I can only do it with one arm. I felt like I walked a mile just between two handles. But I got the plate machined down to fit the lathe and everything looks good. I have a larger cutter in it and I still have a little bit of movement to move the toolholder down if need be. If I run a smaller cutter, then Ii will have all kinds of room. I was surprised though that the BXA holder is almost the size of the compound as far as the width, but it will work out fine. I have found out though that some of my tooling that was in my box is gone. I had some other items missing, but every time I get in there to find something I find something else gone. Oh well, I believe in Karma and whoever pilfered, Karma will bite them in the *** someday.

I'll snap some pics but I don't know if I can post them from this garage computer. I may have to wait and post them tonight.

 

[Spencyg]

No such thing as too big, but definitely a such thing as too small...

With lathes, they can be too big. Tooling alone for anything larger than maybe a 14" swing can double or triple the cost of your investment. Even changing chucks when you're talking about a 150+lb 4 jaw can be a challenge. And with a huge lathe, it is more difficult to play around with smaller pieces because most of the chucks don't close down small enough. Then, you've got 5+hp behind a spindle which makes any beginner errors very expensive and potentially very very dangerous. Obviously they make large lathes for a reason....some projects need large turning capacity, but for a garage shop anything larger than a 14x40 IMO is pointless. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've truly needed anything larger than a 12" swing and a 1.5" pass-thru.

 

[magnusk750]

With lathes, they can be too big. Tooling alone for anything larger than maybe a 14" swing can double or triple the cost of your investment. Even changing chucks when you're talking about a 150+lb 4 jaw can be a challenge. And with a huge lathe, it is more difficult to play around with smaller pieces because most of the chucks don't close down small enough. Then, you've got 5+hp behind a spindle which makes any beginner errors very expensive and potentially very very dangerous. Obviously they make large lathes for a reason....some projects need large turning capacity, but for a garage shop anything larger than a 14x40 IMO is pointless. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've truly needed anything larger than a 12" swing and a 1.5" pass-thru.

x2. The 'bigger is always better' thing is too often quite crude.

 

[vegar]

For sure. Mine has a capacity of 355 mm dia and 2,5 m lenght. But it was free, so it gone stay. I am not moving it any more, thats for sure

 

[Torque1st]

With lathes, they can be too big. Tooling alone for anything larger than maybe a 14" swing can double or triple the cost of your investment. Even changing chucks when you're talking about a 150+lb 4 jaw can be a challenge. And with a huge lathe, it is more difficult to play around with smaller pieces because most of the chucks don't close down small enough. Then, you've got 5+hp behind a spindle which makes any beginner errors very expensive and potentially very very dangerous. Obviously they make large lathes for a reason....some projects need large turning capacity, but for a garage shop anything larger than a 14x40 IMO is pointless. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've truly needed anything larger than a 12" swing and a 1.5" pass-thru.

x2. The 'bigger is always better' thing is too often quite crude.

To each his own on that. I bought mine specifically for the ability to handle some of the parts I wanted to work on. Small parts are not a priority. I don't mess with small model parts, firearms, or anything so small does not matter to me. I can always chuck up a 4" chuck in my machine or make an adapter.

Mistakes can be expensive or deadly with any size machine.

I have a hoist for large parts.

 

[pugs]

Monarch 18 CBB, 20.5" swing 72" between centers. I have small chucks for small work

 

[lametec]

Downside to "too big" is usually lack of spindle RPM. Like my 15"x48", it tops out at 1200 rpm.

 

[Steve from Socal]

Downside to "too big" is usually lack of spindle RPM. Like my 15"x48", it tops out at 1200 rpm.

Usually; not always, my Monarch 2013 model 62 has a 1750 top speed.

Steve

 

[jduncan459]

I brought this 13" 6foot bed Southbend home this past week. Found it on Craigslist at an old tech school. It was made in 1974 and is in pretty good shape. Runs quiet. I have some adjusting or repair to do to the cross slide. I have been using a Sherline mini lathe for about six years so this is a step up!

It came with a faceplate and dog, some cutting bits and a honking 10inch 4 jaw which I know now fits a 14in SB. I just have to conjure 3 phase from my single phase and I get to play.

The guy begged me to take this:

A 1948 Bridgeport Round Ram mill with some collets. He was going to haul it off for scrap. It's well used but I am going to try to fix it up. For what I do it will be fine. I ended up giving him scrap price for it.

 

[Kevin54]

I brought this 13" 6foot bed Southbend home this past week. Found it on Craigslist at an old tech school. It was made in 1974 and is in pretty good shape. Runs quiet. I have some adjusting or repair to do to the cross slide. I have been using a Sherline mini lathe for about six years so this is a step up!

It came with a faceplate and dog, some cutting bits and a honking 10inch 4 jaw which I know now fits a 14in SB. I just have to conjure 3 phase from my single phase and I get to play.

The guy begged me to take this:

A 1948 Bridgeport Round Ram mill with some collets. He was going to haul it off for scrap. It's well used but I am going to try to fix it up. For what I do it will be fine. I ended up giving him scrap price for it.

As far as the mill goes, paying only scrap price for it.....You ****!!!! Depending on what you gave for the lathe depends on whether you deserve another one or not.

Make sure you start a thread on fixing up the old Bridgeport. I'm hoping that you are going to go all over it and go as far as a repaint.

I'm not sure about the older lathes, but I know that when I bought my JET lathe, I was reading somewhere that for a lathe, they recommend a Rotary Phase Converter and not to use a Static Phase Converter. Don't ask me why as I'd have to find the article again.

 

[Hroger]

For the lathe I would go with a VFD. That way you can have control of the RPM without having to change anything else. It is super easy to get a 230v line to output 3 phase, not to mention they are way quieter than a rotary converter. I went this route with my mill and love it. Next summer I'm converting my lathe to 3 phase.

 

[trbomax]

Just curious,what is scrap $ for a BP ? Ive got a south bend similar to that but bigger.I'm in the process of cleaning the storage cosmoline and grease off my equipment and moveing into the new machine room. All my mills and lathes have been stored since early 2006 so they are pretty nasty. I got the HF one cleaned up yesterday and am going to move it in the shop today. Its brand new,never run even though its 7 yrs old!

 

[jduncan459]

Well, scrap price for the mill was $250. I intend to go through it and it's already partially disassembled. It has the M2 taper, not the other odd one. I do like to obsess on photos (apollosaturn.smugmug.com) so no doubt there will be an expose'.

I gave $1K for the lathe. It's hard to get a feel for what's a "you ****" on lathes since they are so subjective. I thought I did good anyway.

 

[trbomax]

Well, scrap price for the mill was $250. I intend to go through it and it's already partially disassembled. It has the M2 taper, not the other odd one. I do like to obsess on photos (smugmug.apollosaturn.com) so no doubt there will be an expose'.

I gave $1K for the lathe. It's hard to get a feel for what's a "you ****" on lathes since they are so subjective. I thought I did good anyway.

Was just curious. ive got a bp like that but older pre ww2. I did a complete disasemble and refit on it around 1995. Its got sentimental value as it originally was in my dads shop.Its still in ohio at the old place.It will be the last piece to get moved up , mostly because it doesnt need any work.

 

[WILD-BILL]

Well, scrap price for the mill was $250. I intend to go through it and it's already partially disassembled. It has the M2 taper, not the other odd one. I do like to obsess on photos (smugmug.apollosaturn.com) so no doubt there will be an expose'.

I gave $1K for the lathe. It's hard to get a feel for what's a "you ****" on lathes since they are so subjective. I thought I did good anyway.

Sir, you definatly ****.

 

[jduncan459]

Here's the shop boss polishing the lathe ways....

 

[Kevin54]

Well, scrap price for the mill was $250. I intend to go through it and it's already partially disassembled. It has the M2 taper, not the other odd one. I do like to obsess on photos (smugmug.apollosaturn.com) so no doubt there will be an expose'.

I gave $1K for the lathe. It's hard to get a feel for what's a "you ****" on lathes since they are so subjective. I thought I did good anyway.

Sir, you definatly ****.

Yep. I agree with Wild Bill. You ****!!!! For a lathe that size around here, you're looking at maybe $3000. $250 for a Bridgeport, yep, a "you ****" for sure. If the head runs and you didn't do anything else, you'd double your money on the head alone.

I turned down a Bridgeport round ram a month or so ago with a Phase Converter for $1300. It was a nice tight BP but was in bad need of paint, and the power feed didn't work. I bought a real nice Lagun off of the same guy with no power feed, WITH digital readout, and with a Rotary Phase Converter for $2300, plus $200 to get it wired up, and $150 to have it unloaded from a trailer and set in my garage.

Lathes aren't easy to find around here that are in any shape at all. I've seen them go for $3000+ and they looked to be older than dirt and just plain nasty. So I ended up going the Chinese route and bought a 13" x 40" JET for $5000.

If you have to put a couple of grand to get the machines where you want them as far as looks and condition, you still would get a "you ****". The next piece of equipment I would like to get is a surface grinder. They come up for sale every once in awhile, but they're a piece of equipment that you really need to know what you're looking at. Grinding dust can really wreak havoc on a piece of machinery. At work, we had a real decent Boyer/Shultz that the table started getting a little tight. The screw for the "Y" axis was so worn that the threads were razor sharp on the edges. It's one of those cases where the One Shot lube system actually was a cause of the problems. It had no proper vacuum system on it and the grinder was not a wet grinder so any dust was just flying around, then by people brushing it off and blowing it off with an air hose let the grinder dust attract itself to everything that was oiled. For years it had built up on the threads of the screw and actually ground the screw itself down to razor sharp.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Yep. I agree with Wild Bill. You ****!!!! For a lathe that size around here, you're looking at maybe $3000. $250 for a Bridgeport, yep, a "you ****" for sure. If the head runs and you didn't do anything else, you'd double your money on the head alone.

I turned down a Bridgeport round ram a month or so ago with a Phase Converter for $1300. It was a nice tight BP but was in bad need of paint, and the power feed didn't work. I bought a real nice Lagun off of the same guy with no power feed, WITH digital readout, and with a Rotary Phase Converter for $2300, plus $200 to get it wired up, and $150 to have it unloaded from a trailer and set in my garage.

Lathes aren't easy to find around here that are in any shape at all. I've seen them go for $3000+ and they looked to be older than dirt and just plain nasty. So I ended up going the Chinese route and bought a 13" x 40" JET for $5000.

If you have to put a couple of grand to get the machines where you want them as far as looks and condition, you still would get a "you ****". The next piece of equipment I would like to get is a surface grinder. They come up for sale every once in awhile, but they're a piece of equipment that you really need to know what you're looking at. Grinding dust can really wreak havoc on a piece of machinery. At work, we had a real decent Boyer/Shultz that the table started getting a little tight. The screw for the "Y" axis was so worn that the threads were razor sharp on the edges. It's one of those cases where the One Shot lube system actually was a cause of the problems. It had no proper vacuum system on it and the grinder was not a wet grinder so any dust was just flying around, then by people brushing it off and blowing it off with an air hose let the grinder dust attract itself to everything that was oiled. For years it had built up on the threads of the screw and actually ground the screw itself down to razor sharp.

I know the feeling. I went to look at a bridgeport a local engine builder was selling. He wanted $5000 and not a penny less. Lathes are the same, just can't seem to find any decent machines that guys are willing to let go for a reasonable cost.

My father in law is bringing me a 6x18" manual surface grinder that is not running at the moment, I'm hoping it doesn't turn out to be a total dud.

It's amazing how much damage that grinder dust can do. The last mould making shop I worked at didn't have exhausts fans on the grinders and you had to be careful what else you had on the surface plates near the grinders. We used to hassle other guys that were ******* us off, threatening to put grinder dust in their engine oil, or mould polishing compound.

 

[jduncan459]

Thanks guys, it's nice to try not to feel guilty about a purchase!

Lathes are all that common down here in the South so I had to jump on it.

The power feed on the BP turns but won't move the slide so there is an issue of some kind. It's 3 phase too.

A friend was telling me to go buy a 3 phase motor and some capacitors and run it off of that but it sounds like voodoo. Heard of that method?

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Thanks guys, it's nice to try not to feel guilty about a purchase!

Lathes are all that common down here in the South so I had to jump on it.

The power feed on the BP turns but won't move the slide so there is an issue of some kind. It's 3 phase too.

A friend was telling me to go buy a 3 phase motor and some capacitors and run it off of that but it sounds like voodoo. Heard of that method?

Yes, do a search for rotary phase converter. You can build them using a 3 phase motor.

 

[Torque1st]

Thanks guys, it's nice to try not to feel guilty about a purchase!

Lathes are all that common down here in the South so I had to jump on it.

The power feed on the BP turns but won't move the slide so there is an issue of some kind. It's 3 phase too.

A friend was telling me to go buy a 3 phase motor and some capacitors and run it off of that but it sounds like voodoo. Heard of that method?

The 3phase motor and caps is called a Rotary Phase Converter or RPC for short. Definitely not voodoo. Depending on the HP of your lathe motor you could go with a VFD but a VFD will only drive ONE motor. A RPC will drive several 3Phase motors.

You sir get a TRIPLE You **** for your purchase.

 

[jduncan459]

My lathe has a 2hp motor. The mill has two 1/2hp motors. I doubt I'd ever run them both at the same time so I am going to use a pig tail on both so I can only have one hooked up at once.

Now I am off to search for the voodoo!

 

[Kevin54]

My lathe has a 2hp motor. The mill has two 1/2hp motors. I doubt I'd ever run them both at the same time so I am going to use a pig tail on both so I can only have one hooked up at once.

Now I am off to search for the voodoo!

Again, I don't know everything, heck anything about Phase Converters, but I was told that you can run as many machines as you want off of one converter as long as when the machines are running do not exceed the horsepower of the phase converter. So if you have a 2 hp mill and another 2 hp mill, you couldn't run both of them at the same time if you had a 3hp phase converter. You could only run one at a time. But if you had a 4 hp converter you could run both at the same time. Clear as mud?

My Lagun mill is 2 hp and I have a 3 hp phase converter so I'm safe. My lathe is 220 single phase. So I have no problems.

 

[Torque1st]

Call a RPC manufacturer and talk to their tech department about your application. They can guide you about what size you need and how to hook it up.

 

[930dreamer]

WOW, great finds. VFD's are reasonable up to 3 hp, then the price goes way up. Look on You Tube for mill/lathe running on VFD's. Rotary converter is a fairly easy build. How come I can't find these deals close to me?

P.S.
You ****

 

[trbomax]

Thanks guys, it's nice to try not to feel guilty about a purchase!

Lathes are all that common down here in the South so I had to jump on it.

The power feed on the BP turns but won't move the slide so there is an issue of some kind. It's 3 phase too.

A friend was telling me to go buy a 3 phase motor and some capacitors and run it off of that but it sounds like voodoo. Heard of that method?

I got mine moved into position today,so tomorrow I can start cleaning up the south bend.I looked at it today and I think maybe its smaller than yours.Its 13 x 36 and it looks identical except for the motor switch setup.I'll shoot some pics tomorrow during the clean-up.

On the mill,unbolt the power unit on the table,there are 4 3/8" screws holding it on. When it slides off the shaft there should be 2 very small woodruf keys that drive the table screw. Check those or maybe the drive gear is stripped.

 

[jduncan459]

Will do.