Why are American's tool boxes so big?
- Thread starter Cato
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craftsman47
Well-known member
TECHS ALLOW THEMSELVES to be taken advantage of.
Organize. Get a better deal. Or open your own shop and take the business from the dealership. The dealership has to compete, and its FAR cheaper to pay good techs...far cheaper........then lose the business....
paying the tech 1/5 of shop rate is a RIPOFF.
Bruce57
Well-known member
Over the years I picked up a lot of tools because they helped me do my job faster or more efficiently, but they weren't necessarily things I couldn't do without. In my limited experience in foreign work environments the productivity expectations were lower than in the US. Not saying it's that way everywhere, just what I have seen.
BTMSUP
Well-known member
Are you a tech?
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
^ Who cares, I can't wait till this industry organizes.
'The fallout of actually paying mechanics, and actually charging people for car repairs, will be epic.
'The fallout of actually paying mechanics, and actually charging people for car repairs, will be epic.
BTMSUP
Well-known member
It matters because essentially if someone has never been a tech the should not comment about how poorly we are paid and how the dealers make buckets of money. It is blatantly arrogant and ignorant.
If everyone commenting is an employed tech, or has been, I respect your opinion.
But to those who are not it is like me telling all dentists how they should operate their business. Or just because I own a computer I know how IT professionals should do their job and/or get paid.
I agree with Bruce57 and Americans take pride in their profession as automotive and/or diesel technicians. I've been in the business for 30 years now. I am very proud of my occupation and my collection of professional tools. For the last 8 years I have been employed by a major airline working on their ground support equipment. Yes they pay me well for my experience and it's a great career. If you're not happy with your pay rate, keep training, keep building your resume and then move up. It can be done. I know.
rodsnratfinks
Well-known member
Honestly, I kind of thought that I was compensated fairly well for my job when I was working hourly. It's not rocket surgery. It really depends on how you are treated by your employer. I've worked for shops that were nothing but stress, and at shop or two that was relaxed enough to enjoy what I was doing and take pride in it.
BTMSUP
Well-known member
I am also currently at an hourly shop and I feel I am compensated more than fairly. That was the point I was making, there were comments made earlier about dealerships essentially stealing from their techs and customers. I just get worked up by people outside of the industry thinking they are the authority on our livelihood.
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2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I am employed friend. Make a good living at it too. I plan to do this work until I physically cannot anymore.
That being said... seeing numbers sheets at the shops I've been at, tech pay vs. business take home, seeing some flat rate times (although many are totally reasonable), and looking at the prices customers pay, compared to my tool costs this year alone......
Costs need to rise, or gross profit needs to drop. Although I would benefit from this, it's more about making sure the industry as a whole is protected. JMO
redbarron57
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redbarron57
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Its because their co worker has more tools bigger box. Plus we americans will buy what we see the 'pros' using on tv instead of what we can afford. Plus people go from job to job and need different basic tools to work. I keep things I dont use at home. I got a 37 inch 5 drawer that works for the shop. An 18" bag and a small cart for out in the park.
NY_treeguy
Well-known member
I keep everything running t work with 5 drawer 26" craftsman stack. 2 drawers on top, 3 on bottom with flip up. Everything is tight and I don't have everything I wish I had, but I get by. From chainsaws to cars, light and medium trucks, tractors, chippers, bucket trucks.....
It comes down to filling every inch of the box and figuring out what you NEED and eliminating what you would like to have. If an item's use doesn't justify the space, its gotta go.
It comes down to filling every inch of the box and figuring out what you NEED and eliminating what you would like to have. If an item's use doesn't justify the space, its gotta go.
I made a living for 10 years twisting wrenches, and the pay scale has always been wonky. Boss spends 30k on restoring his redneck truck, buys new Harley, always buying truck tools, builds new home, garage full of redneck toys, yet never can afford to make good on the promised pay raise.
I am still in the auto industry, but now I am on the parts supply side of it and I see the techs jump from shop to shop in search of the illusive honest employer to no avail. Its worse now, than when I was in the field. Hence the reason I refuse to twist wrenches for a living anymore, and have had several people offer various positions because they have heard how my work ethic/quality of work was. I would have to get a very large hourly rate, and a guaranteed 40 hours to ever even think of going back to that field. Still then I would probably not.
I am still in the auto industry, but now I am on the parts supply side of it and I see the techs jump from shop to shop in search of the illusive honest employer to no avail. Its worse now, than when I was in the field. Hence the reason I refuse to twist wrenches for a living anymore, and have had several people offer various positions because they have heard how my work ethic/quality of work was. I would have to get a very large hourly rate, and a guaranteed 40 hours to ever even think of going back to that field. Still then I would probably not.
redbarron57
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Try going into the industial side of things, unions and all. You will get your raises.
I could work out of a box half the size but I like to be able to take a quick look and see if I am missing anything before moving on to the next job. That's just me.
BTW I do maintenance so its not like I have a huge box but it is bigger than I honestly need
BTW I do maintenance so its not like I have a huge box but it is bigger than I honestly need
Flivver250
Well-known member
We like to store our condoms in the drawers lengthwise.
In scandinavia the shop provides the tools for the mechanics.. At big places each mechanic has a basic set of tools, and a source in the shop for when they need something additional. Works well.
I work in a 2 car shop, 2 mechanics. We dont have tool carts and definitely no tool boxes. We have homemade carts to put what we grabbed from the wall during the day..
You dont need a toolbox here. Everything is hanging on the walls for you to grab. Works very well. We do both metric and sae cars.
I hope this sheds some lights as to why tool boxes appear smaller here.
Having said that, everything is bigger in USA..
I work in a 2 car shop, 2 mechanics. We dont have tool carts and definitely no tool boxes. We have homemade carts to put what we grabbed from the wall during the day..
You dont need a toolbox here. Everything is hanging on the walls for you to grab. Works very well. We do both metric and sae cars.
I hope this sheds some lights as to why tool boxes appear smaller here.
Having said that, everything is bigger in USA..
Ding ding ding!
If federal minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation here in USA since the '70s, the minimum wage would be over $22/hr. I'm willing to bet half the guys on this forum with Snap-On tool boxes barely make even that.
On a similar note, since the '70s, average take home pay for a CEO is over 230% today over what it was back then.
More relevant to present day, since our economic crash of 2007 the average wage for the bottom 99% has fallen 19% below what it was prior to the recession. Meanwhile, top 1% is enjoying over a 25% increase in average income.
It's sad, it's a culture thing and that's all the better for the shop owners... some folks just don't want to hear it. But spending all that hard earned money just to make yourself more money, makes "the man" more money too...at your expense, not his. I mean, you just spent $1000 on new tools...how many hours will it take for you to make that $1000 back?
Personally I encourage a career change to one where your technical skills are valued, and where you are not required to spend so much of your own money just to keep up. Of course, this bit of encouragement only applies to the guys who are sick and tired of dropping thousands on tools while their family is still struggling hard..this may be a small percentage of techs, but I know you're out there watching.
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BigNuge
Well-known member
How can anyone have this opinion and believe that the cost of EVERYTHING wouldn't increase in proportion?
I am not wealthy, I do not own a business. But I do understand that if the government forces businesses to pay $22/hr as a minimum then your Bigmac meal would cost you $20, your Dunks coffee will be $10. And if $22/hr is a minimum then that $360 inner tie rod job would be $800+ (I use that example because I took my 4Runner in for an oil change and that's what they wanted to do the pass side inner tie rod). We all know mechanics are not going to want to make minimum wage. This example will apply to EVERY aspect of your life, every single thing you pay for...if you can think of it then it will cost exponentially more.
No matter what you think, the socioeconomic scale will always be there. If you don't like the money you're making, if you think you're not being treated/compensated well enough THEN LEAVE! There is ONE REASON that owners get away with paying $hit money....you're accepting $hit money. Don't look to the government to fight your battle, too many people do that already, and that's not what the true America is all about. Nobody is required to work for a certain person/business. If they pay **** then leave. Every person that accepts the pay is contributing to the "issue" you point out, and are the truly responsible party. I say the same thing to my best friend, who works his a$$ off in the landscape construction field. He barely cracks $20/hr, and works harder than anyone I know. He runs crews, is the owners foreman, and does all of the equipment repairs. Whenever he starts bitching about pay I am quick to let him know that he is the reason he makes that $$. He doesn't do anything about it, and doesn't bother trying to get out.
And not for nothing, but I have plenty of friends that make good money as a car mechanic. They have a strong work ethic, good money management skills, and work hard to excel in their work. Sure, they had to run through different shops/owners to finally land at a good one...but that's life.
You're not poor because someone else is wealthy....no matter how you spin it.
Sent from Taptalk
BTMSUP
Well-known member
This [emoji121]
I am very glad that someone gets it. It is usually the people who are unhappy that will try to tear down what others have.
flyingtpot
Well-known member
GTA Matt
Well-known member
Spoon, you're still not getting it. If someone is in debt because of a tool box, the problem isn't the tool companies, the industry they work in or their bosses. It is the individual. They chose to be broke. If they aren't making what they feel they are worth, they are either A: working at the wrong shop and need to speak with their actions by leaving, or B: really aren't as good as they think they are. If they were in some other profession, guess what, they would still be broke. Doesn't matter if it was buying TV's, jewelry, cars, they would still be broke. I just had a lady use 3 credit cards to pay a $300 bill on her S550. I have a 750li in my bay right now that the customer had to wait for their tax check so they could fix it. Do these people need to blame Mercedes and BMW? Blaming a tool company or industry for a tech being poor is like blaming McDonalds for making you fat. I still don't understand why or how the size of someones tool box can possibly affect another individual...
This thread has turned into a very interesting read. Not the bad kinda reading, just insightful.
So I stopped at a local auto shop on my rounds yesterday and sure enough. Sign out front says "Help Wanted" for the 4th time this year. I know that they are needing a service writer and another tech again......They asked if I knew anybody for the position like they always do.
I stop at another shop, and one of their techs has left as well. Its a double edged sword I guess. On one hand, if the shops paid decent wages they would get techs worth that money eventually, and on the other if the techs would demand to be paid good money the oil changers would sink and the techs would rise. The cream would rise to the top, instead of continually introducing more bottom feeders to muck up the pay scale.
Ironic, I ran into the service writer from the above shop at his new parts dept position and he looked so much happier. That makes me happy to see. Their is a sliver of hope.
So I stopped at a local auto shop on my rounds yesterday and sure enough. Sign out front says "Help Wanted" for the 4th time this year. I know that they are needing a service writer and another tech again......They asked if I knew anybody for the position like they always do.
I stop at another shop, and one of their techs has left as well. Its a double edged sword I guess. On one hand, if the shops paid decent wages they would get techs worth that money eventually, and on the other if the techs would demand to be paid good money the oil changers would sink and the techs would rise. The cream would rise to the top, instead of continually introducing more bottom feeders to muck up the pay scale.
Ironic, I ran into the service writer from the above shop at his new parts dept position and he looked so much happier. That makes me happy to see. Their is a sliver of hope.
Its always the "high rollers" that go about things that way (referring to the multiple credit cards to pay a Mercedes tab)
n8n
Well-known member
The flip side is that you have to be prepared to live simply if you have to... and I'm not arguing with you, I've done it. Quit a fairly good paying job a few years ago because I was going nowhere at that company and it was quite honestly an abusive relationship between management and employees. I basically kicked around for almost two years and got a job in the same industry with one of their competitors in a MUCH better work environment for almost the same money (but hourly this time not salary.)
If I hadn't been willing to take the risk of being broke (and it did happen, eventually) I couldn't have made that happen.
Nor should they. It is a specialized skill, one that should require years of training. Most people rely on their skills to keep them safe (brakes, airbags, etc) but complain about the labor costs. Makes me scratch my head. If you can do better yourself, then do it. If not, pay the man for a piece of mind. Stop complaining about it.
To keep it on topic, I have a big toolbox because I wanted it. I may waste space, but it is neatly organized. I could probably fit twice as much in my toolbox if I stacked and racked, but choose not to. I could fill it with Harbor Freight but choose not to.
The tool box police will not come to take you away, so do what makes you happy or effective. If you can get by daily life with $100.00 of Chinese-made tools, then that is good on you. I choose not to follow that path, but do not look down on you for your choice. You should not look down on me for my choice either.
BigNuge
Well-known member
I hope you didn't take that comment as me inferring that techs should be accepting minimum wage...I would never/do not think that at all!
As much as I do on my own (vehicle repairs) I still refer the major stuff to the pros. Although, once my shop is built I'll likely take on much bigger projects that I would have otherwise paid to have done.
You guys are correct for the most part. A very old business principle states that a man determines his own worth, he's worth what he's willing to work for, no more no less. I'm afraid it's not really that simple. In a lot of business the options are controlled by the big guys. No one will want to admit it but your success probably has as much to do with luck as good decisions, being in the right place at the right time and capitalizing on the opportunities you were lucky enough to get.
BigNuge
Well-known member
Agreed. However, you are ALWAYS in control of where you work, how much you work for, how hard you work. This isn't China, none of us are forced to work for any particular person/business/shop. If the "big guys" aren't providing the opportunities you are looking for then move on....and yes, it is that simple. If you try to convince yourself that it isn't, then you've made the decision to limit your choices.
It is, and will always come back to individual responsibility.
Okay. I actually am capable of understanding your points perfectly fine, and I agree with them. Those are not the points I am arguing...all of the points you just made are common knowledge. Let's also agree now that the number of American techs up to their eyeballs in debt due to their irresponsible tool truck purchases is greater than zero. We can agree there, right? (Someone will find a way to argue against that, I'm sure)
The German techs don't seem to be in debt up to their eyeballs due to filling a super/sized tool box full of tools they "need" to get their jobs done faster. (Someone will probably chime in with something we all already ******* know, like "oh geez it's because German techs only work in specialty shops)
I feel that it is a problem deeply rooted in the American culture. I don't see the Europeans getting fat off of McDonalds. Our government FINALLY imposed regulations on McDonald, outlawing their "Super Size". Wonder why.
I also feel that a lot of people here (and all around me at work lol) are only capable of understanding one's own argument, incapable of considering both sides of the coin.
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And fellas, I apologize about sounding like a jack leg sometimes. I guess I just never agreed with how the shops here in America are ran... It's okay to agree to disagree here. I just much prefer the tool-room style the Euro shops are modeled after -- More money in the tech's pocket, less in his toolbox, and a much more comfortable work/life balance. That's how I feel it should be.
Naturally, more will disagree with me than agree, and that's understandable because I am here in America and that is just how it is here.
For the record, I have a crazy fast metabolism and I really miss super-sized fries at McDonalds. I can eat them every day and not get fat. I wish the government would let me make that decision on my own. :/
Naturally, more will disagree with me than agree, and that's understandable because I am here in America and that is just how it is here.
For the record, I have a crazy fast metabolism and I really miss super-sized fries at McDonalds. I can eat them every day and not get fat. I wish the government would let me make that decision on my own. :/
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Dave532
Well-known member
I am assuming you are comfortable with the government regulating our volume of intake.
Again...no one is forcing anyone to eat at McDonald's. No one is forcing anyone to eat a super size meal. And even if they outlaw the 'Super Size' meal, it doesn't prevent someone from ordering 2 'normal' size meals. And please don't start that ******** where the poor are economically 'forced' to eat fast food...we could all eat much better for less or the same money if we spent the time to PREPARE it ourselves.
Logically flawed in concept: The government should never be allowed to limit caloric intake (as crappy as McDonald's is)...everyone's caloric requirement is different...regardless of what the one size fits all/easy route government says.
If you are gaining more weight than you want...exercise more or eat less. If you cannot grasp this simple concept...no amount of regulation will save you.
Logically flawed in execution: Remember Bloomberg's soft drink fiasco a couple year's ago in NY? Imposing restrictions on one retailer vs. another? How do you prevent multiple cups of soda? A 5 year could logically destroy this legislation.
Life is not fair...but the government should not be making it more unfair.
let's start banning banning:
http://www.vox.com/2015/3/19/8258585/los-angeles-fast-food
Again...no one is forcing anyone to eat at McDonald's. No one is forcing anyone to eat a super size meal. And even if they outlaw the 'Super Size' meal, it doesn't prevent someone from ordering 2 'normal' size meals. And please don't start that ******** where the poor are economically 'forced' to eat fast food...we could all eat much better for less or the same money if we spent the time to PREPARE it ourselves.
Logically flawed in concept: The government should never be allowed to limit caloric intake (as crappy as McDonald's is)...everyone's caloric requirement is different...regardless of what the one size fits all/easy route government says.
If you are gaining more weight than you want...exercise more or eat less. If you cannot grasp this simple concept...no amount of regulation will save you.
Logically flawed in execution: Remember Bloomberg's soft drink fiasco a couple year's ago in NY? Imposing restrictions on one retailer vs. another? How do you prevent multiple cups of soda? A 5 year could logically destroy this legislation.
Life is not fair...but the government should not be making it more unfair.
let's start banning banning:
http://www.vox.com/2015/3/19/8258585/los-angeles-fast-food
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Spoon -
I dislike the way many shops are run as well. But unless you have actual data about debt to income of international mechanics, compared to US ones, with controls on relative income levels and specialization of individual techs, no one cares.
It's all just conjecture and opinion.
I dislike the way many shops are run as well. But unless you have actual data about debt to income of international mechanics, compared to US ones, with controls on relative income levels and specialization of individual techs, no one cares.
It's all just conjecture and opinion.
BigNuge
Well-known member
^^This^^ is contradicted by vvThisvv
Agreed, we need NO MORE regulation. People need to stop looking to the government to solve all their problems. The country was founded on the premise that we all are free to do what we want.
Personal responsibility (no matter the subject) is the key to the American way. Make decisions that make you fat, buried in debt, get paid $hit money.....ALL of that is the individuals fault.
And another contradiction.
I stated facts, and then stated that I am against governmental regulations on stupid things like caloric intake.
Just because I state a particular fact doesn't mean I actually agree with the premise. Definitely not contradictions. To be more clear and as an example, I am a gun rights advocate. Not a gun control advocate. At the same time though, I feel that health care and pharmaceutical companies should have more regulations to adhere to. Two different things, they cannot be considered contradictions.
I really wonder about having to continuously spell things out here.. it's almost like playing cards with my brothers' kids.
Just because I state a particular fact doesn't mean I actually agree with the premise. Definitely not contradictions. To be more clear and as an example, I am a gun rights advocate. Not a gun control advocate. At the same time though, I feel that health care and pharmaceutical companies should have more regulations to adhere to. Two different things, they cannot be considered contradictions.
I really wonder about having to continuously spell things out here.. it's almost like playing cards with my brothers' kids.
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BTMSUP
Well-known member
You say it about the same thing. You use caloric intake as the example in both cases. You say that it needs to be regulated and then you say that you should be able to regulate it yourself. It is not the same as your example above. Things need to be spelled out for you over and over. At least have the courtesy to read the stupidity in your previous comments before continuing to spew useless info out into the world wide interwebs.I stated facts, and then stated that I am against governmental regulations on stupid things like caloric intake.
Just because I state a particular fact doesn't mean I actually agree with the premise. Definitely not contradictions. To be more clear and as an example, I am a gun rights advocate. Not a gun control advocate. At the same time though, I feel that health care and pharmaceutical companies should have more regulations to adhere to. Two different things, they cannot be considered contradictions.
I really wonder about having to continuously spell things out here.. it's almost like playing cards with my brothers' kids.