Why are American's tool boxes so big?

[SASORacing]

Very nice shop, and camera there.

 

[cowboy73]

I don't have one large tool box, just 5 smaller ones!

 

[Jarhead0408]

I will say this, those foreign shops are the cleanest shops I have ever seen.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

The real reason is because of the Snap On and Mac Tools trucks that hit all the shops. Mechanics can get everything they want by paying a little each month. Most mechanics are tool junkies anyway and the pay as you go system is like feeding an addict.

No doubt that IS a factor. My tool box would be probably be vastly different if I had to spend my off time shopping for it and hauling it in to the shop.
A few minutes on the tool truck shopping when the driver stops by and then having a freight truck deliver it makes it pretty easy to go bigger on the box.

 

[rancherbill]

I see two reasons, first people leave their stuff in those plastic insert trays. They take up a huge amount of room. Get rid of the trays and I know stuff would take 1/3 the room.

The average general mechanic could work out of a tool cart and a locker to store the specific kits they have.

I saw the 'core tool kit' requirement for a Kenworth dealer recently. It would all fit in a decent cart or smaller tool box. The rest of the stuff would fit in a cabinet to get out when needed.

 

[2oolhound]

Nice photos Blöckw@rt! It makes me wonder though, are the tool boxes organized to the job? Suspension goes to bay 1 with box 1 with Joe Specialist; Differential goes to bay 2 with box 2 with Peter Specialist; Trans re & re goes to bay 3 box 3 with Jon Specialist etc. Different boxes can be wheeled in for those jobs that over lap.

Not only are the shops clean the techs are too! or were these photos shot on a movie set?

 

[creativecars]

I see two reasons, first people leave their stuff in those plastic insert trays. They take up a huge amount of room. Get rid of the trays and I know stuff would take 1/3 the room.

The average general mechanic could work out of a tool cart and a locker to store the specific kits they have.

I saw the 'core tool kit' requirement for a Kenworth dealer recently. It would all fit in a decent cart or smaller tool box. The rest of the stuff would fit in a cabinet to get out when needed.

What do you mean??? You KNOW that if one wrench touches another you will have to replace the whole set!! And maybe double it.
I do think there are some good looking organizers shown on the GJ, but they take up a lot of room. Can most boxes be consolidated if necessary? yep.
But if you have the room and the money, then by all means, make the tool truck man rich.

Or maybe it's the 'small man syndrome'

 

[Fretters]

Sorry Fretters I couldn't resist Cheers.

Pete

I'd have done the same.

I bet those workmen were cursing when they saw that. Could just imagine them parking up and leaving plenty of space so they could unload, only to find some sod had shoved that in the small gap behind the van.

 

[Carla]

Because I can
Muhahahahha
Seriously, I'm a one man shop and a tool addict. If it makes work faster, cleaner, better I buy it. This box is a trade in; it's wonderful having so much room to find stuff.
I had a guy subbing in for me; drove him nuts. Everything is grouped by job not type.

That looks like a really excellent example of a serious professional automotive work area, in which the great multitude of tooling which 'may' be needed for any job which arrives is 'ready to hand'.

At a guess, it looks like a successful independent shop, in which one never knows just what make/model of vehicle will be next, or what its ailment may be.

This area would appear to be a 'diagnosis and light repair' bay, in which one can readily handle the great variety of electrical and fuel system problems, the most 'usual' or 'common' problems with vehicles.

People who have never done this work really won't begin to realise the sheer number of tools and test equipment one must have to do this class of work as quickly and easily as one may do it, yet do it correctly, to provide the class of good service for which one's clients will pay well.

I can tell you from first-hand experience (albeit on the simpler vehicles of forty-ish years ago) , that the so-called Taylorism' concept, applied to the motor trade, makes good sense, both from the stand-point of doing one's work quickly and well, and of reducing fatigue.

In that large number of drawers may be found some items of tooling and supplies which may be used only once or twice in a year's time, yet they are 'ready to hand' when needed.

Note the idea of tooling 'grouped by job'. This is a 'time-saver', and, from that, a fatigue-saver. 'Practical convenience' reduces lost time, and needless lost time on a job is time which can't ever be recovered.

There is also a very serious factor of morale.

A 'happy' mechanic is an efficient mechanic, proud of his/her skills and knowledge, who does good work, and so earns respect from his/her clientele.

(clients who respect one's honest work are much less likely to complain about one's honest billing for their work....but one must 'earn' such respect, and its 'not easy'..........sadly, the motor trade attracts far too many wrong-doers, and new clients are rightfully wary.)

Having the 'right tool for the job' ready to hand, when needed, justifies the significant first-cost expense for however many tool-chests or bench drawers may be needed.

cheers

Carla

 

[cheechi]

No doubt that IS a factor. My tool box would be probably be vastly different if I had to spend my off time shopping for it and hauling it in to the shop.

I promise you it wouldn't. I spend my off time shopping for tools and hauling them (and their storage) into my garage.

I think one thing that was hit on earlier, organizing tools by job instead of by type is potentially why you can do the tasks pictured in Blöckw@rt's various scenarios there. If you are only working on a Ferrari in a Ferrari shop, you need less variety of tools and likely could fit neatly all in that box without exaggeration. Some of those may be exaggeration though, without context we don't know how many of those may have been specialty/specialists pictured.

 

[Piece-it Pete]

I'd have done the same.

I bet those workmen were cursing when they saw that. Could just imagine them parking up and leaving plenty of space so they could unload, only to find some sod had shoved that in the small gap behind the van.

They could pick it up and move it!! Into traffic lol.

There's a documentary on making the new RR Phantom on youtube, it's a shame so much of it comes from Germany but both countries really do it right, it's worth digging up and watching.

Yorkshire is beautiful, you're lucky. 'Me mum' came from the 'eartlepool 'eadlands and I spent a great deal of time there as a kid, mostly hanging monkeys and drinking pints with Mr A Capp etc

Pete

 

[ttpete]

Well if folks reckon having to use SAE and Metric is the reason, they should try working in the U.K.

I need metric for most modern British vehicles, metric again for European (but a slightly different range of sizes) and metric yet again (with a third range of sizes) for Japanese!

I need SAE (we call it A/F) for British vehicles made up till the late 80/90's, and for U.S. Imports, and for anything aerospace (British or U.S.)!

Any vehicle pre 1955 is Whitworth, and likewise bikes, but they used them much later. Many machine tools are Whitworth too, even late manufactured ones, though I encounter some European stuff with Metric (though that's often S.I. metric that uses yet another range of sizes) and I've even seen a Swedish machine that used bolts with Whitworth threads and metric heads, or was it the other way around?

Any instrument work usually requires B.A. sizes, but you can usually get by with even sizes only, (except S.U. fuel pumps which use a 5 B.A. or some carbs which use 7).

The only sizes I hardly use are SAE/Unified numbered series, which were never adopted here, unless I'm working on aircraft instruments where they are standard!

Then we start on Internal hex for cap screws, then Torx, then all the other shite...

And you reckon YOU need a big toolbox...!

My first real job was in an import car shop, and I had to deal with all of that straight from the beginning. I still have my little SU wrench for jet head adjustment and my old 36-40 hp VW tools. We did a bit of everything including one ring and valve job on a 1937 P-III Rolls V-12. Never again.

 

[spoon671]

I like big toolboxes, but whether they are really necessary !?!

Quoting all of these for the simple sake of driving this point into the heads of my fellow Americans. ;-)

 

[ttpete]

In the UK anyone that works on older cars needs to have both Imperial and metric tools, I have both and I'm just an amateur. As has been said, pros tend to have big toolboxes or lots of smaller ones which lets face it are easier to move about rather than something the size of the average kitchen that weighs a ton or two full up.

Home users tend to have smaller boxes, Snap-on is out of reach of most home users financially and tools are correspondingly more expensive here than in the USA, take the $ price and simply change the sign to £ so $10 becomes £10 which is a fair bit more depending on the exchange rate.

I keep most of the stuff thats in cases on a shelf not in my box and all my DIY type tools are in a bag and several plastic boxes rather than a mechanics type tool-chest. My power tools live in cases in a cupboard. I'd love a bigger tool chest but can't justify it, might have to get a mid chest next as I keep adding tools.

I do Brit bikes as a hobby, and I have an SO 3 drawer riser with nothing but Imperial tools, also a tall Kennedy box and riser full of all of the special tools and pullers for Triumph, BSA, and Norton bikes. That's in addition to my working toolboxes now home from retirement.

 

[spoon671]

You see that shop with the Porsches? You see that shop with the Man trucks? Now see the one with the BMWs? I'm willing to bet that all of these techs that work in each of those shops is an undisputed expert in working on those vehicles.

The problem here in America is that we reward mediocrity. A quick example of this is the professional sports playoff system. Half the teams make it, and often times with losing records. No one cares, they just want to get paid. Pride seems like it's lost...

Here's a real life example: Felix's Repair shop on the corner here has a Ford F350, and a Honda Accord sitting in adjacent bays in the same shop, probably with the same tech working on both of them. How good can this mechanic possibly be at repairing Ford F350's AND Honda Accords? I don't want that guy to even LOOK at my Audi.

The Germans, just as an example, do not settle for mediocrity. They are true experts in their field, be it diesel mechanic or otherwise. Americans, well a lot of them anyway, just work on whatever the hell it is that comes through the door, which forces them to unload cash on so many tools... hardly efficient. I don't mean to offend, and I hope most of you are intelligent enough to get my point.

 

[cheechi]

Here's a real life example: Felix's Repair shop on the corner here has a Ford F350, and a Honda Accord sitting in adjacent bays in the same shop, probably with the same tech working on both of them. How good can this mechanic possibly be at repairing Ford F350's AND Honda Accords? I don't want that guy to even LOOK at my Audi.

I think exceptional techs can come from any country, and it's kind of narrow to suggest they all live in one country or that all people from any given country are all any kind of exceptional, be it good or bad.

But to your point about pride. Let's say both the vehicles need belt replacements, fluids, a clutch, vacuum leak. Some kind of simple repair. Wouldn't you expect a tech who takes pride in his work to say 'yes I can change the accessory belt on this Honda or the serpentine on a Ford'. Even if the steps are different, replacing belts on a vehicle that is otherwise fine is relatively the same task. (go ahead and flame but for the sake of discussion, I know one is more steps but it's still the same skills needed).

It would be nice to say you would take your Audi just to an Audi shop or just to the dealer or whatever. But let's talk about that, around here there are plenty of 'Euro' shops that specialize in all the German brands, and whether they also prefer to work on Jags, Fiat, etc depends on the shop. There's plenty of 'import' shops that really means Japanese and VW. There's many that will do the basics on any model save a few.

Now here's the thing in addition to all that. Do you have a turbo Audi or a pos Audi? If you have a turbo Audi I'd take it to one of the import shops vs one of the euro shops, at least around here.

 

[Wayfastwhitie440]

Could it be consumables are always stored in tool boxes in the USA? Seems like guys have brake cleaner and grease and assorted other stuff.

Yeah I see a lot of people store parts and nuts and bolts. Not me That's what cabinets are for.

 

[vankaye]

Here's a real life example: Felix's Repair shop on the corner here has a Ford F350, and a Honda Accord sitting in adjacent bays in the same shop, probably with the same tech working on both of them. How good can this mechanic possibly be at repairing Ford F350's AND Honda Accords? I don't want that guy to even LOOK at my Audi.

I doubt felix is balancing the Crank in both the honda and the F350... he's probably doing simple maintenance like oil changes and brake work....

Those photos are deceiving. First of all those mechanics get their tools delivered to them by an apprentice, on a tool cart, from a very large tool room. To be fair a photo of the tool room should be included.

 

[GTA Matt]

Since I currently have an f350 and a Camry in my bay right now, the last few comments are funny. The Ford has, well, 6.0 problems, the Toyota needs injectors, a problem that 2 other shops failed to fix. Yes I have factory scan tools for both of these. Audi too, as well as specialty tools for almost all makes and models of cars and light trucks, something that these pictures of guys in dealership candyland have stored in a room. So how big does a box need to be to hold all of this? Well, 14 feet and growing...

 

[d.mcfarland]

I think the same is true for other items as well. Houses, cars, you name it. Americans have an infatuation with bigger is better. Not efficient is better, etc.

 

[RedneckWelder]

Those photos are deceiving. First of all those mechanics get their tools delivered to them by an apprentice, on a tool cart, from a very large tool room. To be fair a photo of the tool room should be included.

Oh snap!

Must be nice to get all the specialty stuff brought to you by an underling and stored in a nice big tool crib when you aren't using it...

 

[greasemonkey44]

For my next act...... I will work out of a handheld box with an adjustable wrench, 2 screw drivers and a hammer
Seriously, covering so many makes and models is a challenge. Much less the different aspects of each. Tpms programming, reflashing, suspension work, engine work, cooling system repair, timing belts. The box is full but the cart does most of the day to day work.
We are moving to a bigger shop and I'll be paring down what I use into the cart.
Here's a peek at the tap and die drawer of my box. Dealership guys don't normally need this sort of hardware.

 

[spoon671]

I think exceptional techs can come from any country, and it's kind of narrow to suggest they all live in one country or that all people from any given country are all any kind of exceptional, be it good or bad.



But to your point about pride. Let's say both the vehicles need belt replacements, fluids, a clutch, vacuum leak. Some kind of simple repair. Wouldn't you expect a tech who takes pride in his work to say 'yes I can change the accessory belt on this Honda or the serpentine on a Ford'. Even if the steps are different, replacing belts on a vehicle that is otherwise fine is relatively the same task. (go ahead and flame but for the sake of discussion, I know one is more steps but it's still the same skills needed).



It would be nice to say you would take your Audi just to an Audi shop or just to the dealer or whatever. But let's talk about that, around here there are plenty of 'Euro' shops that specialize in all the German brands, and whether they also prefer to work on Jags, Fiat, etc depends on the shop. There's plenty of 'import' shops that really means Japanese and VW. There's many that will do the basics on any model save a few.



Now here's the thing in addition to all that. Do you have a turbo Audi or a pos Audi? If you have a turbo Audi I'd take it to one of the import shops vs one of the euro shops, at least around here.

You are completely right on, regards to your first paragraph. I didn't mean to come off with such a narrow point of view, because of course there are expert single make a shops right here in my town.

And I totally get your point about pride. Here's one thing though, here in America most people take their cars to any old place. Sometimes the cheapest place. Ya know? These are the shops I'm talking about. But, of course these types of shops might also exist in other countries, I do not know for sure. But I know that I did not see any in my time spent in Germany.

Let's say I live in Germany and drive a Ford. I'm not going to take it to an Audi shop, know what I mean?

But here in America, I'll just try and find the guy who has the biggest tool box, because well, that means he knows what he's doing, right?

I doubt felix is balancing the Crank in both the honda and the F350... he's probably doing simple maintenance like oil changes and brake work....

We don't know that for sure, either way. Nice tool room pic though! ;-)

Since I currently have an f350 and a Camry in my bay right now, the last few comments are funny. The Ford has, well, 6.0 problems, the Toyota needs injectors, a problem that 2 other shops failed to fix. Yes I have factory scan tools for both of these. Audi too, as well as specialty tools for almost all makes and models of cars and light trucks, something that these pictures of guys in dealership candyland have stored in a room. So how big does a box need to be to hold all of this? Well, 14 feet and growing...

You are the guy I would not take my car to.

I think the same is true for other items as well. Houses, cars, you name it. Americans have an infatuation with bigger is better. Not efficient is better, etc.

Efficiency? What's that?

For my next act...... I will work out of a handheld box with an adjustable wrench, 2 screw drivers and a hammer
Seriously, covering so many makes and models is a challenge.

You're exactly right, and I totally agree. This is more to my point. I don't want my repair to be a challenge for my technician. I want my technician to be an expert, and to know exactly what they are doing with my car.

Again, I can search all day long for the guy with the biggest tool box...what does that really mean for the customer?

 

[RedneckWelder]

GTA Matt, bro, trolls ain't worth getting banned over...

 

[GTA Matt]

Lol, well somebody has to tell him. And thats fine, he's the type of customer that gets fired.

 

[joedodge]

Gou got no fuxkin clue man. We work on several makes models of all years every day. I work on everything from golf carts to school buses to cars and trucks to trailers and tractor trailers. All on a daily basis gas disel and electric. Let's see ya fix all that with a hand carry box efficiently and productively all day. So go **** your self Ya **** go play ****** mechanic somewhere else and leave fixing stuff to the pros. ****** arm chair wonders........

 

[RedneckWelder]

Lol, well somebody has to tell him. And thats fine, he's the type of customer that gets fired.

 

[d.mcfarland]

You're exactly right, and I totally agree. This is more to my point. I don't want my repair to be a challenge for my technician. I want my technician to be an expert, and to know exactly what they are doing with my car.

Again, I can search all day long for the guy with the biggest tool box...what does that really mean for the customer?

It means he has the tools available to repair the random car you bring in.

A challenge would be not having the tool and having to use something else.

What a troll. No idea where spoon thinks he comes from? Brand new and thinks he is the god of viewpoints.

 

[gsingh]

Since I currently have an f350 and a Camry in my bay right now, the last few comments are funny. The Ford has, well, 6.0 problems, the Toyota needs injectors, a problem that 2 other shops failed to fix. Yes I have factory scan tools for both of these. Audi too, as well as specialty tools for almost all makes and models of cars and light trucks, something that these pictures of guys in dealership candyland have stored in a room. So how big does a box need to be to hold all of this? Well, 14 feet and growing...

Can I ask where you bought the Toyota scan tool from? Can you plase put a pic up, if possible?

 

[GTA Matt]

Can I ask where you bought the Toyota scan tool from? Can you plase put a pic up, if possible?

Its a techstream lite. Laptop based, need the mongoose cable and subscription from toyota. Subscription is 1000 a year for unlimited use, reflashes, etc. https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInf...h!-763014416?_pageLabel=ti_ts_lite&_nfpb=true

 

[toolslut6.0]

Lol I'm just a ******* big tool box lover that has to many tools according to some of they guys on this thread, but I'd like to say that if you look back in history America is 2-0. Enough said. Germany or Britain. I know it has nothing to do with tools but I think that there needs to be no stones un turned due to the heated conversation. Also gta Matt I think that you are completely in the right telling d nozzle to f off.

Go america.

 

[PBCampbell]

Good grief boys, grow some skin. I've no idea the reason for that jab at GTA Mike, but it's hardly worth the response. Once you grow up you'll learn to **** it up.
I've no idea how things are in Europe but those showrooms parading as garages I suspect are not the norm. I only have a few overburdened toolboxes (2 41" bottoms and 2 26" bottoms and 1 41" top)and I'm not even a pro mechanic. I suspect that tools are a bit cheaper to purchase is one reason, ego is another reason, and we import EVERYTHING available so a need to fix everything available for the last 25 years is possibly another. I have friends and acquaintances who work in or own independent shops and their rather large boxes are generally stuffed and quite large. I'm always amazed at the amount of special wrenches and such required to deal with literally anything that may roll in and the diagnostic stuff that's required these days is mind boggling. The lack of a drawer or two of special tools means income that can't be earned.
For those that think that auto mechanics should be somehow specialized, find a mechanic you like and buy the models and brands he likes to work on. Manufacturers are continually trying to make their products proprietary as far as maintenance and repairs go and this should be part of any purchase decision.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Lol, well somebody has to tell him. And thats fine, he's the type of customer that gets fired.

 

[Kimarieck]

ILMAO! The need to fix everything available infected me long ago. I recently moved across the country and was panicked because I couldn't get a particular project done for my 89 yr. old mom. My cousin's wife looked at me like I had two heads and said,"hire it done, you idiot!" So,yeah, I've got a big box to hold all the tools I need to fix or build everything myself even though I could (and maybe) should hire it done. And that's the way I like it!

 

[Cosmicowboy]

U.S. and British aircrafts carriers


Compensating for something America?

Yeah, weak allies.



.

 

[redwrench60]

Is this another one of those threads where non mechanics tell mechanics what they should be using?

I'll say it again, most people have no idea exactly what it takes to fix anything that comes in the door. You think you do but you don't.

Oh and those dreamy German shop pictures....gimme a break. That's as real as a Victoria Secret catalog.

 

[BeaverPuncher]

People want what they want. You could purchase a 50 cc quad and putt around and have a fun time . Then you could also purchase a race ready ***** dropper that'll jump skyscrapers and leave ruts that a F-350 could fall into. I want ***** dropper boxes . You can choose whatever you want.

 

[greasemonkey44]

Personally I have seen specialization work backwards before. Dealership technicians who misdiagnosed a low power on start up complaint as the car needed plugs and valve cover gaskets. A Cadillac that needed valve cover gaskets was diagnosed as needing a rear main seal.
My favorite classes to take are the ones that are generic. Car has low power where do you start. Car has intermittent misfire what are possible causes.
In my area a competent mechanic is fairly hard to find; I prefer working on only a few makes and models. However a good customer who needs work on a BMW will not get turned away.
""A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."" Heinlein said it best

Oh and those dreamy German shop pictures....gimme a break. That's as real as a Victoria Secret catalog.

You know it; the BMW and Lexus dealerships in memphis look good. But they are packed, I would hate to pay property taxes on a ******** hanger inside the city.

 

[PBCampbell]

WOW! It seems the touchy-feely Nancy's took this thread over. The original question was a valid one but few have really gave up legitimate reasons as to why we in the U.S. seem to have the need for large tool boxes. It would be nice if more European mechanics chimed in though as I think we may be going off the illusion that they can do all their repairs out of 3 drawers of tools or a carry box. I find this hard to believe and would like to have a better understanding of how Automobile work is performed in Europe.

GeaseMonkey44 nailed it rather well I think.

 

[jb3]

Not sure why an f350 and a toyota next to eachother is offensive, but i find that hilarious. Maybe they will breed? The spawn could look like brundlefly.

The logic that you only go to specialists for your car, well good for you sir. If i dont fix my cars myself, i take them places where i know it will be fixed, not based on what cars might be parked next to eachother. Amazingly, it turns out that most cars share common features! Who knew, i was shocked!

Im going to go out and fix the brakes on my ford, my old benz, and my sisters honda. Conceivably a mechanic could be versed in many models