Why are Craftsman tools being crticized so much?

[Dieselbutterfly]

Re: Why are Craftsman tools being crticzed so much?

my first post.

Maybe because they found out that some new craftsman tools were made in "china" and yet has no proof of them getting broken or whatsoever. i mean why complain? It still has a lifetime warranty and sears change the item instantly like any other brands who offers the same.

or maybe its more of a racist issue?

maybe it is an economic issue.maybe they figure if they want chinese with a lifetime warranty why not buy from HF,playing the race card seems silly.i dont know of any American companies that only employ one race,in their workforce

 

[Dieselbutterfly]

Re: Why are Craftsman tools being crticzed so much?

1. Charging the same money for an inferior chineese product as they did for the old US made product.
2. Us made being warrientied for chineese.
3. I have older and newer craftsman products of the same model and the newer ones are **** next to the older stuff. Fit and finish is worse, mechanism is sloppier on the new tool than my older ones that have been used a lot.
4. If I want a cheap chineese ratchet I'll go to harbor freight. Sears can't charge 40-60 for a chineese ratchet and expect people to but it. For thay money I'll buy better products. From SK, armstrong, proto, williams, or wright. They were always better products, but sears was more convienient they've taken that competitive advantage away from themselves.

yes.^

 

[vga]

Kev442, I corrected my post. I have had to replace 2 ratchets at sears from that tool set from the mid 80's.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Over the last few decades I bought Craftsman because it was a Quality American made tool with a full replacement warranty. For some reason I assumed the replacement tool would be the same quality as the tool I originally purchased. From what I see, the new tools dont measure up to the old ones. (Hell the wrenches from HF appear to be better than the new lobster claw wrenches crafstman in selling, and thier new tool boxes are so thin that I can easily bend the top with one finger). Ive read in august sears started requiring a receipt to get a warranty exchange. All of my receipts were tossed out years ago because they were not needed.

So I am more than a little irritated because when my old craftsman tool does break there are going to hand me a substandard tool as a replacement if they will even give me one at all. Ive been buying a bit more Snap-On over the last few years.

Chris

 

[bigbearcraig]

Well posting this question gave me a lot of answers regarding Craftsman. Fortunately my tool collection is pretty complete for my needs, so I really don't need to buy many new tools, and if I do, they won't be imported Craftsman, but one of the other brands that are still made in USA.

 

[NWphotog]

Re: Why are Craftsman tools being crticzed so much?

Because garagejournal has becoming too proud of "Made in USA". Bunch of guys on here that cares so much about "Made in USA" are all show no go!

I'm an American and I support American made product but this forum just throw things out of portion. SERIOUSLY! I thought this is a respectable forum with many wisdom but it turns out to be another some-what kiddie forum.

It's another version, parallel, of Everlast bashing in WeldingWeb

Agree completely on counts. Supporting US first is fine but the level of xenophobia is crazy.

 

[shoturtle]

The funny thing is allot of people that criticized sears for not being made in the USA, goes out buy the super sale stuff at lowes or who every. And some of the lowes stuff cost more.

There are way to may kiddie stuff with made in the USA tools. Sears still has the product line that meets the price point and needs of their target market. And they like lowes and HD and others that are in the same price point. Has about the same level of defects. Allot of the lowes power tools get return at the lowes I uses to go to with issues.

The only complaint I have with the craftsman tools is the RP ratchet, never liked the even when they were v series made in the USA. Too shot, and not comfortable. But they did the job.

Allot think that sears craftsman should be this made in the USA brand, and they should loose their shirts if the try to compete with lowes, hd and hf by getting tools to the same price point. They also do not understand economics. That the made in the USA hand tools are going to get more and more expensive, and they will no long to sell their stuff within a few dollars of their. But most likely 15 dollars more and their market will not accept that.

Just look at the craftsman industrial craze. The craftsman pros made in the usa never sold well at 150 dollars, and even at 100 dollars did not move well. But at 60 dollars they jump on the close out industrial. The craftsman pro/industrial is a better wrench. But not one was willing to pay the 120 dollars more for them over the rp.

Their market is not tool snobs. Their market is the diyer that wants a tool that work at a low price. That is what they offer.

 

[4v shane]

Re: Why are Craftsman tools being crticzed so much?

We lost the home electronics industry, the heavy machine tools industry, the nut and bolt industry, the appliance industry, the furniture industry, and damned near lost the auto industry. We are slowly loosing the tool industry.

There appears to be a natural evolution (Darwin in reverse):
First generation: create a great product, with quality materials.
2nd generation: apply modern principles of management, marketing and manufacturing to turn company into a successful enterprise.
3rd generation: Live off the gravy, lose interest in the customers and purpose for which products were made.
4th generation: Use cheaper materials and manufacturing methods; begin to outsource production; become official sponsor of NFL, Olympics, NASCAR, or other over-hyped environment to win the minds and hearts of consumers.
5th generation: Shut down U.S. factories. Conglomerate with like-minded corporations. Watch stock price soar.
3rd generation: Become a merchandising and marketing company that manages brands instead of products.

Quality suffers, but who will complain? Nobody will keep their jobs long enough to wear out their tools. So long as a Chinese fastener is just a little softer than a Chinese wrench or socket, the tool will survive.

DING DING DING DING ! We have a winner

 

[4v shane]

If you move your production to china over USA your profit margin just soared first of all! I don't care if someone disagrees with me and says the price to freight the tools here makes a difference. I guarantee production of tools has probably quadrupled at the cheaper rate. Greedy company thats what it is! I visited a local sears store Thursday evening and literally every single thing in there is Manufactured in the communist country of China. Why spend 29.99 for something when I can go to harborfreight and get the same item from a different assembly line for $14.99? I would rather spend double on a item I will keep to get a USA made product. F*ck Craftsman! Over the past few years quality has slowly decreased and now it will tank.

 

[Steinmetz]

Re: Why are Craftsman tools being crticzed so much?

We lost the home electronics industry, the heavy machine tools industry, the nut and bolt industry, the appliance industry, the furniture industry, and damned near lost the auto industry. We are slowly loosing the tool industry.

There appears to be a natural evolution (Darwin in reverse):
First generation: create a great product, with quality materials.
2nd generation: apply modern principles of management, marketing and manufacturing to turn company into a successful enterprise.
3rd generation: Live off the gravy, lose interest in the customers and purpose for which products were made.
4th generation: Use cheaper materials and manufacturing methods; begin to outsource production; become official sponsor of NFL, Olympics, NASCAR, or other over-hyped environment to win the minds and hearts of consumers.
5th generation: Shut down U.S. factories. Conglomerate with like-minded corporations. Watch stock price soar.
3rd generation: Become a merchandising and marketing company that manages brands instead of products.

Quality suffers, but who will complain? Nobody will keep their jobs long enough to wear out their tools. So long as a Chinese fastener is just a little softer than a Chinese wrench or socket, the tool will survive.

A distressingly accurate sequence of events. Thank you.

 

[Peoria Man]

Re: Why are Craftsman tools being crticzed so much?

Because garagejournal has becoming too proud of "Made in USA". Bunch of guys on here that cares so much about "Made in USA" are all show no go!

Its more than just that. Way back when the internets were in their infancy, it seemed that on every forum, every email list, every primitive message board, every Yahoo "Club" (LOL whatever happened to those?), etc, that dealt with tools, cars, car repair, etc, there were those who criticized Craftsman at every opportunity. Oh, sure, compared to, say, Snap-On, they were probably right, but no one was paying Snap-On money for Craftsman stuff. And this was in a time when you had to look far and long in a Sears store to find anything Chinese.

I just decided to ignore the issue entirely. All the Craftsman tools I owned had been just fine up to that point. If Craftsman was one of those "brands everyone loves to hate", then so be it. Sort of like Pennzoil.

 

[shoturtle]

+1 craftsman was always being bash on, never consider good enough. But the ones bashing then would still buy them because they cost so much less then the other options.

 

[netcaretaker]

I have been holding back on commenting on the Craftsman bashing but I thought what the hell, everyone else has an opinion -

Many people love the made in the USA but then go shop at Walmart on the forums for paint, or oil, etc. - from "The Walmart Effect" from the web site Economic Policy Institute.

Wal-Mart’s increased trade deficit with China eliminated 133,000 manufacturing jobs, 68% of those jobs lost from Wal-Mart’s imports.
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib235/

And Sears has to compete with the big box stores on price, most people could give two shits about the quality of the tools outside people on forums like this.

And how many times have I heard that Sears *****, blah blah blah, but then everyone ONLY buying tools when they are 70% at searsoutlet and wondering WHY oh WHY things are so bad for Sears. And when they are out of busness like it looks like they will be sometime in the future, everyone will "remember the days when there was a Sears and you could just run down and buy tools?"

Any how many times do we all feel good about buying used stuff that is just as good as new, we are not helping employ anyone doing that, if like me the stuff is older and some companies are not even in business anymore.

Please, drive your Kia down to Walmart and buy that china made ****, but oh my GOD they put the USA back on Snap-On ratchets, the world is as it should be. Not everyone is like this on the forums, but I also do not believe that everyone drives American, and buys American all the time, otherwise Kia/Hyundai would not have around 9% of the car market in the US.

Sears works fine an looks good right next to my Snap-on, Mac, Matco, Proto, etc tools, even some Kobalt in my used Snap-On tool box.

I honestly can not WAIT until some major stuff from Snap-On goes China made and see how people freak out about that here. And I would be big money that the prices remain in the nose bleed area.

My 2 cents, from a ex-manufacturing engineer that made stuff for a living until they closed the plant down.

 

[CWP1616L]

I honestly can not WAIT until some major stuff from Snap-On goes China

I would stop buying Snap-on cold turkey if they did that.

 

[BMcC]

I wanted some new screwdrivers, (to replace some slotted USA made Stanleys on which the tips broke and twisted, softer steel maybe). So I went down to a local KMart which is closing up, and thought I'd see what Craftsman stuff they had left.

I wound up buying an 8 piece Phillips/slotted set for $9 and a 1/2" ratchet set for $29. Both sets were USA made. I didn't need a new ratchet, but I had my 8 year old son with me. I bought the ratchet for him, (not that he has any need for one right now), and told him that if he took care of it, it would last him a long time. One day he'll have the benefit of knowing it was made in the USA. It totally made his day.

And I think that's the crux of it. For DIY guys, most tools, Craftsman included, will last a very long time if you don't abuse them and if you take care of them.

 

[BMcC]

I also got to thinking about how my son might want to have some screwdrivers in his newly forming tool set, so we then went to Ace Hardware which is also selling Craftsman now.

I picked up the same screwdriver set as what had been at KMart. My son saw that and said "you just bought those same screwdrivers" to which I said, "I know, these are yours."

That kid's Christmas is coming early...

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

in the late 70s and 80s , when I bought sears stuff to start out ///they broke a lot

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

I would stop buying Snap-on cold turkey if they did that.

that would be BLUE POINT

 

[pfarber]

None of the 'old craftsman lovers' will admit that they are just as cheap as the rest of us who have a mix of CM, HF, Kolbalt etc (ie whatever is a good price).

If they want high quality tools they are out there. They cost 2-5x of what you could ever buy them from SEARS, but they are out there. But like me they are cheap and they don' want to pay anything but the lowest possible price unless they have to.

Also, why are you complaining about tools that were most likely bought at a MALL?!?!

If you want a high quality drill press.. why are you walking through the food court, through the ladies shoes, to a corner of a store called 'tools'? Oh, wait, I know... YOU'RE CHEAP LIKE THE REST OF US.

In order to bring back tool production we need steel mills to make billets, then forges to form the tools, then platers to put that shiney chrome on it.

To bad the EPA has chased those industries out of the USA, never to return. Do you want pretty blues skies, green grass and clear water or 'Made in USA' tools?

 

[otis66]

I do not criticize Craftsman tools. I will not buy any Craftsman tools not made/stamped USA. I now buy SK Wright Snap On. If I do have to buy tools made in China It will not be Craftsman. There are other stores were I can buy tools from, and they are a lot closer than Sears. The only reason I ever bought Craftsman tools in the first place was because Craftsman tools were made in the USA and Craftsman had the forever warranty. Sears has ruined the Craftsman brand.

 

[monster1]

I do not criticize Craftsman tools. I will not buy any Craftsman tools not made/stamped USA. I now buy SK Wright Snap On. If I do have to buy tools made in China It will not be Craftsman. There are other stores were I can buy tools from, and they are a lot closer than Sears. The only reason I ever bought Craftsman tools in the first place was because Craftsman tools were made in the USA and Craftsman had the forever warranty. Sears has ruined the Craftsman brand.

Me neither. I don't criticize cm tools. They are USA made and a good value for what you pay. These new Sears tools are not craftsman. They are cheap Chinese clones bearing the name of a brand of tools that used to be....... well you know.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I have been holding back on commenting on the Craftsman bashing but I thought what the hell, everyone else has an opinion -

Many people love the made in the USA but then go shop at Walmart on the forums for paint, or oil, etc. - from "The Walmart Effect" from the web site Economic Policy Institute.

Wal-Mart’s increased trade deficit with China eliminated 133,000 manufacturing jobs, 68% of those jobs lost from Wal-Mart’s imports.
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib235/

And Sears has to compete with the big box stores on price, most people could give two shits about the quality of the tools outside people on forums like this.

And how many times have I heard that Sears *****, blah blah blah, but then everyone ONLY buying tools when they are 70% at searsoutlet and wondering WHY oh WHY things are so bad for Sears. And when they are out of busness like it looks like they will be sometime in the future, everyone will "remember the days when there was a Sears and you could just run down and buy tools?"

Any how many times do we all feel good about buying used stuff that is just as good as new, we are not helping employ anyone doing that, if like me the stuff is older and some companies are not even in business anymore.

Please, drive your Kia down to Walmart and buy that china made ****, but oh my GOD they put the USA back on Snap-On ratchets, the world is as it should be. Not everyone is like this on the forums, but I also do not believe that everyone drives American, and buys American all the time, otherwise Kia/Hyundai would not have around 9% of the car market in the US.

Sears works fine an looks good right next to my Snap-on, Mac, Matco, Proto, etc tools, even some Kobalt in my used Snap-On tool box.

I honestly can not WAIT until some major stuff from Snap-On goes China made and see how people freak out about that here. And I would be big money that the prices remain in the nose bleed area.

My 2 cents, from a ex-manufacturing engineer that made stuff for a living until they closed the plant down.

This is an excellent observation. Some people can't even justify a 25% price difference between USA and foreign products. They don't and will never understand that until they are personally affected.

 

[sberry]

Sears cant really be beat much in terms of cost anymore, the biggest thing that gets their hand tool line is a junk ratchet. As a marketing scheme I think they really screwed up, they should have went up to middle ground instead of competing on the lowest price.

 

[Hephaestus29]

I was in sears tool store looking for something for my nephew & was looking at some of the new wrenches that are dark in color, not chrome anyway and the wall thickness on the boxed end seemed to vary & I even saw what looked to be a possible crack in one. They just looked to be poor quality and looked as if they may have been cast instead of forged.
Needless to say I didn't buy those.

 

[thesilverone]

^cause they're chinese

 

[Seanbev24]

I never liked Craftsman tools, but that's beside the point. Go into Sears and look at the now Chinese made raised panel wrenches with the giant lobster claws for open ends. If you think they're anything but complete pieces of ****, you're simply delusional.

 

[matt1977]

from my point of view it just looks like their trying to maximize short term profits because they know they will most likely be out of buisiness within a year or two. Here in canada it looks like nordstrom is already scouting out sears locations much like target has done with zellers.

 

[Redmanf1]

I have craftsman, snap on, mac and matco tools. I have a craftsman upper and lower tool box that was bought as a gift from my father in the late 70’s. It still in good condition but I have outgrown it tremendously but I just cannot bare to get rid of it so it is used as storage. I have a snap on taco box with a snap on small box on top of it. My main tool box is my snap on 57 Belair that I like very well and my favorite. Most of my sockets and hand wrenches are craftsman and have treated me very good. I do know that craftsman makes three different quality ratchets. I do have some snap on ratchets and like them better especially the locking flex head. I also use the better quality air tools a mix of snap on, mac, matco and IR. I do not care much for the craftsman air tools. I think each has its own use.

 

[lithdoc]

My answer is that Craftsman tools had little going for themselves even before, as their main draw was the Made in USA tools at affordable prices. Not that it is gone, Craftsman had little to offer that would have me chose them over Husky/Cobalt/Stanley or even HF brands.

 

[BMcC]

from my point of view it just looks like their trying to maximize short term profits because they know they will most likely be out of buisiness within a year or two. Here in canada it looks like nordstrom is already scouting out sears locations much like target has done with zellers.

You might be right. KMart bought out Sears and now both branches of the store have locations that are closing all over the country. They just didn't/aren't competing with Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or Lowes.

And it happens. Years back, I worked for Hugh M. Woods (Payless Cashways in other parts of the country) and it was a great hardware and lumber store, but we couldn't compete when Home Depot came into the area. I can't fault Home Depot for winning the area business, we just didn't adapt to the box store concept.

I see the same thing with Sears. The closest sears store to me is almost 20 miles away, but there are two Lowes stores, three Home Depots, and probably two (or more) Wal-Marts that are closer. When your average Joes need a hammer or wrench, they probably aren't going to make special trip past the other stores just to get a Craftsman tool from Sears, or KMart.

That's why Craftsman is failing as a brand. Its not convenient anymore to buy them.

I think that if Craftsman as a brand has any hope at all, it probably lies with the Ace Hardware locations. If Sears folds, maybe Ace can buy out the Craftsman name and start producing quality Craftsman products back in the States and make it a competitive brand again.

 

[matt1977]

You might be right. KMart bought out Sears and now both branches of the store have locations that are closing all over the country. They just didn't/aren't competing with Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or Lowes.

And it happens. Years back, I worked for Hugh M. Woods (Payless Cashways in other parts of the country) and it was a great hardware and lumber store, but we couldn't compete when Home Depot came into the area. I can't fault Home Depot for winning the area business, we just didn't adapt to the box store concept.

I see the same thing with Sears. The closest sears store to me is almost 20 miles away, but there are two Lowes stores, three Home Depots, and probably two (or more) Wal-Marts that are closer. When your average Joes need a hammer or wrench, they probably aren't going to make special trip past the other stores just to get a Craftsman tool from Sears, or KMart.

That's why Craftsman is failing as a brand. Its not convenient anymore to buy them.

I think that if Craftsman as a brand has any hope at all, it probably lies with the Ace Hardware locations. If Sears folds, maybe Ace can buy out the Craftsman name and start producing quality Craftsman products back in the States and make it a competitive brand again.

I wonder if after sears is gone, they would ever break off into their own company to be like Armstrong or SK. imo there is a spot in the market for affordable american made tools and no one really filling it.

 

[Kev442]

You might be right. KMart bought out Sears

Kmart went bankrupt. A hedge fund manager very much like Bain Capitol bought the assets and called it Kmart Holdings. When they bought Sears, it was renamed Sears Holdings.

I'm getting pretty tired of hearing how Kmart "bought" Sears and screwed them up. Kmart and Sears were bought by your typical "maximize short term profits and bleed them dry" hucksters that have been destroying America for decades.

If people would start thinking of both Kmart and Sears as being destroyed the way Cooper and other giant conglomerates destroyed the small tool manufacturers like Bonney, they would be much closer to the truth.

Here is the guy who made 1 billion dollars in one year pulling off the destruction of Kmart and Sears: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lampert

 

[dsmnickk90]

I wonder if after sears is gone, they would ever break off into their own company to be like Armstrong or SK. imo there is a spot in the market for affordable american made tools and no one really filling it.

Armstrong and SK could fill that spot if the could find a store to carry them.

 

[lithdoc]

I wonder if after sears is gone, they would ever break off into their own company to be like Armstrong or SK. imo there is a spot in the market for affordable american made tools and no one really filling it.

No doubt Craftsman brand is worth a lot of money, I'd imagine in hundreds of millions if not more. However, I think once Sears is gone, it will be bought up by some investment bank and become simply a marketing brand (not that it is much different right now)

The sad part is that USA made tools are a niche item, and few people care about COO anyway. The few US manufacturers that still exist have little retail availability - HD has Channellock, Klein, and WF made Husky screwdrivers, but that is where it ends. Lowe's is even less than that.

Living here in Detroit, a major metropolitan area, I don't even know where I'd have to go got get a good selection of SK or Armstrong hand tools or Pratt-Read screwdrivers. I don't even have any idea where Western Forge places there products like pliers or adjustable wrenches, other than Sears.

 

[lithdoc]

I see the same thing with Sears. The closest sears store to me is almost 20 miles away, but there are two Lowes stores, three Home Depots, and probably two (or more) Wal-Marts that are closer. When your average Joes need a hammer or wrench, they probably aren't going to make special trip past the other stores just to get a Craftsman tool from Sears, or KMart..

One of major reasons for failure for sears is their lack of investment. To begin with, a very large number of their stores are in poor neighborhoods that are some 40 years past their prosperous prime.. Secondly, they're in terrible shape - just look at how yellowed their cash registers look, hanging ceilings have tiles with stains from leaking roofs, some merchandise having a thick layer of dust too. I read that they spend about $2 per sq. foot on maintenance per year, compared with $8-10/sq. foot at Walmart and Target.

 

[Armed Bear]

Armstrong and SK could fill that spot if the could find a store to carry them.

Exactly, I would definitely spend a lot of money on SK and Armstrong if they were available at a good chain like Ace Hardware....Where I live in Sacramento they literally have a Home Deopt every where, I'm not joking. Husky is pretty crappy and most people are forced to choose either Kobalt or Husky. I would much rather drive to the local hardware and pick up some SK stuff in a heart beat.

besides HD and Lowes, there is Sears which is turning to all china-man tools and then Harbor Freight is also here and they only have chinese tools, or I could either go to the different Auto chains and they only have Chiwanese tools. There is no place to buy SK or Williams here.

 

[Coach James]

Kev, why do you say Bain is like a hedge fund manager? In looking at what Bain Cap has done since its inception, I have seen nothing that resembles a hedge fund.

Regarding Lampert, I can't say if he is good or bad as I have seen nothing to indicate too much either way. Kmart was already dead when he came on the scene and the decline of Sears was already underway though he seems to have done little to revive it.

Coach

 

[shoturtle]

Armstrong and SK could fill that spot if the could find a store to carry them.

Not with their prices on tools. In the real world market that sears compete in. The Armstrong and SK are way to expensive.

 

[BMcC]

Here is the guy who made 1 billion dollars in one year pulling off the destruction of Kmart and Sears: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lampert

Okay, so the guy that bought Kmart when it was doing poorly, then bought Sears when it was doing poorly, and thought he'd run it better and its been an epic failure and they're still closing. Where does he make money in that?

It just shows that while some people might be brilliant at picking stocks in companies, but don't know squat about actually running them.

 

[CWP1616L]

In a perfect world, Sears would have nothing but high quality tools and everybody walking through the door would have lots of money and wouldn't mind paying the higher prices. In reality, the customers walking through the door are a bunch cheap bastards that wouldn't know what quality is if it reached out and slapped them in the face.