Why are American's tool boxes so big?

[rancherbill]

OK, American boxes are big, but, what sizes of boxes do Europeans use?

What size would a mechanic use at a dealership?

 

[GTA Matt]

Perhaps I don't understand the SAE vs. metric argument. SAE sockets take up half of my socket drawer and half of my wrench drawer. The rest of the tools I have have absolutely zero to do with fastener size. Hand tools take up the majority of my main box, things like screwdrivers, pliers, hammers, wrenches, sockets, etc., I have a lot of them, and I use all of them. The rest of my box is filled with specialty tools. Some the average DIY'er has never heard of or seen. Those that don't do this job daily have zero clue the amount of tools it takes to perform a lot of work without borrowing tools. Tools ranging from fuel pressure gauge with adapters for nearly every car made to engine specific entire tool kits and engine specific timing kits. Seal pullers and installers, again, many engine specific. Testers, scanners, meters, they all take up space. However, according to previous posts in this thread, I may not be qualified to make these statements since I currently have a mercedes, malibu, liberty, and navigator in my bays right now. And I worked on another one of those dirty disgusting powerstrokes this morning.

Also, some Euro boxes are pretty large, go to "snap on tools garage" on facebook. Vast majority of the boxes posted are from euro techs, some large ones in there.

 

[FreeTenthsDiag]

Perhaps I don't understand the SAE vs. metric argument. SAE sockets take up half of my socket drawer and half of my wrench drawer. The rest of the tools I have have absolutely zero to do with fastener size. Hand tools take up the majority of my main box, things like screwdrivers, pliers, hammers, wrenches, sockets, etc., I have a lot of them, and I use all of them. The rest of my box is filled with specialty tools. Some the average DIY'er has never heard of or seen. Those that don't do this job daily have zero clue the amount of tools it takes to perform a lot of work without borrowing tools. Tools ranging from fuel pressure gauge with adapters for nearly every car made to engine specific entire tool kits and engine specific timing kits. Seal pullers and installers, again, many engine specific. Testers, scanners, meters, they all take up space. However, according to previous posts in this thread, I may not be qualified to make these statements since I currently have a mercedes, malibu, liberty, and navigator in my bays right now. And I worked on another one of those dirty disgusting powerstrokes this morning.

Also, some Euro boxes are pretty large, go to "snap on tools garage" on facebook. Vast majority of the boxes posted are from euro techs, some large ones in there.

I usually find the people who make comments such as the ones you are referring to are the type of people who poo-poo large tool collections while collecting and building gigantic fish tanks for a pet that does absolutely nothing worthwhile.

 

[spoon671]

Tools ranging from fuel pressure gauge with adapters for nearly every car made to engine specific entire tool kits and engine specific timing kits. Seal pullers and installers, again, many engine specific. Testers, scanners, meters, they all take up space.

Good points, and they've been repeated many times over in this thread. There are many many different tools to work on many many different makes and models. Of course that's pretty easy for everyone to understand.

What gets to me is taking a peek into the dealership service area (or equivalent) looking at all those huge $$$$ tool boxes full of huge $$$$ tools...and they are all owned by guys busting their balls to make $18hr? $24hr? $28hr? How much does their service writer charge the customer for labor... $100hr? 120hr? $140hr?

If you own all of that and are in business for yourself, yes I understand that. And that's an awesome thing!

But if the technician is working at a shop that is making money hand over fist while he is forking out $1k or more monthly on engine specific timing belt replacement tool sets...well, who's the real sucker there? How can the tech save for retirement? How can he save for his kids college?

I don't hear anyone talking about how messed up it really is. Or maybe it's really not that big of a deal.

---

Of course, my company bills out more for my work than what I am paid. That's common across every industry. But, I am not forced into a position where I have to spend absurd amounts of my income just to keep up my ability to perform my work.

Also, my company is not based in the USA. Their mentality is much different. Much like European shops, my company furnishes all tools. The tools I keep at work are the tools that I love to use, and that I enjoy using. This is my choice. It is not necessary.

 

[nickjj]

OK, American boxes are big, but, what sizes of boxes do Europeans use?

What size would a mechanic use at a dealership?

In the UK, the same size boxes as the USA, but as with the USA some people make do with a cart, and others have a box the size of a van.

 

[FreeTenthsDiag]

Our tools make us money, period, that's why we buy them. Because if you have the tools to bill 2 hours to 1 worked and then change jobs, you don't have to wonder if the same level of tooling will be provided and when it is time to go out on your own, you already have the tools.

And of course, everyone who isn't a tech or service writer thinks that 90, 100, 120 an hour is just mountains of cash for the shop. Never realizing that hourly rate has to go towards:

- Tech Pay
- Service Writer Pay
- Parts Persons Pay
- Service managers commission.
- Other general hourly employee payrolls.
- Rent.
- Utilities.
- Shop supplies.
- Shop equipment and updates.
- Insurance.
- Taxes.
- Advertisement.
- Bathroom supplies.
- The Wifi customers use.
- The periodicals they read.
- Office supplies.
- Invoicing software.
- Monthly subscription fees for the various software products techs and advisors use.

Cause all those things are cheap or free.

My current shop doesn't even start going into the black until we have made 50,000.00 for the month (I've seen the breakdowns). And since the labor charges generally only cover expenses, that means we need to turn 500 hours for that shop to be in the black, and they take their profit off part upsells. I am perfectly fine with them charging what they do, I like having a job.

 

[spoon671]

Our tools make us money, period, that's why we buy them.

I also agree with all of your points as well. I still feel that the shop should be footing the cost for all of the special tools, and because an American tech is forced to accumulate these tools, his tool box is inherently larger.

And his pocketbook is consequentially lighter as a result. Good for American businessmen though. ;-)

 

[Ruger_556]

I also agree with all of your points as well. I still feel that the shop should be footing the cost for all of the special tools, and because an American tech is forced to accumulate these tools, his tool box is inherently larger.

And his pocketbook is consequentially lighter as a result. Good for American businessmen though. ;-)

Not all shops are like that, I think there is a bit of misconception about pay and how many tools guys really have. Some work out of a roll cart and some have a Mr. Big... How much a guy makes and what he does varies across a huge range too.

The shop I work at buys all the engine specific tools, laptops, diagnostic tools, everything over 1 1/2", all pullers and drivers too. US company run by American businessman. Yeah, you have to buy tools but meh, I like using and owning tools. If I didn't I wouldn't be in this industry. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

 

[GTA Matt]

Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

This. I wouldn't make near the money I do if it weren't for all the tools I have. Yes it costs money to buy them initially, but after the initial investment, they are making me money. Having tools for jobs that nobody else does gives me a monopoly of sorts over other techs. I will get that job (ideally). Yes, most shops, mine included, supply some specialty tools, some shops have a better variety then others, some only supply you with a lift and compressed air.

 

[NC-Shaun]

I'm in the minority of liking a smaller and better organized box. Tried a 44" and just didn't like how much real estate it took up to hold the same tools, so I sold it.

I've packed more (quality) tools into a service cart and 26" Craftsman stacker than previous coworkers had in their 56" boxes. The last two shops I've been in, I got the "When are you going to get a REAL box?" from coworkers.

Yep, same here. I prefer more shallow drawers and a 26 incher than a 44 or 56 with fewer deep drawers. I am a motorcycle tech so this works for me.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

And his pocketbook is consequentially lighter as a result. Good for American businessmen though. ;-)

Sometimes it ain't too good for the businessman...just ask my boss how much it cost him when the last really good mechanic he had before me left. That guy took about 75K in tools with him to the next job (and that's 1995 dollars).
Boss had to buy tons of tools all at once since I was packing pretty light on tools coming out of the military where they provided everything and I couldn't afford much of my own tools on a meager E-4 salary.
Boss spent around 25k in weeks trying to make up just the absolute must-haves for all that the last guy took with him which had been the daily use tools to support the shop.....we got stocked up enough to work and then Boss slacked off buying stuff for the shop as I built up my collection...now, nearly 20 years later, we are to the point that I don't even ask him to buy stuff. I mention that the shop needs it, for whatever reason, and see what he says. Sometimes he says "order it on the company" and I do. But when the subject is hit on a few times without him seeming to have any interest in buying it for the shop, then I buy it for me with some consideration of it's potential use beyond this job. I won't buy it if there's a 99.9% chance I would never use it anywhere else, but do if there is a good chance I would use it - and it will leave with me when I go.

 

[RedneckWelder]

My job, like Ruger's, supplies much of the specialty tooling. However, there is still a huge amount of tooling to buy for my personal tools, and that doesn't even begin to cover the specialty tools I choose to buy so I'm not running to the toolroom and searching for a specialty tool that may not even be there. Kinda hard to do a job when a field tech pulled the only specialty tool and won't be back for a couple of days, ya dig?

One of the things that buying specialty tools enables me to do is also work at home independently. God forbid, should I lose my job, my ever growing collection of tools will enable me to earn some money, plus having a lot of good tools has made ordinary work on my own vehicles go a lot nicer..

And thanks to Garagejournal and the internet, I save a bundle by getting deals I never would have known about.

 

[GMTECH1]

This. I wouldn't make near the money I do if it weren't for all the tools I have. Yes it costs money to buy them initially, but after the initial investment, they are making me money. Having tools for jobs that nobody else does gives me a monopoly of sorts over other techs. I will get that job (ideally). Yes, most shops, mine included, supply some specialty tools, some shops have a better variety then others, some only supply you with a lift and compressed air.

Agree with all of this. Also being able to fix whatever comes in the door has its advantages too.




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[Dust Devil]

Have tools will travel

 

[Dust Devil]

Agree with all of this. Also being able to fix whatever comes in the door has its advantages too.




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At the end of the day that is what it is all about, I have to work on so many different things I have to have a ton of tools to be ready for whatever, that is why I need a huge box to store my tools, I work off of a small cart though.

 

[GTA Matt]

I agree with the small cart. Load up whatever is needed for that job and roll it up to the car. I could afford any cart I want, I chose this little guy. See, it's not all about big things [emoji6]

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Possible thought: Could the decline of apprenticeships affect the lack of shop supplied tools in the US?


Fewer experienced techs coming up through the ranks via apprenticeships, meaning most techs have to learn through experience. Learning the hard way often damages tools, so make the techs buy them?

 

[joecon]

I work with people every day who can't make flat rate because there to cheap
to buy a simple tool to make their life easier .I will lend them a tool so they can
see how easy it can be and you would think they would buy their own but they
just complain how they can't make time they all have small boxes and brag
about how little they spend on tools they just don't get it the tools can make you
money that why you have them.The reason you have the size box you do is based
on the work you do if you have a narrow focus you have a small box if you do it all
you have a larger box.Also it is connected to professionalism.Having the right tool
so you don't have to make do.

 

[spoon671]

Possible thought: Could the decline of apprenticeships affect the lack of shop supplied tools in the US?


Fewer experienced techs coming up through the ranks via apprenticeships, meaning most techs have to learn through experience. Learning the hard way often damages tools, so make the techs buy them?

My good friend in Germany tells me you have choices post high school; university education or apprenticeship. His daughter is apprenticing as a retail sales manager. His son is apprenticing in something technical, I forget. Possibly aviation mechanic. He pushed them both to go to university but they chose otherwise. Anyway it's all free, so there's no excuse not to choose one of them to get your life started.

Apprenticeships are strong there, thus workforces are expectedly highly skilled. You can figure out the rest.

Here in America, you have to in-debt yourself at a technical school, or similar. You can figure out the rest. :/

 

[Denwad]

and everyone pays 50% taxes in germany

 

[ttpete]

and everyone pays 50% taxes in germany

Yup. Nothing's free. You either pay more in taxes or you pay tuition. Only problem is that when you pay taxes you don't have a choice.

 

[RedneckWelder]

Here in America, you have to in-debt yourself at a technical school, or similar. You can figure out the rest. :/

Not necessarily.

There are actually quite a few apprenticeship/technical education programs out there. The biggest obstacles are that knowledge of them is not widespread (the companies and schools don't do a great job of spreading the word) and that it is also not an encouraged path.

nd everyone pays 50% taxes in germany

This. It's paid for one way or another.

 

[crewchief888]

Here in America, you have to in-debt yourself at a technical school, or similar. You can figure out the rest. :/

i have to disagree,
our hiring for mechanics is done by the corp service manager, we have 5 locations, each with it's own service manager.

he told me a couple months ago, he wont even give a 2nd thought to 99.9% of tech school graduates.
the 1st interview was enough for him.
most fail at the basics, attitude being 1st and formost.

i got my mechanic start with ZERO backround or experience pulling wrenches.
my backround was as a machinist & welder.

all my training has been provided and paid for my the dealers i've worked for.

 

[gasman23]

Not speaking for England, but I have lived OCONUS for the last 20 years, and many countries I have lived in do not view mechanics as a skilled profession and they pay poorly.
Mechanics rely on a handful of cheap tools and take a lot longer to perform diagnostics and repairs. While the US has some bad shops for sure, on average the shops in the US are highly skilled and motivated and turn out great work quickly.

I thought this topic was about the difference between European and American toolboxes
The workconditions that you are discribing sounds more like Africa or India
The average hourly rate for a mechanic in my neck of the woods is roughly $100/hour, even more for premium brands like BMW and Mercedes.
Nobody screws withs cheap tools, and personnel is also highly trained, i wouldn't expect anything less for that kind of many if i were the custumor.
Just because the tools aren't stored in a 56" wide, 72" high toolbox, doesn't mean that they are not available in the shop.

Eh ? There are 4x4s and SUVs parked on every street in the UK. As for commercial vehicles per head I would imagine the figure per head is similar.

I agree, just because there are not as much pickup trucks in Europe as in the US doesn't mean that full size vans and other smaller commercial vehicles are also serviced in regular "car" workshops in Europe.

 

[FreeTenthsDiag]

I thought this topic was about the difference between European and American toolboxes
The workconditions that you are discribing sounds more like Africa or India
The average hourly rate for a mechanic in my neck of the woods is roughly $100/hour, even more for premium brands like BMW and Mercedes.
Nobody screws withs cheap tools, and personnel is also highly trained, i wouldn't expect anything less for that kind of many if i were the custumor.
Just because the tools aren't stored in a 56" wide, 72" high toolbox, doesn't mean that they are not available in the shop.


I agree, just because there are not as much pickup trucks in Europe as in the US doesn't mean that full size vans and other smaller commercial vehicles are also serviced in regular "car" workshops in Europe.

/sigh

When will people learn the difference between a mechanic's pay and shop labor charges.

 

[-->]

Don Garlits toured his top fuel dragster and I once saw him rebuild the engine in the dirt in the pits with a Craftsman box he picked up out of the back of his truck.

For many years back when, I did basic mechanical work with tools I could carry. Am I glad I have way too many tools today. Yes.

jack vines

Yeah but thats a dedicated box for that particular engine. I bet there werent that many things that can go wrong with it. I had a small box in the back of my charger and could rebuild most of that thing, minus parts, on the side of the highway. The box shrank with practice....

 

[toolslut6.0]

I don't know why this turned into a our techs are better than your techs argument. This was about tool boxes. If my shop had a giant tool room full of specialty tools and tools that I use on a daily basis but don't have to buy because it's provided, then maybe I could use a 26 inch box and be happy. Well, I work in the world of "you will have to provide the tools to preform the tasks bestowed upon you". That is a lot of tools for most guys unless they work on 1 type of machine like dozers or combine. When you might work on a skid loader for a few hours then switch to a sprayer, then that requires a wide array of tools.

Also, as long as there is a service manual available to the tech, why can't any tech do any job? As long as there is tooling available to complete the task at hand? Either the machine is fixed correctly or its not fixed correctly right?

 

[spoon671]

and everyone pays 50% taxes in germany

Yup. Nothing's free. You either pay more in taxes or you pay tuition. Only problem is that when you pay taxes you don't have a choice.

I calculated 45% taxes paid during my most recent pay period. It's not that far off guys.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

What gets to me is taking a peek into the dealership service area (or equivalent) looking at all those huge $$$$ tool boxes full of huge $$$$ tools...and they are all owned by guys busting their balls to make $18hr? $24hr? $28hr? How much does their service writer charge the customer for labor... $100hr? 120hr? $140hr?

If you own all of that and are in business for yourself, yes I understand that. And that's an awesome thing!

But if the technician is working at a shop that is making money hand over fist while he is forking out $1k or more monthly on engine specific timing belt replacement tool sets...well, who's the real sucker there? How can the tech save for retirement? How can he save for his kids college?

I don't hear anyone talking about how messed up it really is. Or maybe it's really not that big of a deal.

It is really and very messed up here you go:

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/aut...OMOTIVE-TECHNICAINS-DONT-GET-PAID-WELL/t32112

 

[arms1970]

I bought a large box (Snap-On Classic 96 triple-bank) simply because I wanted it. Overkill for a shade tree mechanic...absolutely. Is it full? No quite. It will be if we keep having dealer sponsored buys like SK day, maybe a year or two. You can call it overcompensation, necessity, or whatever you want. For the pro's, it may be required, for others like me it may be a desire to have a US made box filled with US made tools. Why would someone buy a new car with a warranty made in (fill in the blank) when you could buy a 1988 Yugo for a fraction of the price when it still accomplishes the same job? My point is that sometimes, practicality takes a backseat to desire. I would be surprised if anyone on this forum hasn't been guilty of this at one time or another in their life.

****** A. WE are tool nuts. Crack a beer and enjoy the boxes and tools. That's what I say. I have my snap on box at work, and one at home.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

You only live once! My bedroom looks like a repair shop hahaha

 

[mrjaw14]

we have to deal with SAE and MM. we have a large size-range of vehicles, from tiny "smart" cars to large trucks so we have a big size differential. we like our big 3 autos, as well as autos from around the world..requiring more tools and bigger boxes.

 

[GTA Matt]

It is really and very messed up here you go:

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/aut...OMOTIVE-TECHNICAINS-DONT-GET-PAID-WELL/t32112

Jesus tap dancing christ, I only read a few responses, but it made me want to slice my wrists. Just like with anything, you only ever hear the bad. You'll never hear someone who is successful in the industry bellyache like those guys.

 

[crewchief888]

Jesus tap dancing christ, I only read a few responses, but it made me want to slice my wrists. Just like with anything, you only ever hear the bad. You'll never hear someone who is successful in the industry bellyache like those guys.

i'm reasonably successful.

i dont live in a $500K home, or drive a new car every year.

i've been wrenching/welding at const eq dealerships for 30 years.

all my tools are paid for,
(except the $60 i owe SO)
the longest i've been out of work in those 30 years was 6 weeks
i have a roof over my head
my lights and heat are on
theres food ( and beer) in the fridge
all my vehicles are paid for
i dont live beyond my means (anymore)


this life is what you make of it.

 

[GTA Matt]

i'm reasonably successful.

i dont live in a $500K home, or drive a new car every year.

i've been wrenching/welding at const eq dealerships for 30 years.

all my tools are paid for,
(except the $60 i owe SO)
the longest i've been out of work in those 30 years was 6 weeks
i have a roof over my head
my lights and heat are on
theres food ( and beer) in the fridge
all my vehicles are paid for
i dont live beyond my means (anymore)


this life is what you make of it.

Right there with you on all counts, although you got 14 more years in then I do. I don't ever recall seeing you complain one time.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

Jesus tap dancing christ, I only read a few responses, but it made me want to slice my wrists. Just like with anything, you only ever hear the bad. You'll never hear someone who is successful in the industry bellyache like those guys.

Well, I understand you but isnt a corrupt industry though? With flat rate killing it for the customer and the technician, there's almost no way to make good money unless you are being fed good work, in with the in crowd. For me I have no problem with that, because that's life and it conforms to my old shop foreman's 1st law of action: "**** rolls down hill" also we can probably find those guys who ARE fast AND good, turning honest wrenches and doing well, but they are few and far between, in my opinion. That thread was real guys though, working real jobs at all experience levels in all parts of the country, and you have to admit times have changed in this business. It's a calling, like a priest or a soldier, not for everyone...

Read the 8th + 9th posts on that thread, that guy I solidly agree with and he's not complaining.

 

[crewchief888]

Right there with you on all counts, although you got 14 more years in then I do. I don't ever recall seeing you complain one time.

i get just as p*ssed off as anyone else at some of the BS i see.

but thats my problem......
i can either deal with it, or pack my tools and be on my way....

i moved away from this area in '83 and started wrenching in '84.

15 years later and i was back in this area again. i went back to the machine shop i worked at before i left....
it was like stepping back in time.. i could see myself standing at the same bench and milling machine, doing the same die finishing operations.

i chose my line of work to hopefully better myself, and to get out of the dead end job, i had at the time, loading recycled paper into trucks.

i started out doing oil changes and busting tires, worked at 5 dealers over the years, 10 years at 1 dealer, going on 16 at my current job.
i've swept floors, hauled trash, and been the service manager. i've done most of my time as a field service mechanic.
the hourly pay is slightly higher than the average shop monkey, and i have transportation back and forth to work.

 

[gsingh]

Jesus tap dancing christ, I only read a few responses, but it made me want to slice my wrists. Just like with anything, you only ever hear the bad. You'll never hear someone who is successful in the industry bellyache like those guys.

Gotta agree with you on that one. Never hear someone when they turn in 100-120 hours for the pay period.

 

[SantaAna12]

I bet Cato is laughing his *** off over this thread.

 

[devoncoolman]

It is really and very messed up here you go:

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/aut...OMOTIVE-TECHNICAINS-DONT-GET-PAID-WELL/t32112

Wow man. If its that bad just go kill your self. Depressing ****. The majority of these guys bitching are just ****** mechanics that think they deserve $25hr.