Who's got lathes?

[John in OH]

I grew up in a time, long before the throw away generation, where we bought the best high quality American made stuff we could afford and fixed it when it broke. I so miss that concept that was once part of American culture.

My Dad, now long past, used to quote the old phrase from his youth during the Depression:

"Use it up,
Wear it out,
Make it do,
Or do without!

 

[930dreamer]

Looking at a 1942 Monarch 10ee 1250 miles from me. My life would probably be easier if I just let it go but.....

 

[John in OH]

Looking at a 1942 Monarch 10ee 1250 miles from me. My life would probably be easier if I just let it go but.....

Sweet lathes ... but tread carefully!! Those old variable speed 10ee drives can eat your lunch.

 

[930dreamer]

I've talked to the seller and I know it doesn't currently operate. So this would be a project.

looking at this Bradford 15x30 on CL for $3100, its a long way away also.

 

[John in OH]

I've talked to the seller and I know it doesn't currently operate. So this would be a project.

looking at this Bradford 15x30 on CL for $3100, its a long way away also.

I don't know any specifics regarding the drive system on the 10ee, but its my understanding the variable drive system is full of obsolete parts, vacuum tubes, mystery components, etc. all of which are either now unobtainable or outrageously expensive.

That Bradford looks pretty nice!!

 

[Steve from Socal]

I don't know any specifics regarding the drive system on the 10ee, but its my understanding the variable drive system is full of obsolete parts, vacuum tubes, mystery components, etc. all of which are either now unobtainable or outrageously expensive.

That Bradford looks pretty nice!!

I have to reply to this,

The Monarch 10EE is an enigma to most, there are several different drives and, good to superb support for most. Tubes and old switch gear are available as well as modern replacements at reasonable prices. The only issue is, you have to be willing to do the work/trouble shoot yourself.

From rewinding motor/generators to installing new off the shelf solid state DC drives and, repowering with an AC motor and inverter. There are solutions to nearly any issues with a 10EE drive. More and more DC drives are being repaired or updated instead of replacing the motor, a DC machine tool motor has many advantages. AC drives and motors are getting better but, the DC motors Monarch used are really top notch, with power and torque ranges AC drives can't match. Monarch uses a much larger AC motor in machines the sell today.

I am not singling out John, just using his comments as a common chant about the mysterious vacuum tube lathes. The tubes by the way can last 40 plus years in daily use. Yes there was a time period when the old fixers retired/died off and, new blood figured out the mysteries of Monarch, today there are many who learned that it ain't rocket science to keep one running.

Steve

 

[John in OH]

I have to reply to this,

The Monarch 10EE is an enigma to most, there are several different drives and, good to superb support for most. Tubes and old switch gear are available as well as modern replacements at reasonable prices. The only issue is, you have to be willing to do the work/trouble shoot yourself.

........

I am not singling out John, just using his comments as a common chant about the mysterious vacuum tube lathes. The tubes by the way can last 40 plus years in daily use. Yes there was a time period when the old fixers retired/died off and, new blood figured out the mysteries of Monarch, today there are many who learned that it ain't rocket science to keep one running.

Steve

Steve, no offense taken. As I said, I don't really know much about the topic other than anecdotal stories I have heard. Not surprised to hear that new solutions may now be available to getting these old drives running. If one can do it, then, by golly, more power to you!! It would be wonderful if the 10ee lathes could be readily brought back into service!

 

[matt_i]

My .02 is that the only thing that really hurts VFD conversions on an EE is the fact that the original DC motor had a very custom end-bell and the back-gearbox is mounted directly to that. So its not trivial to just locate a 56C-face motor and slap the back gearbox onto it. People eliminate the back gear and mount the double groove sheave directly to the motor and go with the "open belt" setup. While that works just fine for general light duty turning if you're going to chase threads its undesirable.

Also (my opinion here) is a percentage of people go lazy and put a little box with a tachometer and/or potientiometer somewhere to adjust the speed rather than adapting the requisite ratio to the original chromed knob on the left side. The designers and manufacturers put huge effort into making the lathe with masterful clean flowing castings and a wonky box sticking out like a sore thumb doesn't mesh well with that intent.

I have one with original module DC drive that hopefully will last my lifetime and and another VFD conversion which addresses the shortcomings above that's my Dad's. They are fantastic machines capable of turning anything accurately and with superb ergonomics for any project that can fit in their work envelope.

 

[Steve from Socal]

Matt,

While I agree that VFD conversions are OK, I can say that my 10EE with a DC drive is much more responsive than my 13EE with a 15HP VFD and inverter rated motor. The DC guru's on PM have pretty much solved all the issues with either repairing a tube drive or installing a new DC drive with field weakening at the right voltage.

Most people don't need a 10EE to do the work they do, however, once you use one the darn thing spoils you. I like my 13EE and my series 62 2013 but, the 10EE is my go to lathe for anything that fits. As you mentioned it has ergonomics that are hard to beat.

Steve

 

[Aberdale]

I have a 10EE that I bought about 20 years ago from a tool and die shop going out of business in Detroit. It required some light cleanup, and resealing a couple of the sight glasses, but otherwise has been trouble free. The serial number plate says the lathe was built in 1942.

The only thing that is not original is that an external oil pump was added to lubricate the spindle bearing because the tachometer drive gear is bad, and the tachometer drive originally provided lubrication to the spindle.

It's a very nice lathe. I should probably clean it up and repaint it someday.

 

[mindheavy]

looking at this Bradford 15x30 on CL for $3100, its a long way away also.

I've got a 12" Bradford. Looks like that one has an extra control that mine lacks, not certain of it's function. Mine was bought and soon after moved temporarily to storage while we relocate to another town. Can't wait to get it up and running.

There isn't a ton of info out there on the Bradford's but they seem like quality machines. I was able to run mine before I bought it. Here are a few specs on the 12" MetalMaster if you're interested:

 

[overkill19]

I bought this Hardinge TL today. I’ll bring it home next week.
This will be my first lathe... should be fun to learn on.



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[darkzero]

Congrats again!

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

I bought this Hardinge TL today. I’ll bring it home next week.
This will be my first lathe... should be fun to learn on.
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Those TL's are very nice tool room lathes. Not that many turn up that don't have heavy wear in the beds. The back gears are prone to having missing teeth as well. A lot of handy features like reverse to lead screw and a lever to withdraw the tool while threading. Micrometer stops on the carriage as well. Hard to beat for a small lathe and it looks like you have a fair amount of tooling for it. Ed.

 

[overkill19]

Those TL's are very nice tool room lathes. Not that many turn up that don't have heavy wear in the beds. The back gears are prone to having missing teeth as well. A lot of handy features like reverse to lead screw and a lever to withdraw the tool while threading. Micrometer stops on the carriage as well. Hard to beat for a small lathe and it looks like you have a fair amount of tooling for it. Ed.

This is the version just before the HLVH , it has hardened bed ways, and back gear is new.
If I understand correctly it has all the same features as a hlvh , just smaller.


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[wrenchguy]

My number 2 grandson, "Rusty LeBlond"

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

This is the version just before the HLVH , it has hardened bed ways, and back gear is new.
If I understand correctly it has all the same features as a hlvh , just smaller.


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The TL's do have a lot of the same features as the later HLVH but significantly different as well. Mine is from 42' and one of my favorite lathes. It took me quite a while to power it up as the 3 phase two speed motor is 480v with no provision for 240v and I had to add a step up transformer to my phase perfect to power it. I have a Hardinge BB4 to keep it company from the early 40's also. Excellent small lathes. Ed. (Also way to break in that young LeBlond operator wrenchguy...nothing like having an eager apprentice around.)

 

[overkill19]

Sorry ! I meant to type “ a lot of “ not “all” the same features..... my fat fi guts spell check !


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[Short Round]

Whatever you do DON'T buy any used lathe until you read up on how to evaluate a used lathe and you PERSONALLY inspect it!! Otherwise, you might end up with a boat anchor!

Yep, don’t get suckered by fresh paint jobs.

There is a guy in the next county that always has a lathe or two for sale. His modus operandi is buy clapped out machines, scrub and paint, price at $2k. No tooling.

 

[ez-duzit]

R--it's pretty simple to modify one of these to make it fit. And Logan sells new ones.

For my 12" Logan I looked for a long time, trying to find a used one. Then I came across an eBay auction for both a steady rest and follower rest for an imported 13" lathe. Paid around $150 for both and modified the steady to precisely fit my lathe. Haven't yet mounted the follower, which requires tapping my carriage.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Generic Taiwanese, (BusyBee same as Grizzly ) DF1224g. I have no idea who DF is. It's a good lathe, hardened bed ways, belt drive, back geared.

My son went to an auction and they had a Boxford for sale. He went on his phone and discovered they were a more modern South bend copy. Here a resource for machine tools
http://www.lathes.co.uk/

 

[larry_g]

Logan lathe original steady rest for 11 inch Logan model 1957.

I am trying to find a good original ELEVEN 11" Logan steady rest. I have a 1957 model number Logan lathe. Guy just sent me one that is for a 10 inch and not for an 11 - they are NOT the same. PLEASE someone sell me the right one for an 11 inch. It will measure 5 9/16" from the flat to the center line of the steady rest and the Logan part number is AC-290. PLEASE!

I'm digging into old memories, so don't quote me. When I was searching for a Logan steady years ago I discovered that they also come in different bed widths. So I'd suggest that you measure from the center of the V to the other side, and the width of the steps where the clamp goes under the bed. That should get you closer to the correct part.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[86turbodsl]

I FINALLY get to post my lathe here. Many years waiting for the right one, my baby came home yesterday.

Here she is in all her WW2 / 1943 Glory:

 

[mindheavy]

Nice Pacemaker! They're some of the finer machines as I understand it. How does she run?

 

[firebirdparts]

That is a BAL. For home anyway.

 

[86turbodsl]

Not under power yet. Headstock checked out, apron needs some work. But for $450 I couldn't complain.

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[matt_i]

American Pacer! Heavy heavy stuff! Outstanding work there Mr Turbodsl

Am I counting 5 v-belts between motor and input shaft? 15hp is my guess although I've seen a 25hp powering a super long one before in the back of an aircraft museum

 

[86turbodsl]

Thanks Matt! Yes, you count 5 belts. Atw says 10hp though. Guess they didn't want any slippage. I'm so excited about this lathe. Haven't seen anything negative about them yet.



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[930dreamer]

Spotted this on FB, $6000.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

You guys are posting up some very stout iron. Turbods new Pacemaker and a fully tooled Monarch? on FB Texas. Real deal stuff there.

I just finished a couple month project on this little 1942 Hardinge TL. I've had it for years but was missing most of the original drive until recently a DV59 came up on CL being parted out. With that very similar drive in hand the lathe got a much needed face lift. Quite a few pics of the project here in the vintage section. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433268 Here are a few before and after pics. All controls and functions work like they should now. Ed.

 

[86turbodsl]

Spotted this on FB, $6000.

Whoa. That's probably half the price in the midwest. Are lathes really that rare down there?

 

[zmotorsports]

You guys are posting up some very stout iron. Turbods new Pacemaker and a fully tooled Monarch? on FB Texas. Real deal stuff there.

I just finished a couple month project on this little 1942 Hardinge TL. I've had it for years but was missing most of the original drive until recently a DV59 came up on CL being parted out. With that very similar drive in hand the lathe got a much needed face lift. Quite a few pics of the project here in the vintage section. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433268 Here are a few before and after pics. All controls and functions work like they should now. Ed.

Beautiful. I love Hardinge lathes.

 

[Falcon67]

Whoa. That's probably half the price in the midwest. Are lathes really that rare down there?

Little ones are. I bought my 12x36 Enco after looking for over a year for something similar and not beat up. Big stuff usually easy to find thanks to oil field work. Usually way, way big stuff. That 6K seems rather optimistic to what I've seen in the past. Usually not even good used B-port mills get to that high here. However, I've also seen "$3K" B-ports that have been sitting outside for a few years.

 

[86turbodsl]

I saw a monarch like that around here recently listed at 800.

Bridgeports are super common here. I got mine for 400. Most people seem to think they're worth 2k however.

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[Falcon67]

Yea, if I ever got serious about replacing my square column mill with a B-port, I'd likely end up hitching up the flat bed trailer and heading NW from here. Small machine shops started drying up way many years ago in the late 80s. I worked for a company that used a lot of small machined parts and in the early 90s it got real tough to find people to make those parts. Couple of places in Dallas, one guy across from one of Bo Pilgrim's chicken farms in Arkansas and some shops in the Chicago area, Milwaukee and such. Most shops in Houston were focused on oil patch if they had a lathe. One of our PCB board stuffer/suppliers even had a drill pipe sized lathe and other machines in a back area for bidding on patch jobs.

 

[86turbodsl]

Find me rust free car/truck parts and i'll find you all the machine tools you want. Ha!

 

[930dreamer]

The SW is the perfect location for rust free everything.

 

[MushCreek]

Sounds like a deal. Cars and trucks last pretty well here in the south, but machine tools are big bucks. This area is booming in manufacturing, so machine tools bring pretty good money. I never even get a bid in at the local auctions. I paid $2K for my old but very tight B'Port step pulley with a DRO. Best deal I saw in several years of looking. We have dreamers here who ask big bucks for ancient iron, but I doubt they get anywhere near what they're asking. To me, an old lathe with a threaded spindle isn't worth much compared to a more modern L or D type mount. I had the chuck unscrew once on my old LeBlond; that was interesting. That's one of the things I dislike about my Summit; it's an oddball 3X56 mm threaded spindle. Can't find tooling anywhere. I keep looking for something newer, or at least more common, but not willing to pay the price.

 

[Jayhawk_Aviator]

I would snap up a $400 Bridgeport if it ever came available. Let me know If you find any more

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I FINALLY get to post my lathe here. Many years waiting for the right one, my baby came home yesterday.

Here she is in all her WW2 / 1943 Glory:

Man I'm jealous. A pacemaker will be on the want list for a long time. Looks like a 16"? Perfect size for serious work in a home shop.

That Monarch is gorgeous as well. Price is a bit steep, but that looks like my favorite configuration.